questions for non-traditional students

[mswtopsyd]

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After preparing for this for the past 2 years, I have been accepted to, and am planning to attend a well rated Psy.D. program in the fall. I am excited about the training, and furthering my career goals, but am for the first time beginning to have doubts. I am 42 years old, and will be at least 47 when I graduate. My age doesn't bother me, but after interviewing for a research position in a lab yesterday, I felt that the students and professor looked at me like I had three heads.

My questions are 1. For those of you who have gone this route, have you been able to fully integrate into your cohort, and been accepted by faculty?

2. My bigger concern is how internship sites will view me as a perspective candidate, relative to younger applicants? I have worked for 12 years as a licensed clinical social worker, and am hoping this will be seen positively. Do you think my age and experience will be a benefit or drawback?

3. Is it realistically possible to manage family, household needs and school/practicum responsibilities?

Thanks for any input for those who have "done it" successfully.

 

[docma]

From the perspective of internship programs: I think your experience will be seen, in many settings, as having great value. Maturity and clinical experience are both an advantage when coming into challenging clinical work, I believe. Our site values what MSW training and experience brings and we have often had cohorts with ages ranging from 20s to 60s. However, some sites prefer to have a more homogeneous, younger cohort and some younger training directors can feel anxious about supervising someone older than they are. Each training site has its own culture and you need to see them rather like an anthropologist would: what are the evident values? who has gone there before you? Your program should be able to coach you about that and they certainly will have had other non-traditional students who can give you advice. A key element I think is to make it clear in the interview how eager you are to learn and your openness to supervision. I have interviewed students who presented themselves in an arrogant way that made me feel that they would not want to take direction or would not join well with a younger cohort; as a result they did not get an offer. But if you present your strenghts as well as your openness to learning you should find plenty of sites with an interest in you. As to the balance of tasks: that is always work, regardless of age...but your practice to date should help.

 

[Metta]

I'm also an older student (will be 50+ when I finish my PsyD), so I've been exploring similar questions. One interesting place to check out is the APPIC Web site; each year they post statistics about applicants for the internship match, and in recent years they've been including an age breakdown. There are many successful applicants in the 40-49 y/o, 50-59 y/o, and even 60+ y/o age ranges, so it's not at all impossible. Match rates do start to drop for older applicants, but there's no way to know how much of that is due to sites favoring younger applicants, and how much is due to geographical limitations among the older applicants.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

1. For those of you who have gone this route, have you been able to fully integrate into your cohort, and been accepted by faculty?

I think it is mostly up to the person what kind of relationship they want with their cohort. Sometimes schedules will impact availability for things like study sessions (finding a babysitter on short notice, not wanting to be up late studying, etc), though I have seen non-trads integrate pretty well. More than likely a cohort group will bond early, so I'd recommend non-trads to try and integrate when you start, and then if later you choose to do your own thing, you at least have somewhat of a connection with your cohort. Going the other way will most likely be harder.

When I went back to school I had to adjust back to "school" life, which will probably be a challenge for most non-trads. I wasn't that much older than most of my cohort, but I was coming from a number of years in the corp. world, and it was a tough to have to start back at square one. I was accustomed to having a staff, setting my own schedule, and having complete control over my day. My independence was sometimes an asset and other times a bit of an obstacle...but I found a balance. You may have some of the same challenges because you functioned as an independent clinician for over a decade.

2. My bigger concern is how internship sites will view me as a perspective candidate, relative to younger applicants? I have worked for 12 years as a licensed clinical social worker, and am hoping this will be seen positively. Do you think my age and experience will be a benefit or drawback?

According to a review done by the APA Educational Directorate of the 2007 match year, the match rates drop to 70% in the age group 36-40 as compared to 80% for students 31-35. I’d interpret this cautiously because the N is most likely small and the quoted rates were only for one match year. More data is available through APPIC.


In a more general context, I think you can help/hurt your chances by how you carry yourself. If you go into your graduate training set in your beliefs, your supervisors may get frustrated and think you are being "difficult". Conversely, if you go in open to training, feedback, and mentorship....then you can make it easier for them. It is important to identify this early, because those supervisors are most likely going to write your LOR for internship. A bad letter can really hurt your chances for interviews, while 3 strong letters in addition to your previous training can help differentiate you from other applicants.

I am sure there are some sites out there who will be concerned with a non-trad. maybe not keeping up, but they are in the minority.

3. Is it realistically possible to manage family, household needs and school/practicum responsibilities?

Uhm...depends. Expect to spend a MINIMUM of 50 hours a week, and more realistically 60 hours a week for your first few years. Midterms/finals/quants/defenses will require more hours. If you don't have a spouse and/or a lot of outside help, it would be a struggle. Some people can stretch out their time (not necessarily classes, but taking an extra year to work on their research, etc).

