Quickest to open private practice

[aphistis]

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all the money should go to the kids, and somebody should make sure that the octomom isn't seeing a dime of it to spend on her selfish desires b/c she had this con-plan all made up in her head in the first place.

Programs like that actually exist. The one here is called WIC. Try googling it if you're interested.

 

[aphistis]

all the money should go to the kids, and somebody should make sure that the octomom isn't seeing a dime of it to spend on her selfish desires b/c she had this con-plan all made up in her head in the first place.

Programs like that actually exist. The one here is called WIC. Try googling it if you're interested.

 

[Daurang]

How did you manage a build out for only 80K. Was it already plumbed for a Dental office? What many sqft do you have in you office? I am looking into a start up and was under the impression that my 2800 sqft office would cost around 90$ per sqFT. So the build out will be well over 200K.

It was a 1400 sqft empty space inside a burnt out building. Actual construction was only about $40K. Plumbing for 3 chairs was the most expensive at at $20K, HVAC/electrical $7K, carpet/tile $3K, ceiling $3K, paint $1K, walls/cabinets/misc $6K.

Your $90/sqft is average for a major city (Boston, NYC, San Jose, San Diego) but can easily be brought down to $60/sqft with some shopping around or competitive bidding. If you know small nonunion subcontractors willing take the work, then the price will go down even further. Skip out on dental cabinets; use IKEA, Home Depot, custom-built cabinets and you save even more.

 

[PDizzle]

Just a little comment on the Democrat way of gett'n elected:

"A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul!"
George Bernard Shaw

If your not a conservative now, then just wait til you pay over half you income so AIG execs can get their million $$ bonuses.

 

[KOM]

Notice the irony. How about we stop breeding while there are already 6.7 Billbion Homo sapiens on earth while "the resources are limited".

Very true. Though, it appears the deadbeats in this society are doing most of it while the responsible citizens get stuck footing the bill.


Daurang - are you located more rural then?

 

[Daurang]

Large expensive union-dominated city.

There are lots of union hacks often protesting outside construction sites that don't hire them. They want to intimidate you to hire them at triple market price but virtually all their employees union insurance pay you much worse than even medicaid. Find a Hispanic or Asian smalltime self-employed contractor who can easily do the same job for 1/3 or 1/2 the price of those guys.

 

[charlestweed]

Find a Hispanic or Asian smalltime self-employed contractor who can easily do the same job for 1/3 or 1/2 the price of those guys.

I also hired a local Asian contractor. He was good and fast….the entire project was done in 3 months. This was important for me because the landlord only gave me 2 months of free rent. And like Daurang, I only spent $120k for my 5 op, 1350 sqft ortho office ($85k for the construction and $35k for chairs, air/vac, and other equipments).

 

[bucknut2009]

Large expensive union-dominated city.

There are lots of union hacks often protesting outside construction sites that don't hire them. They want to intimidate you to hire them at triple market price but virtually all their employees union insurance pay you much worse than even medicaid. Find a Hispanic or Asian smalltime self-employed contractor who can easily do the same job for 1/3 or 1/2 the price of those guys.

Just don't try to recoup any losses when the place burns down during construction and you forgot to make sure the smalltime self-employed contractor had insurance. My father is skilled tradesman in a union and their benefits are excellent (full dental, vision, med not to mention the other benefits such as tuition assistance among other programs), the workers are treated fairly, and you get to work in a safe environment. In fact, union workers enjoy a lower incidence of accidents than non-union workers.

 

[Daurang]

My father is skilled tradesman in a union and their benefits are excellent (full dental, vision, med not to mention the other benefits such as tuition assistance among other programs), the workers are treated fairly, and you get to work in a safe environment. In fact, union workers enjoy a lower incidence of accidents than non-union workers.

Unions inflate costs of things that should not cost that much. Please do not tell me that you need a union for a quality product. That is a farce. Earn your wages by working hard and making the best product, not by forcing everyone else to support your ridiculous wage demands and numerous dubious holidays and early retirement with full lifetime pension. Before attending dental school, I worked for Toyota building the Corollas and saw average Toyota workers repeatedly voting down union representation. Almost 20 years later today, Totoya plants are still mostly nonunionized but their workers morale still high and product quality still superior. Do you think Toyota would be in the same great shape the Ford, GM, Chrysler is in today if they were unionized? Do you think it's fair for these nonskilled average GM union workers to make $80/hr in wages and benefits; and can retire at 48 with full pension and benefits? or do you think it's justified for these union hacks to make $100K/year sitting there collecting tolls at a bridge? or do you think all policeman should have a paid holiday day off on 9/11 because of "9/11 Day" (as proposed by some police unions)?

