Quitting Premed (Because of $$$)

[Chocolate Thief]

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I just finished my first year of college, and I've been thinking really hard about quitting premed.

I attended many pre health talks where doctors and current med students discussed the med school process, and one main point they all emphasized was how much money it takes to become a doctor:

• MCAT prep
• med school applications and secondaries
• plane tickets and hotel stays during interviews
• expensive exams during med school
• back breaking student loans
• etc.

Their talks always somehow end up focusing on how most doctors spend years wallowing in debt, which is the reality of course, but it is making me think that it would be a mistake for me to go into medicine.

My 1-working parent will be retiring soon, and after college, it will be my responsibility to financially support my parents and extended family. (Just to clarify, they're not really forcing me to do this, per se, but it has sort of been a tacit agreement ever since I was little. Plus, I feel a moral obligation to support them. tl;dr I am willing.) This will only work if I get a real paying job right after college. Spending 4 years in med school, accumulating nothing but debt, seems more and more ridiculous to me with each passing day. With med school being 4 years, and residency another 4 years (conservative estimation), that adds up to a whopping 8 years without an income.

So...would it be wise to firmly decide whether or not to cut my losses and quit premed asap before investing even more time and money into EC's and MCAT prep materials?

(Also, has anyone else here considered choosing another profession for these same reasons?)

 

[Jeffrety]

Have you looked at FAP for AMCAS and its equivalent for AACOMAS? The AAMC will also help you pay for the MCAT. Youll save a ton on apps if you get approved. In the end though: you have to spend money in order to make money my friend.

 

[hoihaie]

do you want to be a physician because you like the non-financial aspects of the profession? if you do, then you should stick with it.

take a couple years of gap years to work and save money for apps if you have to

 

[Ace Khalifa]

You get paid during residency (not much, but it IS a job). Also, it's not "choose medicine or some other ultra-lucrative career straight out of college." The world doesn't work like that. Most other jobs, especially the ones right after undergrad, do not have even comparable earning potential as a career in medicine - which takes hard work and patience to get there.

 

[allantois]

You get paid during residency (not much, but it IS a job). Also, it's not "choose medicine or some other ultra-lucrative career straight out of college." The world doesn't work like that. Most other jobs, especially the ones right after undergrad, do not have even comparable earning potential as a career in medicine - which takes hard work and patience to get there.

50k puts one at 80+ percentile of income earners.

 

[solitarius]

My 1-working parent will be retiring soon, and after college, it will be my responsibility to financially support my parents and extended family. (Just to clarify, they're not really forcing me to do this, per se, but it has sort of been a tacit agreement ever since I was little. Plus, I feel a moral obligation to support them. tl;dr I am willing.) This will only work if I get a real paying job right after college.

No one can force anyone to do anything, but your situation is regrettable.

Sounds like you have legitimate concerns, but do you have an "in" on a job that will allow you to earn enough to take care of yourself and other people?

 

[Ace Khalifa]

50k puts one at 80+ percentile of income earners.

I meant not much compared to attending physician salary. 50k isn't a lot to me.

 

[allantois]

I meant not much compared to attending physician salary. Also, your statement is horsesh**.
View attachment 193741
And the first sentence in this picture:
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50k is average at best. 80+%tile? That's rich (pun fully intended).

You are looking at average household income. An individual income of 50k is 85th percentile. I do not think that it is much compared to an attending's salary but it is still important to keep everything in perspective.

 

[AlbinoPolarBear]

50k is average at best. 80+%tile? That's rich (pun fully intended).

Statement still stands. I think you are confusing per capita income with household income.

 

[Holmwood]

I just finished my first year of college, and I've been thinking really hard about quitting premed.

I attended many pre health talks where doctors and current med students discussed the med school process, and one main point they all emphasized was how much money it takes to become a doctor:

• MCAT prep
• med school applications and secondaries
• plane tickets and hotel stays during interviews
• expensive exams during med school
• back breaking student loans
• etc.

Their talks always somehow end up focusing on how most doctors spend years wallowing in debt, which is the reality of course, but it is making me think that it would be a mistake for me to go into medicine.

