Question on how to go about making my school list

[ChrisMack390]

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My uGPA is pretty low. Per an AMCAS calculator posted on SDN, my AMCAS GPAs will be 3.44 cum and 3.22 science. I have a couple of really stupid Cs and a W.

I have an upward trend. My last 32 credits are all As and my 3.0s freshman and sophomore year turned into 3.7 and 4.0 junior and senior year. I went to a 5 year school so my credits are all wacky, but I think AAMC is going to chop me up into something like 3.1/3.0/3.8/3.8. My streak of As does include 2 upper level biology courses, my senior research capstone, and Physics 2.

I'm working on a Master's degree and currently have a 3.9x GPA (all sciences courses; so far I have all As and 1 A-). It is a Master's in Biology and I have taken difficult and medically relevant biology courses - Biology of Cancer, Stem Cell Biology, Neuroanatomy, Genetics of Human Disease, Biostatistics, Neurobiology of Psychiatric Diseases, etc.

I did pretty well on the MCAT - 518 total; (129 c/p; 128 CARS; 131 bio; 130 psych); 97th percentile. Depending who you ask this is somewhere around 36 or 37.

I think my ECs are pretty good (~300 hours volunteering; ~100 hours shadowing; 1000's of hours of research; 1 publication and 1 conference presentation; 3 years full time employment in clinical research with significant exposure to cancer patients; 1000s of hours dedicated to touring as a musician and related pursuits including composing and producing an album of original music; 1 leadership role as VP of an organization).

So my question is - how do I hunt for schools that will be likely to look beyond my under-performance in college and focus on what I have done since. I plan to buy the MSAR soon, but am not sure how to use it. My MCAT is high enough for nearly anywhere except some extremes, but my GPA is lower than just about everywhere too. Am I only competitive at the few places where the 10th percentile is less than 3.4, or do the other parts of my app let me stretch that a little?

I would think the high MCAT, the graduate degree, and the upward trend would help at some schools. Any tips on finding them? Those charts say a white applicant has a 75 percent chance with my stats. How do I become one of that 75%?

Thanks everyone! Tagging @gonnif, our non-trad expert 🙂

Also @Goro because I have repeatedly heard you talk about late bloomers, redemption, etc.

 

[ChrisMack390]

Thanks @gonnif! I don't really want someone to just write up a long list for me (of course specific recommendations are welcome), I was more looking for guidance on how to look at the MSAR and such, as you provided.

 

[Goro]

Chris, I think you're golden. Aim high.
Start your list with Columbia, Dartmouth, Duke, Vandy, and Case.

You heard me right.

PM me for a fuller list. Don't forget your state schools!

My uGPA is pretty low. Per an AMCAS calculator posted on SDN, my AMCAS GPAs will be 3.44 cum and 3.22 science. I have a couple of really stupid Cs and a W.

I have an upward trend. My last 32 credits are all As and my 3.0s freshman and sophomore year turned into 3.7 and 4.0 junior and senior year. I went to a 5 year school so my credits are all wacky, but I think AAMC is going to chop me up into something like 3.1/3.0/3.8/3.8. My streak of As does include 2 upper level biology courses, my senior research capstone, and Physics 2.

I'm working on a Master's degree and currently have a 3.9x GPA (all sciences courses; so far I have all As and 1 A-). It is a Master's in Biology and I have taken difficult and medically relevant biology courses - Biology of Cancer, Stem Cell Biology, Neuroanatomy, Genetics of Human Disease, Biostatistics, Neurobiology of Psychiatric Diseases, etc.

I did pretty well on the MCAT - 518 total; (129 c/p; 128 CARS; 131 bio; 130 psych); 97th percentile. Depending who you ask this is somewhere around 36 or 37.

I think my ECs are pretty good (~300 hours volunteering; ~100 hours shadowing; 1000's of hours of research; 1 publication and 1 conference presentation; 3 years full time employment in clinical research with significant exposure to cancer patients; 1000s of hours dedicated to touring as a musician and related pursuits including composing and producing an album of original music; 1 leadership role as VP of an organization).

So my question is - how do I hunt for schools that will be likely to look beyond my under-performance in college and focus on what I have done since. I plan to buy the MSAR soon, but am not sure how to use it. My MCAT is high enough for nearly anywhere except some extremes, but my GPA is lower than just about everywhere too. Am I only competitive at the few places where the 10th percentile is less than 3.4, or do the other parts of my app let me stretch that a little?

I would think the high MCAT, the graduate degree, and the upward trend would help at some schools. Any tips on finding them? Those charts say a white applicant has a 74 percent chance with my stats. How do I become one of that 75%?

Thanks everyone! Tagging @gonnif, our non-trad expert 🙂

Also @Goro because I have repeatedly heard you talk about late bloomers, redemption, etc.

 

[ChrisMack390]

...

Did I just get the seal of approval from Goro?

My cheeks have never been so red.

 

[Lawpy]

Chris, I think you're golden. Aim high.
Start your list with Columbia, Dartmouth, Duke, Vandy, and Case.

You heard me right.

PM me for a fuller list. Don't forget your state schools!

Not to discourage the OP or anything, but you really think so despite the overall undergrad GPA/sGPA being low? Yes the MCAT, ECs and research are great, and OP has a strong upward trend, but it's the overall GPA/sGPA that is holding him back from applying freely and aiming high.