 

[je ne sais quoi]

I found this thread to be informative at times, but it is so saturated with, quite frankly, some ignorant comments

it makes no sense that less than 1 percent of the nation earns more than 90 of its wealth, but we spend more time consumed with 'illegal immigrants' who pay taxes everytime they go to a store or purchase anything and often liv in subhuman conditions..circumstances are often more dynamic than the little boxes many tend to create to simplify 'epidemics'
maybe we should be more concerned with the criminally hefty pricetags in the ER that put many families in bankcruptcy instead of the percieved long lines


lets try to stay away from the racially charged comments shall we
its no secret the rich are getting richer while the poor are getting poorer so efforts to try to mend this should be recieved with a little less animosity and a little more sympathy

 

[bucknut2009]

Unions inflate costs of things that should not cost that much. Please do not tell me that you need a union for a quality product. That is a farce. Earn your wages by working hard and making the best product, not by forcing everyone else to support your ridiculous wage demands and numerous dubious holidays and early retirement with full lifetime pension. Before attending dental school, I worked for Toyota building the Corollas and saw average Toyota workers repeatedly voting down union representation. Almost 20 years later today, Totoya plants are still mostly nonunionized but their workers morale still high and product quality still superior. Do you think Toyota would be in the same great shape the Ford, GM, Chrysler is in today if they were unionized? Do you think it's fair for these nonskilled average GM union workers to make $80/hr in wages and benefits; and can retire at 48 with full pension and benefits? or do you think it's justified for these union hacks to make $100K/year sitting there collecting tolls at a bridge? or do you think all policeman should have a paid holiday day off on 9/11 because of "9/11 Day" (as proposed by some police unions)?

Unions protect workers that otherwise would not be protected. Unions keep workers from being taken advantage of and have historically increased the quality and integrity of products produced. I am not saying that there are not problems with some unions or that the system is perfect in any way but, as a collective body, unions are a good thing for America. Unions provide their employers with a voice which serves to increase morale thus productivity. Union workers receive better training which results in lower turnover=higher productivity. Union workers are more likely than their nonunion counterparts to receive health care and pension benefits. Who is paying for people's doctor visits if they cannot afford it because they have no coverage? Something like 75% of union workers have health insurance compared to only 50 percent or so non-union workers. Union membership helps raise workers' pay and narrows the income gap that minorities and women face. Unions play a role in securing labor protection legislation and rights such as safety and health, overtime, and family/medical leave and make sure those things are enforced at the workplace.

Listen, the big problem that America faces right now is that someone can buy a product made overseas by a child in a factory without any safety standards for less than a quality product made here in the USA. How are we expected to compete with that? Since we are all dentists or aspiring to be dentists, specifically how are patients supposed to get treatment if they cannot afford it or have no benefits? If they cannot pay, who is supporting the welfare program that does pay? Job, wage, and benefit protection that unions provide their workers help the economy in general. Not to say they are perfect, but without them we would be in much worse shape.

 

[Cold Front]

I also hired a local Asian contractor. He was good and fast….the entire project was done in 3 months. This was important for me because the landlord only gave me 2 months of free rent. And like Daurang, I only spent $120k for my 5 op, 1350 sqft ortho office ($85k for the construction and $35k for chairs, air/vac, and other equipments).

5 ops in 1350 sft, isn't that too tight to move around? but then again, ortho chairs don't need dry walls separating them. 😀

Just curious, how much was your working capital when you opened? (what about you Daurang?)

👍

 

[pietrodds]

I have no problem with unions respresenting workers but the reality is they protect and shelter poor performance and in some cases no performance. The domestic car companies are in the crapper because for years lazy unionized workers produced a far inferior product. Go work for a gov't agency like I have and you can witness firsthand the lengths unions go to protect employees who not only do nothing but actually create work for others to clean up. The VA medical system is an abomination due to unionized workers. Many good employees leave the VA because they can't tolerate nor are willing to do the work of others. Unions have inadvertantly protected those who feel they're entitled to a paycheck while claiming to representing the rights of employees. Look how GM unions have dragged their feet while they're on the brink of going under. Americans need to accept that the competition is not the factory down the street but rather the factory in China or India. Many corporations tired of the shenanigans of local unions have elected to bypass them altogether by shipping jobs overseas. The US needs to wise from top to bottom... that means no bonuses for blood sucking top managment when the company is running in the red and no jobs for people who believe that a job is a right and not something that you have to compete for.

 

[Daurang]

5 ops in 1350 sft, isn't that too tight to move around? but then again, ortho chairs don't need dry walls separating them. 😀

Just curious, how much was your working capital when you opened? (what about you Daurang?)

👍

It's possible to to put five chairs in a circle facing away from each other with the tool cart at the center, so you do not need much space in an ortho setting.

$40K construction, $40K equipment, $40K working capital and my brand new startup was profitable within 3 months. I now wonder where the unused working capital money went.

 

[charlestweed]

5 ops in 1350 sft, isn't that too tight to move around? but then again, ortho chairs don't need dry walls separating them. 😀

Just curious, how much was your working capital when you opened? (what about you Daurang?)

👍

My sister's GP office has 4 chairs and it is only 1200 sqft. Her office can easily handle 15-20 patients a day. When I do ortho at her office, I see 70+ patients a day. My sister and I used the same contractor. He is very good at designing medical/dental offices with limited square footage.

You are right, there are no walls between the chairs for ortho office. Here are a couple of pics of my ortho office.

