Questions about D.O. and applying

[MedCruiser1]

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Hi,

I am thinking of applying to D.O. schools and I don't have any D.O-related experience. I have a lot of medical experience, but none while shadowing a D.O. Also, I don't have any letters of recommendation from a D.O. Is it okay if I submit letters of recommendation without one coming from a D.O.? Also, I was wondering where and how does a D.O work and set-up practice. Are patients ever discouraged since you aren't an MD? Thanks for any info.

MedCruiser1

 

[Popoy]

Some osteopathic med school accept a letter of rec from an MD or a DO.

Where does a DO work and set up practice? Anywhere you see a doctor working.... HMOs, PPOs, FPOs, rural, urban, suburban, big cities, small cities, etc....

As for whether or not patients are discourage about having an DO over an MD.... All of the patient of an osteopathic physician I've talked to express how much of a better care they get and would rather have a DO over an MD as much as possible.... All the osteopathic physicians I've shadowed and talked to approach patient care in a different angle and are more approachable and understanding....

 

[MedCruiser1]

Hi Popoy,

Thanks for your response. I am also wondering what the schooling is like? I know it is 4 years, but how long is the residency. Also, can a D.O. specialize in neurology or internal medicine, etc. And are the opportunities and pay similar to that with people with an MD? Just wondering. Also, I have noticed you post quite frequently on SDN, I was wondering what your background is and why you didn't choose MD over D.O.? Thanks for your input!

MedCruiser1

 

[Popoy]

Originally posted by MedCruiser1:
•Hi Popoy,

Thanks for your response. I am also wondering what the schooling is like? I know it is 4 years, but how long is the residency. Also, can a D.O. specialize in neurology or internal medicine, etc. And are the opportunities and pay similar to that with people with an MD? Just wondering. Also, I have noticed you post quite frequently on SDN, I was wondering what your background is and why you didn't choose MD over D.O.? Thanks for your input!

MedCruiser1•

Schooling-wise, it's different for each school... with that I mean that it's the typical 2+2 model. That is 2yr basic sci and 2 yr rotation. Some schools emphasize system-based learning, problem-based, independent, etc.

Residency is the same length as allopaths. Actually some DO's do allopathic residencies. I'm not an expert in this so you might want to post up in the other forum. Osteopathic students can do osteopathic and allopathic residencies while allopaths cannot do osteopathic residencies. Some students also opt for a internship at an accredited osteopathic hospital after the four years of med (details on that I'm not sure of).

DO's can specialize in an specialty. I, personally, have met and shadowed OB/GYN, Dermatology, Neurology, IM-GI specialty, Orthopedic Surgeon.

Pay is similar to MD's.... it depends on location, specialty, etc. I think there was a thread before regarding this topic you might want to search in the resident forum.

I actually applied to both MD and DO. My first choice was DO schools and MD as a backup. I've had great experiences with osteopathic docs. They're more approachable, patient oriented,.... it really comes down to what fits you best.... I thought that the philosophies and principles of osteopathic medicine fits the type of doctor I'd like to be....

Do what's best for you.... in the end you'll become a doctor no matter which degree you choose....

 

[MedCruiser1]

Thanks again Popoy,

One other quick question. As for a D.O., when I talk to my friends about it, they are clueless about what a D.O. is. I know they specialize in the whole body and concentrate on treating the patient from an entire perspective. Also, I know that they deal with muscle/bone adjustments. The overall approach sounds nice, but I was wondering if you could tell me what you feel are the major differences between an MD and a DO or whoever else wants to respond to this post. Thanks!

 

[apple638]

There have been discussions on this topic throughout the forum. You might want to do a search especially in the osteopathic and pre-osteopathic forums.

Here are the basic similarities and differences between MD and DO:

How Does an M.D. Differ from a D.O.?

M.D.s are similar to D.O.s. An M.D. is a physician trained at a standard four year medical school. D.O.s receive the same four year medical school training but with the osteopathic philosophies tied into the basic principles of medicine. D.O.s also receive hundreds of hours of additional training in manipulative medicine techniques and diagnosis. Upon graduation from medical school, D.O.s continue with residency training in any of the medical specialties, from family practice to neurosurgery.

Otherwise there are few differences; M.D.s and D.O.s have the same practice rights throughout the United States. You can find D.O.s and M.D.s working together in the best hospitals and clinics throughout the nation. D.O.s are also found in all branches of military medicine -- in fact, the Surgeon General of the U.S. Army is an osteopathic physician!

 

[Popoy]

apple638 answered this a bit.... I highly recommend you go to www.aacom.org and search through the site.

