Questions after failing Anatomy Block

[SwagSandwhich]

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I'm an MS1 and I failed Anatomy by .7%. No good excuses, I rarely studied, attempted to cram, and came up short. I'll now have to take an Anatomy-Exam this summer and pass that. A few questions.

1.) I'm .7% away from passing. Should I try and sweet-talk the block-chair into passing me?

2.) Will this fail be visible/affect my residency chances when applying? If so, how important is it?

Feel free to add anything you feel is important to this situation.

 

[giantswing]

1) sure, but back down if it's a no

2) depends on what you apply to.

Regardless, learn and don't do it again.

 

[kenjixshadow]

1.) I'm .7% away from passing. Should I try and sweet-talk the block-chair into passing me?

Not gonna happen. Don't do it, it will reflect badly on you.

2.) Will this fail be visible/affect my residency chances when applying? If so, how important is it?

It will show up in your dean's letter. Prepare to talk about it. Use this as a learning curve and do better from now on. Failing a preclinical class isn't the end of the world, but don't fail anymore. You just used up your one pass.

 

[Amygdarya]

It will show up in your dean's letter. Prepare to talk about it. Use this as a learning curve and do better from now on. Failing a preclinical class isn't the end of the world, but don't fail anymore. You just used up your one pass.

Not necessarily. Check out your school's remediation policy.

 

[sloop]

I'm an MS1 and I failed Anatomy by .7%. No good excuses, I rarely studied, attempted to cram, and came up short. I'll now have to take an Anatomy-Exam this summer and pass that. A few questions.

1.) I'm .7% away from passing. Should I try and sweet-talk the block-chair into passing me?

2.) Will this fail be visible/affect my residency chances when applying? If so, how important is it?

Feel free to add anything you feel is important to this situation.

1) Definitely try. It may not be successful, but it might be. Worth a shot.

2) This depends on the way your school handles these sorts of things. At my school, this situation (remediating sub-passing grade in a course with an exam) would be a "marginal unsatisfactory" and would convert to satisfactory on successfully passing the remediation exam. I don't think it goes in the MSPE either. Other schools may handle this differently and make note of it in some way. Check with your school.

 

[masaraksh]

Is it fair to say that surg or surg subspecialties are a reach if you fail anatomy?

 

[sloop]

Is it fair to say that surg or surg subspecialties are a reach if you fail anatomy?

I don't know for sure how program directors look at this sort of thing, but I doubt this is the case. It's not an ideal circumstance to have failed anything, but if someone gets great board scores and honors their surgery rotation and sub-Is, I have a hard time thinking they're simply out of the running. Again, I could be wrong but I think these things are more important than first year anatomy.

 

[aim-agm]

1.) I'm .7% away from passing. Should I try and sweet-talk the block-chair into passing me?

2.) Will this fail be visible/affect my residency chances when applying? If so, how important is it?

I think a better request to the board chair would be to give you a pass conditional on you passing (or excelling on) the exam this summer so as to avoid having the potential blemish on your residency application. Admit that its your fault for not performing better and that you plan to demonstrate commitment and capability by performing at a higher level on the summer exam, but ask that he withhold judgement on you for now (either not giving you a grade or a pass he could turn into a fail) since you were basically within the margin of error for passing

 

[Danbo1957]

Anatomy is the easiest part of MD education. As a former IM-PD I see a student failing anatomy as disinterested, lazy, and unmotivatable, generally.

Prove me wrong...

 

[WingedOx]

I'd assume it goes on the MSPE for most schools. No residency is really going to care that you struggled in your first few months of medical school unless you make a habit of it though.

 

[SwagSandwhich]

Anatomy is the easiest part of MD education. As a former IM-PD I see a student failing anatomy as disinterested, lazy, and unmotivatable, generally.

Prove me wrong...

LOL okay bro.

 

[Danbo1957]

I'm not your bro.

People like me determine your medical future. Negative results in medical school education portend negative results in residency, especially when due to attitude. You almost have to try to fail anatomy... Gesis, man, you're paying for that education.

And good residencies are competitive amongst great candidates.

 

[pacman2018]

LOL okay bro.

you came here asking how this may affect your residency chances. a former PD gives you his honest thoughts and you're a douche about it??