My 1-working parent will be retiring soon, and after college, it will be my responsibility to financially support my parents and extended family. (Just to clarify, they're not really forcing me to do this, per se, but it has sort of been a tacit agreement ever since I was little. Plus, I feel a moral obligation to support them. tl;dr I am willing.) This will only work if I get a real paying job right after college. Spending 4 years in med school, accumulating nothing but debt, seems more and more ridiculous to me with each passing day. With med school being 4 years, and residency another 4 years (conservative estimation), that adds up to a whopping 8 years without an income.

So...would it be wise to firmly decide whether or not to cut my losses and quit premed asap before investing even more time and money into EC's and MCAT prep materials?

(Also, has anyone else here considered choosing another profession for these same reasons?)

I think you need to talk to those people who support their families while in medical school. It's doable with some careful planning and some reciprocal support from family. Try the non-trad section.

 

[allantois]

I just finished my first year of college, and I've been thinking really hard about quitting premed.

I attended many pre health talks where doctors and current med students discussed the med school process, and one main point they all emphasized was how much money it takes to become a doctor:

• MCAT prep
• med school applications and secondaries
• plane tickets and hotel stays during interviews
• expensive exams during med school
• back breaking student loans
• etc.

Their talks always somehow end up focusing on how most doctors spend years wallowing in debt, which is the reality of course, but it is making me think that it would be a mistake for me to go into medicine.

My 1-working parent will be retiring soon, and after college, it will be my responsibility to financially support my parents and extended family. (Just to clarify, they're not really forcing me to do this, per se, but it has sort of been a tacit agreement ever since I was little. Plus, I feel a moral obligation to support them. tl;dr I am willing.) This will only work if I get a real paying job right after college. Spending 4 years in med school, accumulating nothing but debt, seems more and more ridiculous to me with each passing day. With med school being 4 years, and residency another 4 years (conservative estimation), that adds up to a whopping 8 years without an income.

So...would it be wise to firmly decide whether or not to cut my losses and quit premed asap before investing even more time and money into EC's and MCAT prep materials?

(Also, has anyone else here considered choosing another profession for these same reasons?)

Just how much are you going to be able to support your parent with a 30k you'll make out of college? Many physicians seem to have lost touch with non-medical employment. While many complain about their falling reimbursements and what have you, the fact that medicine will eventually pay off more than practically any other field still holds true.

Alternatively, you can look into PA school as it lacks most of the financial concerns you expressed above.

 

[DrRedBug]

I think you need to talk to those people who support their families while in medical school. It's doable with some careful planning and some reciprocal support from family. Try the non-trad section.

I would also recommemd this... don't give up on medicine if it's your dream, just because of financial difficulties! Take a couple years off before applying so you can work and save up. I urge you to please consider very carefully and ask in the nontrad threads for their opinions too.

The big question is: can you imagine being happy doing anything else for a career?

 

[WastedTime]

Just stretch out ur loan payback to pay as little as possible and start supporting your family after graduation ... U can moonlight during residency for extra cash as well

 

[deleted480308]

OP, please elaborate on your plan to support elderly family immediately after a bachelors?

 

[LizzyM]

I just finished my first year of college, and I've been thinking really hard about quitting premed.

I attended many pre health talks where doctors and current med students discussed the med school process, and one main point they all emphasized was how much money it takes to become a doctor:

• MCAT prep
• med school applications and secondaries
• plane tickets and hotel stays during interviews
• expensive exams during med school
• back breaking student loans
• etc.

Their talks always somehow end up focusing on how most doctors spend years wallowing in debt, which is the reality of course, but it is making me think that it would be a mistake for me to go into medicine.

My 1-working parent will be retiring soon, and after college, it will be my responsibility to financially support my parents and extended family. (Just to clarify, they're not really forcing me to do this, per se, but it has sort of been a tacit agreement ever since I was little. Plus, I feel a moral obligation to support them. tl;dr I am willing.) This will only work if I get a real paying job right after college. Spending 4 years in med school, accumulating nothing but debt, seems more and more ridiculous to me with each passing day. With med school being 4 years, and residency another 4 years (conservative estimation), that adds up to a whopping 8 years without an income.

So...would it be wise to firmly decide whether or not to cut my losses and quit premed asap before investing even more time and money into EC's and MCAT prep materials?

