Question wamc

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

generalredding

New Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
10
Reaction score
1
(Trying to keep the post a little ambiguous) Question... I just went to an interview this earlier this week and as I was talking with other students (fmg, do, Carib and American md students) I found that they all had more interview invites than I do. Should I be worried that I only have a few offers or should I just sit tight and wait?

My stats

Top 1/3rd med school

1st 2 yrs were strict pass/ no pass and I passed all courses

All high pass and 1 pass for 3rd year rotations ( but due to the pass I am in bottom 25%)

Great anesthesia review/letters.

Invites in 2 at very good california programs, 2 programs in Texas, 1 in NYC, 1 Kentucky, 1 in Virginia, 1 in upstate New York. Trust me I applied to very prestigious programs as well as "safety" programs... My advisor even commended me on not being a location or ranking *****.

Mid 220s

I have been rejected from Jefferson, UB, Temple and UCLA-cedars.

I applied to 40 programs ( with a wide variety of reputations) no location preference

From other people I heard that 75% of invites came in by the end of October last round and only a few beyond that.

220s step 1, 230s step 2

I only have 1 prelim medicine interview out of 12 apps and no surgery prelims out of 6 programs (all 18 are "no names"
No disciplinary action or red flags (other than the single pass in a required rotation which screwed up my ranking... But my school told me It was like a C in college) never failed a single thing.

Anyway nearly everyone else claimed to have more invites than me even DOs, FMGs, Caribbean students...

Should I be worried or chill the heck out and realize I am about average and just sit tight
 
Last edited:
i appreciate your neuroticism, but im not sure what the level of worry you have could do about the situation. if you are worried about something in your application, you could always double check to make sure everything is in place (board scores, letters up to date). you could even call/email some of your safety school just to "check in" and verify that your application is in and if there is anything else you need to submit, etc. i dont necessarily recommend that, but it is something you could 'do', if you find that not 'doing' anything just makes you more worried.

it will be okay.
 
how do you KNOW you have great letters? You waived your right to see them...
 
how do you KNOW you have great letters? You waived your right to see them...
Umm because often times the counselors who give advice to their students, upload the letters, and give valuable advice will tell you how good or bad the letters are. Other times the docs who wrote them will give or send you a copy. In other instances they will say something along the lines of "I gave you my highest recommendation" and the person is someone you have gotten to know all through school. Other times the person or people you interview with will tell you how wonderful your letters were or will say "please give my best to Dr. Letter-writer who I am good friends with. I don't understand how you are confused by this... But thanks for having such a concrete mind. Anything else I can clear up for you Sherlock? I feel as though this should not be a new concept as this was the same for college and medical school. Also you waive your right to view letters... That by no means stops or prohibits the letter authors from giving you a copy. Please do not go to any of the programs I go to as I feel we could never coexist. While most people who troll these sites may be better applicants or have better scores than mine I feel that I would still be justified in proclaiming that you may have the deduction skills of an inbred eggplant. Please forgive me for the vitriolic nature of this post and know that I spent the last 5 hours at a wedding with a 3 year old child and their inconsiderate parents who were unaware that a kid shouting at the top of their lungs should be excused from the ceremony
 
Umm because often times the counselors who give advice to their students, upload the letters, and give valuable advice will tell you how good or bad the letters are. Other times the docs who wrote them will give or send you a copy. In other instances they will say something along the lines of "I gave you my highest recommendation" and the person is someone you have gotten to know all through school. Other times the person or people you interview with will tell you how wonderful your letters were or will say "please give my best to Dr. Letter-writer who I am good friends with. I don't understand how you are confused by this... But thanks for having such a concrete mind. Anything else I can clear up for you Sherlock? I feel as though this should not be a new concept as this was the same for college and medical school. Also you waive your right to view letters... That by no means stops or prohibits the letter authors from giving you a copy. Please do not go to any of the programs I go to as I feel we could never coexist. While most people who troll these sites may be better applicants or have better scores than mine I feel that I would still be justified in proclaiming that you may have the deduction skills of an inbred eggplant. Please forgive me for the vitriolic nature of this post and know that I spent the last 5 hours at a wedding with a 3 year old child and their inconsiderate parents who were unaware that a kid shouting at the top of their lungs should be excused from the ceremony

Maybe your anger issues came out somewhere in the application? I dunno. He asked a legitimate question, no need to jump down the throat of a random internet poster.

Most people don't really know what's in their letters. Even if your letter-writer butters you up in person, that doesn't necessarily mean they say the same thing in the letter.

That said, I doubt it's the letters. They seem to rarely make someone (though they can break someone). It's probably more the very average rotation grades/test scores.

I would also recommend following up on schools where you're in limbo. Residency programs are like women, they like to constantly hear how awesome they are and how much you want to be with them and only them.
 