 

[aim-agm]

you came here asking how this may affect your residency chances. a former PD gives you his honest thoughts and you're a douche about it??

(S)He's defensive because (s)he's being told he failed something easy and is "disinterested, lazy, and unmotivatable." Not commenting one way or the other on the accuracy of that assessment, but insulting words are singularly unproductive in online discussions.

 

[Danbo1957]

(S)... but insulting words are singularly unproductive in online discussions.

What's "insulting" is asking about residency after telling us that he failed anatomy, and why.

If he turns it around, goes AOA, and kills his board scores... well, that's too far ahead. He's still has to pass anatomy. Good grief...

 

[Moose A Moose]

(S)He's defensive because (s)he's being told he failed something easy and is "disinterested, lazy, and unmotivatable." Not commenting one way or the other on the accuracy of that assessment, but insulting words are singularly unproductive in online discussions.

What are you defending?

Rarely studied, attempted to cram, came up short.

 

[Goro]

You're in med school, not college. What's the difference between failing by .7, 70 or 70%???? You still failed to display a minimum level of competence. Don't try and grade grub else the Anatomy prof will literally throw you out of his/her office.

1.) I'm .7% away from passing. Should I try and sweet-talk the block-chair into passing me?

Yes; probably not.
2.) Will this fail be visible/affect my residency chances when applying? If so, how important is it?

Start being responsible and study. Use your mentors/tutors and most importantly, spend time in the Anatomy lab! Your school should have a learning or education center and make use of them to maximize your study style. And fer crissakes, stop cramming! You're never retain anything that way.


Feel free to add anything you feel is important to this situation.

 

[ToldYouSo]

What's "insulting" is asking about residency after telling us that he failed anatomy, and why.

I disagree with this. I can totally understand why a student who failed a class would wonder how it would affect their chances for residency. Can you please explain what exactly is "insulting" about that?

 

[ZX10R]

Anatomy is a fundamental that every doctor should know and you slacked on it? That's like an infantryman failing to put his rifle back together because he doesn't know the parts. This is your livelihood start taking it more serious. Luckily for you medical school gives many second chances so you have plenty of time to turn it around, just don't screw up a second time.

 

[SwagSandwhich]

Update:

Prof was pretty sympathetic, but said they're failing/failed people under harsher conditions, and couldn't make an exception here. It was all smiles, laughs, and reassurances, and I wasn't thrown out of any offices.

If I pass the exam this summer I will get the pass, and my initial fail will apparently not be visible when applying to residency.

For clarification, it wasn't so much the Anatomy I was sub-par at, it was the associated Dermatology and Histology/Pathology that I messed up.

In closing, I think some of you guys need to chill. I mean really, I'll be, "thrown out" of offices for discussing my grade? I'm, "disinterested, lazy, and unmotivatable", and doomed to be a lousy resident/doctor? I am "insulting" by asking for advice, and need to "prove" myself to some loser online? Get real.

To those offered helpful/realistic advice, thanks!

 

[cbrons]

Anatomy is a fundamental that every doctor should know and you slacked on it? That's like an infantryman failing to put his rifle back together because he doesn't know the parts. This is your livelihood start taking it more serious. Luckily for you medical school gives many second chances so you have plenty of time to turn it around, just don't screw up a second time.

Terrible analogy. Literally awful.

M1 anatomy is also not the easiest class at every school. Esp when taught by anthropologists who emphasize various non medical minutiae.

You cant really say that X class is in general the "easiest" class because they are different at every school.

 

[Perrotfish]

I'm an MS1 and I failed Anatomy by .7%. No good excuses, I rarely studied, attempted to cram, and came up short. I'll now have to take an Anatomy-Exam this summer and pass that. A few questions.

1.) I'm .7% away from passing. Should I try and sweet-talk the block-chair into passing me?

2.) Will this fail be visible/affect my residency chances when applying? If so, how important is it?

Feel free to add anything you feel is important to this situation.

1). Grade grubbing usually only works if you have something subjective to argue over. You can grub for more partial credit on a physics problem, but if you fail a multiple choice test you're really just below the cutoff. It's probably still worth a shot at groveling for extra credit or whatever as you have nothing to lose, but if you have something questionable to fight over (write in practical answers?) your odds are a lot better of success.

