racially insensitive remark, grounds for complaint?

[RocketSurgeon]

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I think the OP needs to chill out a bit and choose his battles. He's just a volunteer doing some inane work like pushing carts and stocking cabinets, if he complained to his boss about the nurse, he would have entered into a nasty battle of "he said she said" and guess who is going to keep their job? The person that is harder to replace which will be the licensed nurse.

From a HR point of view, it's easier to get rid of an easily replaceable and apparently quarrelsome volunteer than a paid staff that in the past has never had any incidents. The OP needs to learn one thing about medicine: a bad employee is replaced sooner or later. You can suggest an under performing coworker doctor or nurse that you found a note they made and screwed up politely or suggest them some medical books to read if you find a doctor screwed up an obvious diagnosis, but no bad mouthing and back stabbing unless there's a really damn good reason for it. Even if you don't get fired your job will probably become a living hell until you get fired or quit.

Hmm probably not HR takes this stuff seriously and the OP will not be involved in the proceedings. Most likely the nurse will get a 5 minute meeting/warning. IMO given that the person performing the action is a well-educated health care professional it was inappropriate and should be reported. You can report it anonymously.

 

[McPhee]

Why would you "report" her? What is that going to do? Get her in trouble? (Maybe.) Is it going to fix her behavior? (No.) Does it reflect poorly on your interpersonal/conflict resolution skills? (Yes.) If he is going to voice his opinion, it needs to be directly to her and, to be most effective, immediately following the incident. Afterward and from another person introduces all sorts of unnecessary drama, confusion, misunderstanding, etc.

OP, I would personally let it go at this point and address it immediately after if it occurs again. Do so in private with the nurse and in a professional manner with both confidence and humility.

It might fix her behaviour. Probalby not the underlying feelings, but perhaps her behaviour.

Reporting an incident like this in no way reflects poorly on one's interpersonal/ conflict resolution skills.

The last bit of your post is golden. "Tolerate bad stuff once, but make sure to report it the next time." 😎

 

[Ashley1989]

Hmm probably not HR takes this stuff seriously and the OP will not be involved in the proceedings. Most likely the nurse will get a 5 minute meeting/warning. IMO given that the person performing the action is a well-educated health care professional it was inappropriate and should be reported. You can report it anonymously.

First, at least at my work, HR is involved for serious accusations like sexual harassment, time fraud, and things that are blatantly racist where there are no discrepancies like there will be with this comment. Something like this should be reported to the charge nurse or manager the day it happened if the OP didn't want to say something themselves, but anything more would look like overkill and isn't following the chain of command.

Second, IMO, part of being on a functional team is being assertive with each other and honest about your feelings. That builds trust that someone can mess up and get called out, rather then messing up and being thrown to the wolves. Going and reporting it anonymously to HR isn't beneficial because it is teaching the OP to not speak up and is going make the nurse think someone is out to get them because the comment really wasn't so blatant that HR needed to be involved. The nurse will also most likely think back and realize that everyone in the room would've spoken up if it offended them enough to go to HR except for one person, you. Save yourself the problems and just speak up next time, no one likes a tattle tale but almost everyone can rationalize the actions of someone who is respectful yet frank about something that bothers them. You don't want to be the person who people cant trust to be around, someone they're scared will be sneaking in corners and see something they don't like and instead of giving the person the courtesy of dealing with the problem, they passive aggressively go above everyone's heads and goes straight to HR.

Lastly, I've been wondering this past day or so how many people here have actually worked at a real job for more then a couple of months or a summer. It seems like this whole view of the "professional" world is skewed, like getting brownie points from employers for simply being on time and being late every day to your job being justifiable, to going all the way to HR for an offhanded comment made like a week ago. At least in the jobs that I've had it's very different, and if everyone behaved like this by reporting to HR any questionable comment they heard instead of dealing with it themselves, we would really not get any work done.