(Also, has anyone else here considered choosing another profession for these same reasons?)

What I see here is not the OPs concern for income years from now but expenses associated with the application process as well as the perceived need to support one's parents in the short term.

What kind of support will be needed and the family's life style is a big question. If your family has been getting along on a very small annual income and the idea is that your income right out of college will more than equal what your parent was making as a low wage job, then it might be reasonable to believe that you can support your family at a standard of living to which they are accustomed but you should realize that you will be short-changing yourself and the next generation. At the other end of the spectrum, parents that own a home debt-free, have retirement income, perhaps passive income from investments or royalties, and so forth, might need more emotional support and time rather than financial assistance in navigating life after retirement and the care of dependent family members.

You might have a heart-to-heart talk with your parent(s) and explain that it will be many years before you will finish your education and be earning money to support a family. Find ways to trim your spending and increase your savings, find odd jobs or regular employment that will permit you to put away some money every month. Get a credit card and start building a credit history. If you get a card that provides loyalty rewards or "cash back" you may build up a "savings" that will provide you with at least one airline ticket on the interview trail.

The other soul searching that needs to be done is to figure out if your chances are very good based on your current academic record, your talent and your dedication or if this is a fool's errand and you are very unlikely to be admitted to any medical school. (Despite all the cheerleading that goes on here; less than 50% of those who apply are admitted anywhere and many more who are "pre-med" never make an application.) If your heart isn't in it, or it seems like you'd be among the unsuccessful applicants who would have spent money to come up empty, then maybe finding an alternate career earlier rather than later is not a bad idea.

 

[Lucca]

Considering that you're often working 80-100 hours a week which equates to less than minimum wage....it is not a lot.

You work at most 80 hours a week in most specialties. Surgery will often go to 88 and may even break some rules every now and then, perhaps rarely nearing 100. It's still way more than minimum wage. There are a number of people working two full time jobs at federal minimum wage in this country earning around 30k a year (7.25 * 80 * 52, assuming 1 week off total during the year). Even in D.C which has the highest minimum wage of 9.50 you would earn around 39-40k working 80 hours a week with two minimum wage jobs. Not to mention minimum wage jobs don't generally feed directly into 6 figure careers. Residents aren't rich but @allantois ' point still stands.

 

[Gurby]

50k puts one at 80+ percentile of income earners.

While residents technically make pretty good money, many also have $300k+ in loans hanging over their heads... 50k pre-tax isn't a whole lot when your loan debt is accruing something like 20k in post-tax dollars worth of interest each year.

I haven't looked into it all that carefully, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of residents have their net worth continue decreasing during residency if they had to take out the full cost of attendance in loans for school.

 

[gannicus89]

50k puts one at 80+ percentile of income earners.

It's not much when you consider all the debt you have to pay and rent. My brother has so little left each month, it's kind of frightening.

 

[HCHopeful]

Considering that you're often working 80-100 hours a week which equates to less than minimum wage....it is not a lot.

50K is 50K is 50K.

Making 40K-50K puts you WAY above the majority of earners in the U.S. And there are other jobs that work you 60-80 hours with that 30K-40K.

You always talk about "checking your privilege." This is a case where you need to realize (and probably do) that 50K, regardless of hours, is a nice sum of money to have for a LOT of people.

 

[panda16]

Your parent would likely appreciate your enhanced income as a physician, even if you have to wait 8 years for it. However, that's under the implication that your parent is healthy and would, bad as it sounds, live to see that income 8 years down the line.

If it is your dream, I would not let the financial implications deter you from a career in medicine.

 

[Goro]

SDNers in this position should realize that as a med student, one has to be a bit selfish; you can't support your family, period. You can't run home every time Nana/Abuela/Ajima has chest pains, either.



My 1-working parent will be retiring soon, and after college, it will be my responsibility to financially support my parents and extended family. (Just to clarify, they're not really forcing me to do this, per se, but it has sort of been a tacit agreement ever since I was little. Plus, I feel a moral obligation to support them. tl;dr I am willing.) This will only work if I get a real paying job right after college. Spending 4 years in med school, accumulating nothing but debt, seems more and more ridiculous to me with each passing day.