What's a few?

And it wouldn't be unheard of for applicants to exaggerate their stats, interviews, etc. to each other. Everyone wants to toot their own horn and no one wants to look like the weak applicant.
 
Invites in 2 at very good california programs, 2 programs in Texas, 1 in NYC, 1 Kentucky, 1 in Virginia, 1 in upstate New York. Trust me I applied to very prestigious programs as well as "safety" programs... My advisor even commended me on not being a location or ranking *****.

Mid 220s

Don't know your breakdown of prestigious to safety schools.

But if the majority are "prestigious", there lies the problem. Most of these have arbitrary step cutoffs, something like 230 or 240. Your Do/Caribbean colleagues most likely applied to a lot of middle to low ranking programs. If you applied to more middle ground programs, you probably would of received more interviews. You will receive less interviews than others, but the quality of your interviews will be higher. Not necessarily a bad thing as a majority of applicants match in their top 3 ranks. Too lazy to look up NRMP data but I know its high.

Also, like WholeLottaGame mentioned, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Yeah I read the excuse, still doesnt give you a right to act like a d*ck. Act anything like this on your IVs and I'll assure you that you will not be ranked period.
 
Umm because often times the counselors who give advice to their students, upload the letters, and give valuable advice will tell you how good or bad the letters are. Other times the docs who wrote them will give or send you a copy. In other instances they will say something along the lines of "I gave you my highest recommendation" and the person is someone you have gotten to know all through school. Other times the person or people you interview with will tell you how wonderful your letters were or will say "please give my best to Dr. Letter-writer who I am good friends with. I don't understand how you are confused by this... But thanks for having such a concrete mind. Anything else I can clear up for you Sherlock? I feel as though this should not be a new concept as this was the same for college and medical school. Also you waive your right to view letters... That by no means stops or prohibits the letter authors from giving you a copy. Please do not go to any of the programs I go to as I feel we could never coexist. While most people who troll these sites may be better applicants or have better scores than mine I feel that I would still be justified in proclaiming that you may have the deduction skills of an inbred eggplant. Please forgive me for the vitriolic nature of this post and know that I spent the last 5 hours at a wedding with a 3 year old child and their inconsiderate parents who were unaware that a kid shouting at the top of their lungs should be excused from the ceremony

Based on this post you sound like an arrogant ass and it's no real surprise to me that you feel the way you do about your application. You got 8 interviews which should be enough to match, but in your mind, this probably feels like a slap in the face because you see yourself as a much stronger candidate than you really are. The bio you posted makes you sound like a pretty average candidate. You have nothing that particularly stands out as significantly positive or negative and the number of interviews you got seems pretty reasonable. Chill out and enjoy the process knowing that you should have a >90% chance of matching into this specialty.

A random poster was asking a legit question and you jumped down his/her throat, not cool dude. YOU came here to ask US for help, not the other way around so don't be surprised or offended when people ask questions to try to help YOU better. Learning proper interpersonal skills and how to interact with others can be even more important in being a good doctor than your actual medical knowledge so try to take this advice to heart......When you ask for advice or help on an internet forum, from an attending, or from another resident, it's not nice to insult them when they ask questions. Just shut your mouth, open your ears, and try to absorb the information being presented by the people you asking the question to after all, it was you that wanted their advice. Be thankful that we do respond to your questions because we could easily ignore your posts.
 
You're not a stellar applicant based on what you posted. That's it.
The other interviewees were probably blustering as well.
Chill out, you'll live longer. It's too bad quaaludes are no longer available. You need some of the 714.
cun1gSKE7TbLcAV.jpg


I read some of your other posts. Wow man, I hope you didn't apply to my home program.
 
Last edited:
Question... I just went to an interview this earlier this week and as I was talking with other students (fmg, do, Carib and American md students) I found that they all had more interview invites than I do. Should I be worried that I only have a few offers or should I just sit tight and wait?
Agree with above. Probably candidates jockeying for position trying not to look like the weak candidate in the bunch. Also see below for other possibility.
My stats

Top 1/3rd med school
People from 80% of medical schools think this

1st 2 yrs were strict pass/ no pass and I passed all courses
Schools with this policy do a disservice to top students

All high pass and 1 pass for 3rd year rotations ( but due to the pass I am in bottom 25%)
Depends on your school's grade distribution (grade inflation). If half the class gets Honors and you get a high pass, you are at best at the average level. Some schools give out very high percentages of Honors. High pass is equivalent to B's in most cases, though a few schools have different grade distributions. So it sounds as though you got mostly B's with one C if you translate it to that system. It also depends on what class you got the "C" in. A "C" in neurology does not equal a "C" in surgery.
Some schools include the shelf exam scores in the Dean's letter. Consistently low grades on those can be a marker for how well one does on standardized exams.
If getting a Pass in one class drops you to the last quartile, there is likely significant grade inflation. The quartile that you are in is much more telling than the actual grades you get because it is the equalizer in cases of grade inflation.