 

[music2doc]

It might fix her behaviour. Probalby not the underlying feelings, but perhaps her behaviour.

Reporting an incident like this in no way reflects poorly on one's interpersonal/ conflict resolution skills.

The last bit of your post is golden. "Tolerate bad stuff once, but make sure to report it the next time." 😎

OP has already passed the point of optimal effectiveness. If he hoped for a change, it would have been best to speak w the offender ASAP in private but since that's no longer possible, the next time it occurs would be best. It might been a one-time slip up anyway, so why go create trouble for this RN? Look for PATTERNS of bx. Honestly, unless this is likely to cost the company in some way, they're not going to care that much and it'll be easier just to get the volunteer out of the way. The primary motivator here is going to finances. Does training a new employee cost less than the risk * consequences?

First, at least at my work, HR is involved for serious accusations like sexual harassment, time fraud, and things that are blatantly racist where there are no discrepancies like there will be with this comment. Something like this should be reported to the charge nurse or manager the day it happened if the OP didn't want to say something themselves, but anything more would look like overkill and isn't following the chain of command.

Second, IMO, part of being on a functional team is being assertive with each other and honest about your feelings. That builds trust that someone can mess up and get called out, rather then messing up and being thrown to the wolves. Going and reporting it anonymously to HR isn't beneficial because it is teaching the OP to not speak up and is going make the nurse think someone is out to get them because the comment really wasn't so blatant that HR needed to be involved. The nurse will also most likely think back and realize that everyone in the room would've spoken up if it offended them enough to go to HR except for one person, you. Save yourself the problems and just speak up next time, no one likes a tattle tale but almost everyone can rationalize the actions of someone who is respectful yet frank about something that bothers them. You don't want to be the person who people cant trust to be around, someone they're scared will be sneaking in corners and see something they don't like and instead of giving the person the courtesy of dealing with the problem, they passive aggressively go above everyone's heads and goes straight to HR.

Lastly, I've been wondering this past day or so how many people here have actually worked at a real job for more then a couple of months or a summer. It seems like this whole view of the "professional" world is skewed, like getting brownie points from employers for simply being on time and being late every day to your job being justifiable, to going all the way to HR for an offhanded comment made like a week ago. At least in the jobs that I've had it's very different, and if everyone behaved like this by reporting to HR any questionable comment they heard instead of dealing with it themselves, we would really not get any work done.

Good points.

 

[biomaj]

No matter what anyone says on here, you determine your own level of comfortability in the remarks that people make about your race. If you feel something was racially insensitive (which I agree, the nurse was in the wrong) then that is 100% your porogative. With that said, as someone who gets beef myself based on my minority situation, you also have to understand that we live in a very dumb world. Some people are not educated on why the things they say effect certain people & what they can lead to. I don't think anything should be said because it wasn't directly to you & like I mentioned earlier only you determine your level of comfortability (hint the patient may not feel as threatened). But if something like that is said to you, about you & you know, etc. I think it's a great thing to stand up for yourself & voice the fact that it is not okay to say those things about you, & if it happens again you'll be bringing it to the attention of someone above that person. I think if you're polite, most people are completely unaware of what they have said & are sorry. Some are not, but that is the tough cookies part about our world. Some people do bad things & just don't care.

 

[Disinence2]

Get over it and learn to have a sense of humor.

Your a volunteer, you don't have to be there, in my opinion you shouldn't even be aloud to file a complaint, even if someone was directly racist towards you. People don't have to be nice to you just cause you are there.

 

[La Presse]

Get over it and learn to have a sense of humor.

Your a volunteer, you don't have to be there, in my opinion you shouldn't even be aloud to file a complaint, even if someone was directly racist towards you. People don't have to be nice to you just cause you are there.

😱

Wow. Bad experiences?

 

[SpecterGT260]

Get over it and learn to have a sense of humor.