Also search the forum as well....

Now if you're ready to really get to know Osteopathic medicine, read Norman Gevitz's "THE DO: OSTEOPATHIC MEDICINE IN AMERICA"... which is about 160pages only.... It tells of the history and struggle of osteopathic medicine with "orthodox" (allopathic) medicine.

IN the main page of this site there is also links you can skim through....

BTW, it's not just bone/muscle adjustment as many would think.... there are several techniques.... I'll list some here:
- Soft Tissue and Lymphatic Treatment
- High Velocity,Low Amplitude Thrust
- Articulatory Technique
- Muscle Energy
- Counterstrain Technique
- Myofacial Release
- Craniosacral
- Visceral Technique

If you get a chance you can also look into a book called "Osteopathic Medicine: A Reformation in Progress." This explores the principles, philosophies, difference with allopathic, current dilemmas, distinguishing osteopaths to allopaths, etc.

I'm giving you these reference because these will help you in your exploration of osteopathic medicine..... More than what I think and what I can tell you....

I'm glad you're seriously considering osteopathic medicine and I hope you find it something that may suit you.

The gist of what the differences is what apple638 had stated....

 

[MedCruiser1]

Thanks again for the advice!

Another question popped up. I will be applying to D.O. schools with a $40,000 debt--30K for undergrad. and 10K for credit card. How is going into D.O. school with a 40K debt? Is this seriously going to screw me up for quite some time as far as getting myself established and up-and-running once I become a D.O. (that is if I get in). I am concerned about the financial matters because this is a huge debt for me. I come from a severly disadvantaged background, thus, I always had to pay for everything myself including private school, moped, clothes, etc. Lastly, how much do D.O. schools cost and how quickly do people pay the debt off?

Thanks again for the advice!
MedCruiser1

 

[Popoy]

I've been told not to worry about debts.... At DMU the tuition this year is $24,900.... I'm going to be on loans alone.... The financial aid office came up with ~$45,000 for the yearly cost.

Other schools are cheaper....

There are options you may want to look into....HPSP and NHSC....

Armed Forces HPSP (Health Professional Scholarship Program) for the Navy, Army, and Air Force.... Will pay for everything for the year plus a monthly stipend.... You would have to serve 40 days every year with them on reserves during your years in medical school. Some choose to do this 40 days during the summer.

NHSC (National Health Service Corp) Scholarship Program. Will pay for everything and a monthly stipend of $900-1000. Limitations include becoming a primary care physician for your career.

Alright my explanations is not even the tip of the iceberg....

I think the aggregate loans for medical professional is $180,000 total.... So depending on your tuition and expenses and how much money you'll be really taking out.... I can see some leeway (sp?) for subsidized, unsubsidized, other loans for you during med school.... Besides, I'm sure your financial aid office (in the medical school) you'll be attending will help you through it.

Another option is possibly doing a work-study and working during summer to pay off some debt.

 

[apple638]

I totally understand where you're coming from Medcruiser 1 but after med school, almost everybody will be in debt. Your 40k debt added to as much as 250k from med school is what you'll probably be facing.

Don't freak out. There are scholarships that you should start looking into like the national public health corps or even military scholarships. They pay for almost everything in med school plus give you a monthly stipend. Then after your residency, you work either in a underserved area or on a military base. There are also loan repayment programs available to physicians after they have finished school. State as well as federal government have these different programs.

I'm only giving you general information. Check out the following website and you can also do this forum for topics such as these. http://www.dphhs.state.mt.us/hpsd/pubheal/healplan/primcare/nhscsch.htm
http://www.bphc.hrsa.dhhs.gov/nhsc/default.htm
http://library.thinkquest.org/15569/pur1-mil.html

 

[Popoy]

apple68 gotzzzz the hook up!!! 😀

Check out those sites....

 

[apple638]

oops, I left out a word in one of my sentences from my last post... You can do a search in this forum for related topics.

Popoy, did you apply for the NHSC program? I know you had alot of information about it on other threads and just wanted to know if you had some more insight about it. I applied and am still waiting to hear something. I had my interview back in May. I believe that that is a good thing because from my understandings, if you hear from them before August, that means you didn't get it or you're on the alternative list. I went ahead and filled out all my financial aid papers for loans just in case but I'm still praying for a miracle.

 

[Popoy]

Originally posted by apple638:
•oops, I left out a word in one of my sentences from my last post... You can do a search in this forum for related topics.

