Questions about neurology from a medical student

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Ok then, you’ll have the chance to apply to these programs as I doubt they’ll all phase out in the next 3 years.

reason is that coming out of neurophys, you won’t be an “expert” at treating anything. You’re basically a general neurologist who can read and do EEGs/EMGs and maybe sleep studies very well but lack the tertiary level understanding/training of epilepsy/NM/sleep compared to someone who did a dedicated fellowship in these fields.

Nothing wrong with that. Just need to know what you want in your career.
This would be entirely ok with me as I prefer to mix things up anyways and I'm also really interested in the business side of medicine as well so this seems to be more compatible with that. I do not see myself being a super subspecialist in an academic center treating a specific population at all. Good to know, thanks!

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This would be entirely ok with me as I prefer to mix things up anyways and I'm also really interested in the business side of medicine as well so this seems to be more compatible with that. I do not see myself being a super subspecialist in an academic center treating a specific population at all. Good to know, thanks!
Then this route is perfect for you
 
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I'm sorry, ignorant medical student here lol but is it possible to just say a neurological consult is not indicated based on the information provided, or is that just bad consult etiquette? Or do you get paid per consult and it's better to see that patient anyways even though it's BS from a Neurological stand point?

Do you still run into this problem in the outpatient setting? Like getting referrals to your office that dont need a Neurologist and just end up wasting your time and the patients time? Or can you screen these patients before the visit?

Sorry I don't know how any of this really works lol, I just know I'm interested in Neurology since undergrad and I will figure out the rest as I go hopefully without regretting my decision. The entire process of picking a specialty in med school is such bull**** -.-

The problem with this approach is that the provider making the call might not have any idea what they are looking at or what things to tell you that might be important. "My patient had a headache this morning on rounds" called 3 hours after that patient was seen can easily be a IPH with impending herniation, decompensating aSAH, RCVS, etc by the time you get the call and lay eyes. Refuse that consult, even if the reason for consult as expressed by the consulting physician was stupid to the point where you question their capacity to walk and breathe at the same time much less pass a board exam, and you're on the hook too.

As stated above, nobody knows a damn thing about neurology. Even some neurologists.
 
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I'm sorry, ignorant medical student here lol but is it possible to just say a neurological consult is not indicated based on the information provided, or is that just bad consult etiquette? Or do you get paid per consult and it's better to see that patient anyways even though it's BS from a Neurological stand point?

Do you still run into this problem in the outpatient setting? Like getting referrals to your office that dont need a Neurologist and just end up wasting your time and the patients time? Or can you screen these patients before the visit?

Sorry I don't know how any of this really works lol, I just know I'm interested in Neurology since undergrad and I will figure out the rest as I go hopefully without regretting my decision. The entire process of picking a specialty in med school is such bull**** -.-

I don't get paid per consult, but saying no to consults often is bad etiquette. I don't really turn down many consults with the exception of the truly absurd. Part of the reason I do that is because I've run into the odd dumb consult on paper only to walk in and see that it's something serious that has been completely missed (again, the person who consults you may not know). Sometimes what I try to do is over the phone give a recommendation and see if that suffices. I.E. get an MRI and if there's ischemia call me, or this sounds like XYZ and if so it should resolve let me know if it doesn't. I always drop a note to the effect of that conversation and follow the chart however.

I'll say in the two years I've been working I've MAYBE turned down 3 consults. One was an isolated deviated tongue with nothing else going on and inability to get an MRI. Just an incidental finding (patient was admitted for something else), second was an already diagnosed radial nerve palsy with a wrist drop (don't have anything to contribute), and I think the last one was a seizure like activity consult on someone with an already well documented pseudoseizure history.

I don't do outpatient, so I don't know but I'm sure you get some of that outpatient as well. When I did epilepsy fellowship though I got a TON of referrals for non epileptic stuff such as syncope, parasomnias or pseudoseizures. It is what it is!
 