Your a volunteer, you don't have to be there, in my opinion you shouldn't even be aloud to file a complaint, even if someone was directly racist towards you. People don't have to be nice to you just cause you are there.

*You're
*Allowed

 

[qwe7791]

Personally, I would not worry about it much. I'm sure there were people around her at the time (other nurses, volunteers, etc) who saw her imitations and had identical reactions as yours. But just worry about yourself. Karma will get her eventually.

 

[Ajax16]

Let it sliiddeeeee... this coming from a black guy

 

[punkedoutriffs]

Let it sliiddeeeee... this coming from a black guy

Of Harold and Kumar fame?

 

[HeronsBeak]

Asian here. I wouldn't even think twice about it. It sounds like there was no malice intended whatsoever in the comment.

To be completely honest, I use self-deprecating humor all the time with my friends. I'll walk into a room, wave, and say "herro!"

You sound like a fun person to be around. I personally dislike all the PC BS that PTA types like to spout. I saw an article today on a guy of middle eastern descent who wore a shirt that said, "terrorists will kill us all," into an airport. I found it hilarious and a well placed commentary on profiling, obviously the TSA felt different. Some people just have a stick up their ass.

 

[Brando989]

You sound like a fun person to be around. I personally dislike all the PC BS that PTA types like to spout. I saw an article today on a guy of middle eastern descent who wore a shirt that said, "terrorists will kill us all," into an airport. I found it hilarious and a well placed commentary on profiling, obviously the TSA felt different. Some people just have a stick up their ass.

Just out of curiosity what is your ethnicity?

 

[Yonko Shanks]

 

[45408]

Just out of curiosity what is your ethnicity?

Because if he's white, his opinion matters less?

 

[HeronsBeak]

Just out of curiosity what is your ethnicity?

I'm white, my best friend in high school was pakistani. We poked fun at each other all the time. Perhaps my whiteness limits my view, but depending on who you hang out with, white is just as easy to make fun of, and I'm fine with it. I like standup, and anyone who can make fun of everyone, including themself is always fun to see.

 

[SpecterGT260]

The response "my friend was______" needs to not be a thing.

 

[Zbtb7]

I'm drifting onto the premed forums b/c the predental side is pretty quiet.

OP- here's my suggestion: Let it slide=>learn to channel your rage to motivate you into getting into medical school=>take more poo from nurses=>become an attending=>dookie on white nurses to your heart's content=>???=>profit.

 

[Brando989]

I'm white, my best friend in high school was pakistani. We poked fun at each other all the time. Perhaps my whiteness limits my view, but depending on who you hang out with, white is just as easy to make fun of, and I'm fine with it. I like standup, and anyone who can make fun of everyone, including themself is always fun to see.

Your friend is Pakistani so therefore you have the capacity to understand the emotional strain of a racist remark? Your friend being Pakistani clearly hasn't increased your empathy or awareness of these issues. Usually the people that say, "I'm tired of all this PC bull****", are white and are too lazy to even attempt to carefully monitor their own words and actions towards people of different ethnic groups. That's just been my own observation.

 

[Brando989]

Because if he's white, his opinion matters less?

His opinion is equally valuable to anyone else. His perspective, however, might be much more limited. He doesn't seem to understand the issue at all.

 

[SpecterGT260]

His opinion is equally valuable to anyone else. His perspective, however, might be much more limited. He doesn't seem to understand the issue at all.

that is actually a pretty good response.

 

[theWhat]

His opinion is equally valuable to anyone else. His perspective, however, might be much more limited. He doesn't seem to understand the issue at all.

👍

 

[Eiot]

To be honest I'm rather sick of all this ultra-sensitive crap. People spend more time complaining about their injustice than trying to better the world themselves. As we are in America, we have quite literally some of the best tolerance ever when compared to not only other countries but also to human history as a whole. For example, I just got back from the Ukraine where black people are referred to SOLELY as the "n word". I even witnessed a Ukrainian man pulling his wife out of a taxi cab after noticing the driver was black.