 

[mswtopsyd]

Thanks for the replies. It is helpful to hear others thoughts. I believe that I am going in with an open attitude, eager to learn more. Hopefully, I will convey this to my cohort, professors, supervisors, etc. Just my own nerves about returning to a school setting, and fitting in, being accepted and most importantly taking the right stepts to succeed in this competitive and challenging field. I would love to hear from other non-traditional students, how you made it work.

 

[Mademoiselle8]

I also had similar concerns., My biggest concern was whether my age would affect my ability to obtain an APA accredited internship.

I ended up speaking with an APPIC board member about this. He indicated that for older students, the stats did suggest a percentage decrease for getting accepted into APA accredited internships. He said that research is being conducted to ascertain reasons, and consequently, he was not able to give me a definitive explanation. His feeling however, is that the majority of older students are less likely to relocate. His advice was that as long as you are willing to relocate for an internship, there shouldn't be a major concern.

He also suggested purchasing (which I did) "Internships in Psychology" The APAGS Workbook for Writing Successful Applications and Finding the Right Fit, by Carol Williams-Nickelson, Mitchell Prinstein and W. Gregory Keilin.

 

[psychmama]

Hi. I just wanted to say that it is possible to manage family/household while in grad school, although it is not easy to do at times.

I'm nearing the end of having done just that with a husband, three children, and a house. I did not relocate, but I do commute over an hour each way every day, and have done so for years now as I complete my doctorate. I've lowered my standards about housekeeping -- my house comes a distant third to my family relationships and school/clinical work. 🙁 That has taken some getting used to. The good news is that my family is healthy, intact, and reasonably happy. The bad news is that my time is always in high demand. I guess I must like it that way though... i wouldn't change my decision to go back to school for all of the leisure time and money in the world.

But it is tough sometimes (not gonna lie).😛

 

[mswtopsyd]

Hi Psychmama,

I think I am attending the same program that you went to. It seems to be a particularly young program. I am particularly interested in hearing from you about your experiences in the program. I also live about 45 minutes from school, and can't relocate for internships or post-docs. Thanks for any advice on the program.

 

[psychmama]

Hi Psychmama,

I think I am attending the same program that you went to. It seems to be a particularly young program. I am particularly interested in hearing from you about your experiences in the program. I also live about 45 minutes from school, and can't relocate for internships or post-docs. Thanks for any advice on the program.

Check your mail. I will be sending you a PM.🙂

 

[mswtopsyd]

message deleted

 

[psychwanabe]

1. For those of you who have gone this route, have you been able to fully integrate into your cohort, and been accepted by faculty?

I started grad school at 42 and will be 47 when I get my doctorate (assuming matching next Feb.). My cohort started as a group of 16 ranging in age from 22 to 32. Only one was married and only one had a child. They were very warm and friendly toward me. I was invited to everything and I made a point, especially in the beginning, to attend a lot of the parties, dinners, etc. that they planned. It was important to me to get to know everyone as I knew that I would be going through a very difficult journey with them. We integrated well, for the most part. I definitely have a different world view than they do. My son was a sophomore in college when I started and just a couple of years younger than them. That's a little weird. I think if you allow the relationships to develop, they can and will. It just won't be the same as with someone closer to your own age. It's a little lonely, I'm not going to lie.

As far as faculty, that was its own challenge. Many of them are more my peers than the students. Same age, married, kids are the same age, etc. They make jokes that only I get, make references to world events or TV shows that the other students don't understand. I approach my faculty in with respect, but not with the deference that the younger students show. I ask regular questions about how their new babies are doing sleeping through the night or how their daughters are adjusting to college life. I think that I am accepted because I do the work, admit my mistakes, show respect, but I am also true to myself. There has been no problem of consequence with faculty.

2. My bigger concern is how internship sites will view me as a perspective candidate, relative to younger applicants? I have worked for 12 years as a licensed clinical social worker, and am hoping this will be seen positively. Do you think my age and experience will be a benefit or drawback?

I think T4C's answer on this was spot-on. I have found in my practicum interviews that some supervisors are surprised when they see me (I don't look my age but I do look older than most grad students). But I have a self-assured manner with them that I think has been a plus. I hope it will be in internship interviews also.

3. Is it realistically possible to manage family, household needs and school/practicum responsibilities?

Yes, but damn it's hard!! I have had some pretty regular 70 hour weeks. During those times we eat out more, the laundry lays unfolded, the house is dirty, and I am so busy I honestly don't notice. I am fortunate to have a husband who has picked up a lot of my slack. Also, he's very patient and supportive. Having a partner who supports what you are doing is vital because I guarantee that you are going to be stressed, tired, and pretty irritable at times.