Question to those with significant others: prenump?

[xpinchx]

I couldn't possibly think of any way to ask an SO (especially a long-term one) for a prenuptial agreement before getting married. I really don't think I would ever get one, but for those who do: have you ever thought about getting one? How would you go about explaining why you want one to your SO?

Again, this is just curiosity/hypothetical.

edit: Yeah, I made a typo in the thread title.

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[evade]

Nothing says "I don't really trust you" like a prenup.

 

[astrife]

Nothing says "I don't really trust you" like a prenup.

Despite the truth of this statement, anyone with a sizeable income and assets (as us future doctors will hopefully be) would be a fool not to get one.

 

[Steiner]

Be careful. The misconception about pre-nups is that they'll always protect your future income. A lot of states have laws about property and assets gained as a married couple vs. single people. Pre-nups often only protect the assets you gained prior to marriage and nothing after. Make sure it's handled the right way to protect your future income, and not just what you've built up so far.

 

[Law2Doc]

Nothing says "I don't really trust you" like a prenup.

This can be spun in the reverse as well though -- nothing says "I love you for you and not your future doctor's salary" like signing a prenup. The truth of the matter is, about half of all marriages in the US end in divorce, and high stress careers where you don't have enough time to spend with your spouse are often recipes for failure. Some states will entitle spouses who supported you (either financially or emotionally) during med school and training to half the value of one's MD degree without a prenup specifically indicating otherwise. So prenups are part of the landscape for many people going into high yield professions. It is important to folks who are realists and not romantics. Everyone's situation is different, and only you know whether it makes sense or not.

 

[zek]

I think any couple getting married should consider having a prenup whether they have, or will have, a lot of money or not. I can understand how it could be uncomfortable to bring up. However, if someone's relationship isn't stable enough to have a mature conversation then they probably shouldn't be getting married in the first place.

 

[braluk]

what if i married a goat? Should i go for a pre nup also? Id appreciate any input. Thank you

 

[koennen]

what if i married a goat? Should i go for a pre nup also? Id appreciate any input. Thank you

I'm not sure about goats, but I know if you marry a sheep it's a baaaaaa-d idea not to have one.

 

[Haemulon]

I don't think a pre-nup should really have to be considered unless thee is a big difference in yours and her accumulated assets prior to the marraige. Otherwise, you really have nothing significant to protect right?

 

[koennen]

I don't think a pre-nup should really have to be considered unless thee is a big difference in yours and her accumulated assets prior to the marraige. Otherwise, you really have nothing significant to protect right?

No, you have it backwards. What each party brings to the marriage belongs to him/her and is not considered a marital asset subject to equitable distribution when the marriage is dissolved. It's the asssets accumulated during the marriage that are fair game. So, the dutiful spouse who works and supports their significant other during med school and/or residency or who stays home to raise the kids while the doc spouse is out making the bucks may be entitled to a significant chunk of money.

 

[pathognomonic]

So, the dutiful spouse who works and supports their significant other during med school and/or residency or who stays home to raise the kids while the doc spouse is out making the bucks may be entitled to a significant chunk of money.

As it should be. That spouse made as many sacrifices as the doctor did in order to get him/her through school/residency.

 

[psipsina]

My husband has been with me and most of the time supporting me (emotionally and financially) since I was applying to colleges to be a premed so I could one day go to medschool. He has worked a series of jobs that he really isn't happy at to further our dream of me being a doctor and him being a stay at home dad. If for some reason something goes wrong and we get divorced after I've started to make bank, I feel like he really is entitled to be supported, since without his support it is doubtful that I would have made it here in the first place . . and he did things to be able to support me that he wouldn't have done if he wasn't trying to put his wife thru college/medschool. However we're talking about 6 years of marriage before I even got to the medschool stage, if it was a marriage that began in medschool or later and in which financial support hadn't come from the other party, then I would think about a prenup. Also if he did something unspeakable to cause the breakup I would fight the idea of supporting him.

 

[koennen]

As it should be. That spouse made as many sacrifices as the doctor did in order to get him/her through school/residency.

Agree 100%. Didn't mean to imply otherwise.

 

[koennen]

If for some reason something goes wrong and we get divorced after I've started to make bank, I feel like he really is entitled to be supported, since without his support it is doubtful that I would have made it here in the first place . . and he did things to be able to support me that he wouldn't have done if he wasn't trying to put his wife thru college/medschool.