We have it good here and to be frank, the most racist beings I've ever met have happened to be Asian. That aside, I think everybody needs to grow thicker skin in general. People aren't always going to like you for some reason or another... sometimes for things you can't even control. I'd rather have a world of people speaking their minds than one where everyone wears a mask trying to please and tiptoe around others. Maybe that's just me.

 

[theWhat]

To be honest I'm rather sick of all this ultra-sensitive crap. People spend more time complaining about their injustice than trying to better the world themselves. As we are in America, we have quite literally some of the best tolerance ever when compared to not only other countries but also to human history as a whole. For example, I just got back from the Ukraine where black people are referred to SOLELY as the "n word". I even witnessed a Ukrainian man pulling his wife out of a taxi cab after noticing the driver was black.

We have it good here and to be frank, the most racist beings I've ever met have happened to be Asian. That aside, I think everybody needs to grow thicker skin in general. People aren't always going to like you for some reason or another... sometimes for things you can't even control. I'd rather have a world of people speaking their minds than one where everyone wears a mask trying to please and tiptoe around others. Maybe that's just me.

Honestly I think people who don't experience racism firsthand spend more time complaining about people bringing up racism. It's easy to say that it's blown out of proportion when you're not experiencing it. It should not be minimized. Plus, just because other countries have bigger problems doesn't mean racism doesn't exist in America. Just saying you might be on the wrong end of the telescope on this one. Rather than seeing people acknowledge the fact that the OP was offended by something that was racist, countless posters have tried to silence her by reasoning that's just the way things are. Well I for one believe that's not the way things have to be. I mean if all of a sudden became people started to take a dump in your back yard because they thought it was funny, and you were obviously pissed how would you feel people just told you that's the way things are and you should get over it. It was worse in the middle ages, they used to throw waste into the streets. Crazy example I know, but similarly line of thought.

 

[Mommy Doc 85]

This isn't racism. It was making fun of someone's inability to speak english. The doctor said something about him not being able to speak english and the nurse mocked what a non- english speaking person might sound like. Rude to some, funny to others. It's not like she said it in front of the patient. Lighten up.

 

[Eiot]

Honestly I think people who don't experience racism firsthand spend more time complaining about people bringing up racism. It's easy to say that it's blown out of proportion when you're not experiencing it. It should not be minimized. Plus, just because other countries have bigger problems doesn't mean racism doesn't exist in America.

I never said racism didn't exist in America. Please do not take me out of context. I also feel like you assume I do not encounter racism first hand. If this is the case then you are incorrect. I will say that I am not a "white" American. I have received everything from playful jabs, accidental racist slips, to full blown hate. However, I let it slide because I understand that while my griping may or may not change someone's perspective, my energy is still better placed elsewhere... like learning to save someone's life. Plus, and maybe it's just me, but I consider it pathetic to truly care about the opinion of a stranger or acquaintance.

Just saying you might be on the wrong end of the telescope on this one. Rather than seeing people acknowledge the fact that the OP was offended by something that was racist, countless posters have tried to silence her by reasoning that's just the way things are. Well I for one believe that's not the way things have to be. I mean if all of a sudden became people started to take a dump in your back yard because they thought it was funny, and you were obviously pissed how would you feel people just told you that's the way things are and you should get over it. It was worse in the middle ages, they used to throw waste into the streets. Crazy example I know, but similarly line of thought.

I understand the point you are trying to make, but the example does not fit and here is why: The example is far too radical to the point that everyone here can agree that taking a dump in other people's backyard is a heinous violation of the law. On top of this, it does not do well to go from everyone crapping in a toilet (usually their own) to crapping not only on the ground, but in another individual's backyard. That is considered de-evolution; serving no purpose other than to needlessly contaminate an area. Besides, the act oversteps more than a few bounds making it a better comparison to beating someone because of the color of their skin than ignorant words.