2). Yes failures hurt your chances. The more competitive the field the more they will care. You probably shut the door on Derm no matter how well you do from now on, ortho will be a lot harder though salvagable if you rock everything else, and if you don't fail actual years no community family program will care. But you failed, so now all you can do is all you can do is move forward and do the best you can.

 

[masaraksh]

1). Grade grubbing usually only works if you have something subjective to argue over. You can grub for more partial credit on a physics problem, but if you fail a multiple choice test you're really just below the cutoff. It's probably still worth a shot at groveling for extra credit or whatever as you have nothing to lose, but if you have something questionable to fight over (write in practical answers?) your odds are a lot better of success.

2). Yes failures hurt your chances. The more competitive the field the more they will care. You probably shut the door on Derm no matter how well you do from now on, ortho will be a lot harder though salvagable if you rock everything else, and if you don't fail actual years no community family program will care. But you failed, so now all you can do is all you can do is move forward and do the best you can.

Don't forget Integrated plastics, Neurosurgery, Direct IR, Rad Onc, and probably ENT/Urology

 

[ProspectiveKidd]

What are you defending?

When you criticize someone, they get defensive. Its just not a good way to make them consider your viewpoint regardless of your legitimacy. This will apply even more on the internet than it will in person.

 

[ZPakEffect]

When you criticize someone, they get defensive. Its just not a good way to make them consider your viewpoint regardless of your legitimacy. This will apply even more on the internet than it will in person.

Yes, this is why people never get criticized in residency.

 

[ProspectiveKidd]

Yes, this is why people never get criticized in residency.

You're marginalizing my statement. Criticism is necessary at times, so my point is invalid? Opie had a reaction that most people will have then they are stressesd/upset and are being criticized. Just because you aren't going to talk back to your attending doesn't mean you have to like what he's saying.

 

[ZPakEffect]

You're marginalizing my statement. Criticism is necessary at times, so my point is invalid? Opie had a reaction that most people will have then they are stressesd/upset and they are being criticized.

Criticism is indeed necessary at times. I am glad you realize that. This is one of those times. If failing a class in medical school is not an appropriate time for criticism, then what is? OP is quite evidently still very immature. He does not study, fails anatomy, then gets his feathers ruffled when he gets called on it.

 

[Rekt]

Terrible analogy. Literally awful.

M1 anatomy is also not the easiest class at every school. Esp when taught by anthropologists who emphasize various non medical minutiae.

You cant really say that X class is in general the "easiest" class because they are different at every school.

This.

Everyone agrees that anatomy at my school is one of our hardest, if not the hardest course we take.

Don't forget Integrated plastics, Neurosurgery, Direct IR, Rad Onc, and probably ENT/Urology

Wouldn't it generally be because of GPA? Not necessarily caring about anatomy in particular?

 

[jl lin]

I disagree with this. I can totally understand why a student who failed a class would wonder how it would affect their chances for residency. Can you please explain what exactly is "insulting" about that?

Basically he admitted that he didn't give much of a crap about adequately preparing. What kind of response did he think he would get here? And cramming any anatomy course, much less Gross Anatomy, is insane, unless you truly are some savant w/ an eidetic memory. There's just too much.

 

[jl lin]

Update:

Prof was pretty sympathetic, but said they're failing/failed people under harsher conditions, and couldn't make an exception here. It was all smiles, laughs, and reassurances, and I wasn't thrown out of any offices.

If I pass the exam this summer I will get the pass, and my initial fail will apparently not be visible when applying to residency.

For clarification, it wasn't so much the Anatomy I was sub-par at, it was the associated Dermatology and Histology/Pathology that I messed up.

In closing, I think some of you guys need to chill. I mean really, I'll be, "thrown out" of offices for discussing my grade? I'm, "disinterested, lazy, and unmotivatable", and doomed to be a lousy resident/doctor? I am "insulting" by asking for advice, and need to "prove" myself to some loser online? Get real.

To those offered helpful/realistic advice, thanks!

I am all for not getting insane and having some balance in life during this process of becoming a physician, but honestly, this is a pretty laissez faire attitude.