 

[deleted480308]

I'm not saying that I wouldn't be grateful to make that much money, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying for the crazy amount of work you put in to get to that position, $12 an hour to do the same things that an attending does in many cases is less than adequate compensation. Of course, I realize this is the nature of medicine so I really shouldn't complain, but alas it still sucks. My PI is an interventional cardio fellow who is almost 34 and has a wife and 3 kids to support, and is making 35k a year. The whole "check your privilege" shouldn't apply here as the case you're referring to had to do with a user generalizing all poor people to "be the most entitled." Anyway, I digress.

I'm going to call bull on a interventional cardioo fellow making 35.....program salaries are public knowledge, so feel free to link the program

 

[doc_mcd94]

50K is 50K is 50K.

Making 40K-50K puts you WAY above the majority of earners in the U.S. And there are other jobs that work you 60-80 hours with that 30K-40K.

You always talk about "checking your privilege." This is a case where you need to realize (and probably do) that 50K, regardless of hours, is a nice sum of money to have for a LOT of people.

50K salary puts you way above the majority of earners in the US, but adding 250K in debt to the picture puts you way below the majority of earners in the US

 

[deleted480308]

I'm just going by what he's told me personally, we've been working together for the past three years so I'm not really sure that he'd lie to me. I'm uneducated on resident salaries so I can't really comment any further. But yeah it's at an academic medicine program at a public state school.

they are likely exageratingn.....you can verify for yourself on the program website, the salaries will be listed

 

[whitemagic]

they are likely exageratingn.....you can verify for yourself on the program website, the salaries will be listed

Interesting, did not know this. Thanks!

 

[mimelim]

You get paid during residency (not much, but it IS a job). Also, it's not "choose medicine or some other ultra-lucrative career straight out of college." The world doesn't work like that. Most other jobs, especially the ones right after undergrad, do not have even comparable earning potential as a career in medicine - which takes hard work and patience to get there.

50k puts one at 80+ percentile of income earners.

You work at most 80 hours a week in most specialties. Surgery will often go to 88 and may even break some rules every now and then, perhaps rarely nearing 100. It's still way more than minimum wage. There are a number of people working two full time jobs at federal minimum wage in this country earning around 30k a year (7.25 * 80 * 52, assuming 1 week off total during the year). Even in D.C which has the highest minimum wage of 9.50 you would earn around 39-40k working 80 hours a week with two minimum wage jobs. Not to mention minimum wage jobs don't generally feed directly into 6 figure careers. Residents aren't rich but @allantois ' point still stands.

50K is 50K is 50K.

Making 40K-50K puts you WAY above the majority of earners in the U.S. And there are other jobs that work you 60-80 hours with that 30K-40K.

You always talk about "checking your privilege." This is a case where you need to realize (and probably do) that 50K, regardless of hours, is a nice sum of money to have for a LOT of people.

A few things.

#1 50k/year may be a lot compared to others, but there are a lot of strings attached to it.
#2 Remember that most labor protections in place do not apply to residents.
#3 You match into a job and because of how the system is setup, it isn't exactly hard for people to end up in different cities than families or in places with relatively high costs of living.
#4 You are going to be busy. Obviously it depends on you and it depends on your program, but I didn't work less than 80 hours/week for the first two years of my residency. Most weeks were 100+ hours/week. Clinical duties, studying, reading up on cases, preparing presentations, etc. Using as accurate numbers as I could from my own hours log, I made a $2-3 less per hour than the baggers at the local grocery store. (I know because they were advertising hourly rates). Granted, my benefits are quite good, but if you really want to talk hourly rates, compatible to working at a grocery store.
#5 For many specialties/programs it is impractical to live further away from the hospital, driving up cost of living.
#6 You have debt. My wife and I owe over half a million dollars between student loans, mortgage, and car. You don't want to know how much of our pay checks goes toward paying that back. On the other hand, because of our jobs/career paths, banks were lining up to offer us zero down payment mortgages with very attractive interest rates.
#7 The reality for many medical students is that they will not be in a good position to support others (family) for many years after graduating from undergrad. Obviously people that have families that help with tuition and those that get scholarships are in a completely different boat, but that is not the OP's case.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

Thank you, @mimelim.