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I'll say in the two years I've been working I've MAYBE turned down 3 consults. One was an isolated deviated tongue with nothing else going on and inability to get an MRI. Just an incidental finding (patient was admitted for something else), second was an already diagnosed radial nerve palsy with a wrist drop (don't have anything to contribute), and I think the last one was a seizure like activity consult on someone with an already well documented pseudoseizure history.

Lmao, can't believe you denied a rare presentation of ICA dissection.
 
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I had the foresight to ask the chronicity which was >1 month. I set her up to be seen in clinic.
 
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I'm sorry, ignorant medical student here lol but is it possible to just say a neurological consult is not indicated based on the information provided, or is that just bad consult etiquette?

Generally considered bad etiquette, and in many residency programs, specifically verboten. Have thus far gotten out of exactly one consult, which was for a "breakthrough seizure" on a previously well-controlled patient who ran out of his keppra two weeks prior.
 
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You are seen as a wizard by most other physicians that lack specialization in the brain. Effective treatments are relatively few but fare better nowadays than they did in the past. You have to love puzzles and neurons. Very intellectually stimulating yet also monotonous/repetitive by inpatient standards.
 
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I have to ask, have you found Neurology to be less monotonous? This is extremely important to me as I think I'm the type that gets bored easily and I think I will need atypical cases to keep me on my toes.

It is a difficult question because temperament plays a major role in what kind of field is best for you. As you can tell by many posters above, its a love-hate relationship. Neuro is also on the lower side of "physician satisfaction"
I personally think it is definitely less monotonous than the other two fields, but after a while everything can become monotonous. Perhaps for someone else, fields like ER or trauma surgery or even Rads might be more fun/challenging. And I do miss/crave procedures at times.
Neurology is a very high-demand speciality and you can tailor your practice the way you want. Inpatient/Outpatient/Hospitalist or a mix of these. You can work like crazy or have a chill lifestyle. There are also a lot of subspecialties that you can pick based on what you might want to do in the future. And did I mention, brain is fascinating!!
 
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I do miss/crave procedures at times

Generally not an issue for the med students reading- botox/nerve blocks for migraines/HA, EMG guided botox for dystonia and spasticity, EMG, LPs if you care for them. Add reading EEGs and VNS/DBS/RNS programming to break up the day- not technically procedures by hand but quite billable and quite different than seeing patients by itself. Anyone that needs more procedures than this should gun in residency for interventional pain or neurointerventional which are both very obtainable if you set yourself up for them. For the med students reading this- you need to understand that neurology is broader than it appears and you can find a niche, patient population, and schedule that suits you. Working entirely from home is doable. Doing mainly procedures is doable. Entirely inpatient or entirely outpatient is doable. We get paid a bit better than most other 'non-procedural' fields and this is unlikely to change anytime soon due to market forces and the residency structure of the field.
 
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I am an MS3 that has very little exposure to the practical aspect of neurology. I am very interested in what I have studied in neuro, especially stroke, imaging, CSF, spinal cord injuries.

Due to the fact that I will have very little neurology experience before I apply to residency I was hoping you could tell me about your experience in neuro residency/practice if you would be so kind.

What is your typical day like?
What are the boring aspects?
What are the most exciting aspects?
What kind of person in your belief thrives in this specialty?
Do you have ample time to contemplate patient issues?
How do you feel you fit into the healthcare team?
What makes neurology unique?

Please feel free to add anything else about your experience!
Thanks in advance

Thank you for asking this question and I want to provide my experience to you all. I am a PGY-3, and for all the medical students reading this post, in my opinion, neurology is the best specialty to choose and the specialty makes for a lifelong satisfying career!