Yes. Some profs will throw you out of their office or get their BPs up. Dude, no one is throwing you out with the bath water, but you set up the scenario, which looks, shall I euphemistically say, less than reasonably motivated.

I mean getting bummed on the material happens, and anatomy w/o relating it to other things can be less than exciting for a number of folks. I wish you the best, but look back at how you set up your post in this thread. And then you go and get snide with a former PD for getting real with you. Be fair already.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

As someone who knows people who failed anatomy despite giving it their all, I can't say I have any sympathy for this dude. It's one thing to fail after working really hard - that's forgivable. It's totally different to fail after slacking off - that kind of laziness deserves nothing short of the criticisms that have been addressed here already. Also bro it's not cool to be disrespectful to your superiors, especially if they are a former program director.

 

[aim-agm]

As someone who knows people who failed anatomy despite giving it their all, I can't say I have any sympathy for this dude. It's one thing to fail after working really hard - that's forgivable. It's totally different to fail after slacking off - that kind of laziness deserves nothing short of the criticisms that have been addressed here already. Also bro it's not cool to be disrespectful to your superiors, especially if they are a former program director.

He doesn't ask for sympathy. He literally said "no good excuses" and admitted fault. I don't get why everyone is grouping up on him. He messed up, he got a rude awakening, if he learns from it there is no reason to disparage his character.

The PD director honestly doesn't deserve respect, not that that excuses being disrespectful to him/her. His/Her claim to respect comes from wisdom and experience, but he/she communicated in a way that was highly unlikely to impart said wisdom for the OP or any other participants or readers of this thread.

 

[ToldYouSo]

Basically he admitted that he didn't give much of a crap about adequately preparing. What kind of response did he think he would get here? And cramming any anatomy course, much less Gross Anatomy, is insane, unless you truly are some savant w/ an eidetic memory. There's just too much.

Right but what's "insulting" about asking?

 

[ToldYouSo]

He doesn't ask for sympathy. He literally said "no good excuses" and admitted fault.

I was literally about to say the same thing.

 

[Perrotfish]

Don't forget Integrated plastics, Neurosurgery, Direct IR, Rad Onc, and probably ENT/Urology

Plastics I agree. Rad onc and direct IR are iffy. ENT and Urology are on a level with ortho and I know of candidates who overcame a red flag to match, one failure definitely won't count someone out. Neurosurgery is less competitive than you would think, less than anything else you listed. The lifestyle is not a selling point.

Of course, if his school un-fails him if he passes a summer class then he's back to being red flag free.

 

[qw098]

he's back to being red flag free.

I hope I'm not derailing the thread, although OP's question was answered, but what do you consider to be a "red flag"?

 

[Perrotfish]

I hope I'm not derailing the thread, although OP's question was answered, but what do you consider to be a "red flag"?

Failing any class, USMLE exam, clinical block, or year. Also any felony, any institutional disciplinary action that you need to discuss on residency apps, and any gaps in your training that are not clearly justified.

Of course, some red flags are redder than others. Failing a full year, or step 1, is much more of a game changer than a single failed course or clinical block. And of course pretty much everyone in a US school does ultimately match into something if they graduate at all.

 

[jl lin]

It's insulting b/c of the cavalier way he presented his situation. It showed immaturity and no respect for the process in which he has entered. For me, the better word might have been embarrassing. Now, I bet if he set it up w/ a sense of feeling overwhelmed by the amount of material and memorization and a sense of depression and less motivation, he would have gotten a bit more sympathy.

To be sure, however, there would still be the "tough, put your big boy pants on and suck it up" responses as well, b/c there is a sort of "it's time to grow up," military-like expectation in these kinds of adult, graduate programs. A person that has had say responsible rolls in the actual workforce would understand this as well.

It's probably why some schools indeed favor non-trads. They have has to be responsible and w/o excuses or even a lot of mercy during highly stressful periods, so they often know better how to speak and behavior. The work world can be harsh and cruel and often uses the "No excuses" policy.

 

[aim-agm]

It's insulting b/c of the cavalier way he presented his situation. It showed immaturity and no respect for the process in which he has entered. For me, the better word might have been embarrassing. Now, I bet if he set it up w/ a sense of feeling overwhelmed by the amount of material and memorization and a sense of depression and less motivation, he would have gotten a bit more sympathy.