Popoy, did you apply for the NHSC program? I know you had alot of information about it on other threads and just wanted to know if you had some more insight about it. I applied and am still waiting to hear something. I had my interview back in May. I believe that that is a good thing because from my understandings, if you hear from them before August, that means you didn't get it or you're on the alternative list. I went ahead and filled out all my financial aid papers for loans just in case but I'm still praying for a miracle.•

I called them and they said it's still in the process of assessing applicants. Although after coaxing him to say something he said he noticed that rejection letters usually come out before August and there after (You didn't hear that from me 😉)... I interviewed also back in May and still awaiting the decision....

Like yourself, I've signed my loans and hoping..... nope.... PRAYING really HARD!!! for a miracle to happen as well.... I guess we just need to sit tight and wait it out.... 😎

 

[apple638]

Popoy,

I'll be praying for you as well as myself. Keep me in your prayers. Do you know how many people applied and how many interviewed? Have they said how many scholarships they will be able to award yet?

 

[Atlas]

What if you don't want to join the military and you don't get accepted in the national health service corps? I'm taking out ~$6,000 for my undergrad education. During med school, I'm thinking I can live comfortably on $15,000 a year. So..
$15,000 x 4 = $60,000
Then, let's say tuition is around 30k. $30,000 x 4 = $120,000.

$60,000+120,000 = $180,000.

I've been told that I can take out a MAX of $183,000 in total stafford loans. Is this correct? Therefore, I couldn't afford to go because I will rely totally on loans as well. At that rate, can I supplement the stafford loans with other types of funding...private loans? Financial aid?

Also, I've noticed that some schools (I think UHS) have a budget already for you that you are supposed to follow. It allows ~11,000 a year to live. I don't see how this is possible. It's not enough! Could somebody please explain this? Can I take out more money if I want? What is the max I can borrow? Will private loans help tie my up financial package together? Can I get financial aid (FAFSA) for medical school? BLAH BLAH BLAH..I got a million questions!! lol 🙂

 

[apple638]

Atlas, I totally understand your questions. As a matter of fact, I'm still asking them myself (lol) I'll try my best to answer some of your questions for you. Like you said, your financial aid office has a set budget. You supposedly cannot get any money over that budget. However, I've been told that your school will work with you to help get you more money via other private loans from banks and loans your parents can take out for you.

 

[sandj9397]

Medcruiser,

Contact your local state D.O association. I contacted mine via telephone and they sent me a list of all the DOs in my area. I had no contact with DOs either. To my surprise they were all around me and they were all willing to meet me and answer any questions. It saved me some headaches when searching for a letter of recommendation. Check aacom's website for listings of all state associations.

 

[doughboy]

I can tell you a little about how much you can take out. The best information would be from the individual financial aid office at the school you'll be going to. I wouldn't really worry about the big picture in paying for med school. Getting in is the hard part. Since med school is considered a graduate school and you are considered an independent regardless if your parent's can write you off on taxes...it makes things easier. Stafford subsidized(don't pay interest while in school) is $8500 per school year. The stafford unsubsidized(interest accrues right away) can go up to $30000 for the first two years and the third and fourth years they let you take up to 40000 on the unsubsidized. But when you get your award letter they take into account the tuition of the school, on/off campus, state residency if applicable. I have friends that are maxed out every year and they do fine...actually they could take out less but when you start getting "free" money you sort of don't care what another $1000 is when you're going to be 100,000+ in debt. I have another friend who is married, has two children(one born during med school)...he has said some financial problems but through persistence the financial aid office usually tries to help you out. You can always get private loans but the interest on those might not be as competitive. Either way, just get in, worry about the finances then, because you can always find a way to pay for med school...I think banks like lending us money because we probably have a higher percentage of paying them back off.

 

[doughboy]

Wow, that does add up. So basically you'll be ~180,000 grand in debt when you graduate. At least you can look forward to the 35,000 salary you'll get as an intern. Boy, now I feel a little depressed. How come I never hear of any other professions this much in debt? Tack on the cost of books, medical equipment, applying to residency, flying to interviews....its hard to believe how some med schools can run into financial problems. I think us med students have it the worst....that is if you don't want to work for the military---now that, if it appeals to you is a great deal.

 

[Kal El]

Yep, 11 grand is tough to live on, but it is possible. I just had to be anal. I actually think the adjusted gross spending on living expenses for UHS is around 13 grand this year though.
Later

 

[Kal El]

Oh yeah, get this if you take out the max on the stafford loans each year and nothing more you'll be paying around $2,600 a month starting in the middle of your second year of residency just to pay off those loans in the ten years alotted. Of course, you can extend that to 25 years and pay lower payments.(and about a half million more in cash) Furthermore, I calculated this at 7% interest rate which depends on the FED. Right now APR is around 6.5%