As a second note, to give the readers of this thread a bit of a different perspective, please keep in mind residency is hard and grueling no matter what field you go into. The relative amount of work varies considerably from program to program, and as applicants, definitely keep your eyes out for signs of burnout in residents, which is a very real problem in graduate medical education (the general word for residency) programs everywhere across all specialties. In my experience, overall, the workload as a neurology resident is comparable to other fields and average in amount. We aren't as overworked as surgeons but don't get a year of cush outpatient like psychiatrists.

What is your typical day like?
It entirely depends on your rotation. At my program, we rotate in 4 week blocks between inpatient and outpatient rotations. A stroke rotation day looks completely different from a general inpatient service day and certainly is much different from a day on neurophysiology reading EEGs. Overall, what makes this specialty great is the variety in work setting, work hours, and cases you'll experience no matter where you train.

What are the boring aspects?
Similar to other posters, certain consults get a bit tired over time, especially inpatient altered mental status consults (at least to me). However, one thing about neurology that is great is that we are the storytellers and meticulous historians amongst our colleagues, and often even the most boring consult has some interesting twist to it!

What are the most exciting aspects?
I think stroke, or vascular neurology cases, are the best because you can literally save someone's life. We also relieve pain, prevent disability, restore function, and counsel our patients on how to lead better lives like any other field. Do not believe the very wrong stereotype that neurologists can't do anything for their diseases! A deep brain stimulator can change a Parkinson's patient's life forever; plasmapheresis can take a young person with autoimmune encephalitis from a vegetative state to normal again; an adequately timed triptan can relieve days of misery in a patient with an acute migraine. Neurologists save lives, relieve suffering, and restore function on a daily basis!

What kind of person in your belief thrives in this specialty?
There are 3 key traits I think that a good neurologist needs - attention to detail, good listening skills, and patience. Neurological disease requires an excellent history, an excellent exam, and a sharp mind to find a diagnosis that sometimes escapes 5 or more other physicians.

Do you have ample time to contemplate patient issues?
I think so. It depends on the workload of a particular program or hospital. Remember, no matter what you do or how busy you are, you always have 60 seconds to breathe and quickly think through a differential diagnosis.

How do you feel you fit into the healthcare team?
We provide expert opinions about the nervous system, which literally no other specialty knows anything about. In terms of specific skills we add to a patients' care, I think neurologists add an ability to take detailed histories, perform in-depth physical exams that mean something, and make diagnoses that relieve suffering, restore function, and prognosticate.

What makes neurology unique?
One of the most unique skills a neurologist learns is localization. Unlike other specialties, most of the time with just a patients' history and neurological exam we can pinpoint sometimes with supreme accuracy where the patients' neuroanatomical dysfunction lies. We don't need labs or imaging to do this, although it helps in some cases.

I hope all the medical students reading this post will consider neurology as a career. Please feel free to message me with any concerns and check out my home program in California, Kaiser LAMC, to learn about why I think its the best place to get the training you need to become an excellent neurologist.
 
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definitely keep your eyes out for signs of burnout in residents, which is a very real problem in graduate medical education
You mentioned look for signs of burnout in residents. How exactly do we do this especially with the virtual format we have this year? I imagine when we meet with solely residents we could ask and just hope they would be forthcoming about their experience, otherwise I'm not sure how to go about this.
 
I want some of whatever is in this dude's kool-aid.
 
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Thank you for asking this question and I want to provide my experience to you all. I am a PGY-3, and for all the medical students reading this post, in my opinion, neurology is the best specialty to choose and the specialty makes for a lifelong satisfying career!

As a second note, to give the readers of this thread a bit of a different perspective, please keep in mind residency is hard and grueling no matter what field you go into. The relative amount of work varies considerably from program to program, and as applicants, definitely keep your eyes out for signs of burnout in residents, which is a very real problem in graduate medical education (the general word for residency) programs everywhere across all specialties. In my experience, overall, the workload as a neurology resident is comparable to other fields and average in amount. We aren't as overworked as surgeons but don't get a year of cush outpatient like psychiatrists.