Be careful what you write. Your husband's attorney may be reading this back to you in a deposition 15 years from now.

 

[Doctor~Detroit]

I couldn't possibly think of any way to ask an SO (especially a long-term one) for a prenuptial agreement before getting married. I really don't think I would ever get one, but for those who do: have you ever thought about getting one? How would you go about explaining why you want one to your SO?

Again, this is just curiosity/hypothetical.

edit: Yeah, I made a typo in the thread title.

i don't think it will have any bearing on med school admissions. for one thing, you aren't obligated to provide such information on the amcas. and i don't think it's the sort of question that would come up in an interview.

any other pre-med questions?

 

[koennen]

i don't think it will have any bearing on med school admissions. for one thing, you aren't obligated to provide such information on the amcas. and i don't think it's the sort of question that would come up in an interview.

any other pre-med questions?

Yes. Good point. Thanks for taking the time to post that insightful comment. After all, anyone who spends any time at all on SDN will see that all threads do directly relate to medical school admissions. Any discussion not related to AMCAS or the admissions process should be banned as irrelevant and immaterial.

 

[Doctor~Detroit]

Yes. Good point. Thanks for taking the time to post that insightful comment. After all, anyone who spends any time at all on SDN will see that all threads do directly relate medical school admissions. Any discussion not related to AMCAS or the admissions process should be banned as irrelevant and immaterial.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=29

http://drslounge.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=111

i'm sorry you embarrassed yourself like this.

 

[koennen]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=29

http://drslounge.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=111

i'm sorry you embarrassed yourself like this.

LOL. Apparently your ability to detect sarcasm is not well-developed. Your original post implies that unless a topic directly relates to the admissions process (isn't required on AMCAS or won't be asked in an interview ... isn't a "premed" question) it doesn't belong on here. If the implication I drew from your original post is incorrect, please educate me as to what the point of that post was.

 

[Doctor~Detroit]

(sigh) the point is that this thread (whose original post deals with marriage and not medical school) is in the "premedical forums: pre-allopathic" subforum of sdn, rather than, say, the "general discusison forums: spouses and partners" subforum or drslounge.com.

so the point is *not* that these threads don't belong on sdn at all, as you incorrectly impute to my post. has nothing to do with whether your sarcasm was detected.

 

[koennen]

(sigh) the point is that this thread (whose original post deals with marriage and not medical school) is in the "premedical forums: pre-allopathic" subforum of sdn, rather than, say, the "general discusison forums: spouses and partners" subforum or drslounge.com.

so the point is *not* that these threads don't belong on sdn at all, as you incorrectly impute to my post. has nothing to do with whether your sarcasm was detected.

Oh, I see. The post wasn't inappropriate for SDN, it was just in the wrong forum. Well, on behalf of the OP, and the rest of us great unwashed, please forgive the trespass. SDN should be thankful that there are folks like you ever vigilant to maintain and protect the purity of the "pre-allopathic" subforum. Keep up the good work!

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

(sigh) the point is that this thread (whose original post deals with marriage and not medical school) is in the "premedical forums: pre-allopathic" subforum of sdn, rather than, say, the "general discusison forums: spouses and partners" subforum or drslounge.com.

so the point is *not* that these threads don't belong on sdn at all, as you incorrectly impute to my post. has nothing to do with whether your sarcasm was detected.

Oh cut him a break. Would you rather be answering a gajillion threads on "Hi I am an August MCATer here are my scores what are my chances?" or "I interviewed at X on Y has anyone heard back yet"? I don't mind an every now and then off topic thread.

Besides you started a thread that really belongs in Site Support or somewhere else, since it has nothing to do with medical school:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=323912

 

[Doctor~Detroit]

Oh cut him a break. Would you rather be answering a gajillion threads on "Hi I am an August MCATer here are my scores what are my chances?" or "I interviewed at X on Y has anyone heard back yet"? I don't mind an every now and then off topic thread.

Besides you started a thread that really belongs in Site Support or somewhere else, since it has nothing to do with medical school:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=323912

hahaha, i've just been foley-ed. touche'.

i think i'm just burnt out on the legitimate forums and their repetitive threads and mis-threads. as soon as i secure matriculation somewhere, i'm retiring to the doctor's lounge.