Also, "50k is 50k is 50k" is one of the most asinine things I've ever read. There is a huge difference between earning 50k with zero debt and earning 50k with *insert X amount here* debt.

 

[thegooddoctor2015]

There are plenty of well paying allied health jobs that you get into a lot faster than medicine and pay is good, and always good jobs

 

[HCHopeful]

Thank you, @mimelim.

Also, "50k is 50k is 50k" is one of the most asinine things I've ever read. There is a huge difference between earning 50k with zero debt and earning 50k with *insert X amount here* debt.

You will not be earning that 50K for your lifetime. The 50K is not your "pay back loan" money. Your 180K salary down the road is.

That other worker, on the other hand, will make 50K (maybe 70K if lucky) for the rest of their working lives.

50K is 50K is 50K.

You are right in saying that earning 50K while having debt is certainly more difficult, but physicians have much greater earning potential. Physicians whine and whine about having debt to pay back, but yet they eventually do and then make 3-10 times the amount of the median HOUSEHOLD income. Dear God. Come on.

I have no doubt it's rough living with 200K+ debt on a 50K salary, but your life down the road will be much better than that other 50K worker who doesn't have debt.

You can't give a snapshot of 5 years (residency) to describe what is "fair." I think making 50K for 3-7 years with the potential to earn 180-400K down the line is a very fair trade off.

 

[gettheleadout]

You will not be earning that 50K for your lifetime. The 50K is not your "pay back loan" money. Your 180K salary down the road is.

To give some perspective here, @mimelim may have worked 80-100 hour weeks during the first years of his residency, but not only did he self-select into that sort of brutal surgical training, but his "pay back loan" money will be several times the $180k of the typical PCP.

 

[mimelim]

You will not be earning that 50K for your lifetime. The 50K is not your "pay back loan" money. Your 180K salary down the road is.

That other worker, on the other hand, will make 50K (maybe 70K if lucky) for the rest of their working lives.

50K is 50K is 50K.

You are right in saying that earning 50K while having debt is certainly more difficult, but physicians have much greater earning potential. Physicians whine and whine about having debt to pay back, but yet they eventually do and then make 3-10 times the amount of the median HOUSEHOLD income. Dear God. Come on.

I have no doubt it's rough living with 200K+ debt on a 50K salary, but your life down the road will be much better than that other 50K worker who doesn't have debt.

You can't give a snapshot of 5 years (residency) to describe what is "fair." I think making 50K for 3-7 years with the potential to earn 180-400K down the line is a very fair trade off.

To give some perspective here, @mimelim may have worked 80-100 hour weeks during the first years of his residency, but not only did he self-select into that sort of brutal surgical training, but his "pay back loan" money will be several times the $180k of the typical PCP.

None of this has anything to do with the OP's situation or questions. The issue is, over the next 15 years, how realistic is it to support family? During medical school, zero income, zero support toward family. During residency, 50k salary, significant loans, significant limitations on your time. So, that is 7-11 years of limited/minimal support going toward family.

Physicians get paid on the back-end very well. Nobody disputes this. But, that doesn't make a ton of difference if the time frame of concern is the next 10-15 years.


Regarding the off topic stuff...
The issue with getting paid less than a bagger at the store is that most people would value my work at a much higher rate. To do my job as a PGY2 onward, hospitals hire NPs/PAs at 4 times the salary (double salary, half the hours). That rubs a lot of people the wrong way. (There are a lot of reasons for this and it has nothing to do with "fairness" of future compensation, some are good, others not so much).

Residents work hard across the board. EM residents may work less than others on average, but have particularly brutal shifts. Even the Peds residents that I know put in 65-70 hours/week.

 

[HCHopeful]

None of this has anything to do with the OP's situation or questions. The issue is, over the next 15 years, how realistic is it to support family? During medical school, zero income, zero support toward family. During residency, 50k salary, significant loans, significant limitations on your time. So, that is 7-11 years of limited/minimal support going toward family.

Physicians get paid on the back-end very well. Nobody disputes this. But, that doesn't make a ton of difference if the time frame of concern is the next 10-15 years.