What is your typical day like?
It entirely depends on your rotation. At my program, we rotate in 4 week blocks between inpatient and outpatient rotations. A stroke rotation day looks completely different from a general inpatient service day and certainly is much different from a day on neurophysiology reading EEGs. Overall, what makes this specialty great is the variety in work setting, work hours, and cases you'll experience no matter where you train.

What are the boring aspects?
Similar to other posters, certain consults get a bit tired over time, especially inpatient altered mental status consults (at least to me). However, one thing about neurology that is great is that we are the storytellers and meticulous historians amongst our colleagues, and often even the most boring consult has some interesting twist to it!

What are the most exciting aspects?
I think stroke, or vascular neurology cases, are the best because you can literally save someone's life. We also relieve pain, prevent disability, restore function, and counsel our patients on how to lead better lives like any other field. Do not believe the very wrong stereotype that neurologists can't do anything for their diseases! A deep brain stimulator can change a Parkinson's patient's life forever; plasmapheresis can take a young person with autoimmune encephalitis from a vegetative state to normal again; an adequately timed triptan can relieve days of misery in a patient with an acute migraine. Neurologists save lives, relieve suffering, and restore function on a daily basis!

What kind of person in your belief thrives in this specialty?
There are 3 key traits I think that a good neurologist needs - attention to detail, good listening skills, and patience. Neurological disease requires an excellent history, an excellent exam, and a sharp mind to find a diagnosis that sometimes escapes 5 or more other physicians.

Do you have ample time to contemplate patient issues?
I think so. It depends on the workload of a particular program or hospital. Remember, no matter what you do or how busy you are, you always have 60 seconds to breathe and quickly think through a differential diagnosis.

How do you feel you fit into the healthcare team?
We provide expert opinions about the nervous system, which literally no other specialty knows anything about. In terms of specific skills we add to a patients' care, I think neurologists add an ability to take detailed histories, perform in-depth physical exams that mean something, and make diagnoses that relieve suffering, restore function, and prognosticate.

What makes neurology unique?
One of the most unique skills a neurologist learns is localization. Unlike other specialties, most of the time with just a patients' history and neurological exam we can pinpoint sometimes with supreme accuracy where the patients' neuroanatomical dysfunction lies. We don't need labs or imaging to do this, although it helps in some cases.

I hope all the medical students reading this post will consider neurology as a career. Please feel free to message me with any concerns and check out my home program in California, Kaiser LAMC, to learn about why I think its the best place to get the training you need to become an excellent neurologist.
Just FYI, you probably should remove your real picture as your SDN avatar.
 
I am an MS3 that has very little exposure to the practical aspect of neurology. I am very interested in what I have studied in neuro, especially stroke, imaging, CSF, spinal cord injuries.

Due to the fact that I will have very little neurology experience before I apply to residency I was hoping you could tell me about your experience in neuro residency/practice if you would be so kind.

What is your typical day like?
What are the boring aspects?
What are the most exciting aspects?
What kind of person in your belief thrives in this specialty?
Do you have ample time to contemplate patient issues?
How do you feel you fit into the healthcare team?
What makes neurology unique?

Please feel free to add anything else about your experience!
Thanks in advance
What is your typical day like?

completely depends on the rotation during residency. Anything from a busy inpatient day where you don’t have time to eat to a better inpatient day with a few consults to performing EMG/EEG all day to seeing clinic patients all day


What are the boring aspects?

Documentation I guess would be “boring” but perhaps you also mean what are the frustrating aspects. As I have posted before one of my frustrations with inpatient neurology is that no other medical specialty is summoned multiple times per day for emergent patient evaluation without any objective evidence (eg trop, Cr, LFTs, etc) and often needs to try to prove a negative (“Ruling out TIA, seizure, or stroke” which is actually sometimes quite difficult to do).

What are the most exciting aspects?

Diversity of pathology, extreme breadth and depth to many sub specialties, diversity of career paths, nailing the crazy diagnosis that many other doctors have missed

What kind of person in your belief thrives in this specialty?