 

[TakingBakSunday]

Oh, I see. The post wasn't inappropriate for SDN, it was just in the wrong forum. Well, on behalf of the OP, and the rest of us great unwashed, please forgive the trespass. SDN should be thankful that there are folks like you ever vigilant to maintain and protect the purity of the "pre-allopathic" subforum. Keep up the good work!

* munches on popcorn *

this thread needs to last til happy hour

 

[Chuckwalla]

Eh, marriage. I wouldn't get married, ESPECIALLY if you are a guy. Guys get screwed in divorce court.

She may seem great now but people change a lot, especially when they are young.

 

[PEN15]

marriage is over-rated. but if my gf coerced me into marrying her then I would have to find a creative way to tell her that I want a pre-nup.

 

[bubabugster]

You can never really get into another person's head and make the assumption that everything will work out and that if a divorce occurs, everything will proceed in a noble fashion. Protect yourself and get a pre-nup. I'm a female who will be entering med school, but if in the long distant future I do get married, I'm getting a pre-nup. I don't want anybody riding off my coat-tails. As you can tell, I'm a realist-- used to be romantic until I realized it was just a bunch of bs.

 

[psipsina]

Be careful what you write. Your husband's attorney may be reading this back to you in a deposition 15 years from now.

umm, the entire point of my thread was that I wouldn't fight providing support for my husband if we divorced after I started making money . . . so there wouldn't be a deposition 15 years from now. no matter what happens personally in the future, his support has made this possible for me, so he deserves some of the future benefits of it.

 

[Law2Doc]

umm, the entire point of my thread was that I wouldn't fight providing support for my husband if we divorced after I started making money . . . so there wouldn't be a deposition 15 years from now. no matter what happens personally in the future, his support has made this possible for me, so he deserves some of the future benefits of it.

Whether you would still feel this way in such event will depend a lot on the circumstances of the break-up of the marriage. Things like adultery, etc. tend to make people less amenable to alimony.

 

[koennen]

umm, the entire point of my thread was that I wouldn't fight providing support for my husband if we divorced after I started making money . . . so there wouldn't be a deposition 15 years from now. no matter what happens personally in the future, his support has made this possible for me, so he deserves some of the future benefits of it.

I know what the point of your post was. Everyone is in love when they get married. Who doesn't expect to spend the rest of his/her life with the person they take to the altar? Unfortunately, life sometimes interferes with those plans, as evidenced by a roughly 50% divorce rate in the US. I applaud your sentiments. I will applaud them even louder if you still feel that way 15 years from now in a divorce proceeding. If you do, however, do recognize that you will be the exception and not the rule.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

umm, the entire point of my thread was that I wouldn't fight providing support for my husband if we divorced after I started making money . . . so there wouldn't be a deposition 15 years from now. no matter what happens personally in the future, his support has made this possible for me, so he deserves some of the future benefits of it.

by your logic, your teachers, professors, and close family members who educated you and/or also supported you during your younger years and years preceeding your money making days are also entitled to receive a portion of your income as a physician.

it makes the most sense not to get married until one is completed with medical school. that way, the medical education is done outside the marriage. I read in some book giving advice for med students that even if one is not relying on the spouse for any economic support during med school, courts will often side with the non-doctor spouse because he/she provided "comfort" (read:SEX) during the medical school years. Essentially, it comes down to the fact that some people are ******. People getting married don't want to think about the potential for divorce, but it is a real possibility, especially when the potential monetary gains for the lazy partner (flameshield: on) are greater.

 

[koennen]

People getting married don't want to think about the potential for divorce, but it is a real possibility, especially when the potential monetary gains for the lazy partner (flameshield: on) are greater.

Flameshield on?? Damn, you better divert all power to those sheilds and arm the photon torpedoes.

 

[evade]

It's interesting that many of you seem to assume that your eventual spouse will have a substantially lesser earning potential than you will. Aren't any of you planning to marry someone who has a similar earning capacity? If you were to do so, would you still be in favor of a prenup?

 

[psipsina]

Ok, first, in my original post I stated that if my husband had cheated on me and that was the cause of the divorce, I would feel quite differently, but if it was a things just aren't workingout sort of divorce then I do feel that he is entitled to some monetary gain. Its not the same as my teachers . . . they aren't doing something for me on the asumption that they are going to share the life that we are building that they wouldn't necessarily do if that wasn't the case, its their job and they are being monetarily rewarded for said job already. And I do think it is the same as my parents, who put time and effort into helping me become me and in return I will take care of them when they are older. My mother and I don't get along at all but I will still support her financially because I owe her so much. My husband has been with me for 9 years and married to me for 6 years, and thru that time he has sacrificed alot on the assumption that when I reach my goals he would be around for some of the benefits too. Maybe its something you can't understand until you've had a great 9 year relationship with someone, but short of him doing something really atrocious, I wouldn't mind giving him monetary support after all he has done for me and all the experiences we have shared together.