Regarding the off topic stuff...
The issue with getting paid less than a bagger at the store is that most people would value my work at a much higher rate. To do my job as a PGY2 onward, hospitals hire NPs/PAs at 4 times the salary (double salary, half the hours). That rubs a lot of people the wrong way. (There are a lot of reasons for this and it has nothing to do with "fairness" of future compensation, some are good, others not so much).

Residents work hard across the board. EM residents may work less than others on average, but have particularly brutal shifts. Even the Peds residents that I know put in 65-70 hours/week.

Yeah sorry. My discussion wasn't directed at OP. His situation is completely separate from what I'm discussing.

I completely understand your argument and agree residents are under compensated. My only argument is that 50K is still a nice chunk of change to have, and many people would rather be in this position (even with the debt).

I guess I'm just trying to remind some people that we often view anything under 100K as not a lot of money. We are very fortunate to have the opportunity to potentially make a physician's salary, and it irks me when people take it for granted.

I appreciate your calm, well thought out response. You have an uncanny way of seeing both sides of the picture.

 

[doc05]

how do you plan to support your parents on the meager income you can expect right out of college?

 

[Petrichor1]

Spending 4 years in med school, accumulating nothing but debt, seems more and more ridiculous to me with each passing day. With med school being 4 years, and residency another 4 years (conservative estimation), that adds up to a whopping 8 years without an income.

You start earning in residency (although the amount of a BS degree holder in life sciences). Quite frankly, that is still better than a LOT of people out there that have more than BS degree and not an MD.
I am taking 2 gap years off because of similar reasons. I thought finishing med school would be better if I did it quickly by going traditional route but it's far better, I realize, to have some stability. I suffered a lot under being financially unfit to pay for college and I promised myself that I would never push myself under such terrible odds; not only did I not perform my best but the sad part was that I lost a lot of confidence. Humbleness and down-to-earthness is aplenty now but I could have done without especially compared to how healthy I used to be.
If you don't see yourself liking medicine, that is one thing, but I think you should consider gap years and possibly pursue a more practical degree so you have a job. I had to switch my field due to this reason and though I felt I was not as strong in clinical majors as I am a big fan of quantitative sciences, I sucked it up because I didn't have an option and quite frankly it's better than seeking sympathy from outsiders just because you were a starry-eyed premed that wanted to do what other kids that could afford to pursue non-practical majors could. This way you can keep your medical dream and also support your parents. Again, I think you should take the gap years, produce links at your state school. This way you will surely have someone you know in the adcom and try getting there for the cheapest tuition without scholarships taken into account. It's not a gaurantee and you'll spend some time soul-searching but when things have to run their course you have to let them until everything sets right because when it settles, it settles right for the best and stays there. As LizzyM mentioned, don't shortchange your future. Once your parents are gone, you will be sitting with your decisions and while at the time it seemed right later on you will blame yourself for not trying harder. You don't have to be entirely selfish but you do have to live a life that doesn't repeat the mistakes of your predecessors. No one can leave parents just like that and it is very difficult but make sure you leave on a good note and rid that guilt by helping them a little. Getting a job and staying at parent's home would mean a full salary going towards your parents' retirement savings. A few years of that will definitely be more than enough for the 4 years you head off for medical school. You just have to be extremely wise about your purchases. Like don't stop buying food and live on crackers but rather search good deals and sales. You can't live a life buying $5 latte in the morning when you can brew your own or pack your lunch. Not only will this benefit you in the short run but it is a good habit to get into to prevent from shortchanging your own savings as you run into debt.

 

[Chocolate Thief]

how do you plan to support your parents on the meager income you can expect right out of college?

I often talk to the RNs, CNAs, phlebotomists, etc. at my school's hospital during my volunteer shifts, and they've given me a lot of adivce regarding other potential careers in health.

My plan B would be to work night shifts as a phlebotomist (decent pay) while doing a 1-year accelerated BSN program.

 

[Gandyy]

I often talk to the RNs, CNAs, phlebotomists, etc. at my school's hospital during my volunteer shifts, and they've given me a lot of adivce regarding other potential carreers in health.

My plan B would be to work night shifts as a phlebotomist (decent pay) while doing a 1-year accelerated BSN program.