There are subspecialties that suit all personality types, but if you want to excel in residency then you need to be hard-working, open-minded, and not cut corners.

Do you have ample time to contemplate patient issues?

I don’t really get this question or how it relates to anything. Depends on way too many factors for the answer to be meaningful

How do you feel you fit into the healthcare team?

You see many patients that other doctors can’t “figure out”. You are sometimes asked to do the most ridiculous consults as many physicians (and more APPs) try to make anything “neuro”. Most specialties have no idea how many neurologic patients can be treated quite successfully and still believe in the extremely antiquated “diagnose and adios” which only exists in a slightly modified form for a few neurologic diseases.

What makes neurology unique?

The examination. It’s one of the only examinations in medicine that still truly matters every day. It’s extremely complex and takes time to perform and to master. It guides treatment decisions and in no other specialty do you have to think so much about WHERE to investigate and HOW to investigate. (Eg for this foot weakness is it muscle, NMJ, nerve, plexus, root, anterior horn, cord, brain stem, subcortex, cortical? Should I get EMG or MRI or an x ray or more rarely EEG or maybe LP or targeted genetic test or exome?)

The extreme diversity in careers. IM is the only other specialty that can lead to such incredibly varied day to day responsibilities in so many subspecialties. Stroke, NIR, hospitalist, epilepsy, CNP, movement, behavioral, headache, pain, sleep, General, neuro-ophtho, neuroID, autoimmune, neuroimmunology, autonomics, neuro-onc, neuro-oto, etc
 
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You mentioned look for signs of burnout in residents. How exactly do we do this especially with the virtual format we have this year? I imagine when we meet with solely residents we could ask and just hope they would be forthcoming about their experience, otherwise I'm not sure how to go about this.
I'd imagine you'll get some one-on-one time with resident(s); ask then. Or you could ask the PD/interviewers/etc how they combat burnout or something.
 
I've seen autoimmune mentioned here a few times– could someone tell me a bit more about what that entails for neurologists outside of MS? Are there neuroimmunology fellowships?
 
I've seen autoimmune mentioned here a few times– could someone tell me a bit more about what that entails for neurologists outside of MS? Are there neuroimmunology fellowships?
There are many neuroimmunology fellowships which largely focus on MS but there are a growing number of separate “autoimmune” fellowships (Utah, UTSW, Mayo, Colorado, Mass Gen, etc) which focus more on other inflammatory disorders encountered in neurology. These include neurosarcoidosis and other neurologic manifestations of systemic rheumatologic diseases (eg Neuro-behcets, Sjogren’s), the ever-expanding antibody-associated encephalitides (such as GAD65, NMDA, CRMP5, DPPX, the list goes on and on), neuromyelitis optica/MOG, primary angiitis of the CNS, increasingly recognized auto-inflammatory syndromes such as the cryoporin associated periodic syndrome (CAPS), and of course evaluation of a lot of either 1) difficult to diagnose true neurologic conditions mislabeled as “autoimmune”, or 2) non-neurologic conditions like functional neurologic disorder misdiagnosed as “autoimmune” and previously managed with immunomodulatory treatment.
 
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There are many neuroimmunology fellowships which largely focus on MS but there are a growing number of separate “autoimmune” fellowships (Utah, UTSW, Mayo, Colorado, Mass Gen, etc) which focus more on other inflammatory disorders encountered in neurology. These include neurosarcoidosis and other neurologic manifestations of systemic rheumatologic diseases (eg Neuro-behcets, Sjogren’s), the ever-expanding antibody-associated encephalitides (such as GAD65, NMDA, CRMP5, DPPX, the list goes on and on), neuromyelitis optica/MOG, primary angiitis of the CNS, increasingly recognized auto-inflammatory syndromes such as the cryoporin associated periodic syndrome (CAPS), and of course evaluation of a lot of either 1) difficult to diagnose true neurologic conditions mislabeled as “autoimmune”, or 2) non-neurologic conditions like functional neurologic disorder misdiagnosed as “autoimmune” and previously managed with immunomodulatory treatment.
Thanks for the detailed response! I've still got a good long while before choosing a specialty, but I've always had strong interests in both neuro and the immune system (PhD will likely be immunology). I'm glad to know the overlap is larger than I had previously understood it to be.
 