 

[Daurang]

That's a very nice office. But how dare you destroy America's future by not using unionized worker!

 

[Cold Front]

charles, cool office. A nice, clean and basic office can sometimes outshine those half a mill practices.

why didn't you buy a space than rent it?

 

[robhmnt]

I have no problem with unions respresenting workers but the reality is they protect and shelter poor performance and in some cases no performance. The domestic car companies are in the crapper because for years lazy unionized workers produced a far inferior product. Go work for a gov't agency like I have and you can witness firsthand the lengths unions go to protect employees who not only do nothing but actually create work for others to clean up. The VA medical system is an abomination due to unionized workers. Many good employees leave the VA because they can't tolerate nor are willing to do the work of others. Unions have inadvertantly protected those who feel they're entitled to a paycheck while claiming to representing the rights of employees. Look how GM unions have dragged their feet while they're on the brink of going under. Americans need to accept that the competition is not the factory down the street but rather the factory in China or India. Many corporations tired of the shenanigans of local unions have elected to bypass them altogether by shipping jobs overseas. The US needs to wise from top to bottom... that means no bonuses for blood sucking top managment when the company is running in the red and no jobs for people who believe that a job is a right and not something that you have to compete for.

During the past few days, I have noticed Fox News anchors, commentators, and reporters bashing the GM and Chrysler unions all they long, and presenting them as the main reason why these companies are going bankrupt. While I dislike unions and their lobbyings, I highly doubt that unions are the reason why GM and Chrysler are on the verge of bankrupcy. Average salary of a GM worker is $32 while Toyota's average is $27. Poor management is the reason why these companies are going down, not paying the workers $5 more than what Toyota pays.

 

[ToldYouSo]

My sister’s GP office has 4 chairs and it is only 1200 sqft. Her office can easily handle 15-20 patients a day. When I do ortho at her office, I see 70+ patients a day. My sister and I used the same contractor. He is very good at designing medical/dental offices with limited square footage.

You are right, there are no walls between the chairs for ortho office. Here are a couple of pics of my ortho office.

Wow your office looks very clean, nice looking and spacious. The orthodontist I go to it is always so crowded with ppl bumping into each other but yours seems much roomier.

 

[charlestweed]

charles, cool office. A nice, clean and basic office can sometimes outshine those half a mill practices.

why didn't you buy a space than rent it?

Thank you, Cold Front.

We'd already borrowed $450k for our dental school and residency. My wife and I didn't feel comfortable borrowing more money to buy a space. Leasing was a better option for us because with didn't have to come up with a huge down payment amount. My office rent is cheap....2k/month and it only increases 2.5% every year.

It didn't take very long for both Daurang and I to make profit because we didn't spend a lot of money in the beginning.

 

[charlestweed]

Wow your office looks very clean, nice looking and spacious. The orthodontist I go to it is always so crowded with ppl bumping into each other but yours seems much roomier.

Thank you. It looks clean and spacious because you are looking at an empty office. When we have patients (between 2-6pm), my office is pretty much like what you see at your orthodontist's office.

 

[OceanDMD]

During the past few days, I have noticed Fox News anchors, commentators, and reporters bashing the GM and Chrysler unions all they long, and presenting them as the main reason why these companies are going bankrupt. While I dislike unions and their lobbyings, I highly doubt that unions are the reason why GM and Chrysler are on the verge of bankrupcy. Average salary of a GM worker is $32 while Toyota's average is $27. Poor management is the reason why these companies are going down, not paying the workers $5 more than what Toyota pays.

You're thinking here is flawed. If you listen and read about how hourly pay is calcualted, it takes into consideration BENEFITS. These benefits include healthcare and retirement for those no longer working. Chrysler/ GM hourly costs for union workers is $69. Toyota is $48. Thats quite a difference, and certainly a big reason why these companies are failing. The ironic part is the head of the UAW will not bend and make a true compromise, and as a result will continue to seal the fate of these compaines.

 

[VCUDDS]

I think it's getting harder and harder to find a good niche to open a brand new practice and be successful for any dentist let alone one fresh from D school. Each area has it's own economy/population. It's not just a matter of taking out a loan and going for it, there is also the issue of dentistry and management of dental practice, I make the argument that it's probably more prudent to work as an associate for 2-3 years and tough it out during this time (you still be making ~150k), this, in my opinion, will allow you get a good feel for what you feel comfortable with in terms of procedures, also you can learn from other dentists in practice, not only about the dentistry part but how to manage the practice, this includes the money part (fees, insurance, labs, bills...etc) all the way to staff members and the associated headaches. By that time, you will also get a feel for the area and where you want to set up shop, I worked in two different areas for dentists with different mindset, one had one practice with 2 other associates and was more high end, the other was an HMO mill with 4 practices across town with around 10 associates and 12 hyg working like bees!. Both were making a great living, albeit with different approach.
I think it's probably less risky to buy in than to open from scratch, granted you have to know what your getting into in terms of numbers, but you can always change things as you go.
Ok I think I'll stop now!
Oh and if you guys think that we are paying too much taxes, just ask someone who lives in Europe how much taxes they are paying!