While schools should be looking at GPA trends when assessing nontrads, many do not and stubbornly stick with the overall GPA for some reason. This has happened to many nontrad SDNers here so it's better to proceed with caution

 

[ChrisMack390]

@Lawper I think the challenge for me is that there definitely are schools out there that will immediately look at my undergrad GPA and dismiss my app, but there are also definitely schools that will look at the greater context and things other than what I got in a class in 2009. Figuring out which is which will be the tricky part...

Also I don't think Goro was suggesting that I only apply to those 4 schools and similar ones. All applicants go for a range of schools right?

 

[ChrisMack390]

I am a very happy pre-med the last two days 🙂

I'm going to buy the MSAR this weekend and get to work.

 

[GrapesofRath]

Well the thing is if you apply as if you have a 3.75/36 you are going to be applying to alot of schools where your GPA is below the 10th percentile by a decent amount. Top 20 schools the 10th percentile is usually a 3.6./3.5 There are many medium and lower tier types where the 10th percentile is about a 3.4/3.3.

There was a similar thread brought up this weekend that LizzyM who works at a top 20 school commented on. I'd encourage all to check it out

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/ideal-gpa-in-postbac.1164966/#post-16997684

Some quotes from LizzyM

"The problem you will have is that some top 20 schools use a hard cut off for undergrad GPA (as high as 3.5 based on what I know) with exceptions made in very rare cases (usually super-VIPs and URM). That could hurt you depending on how your post-bac grades get counted."

"If total GPA is < 3.5 you might be better off applying to schools where 10th percentile is < your GPA.
Your MCAT of 40 is not too shabby but you need at least a 3.4 total GPA to really have a prayer in the top 20 and at some of those it will be a crap shoot".

Keep in mind this was advice for someone who had an MCAT 4 points higher than the OP to still be somewhat cautious about top 20 admission.

Just food for thought I thought I'd add as a different perspective. Note this doesn't really address the OP's question however; to that it does certainly seem like you have a very strong chance of admission into an MD school. I had a roommate who went through this process last year with somewhat similar stats and certainly had an interesting cycle and got a lot of good input from actual ADCOMs throughout the year of applying which is kind of what piqued my interest.

 

[ChrisMack390]

Frankly I don't care if I go to a top-20 school. Before I got my MCAT score I had already assumed I would be applying to mostly new MD schools and top DO schools with a couple of what would be considered mid-level as my reaches. My MCAT came in much higher than expected, so I'm trying to figure out how much that changes things for me.

Are there schools at which the 10th percentile would include me? (I don't have the MSAR yet but will soon).

One other question - am I "safe" to drop the DO applications altogether? I would be happy to attend a DO school if that's my option, but I don't think I am delusional in having some degree of confidence that I can get into one of the NJ MD schools or better. I would prefer the MD because of my interest/background in clinical research.

 

[GrapesofRath]

A lot of lower tier schools have 10th percentile GPA's around 3.4. Some a little lower. Your sGPA might fall a little below but obviously your MCAT is well above their median. The thing of course to watch is some lower tier schools might look at a 36 MCAT as low yield.

For top 20 schools, the 10th percentile GPA is around 3.6/3.5. For medium tiers, its around a 3.4-3.5(varies).

 

[ChrisMack390]

A lot of lower tier schools have 10th percentile GPA's around 3.4. Some a little lower. Your sGPA might fall a little below but obviously your MCAT is well above their median. The thing of course to watch is some lower tier schools might look at a 36 MCAT as low yield.

For top 20 schools, the 10th percentile GPA is around 3.6/3.5. For medium tiers, its around a 3.4-3.5(varies).

Well that is obnoxious. I get it and all but come on just let me in!

 

[ChrisMack390]

@gonnif do I mention my bad grades in my PS at all? Or wait for secondary essays?

 

[Goro]

No explanations except when asked at interviews! the PS is for "Who am I"? and "Why Medicine?"

Explanations in essays always come off as excuses, and/or highlight poor judgment..

@gonnif do I mention my bad grades in my PS at all? Or wait for secondary essays?

 

[ChrisMack390]

Thanks to you both!

Looking at the MSAR it seems there are a number of schools where my GPA is below 10th percentile and my MCAT is above 90th percentile. Hopefully they have a mechanism for averaging them or otherwise keeping my application around for human eyes.

 

[ChrisMack390]

I would mildly disagree with my esteemed colleague from west of St. Louis, @Goro . In some cases, as with the current OP, noting a growth in maturity, discipline, etc, would be very applicable as to "who am I" and would exemplified by the change in grades, thus killing two birds with one stone. Also, for a very drastic grade deviation for nontrads, beyond simple/typical trends, risks outright rejection. Thus balance that with at least a passing reference and an inferred mitigation can be useful to give adcom reason to examined applicant further. Perhaps this is less important as more schools send secondaries to all applicants (I still think in "old" school terms where secondaries are sent only after screening)

My interest in medicine was sparked when I got a research job after college at a cancer institute after college which led to my first exposure to sick patients. I can probably discuss this inspiration and how I became more serious in light of it without directly mentioning my college grades or anything expressly negative.

 

[ImmunoLove]

@ChrisMack390 , please feel free to share any knowledge you come across (fellow nontrad with stats similar to yours, albeit more skewed on both ends...). And, Good Luck!