Thanks for the detailed response! I've still got a good long while before choosing a specialty, but I've always had strong interests in both neuro and the immune system (PhD will likely be immunology). I'm glad to know the overlap is larger than I had previously understood it to be.
Low key, I think neuroimmunology is going to be huge & you'll be smart to look into going into it, especially as a PhD. We're only going to have more solid diagnoses & treatment planes in the next several decades (assuming the world doesn't end before then).
 
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Thanks for the detailed response! I've still got a good long while before choosing a specialty, but I've always had strong interests in both neuro and the immune system (PhD will likely be immunology). I'm glad to know the overlap is larger than I had previously understood it to be.

Neuroimmunology has been a rapidly growing research field within the specialty for the last decade or so and will continue to be so for the foreseeable future. There's absolutely massive research and funding potential as a neurologist in this area.
 
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@Spinothalamic @DrSatan @Thama

Based off your comments and a few minutes of googling, it seems that this autoimmune fellowship is really pretty niche, in part because it's so new. It also seems really cool, so thanks to all of you for putting it on my radar!

Things will obviously be pretty different by the time I would be applying to this fellowship (assuming, of course, it's what I decide to do with my life) in 10 years, but could any of you tell me about what job/practice setup would look like when you're focused on something that rare? I'm assuming it's basically confined to large academic centers with lots of referrals, but I really don't know much else.
 
There are kind of two general paths to studying and treating autoimmune encephalidities. One is as an expansion of the traditional field of neuroimmunology, which was until recently mostly about demyelinating disorders like MS, NMO, ADEM, etc. Another is through behavioral neurology, really focusing on rapidly progressive dementia clinically.

Either way if you want to do research in this field you're going to be at an academic center. If you want to practice clinical neuroimmunology in the private setting, you'll see 95+ percent MS - autoimmune encephalidities are either rare enough or difficult enough to recognize that making an entire practice out of treating them is pretty unrealistic.
 
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There are kind of two general paths to studying and treating autoimmune encephalidities. One is as an expansion of the traditional field of neuroimmunology, which was until recently mostly about demyelinating disorders like MS, NMO, ADEM, etc. Another is through behavioral neurology, really focusing on rapidly progressive dementia clinically.

Either way if you want to do research in this field you're going to be at an academic center. If you want to practice clinical neuroimmunology in the private setting, you'll see 95+ percent MS - autoimmune encephalidities are either rare enough or difficult enough to recognize that making an entire practice out of treating them is pretty unrealistic.


Also, while there are obviously plenty of autoimmune encephalidities, most of the "autoimmune encephalitis" referrals will be the most functional of cases, with 35 year olds presenting with their parents with stacks of old records and negative work ups.
 
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Also, while there are obviously plenty of autoimmune encephalidities, most of the "autoimmune encephalitis" referrals will be the most functional of cases, with 35 year olds presenting with their parents with stacks of old records and negative work ups.
This is why it's important to do this sort of thing in an academic center with the right setup. Ideally PCPs and outlying community neurologists should not be referring directly to you if you're this subspecialized (and only doing ~25% clinical if you are MD/PhD with funding). You should be seeing people that are already identified from the inpatient side, diagnosed by other qualified neurologists at your center, and otherwise cleared by you to ensure you aren't wasting your time with these situations.
 