 

[greytmedic]

When I got married I really didn't even consider a pre-nup. Not only because I am truly in love with my wife and I know we will be together forever , but because of other factors. She made more money than me and had nicer things than me. I also was just starting to get back into full-time pre-med mode so I would have been saying, "just in case many years from now I actually make it into med school, survive med school, make it through residency, and one day many years from now actually start making money I want to keep it all." I probably would have been better off making a pre-nup that said, "just in case many years from now I actually win the lottery I want to keep it all."

 

[dpmd]

Its funny, my husband and I talked about this the other day because of the Paul McCartney divorce. I don't see why he should be entitled to any of my earnings if we were to get divorced in the future (for whatever reason). The only thing I can see him being owed is payment for the actual support he provided while I was in school. I suppose one could go as far as to quantitate the number of meals he cooked, the laundry he did, etc and compensate for that as well. And I think California would say we have to divide our commonly acquired property (half I guess), but after that he should be on his own. I never understood why someone who had been married to a high wage earner would have any greater rights than someone married to a low wage earner. Maintaining them to the manner they had become accustomed to...bullsh*t you aren't married anymore, get accustomed to that. My husband thinks its stupid too, but he joked that he will take all the alimony they want to give him if I leave him for some hot surgeon later. Guess I should have made him sign a prenup.

 

[zek]

It's interesting that many of you seem to assume that your eventual spouse will have a substantially lesser earning potential than you will. Aren't any of you planning to marry someone who has a similar earning capacity? If you were to do so, would you still be in favor of a prenup?

Actually there could be other things to consider besides just income. Things like how debts would be paid, inheritance, and interest to name a few. For instance, if someone had a 401k plan when they got married and contributed to it throughout the marriage, then how would it be handled? Would they have to go back and determine how much was contributed during the marriage and gain or loss was associated with those contributions? That's the sort of problem a prenup could keep from arising.

 

[Law2Doc]

And I think California would say we have to divide our commonly acquired property (half I guess), but after that he should be on his own.

No way. You divide the property, plus alimony/support/maintenance. If you think the higher earning person gets off scott free with no alimony obligations in California, you are mistaken.

 

[Chuckwalla]

Its funny, my husband and I talked about this the other day because of the Paul McCartney divorce. I don't see why he should be entitled to any of my earnings if we were to get divorced in the future (for whatever reason). The only thing I can see him being owed is payment for the actual support he provided while I was in school. I suppose one could go as far as to quantitate the number of meals he cooked, the laundry he did, etc and compensate for that as well. And I think California would say we have to divide our commonly acquired property (half I guess), but after that he should be on his own. I never understood why someone who had been married to a high wage earner would have any greater rights than someone married to a low wage earner. Maintaining them to the manner they had become accustomed to...bullsh*t you aren't married anymore, get accustomed to that. My husband thinks its stupid too, but he joked that he will take all the alimony they want to give him if I leave him for some hot surgeon later. Guess I should have made him sign a prenup.

Like I said, why people shouldn't get married. He got you through school and you think he is entitled to crap.

 

[IckeyShuffle]

My husband has been with me and most of the time supporting me (emotionally and financially) since I was applying to colleges to be a premed so I could one day go to medschool. He has worked a series of jobs that he really isn't happy at to further our dream of me being a doctor and him being a stay at home dad. If for some reason something goes wrong and we get divorced after I've started to make bank, I feel like he really is entitled to be supported, since without his support it is doubtful that I would have made it here in the first place . . and he did things to be able to support me that he wouldn't have done if he wasn't trying to put his wife thru college/medschool. However we're talking about 6 years of marriage before I even got to the medschool stage, if it was a marriage that began in medschool or later and in which financial support hadn't come from the other party, then I would think about a prenup. Also if he did something unspeakable to cause the breakup I would fight the idea of supporting him.

thats easy to say before he cheats on you (not saying this will happen of course)

 

[Oculus Sinistra]

Nothing says "I don't really trust you" like a prenup.