I"ve worked as a phlebotomist... its not decent pay.. its pretty awful usually.

 

[deleted577188]

Scary money don't make no money.

 

[goldy490]

I often talk to the RNs, CNAs, phlebotomists, etc. at my school's hospital during my volunteer shifts, and they've given me a lot of adivce regarding other potential carreers in health.

My plan B would be to work night shifts as a phlebotomist (decent pay) while doing a 1-year accelerated BSN program.

You may be talking to people experienced in the field who have managed to make a good salary after 15 years of showing their worth. Remember almost no one makes a ton right out of college. Working nights while doing an accelerated BSN program sounds nearly impossible too.

I have a friend who got an Econ Bio Double Major. After college, he worked for EPIC...They pay college grads extremely well (like 80k starting), and are easy jobs to get if you get good grades in pre med classes. He made alot of money to help ease financial burdens before returning for medical school.

As an aside, MCAT can be prepped for for almost free using online resources, and the price of the test itself is negligible in the grand scheme of things.

Bottom line, don't sell yourself short if you want to be a doctor. If you can see yourself somewhere else, go there. But if you've got what it takes to be a steak chef, don't settle for flipping burgers.

 

[JustaDO]

If you really wantto be a physician, and are concerned so much about debt, consider the military.

 

[LizzyM]

how do you plan to support your parents on the meager income you can expect right out of college?

Because the meager income you can expect right out of college may be more than a student's parent is making as a receptionist, a food service worker, or a janitor. At $12/hour a full time worker makes just under $25K if they get paid vacation and paid holidays and paid sick time, which some do not.

There are some parents who are just scraping by due to language barriers, lack of education, chronic illness which limits the type or amount of work they can do, or due to downsizing. You can't assume that every family is living on a upper middle class salary. Many families get by on far less.

 

[allantois]

Because the meager income you can expect right out of college may be more than a student's parent is making as a receptionist, a food service worker, or a janitor. At $12/hour a full time worker makes just under $25K if they get paid vacation and paid holidays and paid sick time, which some do not.

There are some parents who are just scraping by due to language barriers, lack of education, chronic illness which limits the type or amount of work they can do, or due to downsizing. You can't assume that every family is living on a upper middle class salary. Many families get by on far less.

And unfortunately the described scenarios are exactly why poor people stay poor for generations. The way out of this circle is by getting a good education.

 

[Oh_Gee]

I just finished my first year of college, and I've been thinking really hard about quitting premed.

I attended many pre health talks where doctors and current med students discussed the med school process, and one main point they all emphasized was how much money it takes to become a doctor:

• MCAT prep
• med school applications and secondaries
• plane tickets and hotel stays during interviews
• expensive exams during med school
• back breaking student loans
• etc.

Their talks always somehow end up focusing on how most doctors spend years wallowing in debt, which is the reality of course, but it is making me think that it would be a mistake for me to go into medicine.

My 1-working parent will be retiring soon, and after college, it will be my responsibility to financially support my parents and extended family. (Just to clarify, they're not really forcing me to do this, per se, but it has sort of been a tacit agreement ever since I was little. Plus, I feel a moral obligation to support them. tl;dr I am willing.) This will only work if I get a real paying job right after college. Spending 4 years in med school, accumulating nothing but debt, seems more and more ridiculous to me with each passing day. With med school being 4 years, and residency another 4 years (conservative estimation), that adds up to a whopping 8 years without an income.

So...would it be wise to firmly decide whether or not to cut my losses and quit premed asap before investing even more time and money into EC's and MCAT prep materials?

(Also, has anyone else here considered choosing another profession for these same reasons?)

consider computer science. you still have plenty of time if you just finished your first year

 

[goldy490]

This may just be me failing to check my privilege, but why does the OP need to support his parents AND extended family straight out of college? I understand that they may not be able to financially support him, but to expect him to financially support several people as a 22 year old seems kind of insane even for a family where barriers to employment may be significant.

 

[22031 Alum]

This may just be me failing to check my privilege, but why does the OP need to support his parents AND extended family straight out of college? I understand that they may not be able to financially support him, but to expect him to financially support several people as a 22 year old seems kind of insane even for a family where barriers to employment may be significant.