Unfortunately that still won't stop those referrals. You'll find neurologists/physicians of other specialties who will go "I dunno man, see this guy and see if he can figure it out". Especially if there are weak immune markers elevated across the board (a mild TPO elevation, ANA/dsDNA, etc) with a floridly functional presentation which I've seen before. These patients usually end up on roids/some other form of immunosuppression and then become an absolute disaster to manage. Not to mention, paraneoplastic/encephalitis panels have new tests added to them all the time and so this lends itself to repeating the tests all the time or referrals for "possible encephalitis" with a negative workup.
 
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Unfortunately that still won't stop those referrals. You'll find neurologists/physicians of other specialties who will go "I dunno man, see this guy and see if he can figure it out". Especially if there are weak immune markers elevated across the board (a mild TPO elevation, ANA/dsDNA, etc) with a floridly functional presentation which I've seen before. These patients usually end up on roids/some other form of immunosuppression and then become an absolute disaster to manage. Not to mention, paraneoplastic/encephalitis panels have new tests added to them all the time and so this lends itself to repeating the tests all the time or referrals for "possible encephalitis" with a negative workup.

The nice thing about being a subspecialist in an academic group with a narrowly defined scope of practice is that you usually have the leeway to say "we've ruled out the thing you referred them for which is what I do, please continue to follow with your primary neurologist for (insert vague complaint here)".
 
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True. I just have a bit of "PTSD" about being hounded by those type of folks when I was training despite the above spiel they always found a way back. Hence why I went the inpatient route.
 
True. I just have a bit of "PTSD" about being hounded by those type of folks when I was training despite the above spiel they always found a way back. Hence why I went the inpatient route.

The #1 reason why people run away from outpatient neurology is that clinics as a trainee have little to nothing to do with what it's like to practice as an outpatient attending. Neurology clinics suck as a resident no matter where you are, but that's not real life.
 
The #1 reason why people run away from outpatient neurology is that clinics as a trainee have little to nothing to do with what it's like to practice as an outpatient attending.

The message box is horrible and an unreimbursed mess. Inpatient jobs can actually be 7-7 with 7 on 7 off or better. An outpatient job 8-5 is realistically 8-7+ with 4 weeks or less vacation a year. Outpatient will average 22 working days a month (more if roped into call weekends) versus 15 or so for inpatient depending on structure. The lifestyle is just far better on the inpatient side and outpatient is not fairly compensated for the difference as most of the inpatient jobs pay better too. VA is the only exception for outpatient as you get all the VA holidays and can be out at 5 as you only see a handful of patients anyways.
 
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There is only so much "AMS" consults I can take. Outpatient is much more stimulating.
 
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The message box is horrible and an unreimbursed mess. Inpatient jobs can actually be 7-7 with 7 on 7 off or better. An outpatient job 8-5 is realistically 8-7+ with 4 weeks or less vacation a year. Outpatient will average 22 working days a month (more if roped into call weekends) versus 15 or so for inpatient depending on structure. The lifestyle is just far better on the inpatient side and outpatient is not fairly compensated for the difference as most of the inpatient jobs pay better too. VA is the only exception for outpatient as you get all the VA holidays and can be out at 5 as you only see a handful of patients anyways.

If you're out of training and still responding to the bulk of items from your message box yourself, then you need to talk to your group about hiring some real support staff.
 
The message box is horrible and an unreimbursed mess. Inpatient jobs can actually be 7-7 with 7 on 7 off or better. An outpatient job 8-5 is realistically 8-7+ with 4 weeks or less vacation a year. Outpatient will average 22 working days a month (more if roped into call weekends) versus 15 or so for inpatient depending on structure. The lifestyle is just far better on the inpatient side and outpatient is not fairly compensated for the difference as most of the inpatient jobs pay better too. VA is the only exception for outpatient as you get all the VA holidays and can be out at 5 as you only see a handful of patients anyways.
Idk the outpatient jobs I’ve rotated through were like 830-3 with 4 days per week and extremely limited call. It’s all preferences and where in the country you are I guess
 
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