To be sure, however, there would still be the "tough, put your big boy pants on and suck it up" responses as well, b/c there is a sort of "it's time to grow up," military-like expectation in these kinds of adult, graduate programs. A person that has had say responsible rolls in the actual workforce would understand this as well.

It's probably why some schools indeed favor non-trads. They have has to be responsible and w/o excuses or even a lot of mercy during highly stressful periods, so they often know better how to speak and behavior. The work world can be harsh and cruel and often uses the "No excuses" policy.

Calm down. All he did was fail a course. Ya it's immature/irresponsible, but the only person hurt was himself. He admits he messed up, doesn't make excuses, doesn't ask for sympathy, and is primarily asking for how this is going to affect him.

Lighten up. He's just a student now, if he learns from this then great. Also, news flash: even responsible people mess up. In the real world, the question is less often "did you break it?" but "can you fix it?"

 

[CherryRedDracul]

Looking back on undergrad, when I failed a few final exams, you could definitely describe me as disinterested and lazy. Unmotivatable? That's a reach. Unmotivated is far more appropriate and accurate term. People don't get into medical school if they're unmotivatable because the term assumes he/she is a lost cause.

Or that's just how I see it.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

Anatomy is the easiest part of MD education. As a former IM-PD I see a student failing anatomy as disinterested, lazy, and unmotivatable, generally.

Prove me wrong...

I disagree. Physiology comes much more easily to me compared to anatomy. You just have to understand principles, vs endless memorization.

People have different strengths.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

This.

Everyone agrees that anatomy at my school is one of our hardest, if not the hardest course we take.

Same at our school. The professors test in 3D (Eg "The puncture wound goes through which 5 layers?") despite the fact that they teach with 2D illustrations. I'm a visual-spatial learner, but the Powerpoint pictures aren't doing it for me.

Thank goodness for the practicals. Identifying the structures tagged on cadavers is so much more straightforward.

 

[jl lin]

Calm down. All he did was fail a course. Ya it's immature/irresponsible, but the only person hurt was himself. He admits he messed up, doesn't make excuses, doesn't ask for sympathy, and is primarily asking for how this is going to affect him.

Lighten up. He's just a student now, if he learns from this then great. Also, news flash: even responsible people mess up. In the real world, the question is less often "did you break it?" but "can you fix it?"

I'm always amused when someone writes, "Calm down," when a person is attempting to answer analytically, based precisely upon the information someone (OP) has given. It's funny someone assumes someone else is anything but calm. Seriously, based on what was written, what kind of response did he actually think he was going to get? Something like, "Sure. Everything is going to be just fine. Keep up the good work!?" Really? If he turns things around, everything probably will be OK. Depending upon the field he ultimately chooses, however, the competition may well be very stiff. Why risk making it tougher on the other end?

 

[giantswing]

Classes in med school are hard in different ways. You study for anatomy different than bio chem and different for physio. And then clinicals are a whole different shake down. It takes time for people to learn what works for them in each class, and in med school theres just so little time.

 

[masaraksh]

Classes in med school are hard in different ways. You study for anatomy different than bio chem and different for physio. And then clinicals are a whole different shake down. It takes time for people to learn what works for them in each class, and in med school theres just so little time.

I disagree. Physiology comes much more easily to me compared to anatomy. You just have to understand principles, vs endless memorization.

People have different strengths.

Weird, from what I see in school the people who crushed anatomy are also the ones doing well in biochem, histo, path, etc and I don't see the people who scraped together a pass in anatomy or biochem or whatever going on to crush other preclinical classes.

 

[giantswing]

Weird, from what I see in school the people who crushed anatomy are also the ones doing well in biochem, histo, path, etc and I don't see the people who scraped together a pass in anatomy or biochem or whatever going on to crush other preclinical classes.

Smart people are smart, maybe they adapt better or quicker. My point is, the waynyou need to think about anatomy is different than you approach physio.

 

[The_Sunny_Doc]

I don't see the people who scraped together a pass in anatomy or biochem or whatever going on to crush other preclinical classes.

It's interesting to me that the students at your school are all are so open about sharing grades.