It's not that.
A pre-nup says that while I trust you now, in the future if we come to a divorce, I'm protecting myself against the angry, bitter, do-whatever-you-can-to-hurt-me version of yourself.

 

[bubabugster]

Like I said, why people shouldn't get married. He got you through school and you think he is entitled to crap.

True, but he was the one who made the investment to support her through school, probably because he wanted to marry her. If he wasn't comfortable with that, then he shoudn't have put that much into the relationship. Everyone has choices and that was his and now they're married. Everyone got what they wanted.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

It's interesting that many of you seem to assume that your eventual spouse will have a substantially lesser earning potential than you will. Aren't any of you planning to marry someone who has a similar earning capacity? If you were to do so, would you still be in favor of a prenup?

Exactly what I was thinking! This thread is filled with people, not already in a marriage, who believe they'll be the high-wage earner. One poster even called the other spouse "lazy." And people wonder why doctors believe the world revolves around them.

 

[back4more]

I was searching for some really wierd facts once and stumbled across one between two supermodels regarding prenups.
Basically, it stated something like that had to have sex 6 times a week and that each sexual episode had to last 10 minutes in order for it to count as one of the 6. It also said that if the woman chooses not to have the sexual episode it is alright but not the same for the man.

I was like, what the hell?

 

[psipsina]

thats easy to say before he cheats on you (not saying this will happen of course)

um, i think this is the third time ive typed this in this thread, I think he is entitled AS LONG AS THE REASON FOR THE DIVORCE ISN'T THAT HE CHEATED ON ME OR HIT ME OR SOME OTHER GROSS WRONG DOING . . . of course if he did any of those things I would fight not to have him make any financial gain from the divorce. . .

 

[Chuckwalla]

It's not that.
A pre-nup says that while I trust you now, in the future if we come to a divorce, I'm protecting myself against the angry, bitter, do-whatever-you-can-to-hurt-me version of yourself.

Very true. Everyone has one of those inside of them.

 

[mvenus929]

It's interesting that many of you seem to assume that your eventual spouse will have a substantially lesser earning potential than you will. Aren't any of you planning to marry someone who has a similar earning capacity? If you were to do so, would you still be in favor of a prenup?

Yeah, assuming my boyfriend actually sticks with the plan he has now, he'll be making more than me regularly, plus he'll be bringing an apartment in NYC into the deal. So if we are to be married, I think he'll be more worried about a prenup than I will. If we were to get divorced, then I just want to make it as least painful as possible. I've already seen my parents go through two divorces each, and I'm not a fan of the process.

 

[Disinence2]

Your significant other should be the one wanting one. They need it for their protection. After you graduate medical school u will have on average somewhere about 200k in debt (depending on school of course), If you then divorce she could be stuck with half of that dept. Pre-nups go both ways ya know!

If i were marying somone about to go in that much debt ide be the one wanting one, regardless how much money they have the potential to make.

 

[koennen]

It's interesting that many of you seem to assume that your eventual spouse will have a substantially lesser earning potential than you will. Aren't any of you planning to marry someone who has a similar earning capacity? If you were to do so, would you still be in favor of a prenup?

Oh, yes. Definitely plan to marry someone with similar earning potential. Widely acknowledged to be a key determinant of healthy, happy marriage.

 

[evade]

Oh, yes. Definitely plan to marry someone with similar earning potential. Widely acknowledged to be a key determinant of healthy, happy marriage.

Oh, please. I'm asking because (a) some people are already engaged or are thinking about marriage, and because (b) often, highly educated professionals pair off with other highly educated professionals. I'm not saying this is Primary Objective #1, I'm saying this is a more likely scenario than all these rich, successful doctors marrying these greedy, divorce-happy louts with really low salaries, thus forcing the rich, successful docs to worry about what happens to their precious monies when the marriage goes south. Perhaps "considering" would have been better phrasing.

 

[pinkcolls]

I was reading about pre-nups just the other day-- something really important to consider whether you make a lot of money or not is the debt acquired during the marriage. If your husband or wife has some secret credit card with a high balance that was opened during the marriage, debt collectors are legally able to come after the other spouse, even if they are divorced, for the money. Pre-nups can prevent this. Who wants to have to find out that his or her significant other was having an affair-- and then have to pay for the hotel rooms, romantic dinners, and gifts?