Great anesthesia review/letters.
Anesthesiologists are notoriously soft graders and give everyone a top score. In my mind, an A, or its equivalent, is automatic unless you really screw up.
Letters of rec are mostly the same and rarely have an impact.

Invites in 2 at very good california programs, 2 programs in Texas, 1 in NYC, 1 Kentucky, 1 in Virginia, 1 in upstate New York. Trust me I applied to very prestigious programs as well as "safety" programs... My advisor even commended me on not being a location or ranking *****.
It is important to know what the real "safety" programs are. Many smaller programs that are not well known are still very competitive because of local reputation. It is up to your advisor to make sure you have applied to real "safety" programs.

I have been rejected from Jefferson, UB, Temple and UCLA-cedars.
Not uncommon to get scattered and, seemingly random, rejections, yet acceptances from programs you didn't think you would get. It can be extremely unpredictable.

I applied to 40 programs ( with a wide variety of reputations) no location preference
I would think that would be an okay number as long as your ratios of competitive, average, and weak programs was well thought out and appropriate. For a bottom quartile student, I would tell my advisees to apply to a few highly competitive programs, but mostly average programs and several (8-10) safety programs.

From other people I heard that 75% of invites came in by the end of October last round and only a few beyond that.
Probably true. Possibly 80-85%. As people begin to cancel, a few spots will open up. Make sure your schedule is flexible.
This is the first year Dean's letters came out early, so invites went out even earlier than usual IMHO.

220s step 1, 230s step 2
Not bad scores. Probably right at the average for those who successfully match into anesthesiology. I think the average a year or two ago was 228 for step I and 234ish for step II.

I only have 1 prelim medicine interview out of 12 apps and no surgery prelims out of 6 programs (all 18 are "no names"
Not completely sure, but I think prelim spots may offer a bit later than core program spots. I think many are still interviewing for those spots well into January.

No disciplinary action or red flags (other than the single pass in a required rotation which screwed up my ranking... But my school told me It was like a C in college) never failed a single thing.
That is a plus. One thing you did not mention is your dean's letter comments. The large majority of candidates do not have any negative or lukewarm comments on their dean's letter. If you have even one comment that is not positive, you are an outlier already. If you have two or more, most programs will avoid. An example of a lukewarm comment might be "He was encouraged to make sure to show up on time for rounds." Translation is, he was frequently late (lazy). A blatantly negative comment such as "He had to be reminded to be respectful of other members of the team" or worse is extremely rare and can cost a person a spot. Based on your response to heron above, it would not be outside the realm of possibilities that you could have rubbed someone the wrong way during your clerkships. Although, to be fair, most feel a sense of security to be a jerk when they have the anonymity of the internet to hide them. So I doubt you would address anyone that way in real life situations.

Anyway nearly everyone else claimed to have more invites than me even DOs, FMGs, Caribbean students...
There are always a handful of stellar IMG's and carib grads that will get the majority of the invites passed out to that subset of candidates. You may have met them that day. There are many outstanding DO candidates and the ones who have good grades and good scores frequently get a large number of invites. You may have also met them that day as well. It sounds like it was an early (in the season) invite, so you probably saw many of the candidates who got very early invites because they passed the highest bars in the screening method (great grades and high board scores). As the interview season wears on and the better candidates become more selective, you will start to look more like the other candidates (average), which will be a good thing. There are a few candidates who are the total package and they will get the majority of the early invites. They will soon realize this (after having accepted "all" of them) and begin to cancel the interviews where they would prefer not to be.

Should I be worried or chill the heck out and realize I am about average and just sit tight

Not many variables you can change at this point, so I would just chill out and let it happen. It is getting a bit late to add other programs through ERAS and the return will not be great since most programs have already offered the majority of their interview spots. I feel like you are going to be fine. Good luck.
 
.....be lucky you have even 8 interviews. Anesthesiologists are an observant bunch by nature and, by and large, great judges of character in my experience. They'll let you talk until the crazy comes out and in your case I'm sure it will. Good luck, your stats are good enough to match into some nice programs.
 
top third us med school + avg usmles should yiels a decent # of interviews invites. with 40 apps you really should have more. the bottom 1/4 label doesn't help matters but should still trump MOST of the do/fmg/img crowd (based on my experience with adcom back in residency and now at work). only 1 prelim medicine and NO prelim surgery interviews is perhaps more telling. something is amiss and i suspect there is a 'red flag' on your app that you don't know about. my advice for you is do your best at the interviews you have and try to come off as a nice guy people want to work with. good luck.
 
Top