There are many, many families out there for whom one member attending college is perceived as the "ticket" to a better financial status for everyone else. Statistically, kids from those families are less likely to end up on the AP classes/pre-professional/professional track, so maybe you haven't been exposed to them. It's not even a cultural thing like in immigrant families only. Growing up in a rural area I've seen the most generic white families whose only retirement plan is Johnny getting a degree.

(And despite what people say about millenials, there are lots of places where it is the norm to support yourself starting at 18. Let alone 22.)

 

[goldy490]

There are many, many families out there for whom one member attending college is perceived as the "ticket" to a better financial status for everyone else. Statistically, kids from those families are less likely to end up on the AP classes/pre-professional/professional track, so maybe you haven't been exposed to them. It's not even a cultural thing like in immigrant families only. Growing up in a rural area I've seen the most generic white families whose only retirement plan is Johnny getting a degree.

(And despite what people say about millenials, there are lots of places where it is the norm to support yourself starting at 18. Let alone 22.)

I totally agree, and understand the majority of people are expected to support themselves after they turn 18, and that they may be expected to support their parents some day. I was more confused by the notion that his parent plans on retiring and leaving the financial burden of totally supporting 3+ people on a kid who just finished college. Seems a little early to me is all. But again, its probably just that I've had almost no exposure to rural America.

 

[22031 Alum]

I totally agree, and understand the majority of people are expected to support themselves after they turn 18, and that they may be expected to support their parents some day. I was more confused by the notion that his parent plans on retiring and leaving the financial burden of totally supporting 3+ people on a kid who just finished college. Seems a little early to me is all. But again, its probably just that I've had almost no exposure to rural America.

Even the concept of calling someone who is 22 with a college degree a "kid" is foreign in circles where most people enter the workforce and start having adult responsibilities at age 18. In any case, maybe the parent in question is older or ill and would've retired even earlier if the means had been there. That's just speculation though- maybe they're young and healthy and think the family will be well off now that someone has a degree.

 

[Psai]

man look at all these super generous premeds with their willingness to work for 50k and moonlight and all that to help people
guaranteed not a single one of you will accept a 50k salary as an attending and justify it as okay because some people make minimum wage
not sure why that comes up all the time, it's not like we're going through years of hard work and starting to make money in our 30s so that we can get paid nibblets

i'm looking at well over 6 figures in debt already and i'm not even done with school yet. it is only getting worse from here. my tuition this year is probably 150% of what it was the year before i started. you guys can work for nothing all you want and tell me about how other people have it worse but it's not relevant to me at all, especially when you haven't put in any hard work or sacrifice

 

[HCHopeful]

man look at all these super generous premeds with their willingness to work for 50k and moonlight and all that to help people
guaranteed not a single one of you will accept a 50k salary as an attending and justify it as okay because some people make minimum wage
not sure why that comes up all the time, it's not like we're going through years of hard work and starting to make money in our 30s so that we can get paid nibblets

i'm looking at well over 6 figures in debt already and i'm not even done with school yet. it is only getting worse from here. my tuition this year is probably 150% of what it was the year before i started. you guys can work for nothing all you want and tell me about how other people have it worse but it's not relevant to me at all, especially when you haven't put in any hard work or sacrifice

Lol I'm sorry having the opportunity to attend medical school is too rough for you. You DEFINITELY have it worse than those in true financial distress. 🙄

 

[Psai]

who are you?
the only people who are so dismissive and cocksure of themselves while spouting bull**** phrases like "check your privilege" are people who haven't actually gone through poverty themselves
people who have lived in poverty don't have that smug sense of moral superiority from pretending to think about the less fortunate or "underserved" as premeds call it because actual poor people were too busy being poor

 

[Affiche]

and one main point they all emphasized was how much money it takes to become a doctor:

• MCAT prep
• med school applications and secondaries
• plane tickets and hotel stays during interviews
• expensive exams during med school
• back breaking student loans
• etc.

-You don't have to spend a lot of money to prep for the MCAT. I prepped with used books off ebay for $60.
-FAP. You don't pay for your first 15 applications or secondaries. Essentially, you can apply for free.
-No one forces you to apply to schools that are beyond driving distance.