However, to address your line of thought with a better example, what if people designed their bathrooms to have the outside walls made of glass. They just absolutely loved looking at their yard and watching their dog run around while they did their business. Every now and then they'd see you outside or in your living room and wave. You would be weirded out right? Probably offended, maybe even pissed off and this would be understandable, but if "that's the way it is" then man up. Close the blinds if you have to but accept it for what it is. The truth of the matter is that as humans we are not always going to get what we want. In fact, we are rarely going to get what we want. People are going to do things that offend us. Always. Forever. Dwelling on those things is the fastest path to regression. The strong and able take it for what it is, learn from it, and move on as a stronger individual.

 

[Parklife]

Who cares. Asians will rule the world.

 

[Eiot]

Who cares. Asians will rule the world.

Shhhhh! No one must know!

 

[HeronsBeak]

I honestly don't see the difference between this thread and a similar one I read a while back about students shadowing doctors who made joking comments about their patients. Comedy is an excellent reducer of stress, and I don't see the problem with a few jokes. You are an individual, and if you are really offended by a stereotype that makes sweeping comedic generalizations(though I'm sure the woman being referred to probably didn't speak english very well, else the nurse would not likely joke about it) perhaps you should look more at who you are and realize that you are not being made the subject of, "racist(not)," remarks. Asians take things too seriously.

 

[SpecterGT260]

. Asians take things too seriously.

Not sure if srs or trolling. Irony level 9000

 

[HeronsBeak]

^
That was the point

 

[sisko]

Wow. Get a thicker skin people and quit looking for sinister ulterior motives behind banal comments. I obviously was not present when we took the vote and decided people could freak out at the mere suggestion of a perceived identity slight. What kind of PC-fascist state do you want for our future?

What about jokes concerning someone being tall vs short? Gregarious vs quiet? Fat vs skinny… Old vs young… Rich vs broke… Opera fan vs rap fan vs heavy metal fan vs country music fan… City slicker vs redneck… Always early vs always late… Cheap vs free spender… Night owl vs early riser… The cliché of the surfer/snowboarder dude, the valley girl, the nerd or the dumb jock?

If we are no longer allowed to point out the differences between person A, with certain attributes, and person B, with different attributes, then we will have to remove all references to human beings in all comedy in every possible medium. You can't say anything funny about anyone without some standard of reference of another kind of person to compare it to, even if the second person is not explicitly mentioned. (e.g. "my husband is so lazy, he might not leave the couch if the house were on fire and the game was on, as long as the firefighters were on their way" … that's only amusing if/when you compare this guy to some other "normal person" who would flee from fire).

And how do you know that joking about my race will hurt me the most? Maybe a joke about me being broke all the time or my love of Star Trek would be harder for me to stand?

Besides that, what about the intention of the joke teller? It doesn't take Sherlock ****ing Holmes to figure out if the guy teasing me about StarTrek is just fooling around or is looking to start a fight because Gene Roddenberry punched his mom in the face at a convention in 1977.

By singling out race as the one aspect of identity that is untouchable, the one aspect that cannot be joked about but only considered in carefully nuanced masters theses, you are giving it a level of significance that is orders of magnitude above all other factors.

You are in fact confirming the central tenet of racism: that race equals identity. When in reality, race can be an important aspect of identity, but it's only one of many factors that go into it. And for some people, it's hardly an important aspect of their identity at all.

*dismount soapbox*

 

[HeronsBeak]

Wow. Get a thicker skin people and quit looking for sinister ulterior motives behind banal comments. I obviously was not present when we took the vote and decided people could freak out at the mere suggestion of a perceived identity slight. What kind of PC-fascist state do you want for our future?

What about jokes concerning someone being tall vs short? Gregarious vs quiet? Fat vs skinny… Old vs young… Rich vs broke… Opera fan vs rap fan vs heavy metal fan vs country music fan… City slicker vs redneck… Always early vs always late… Cheap vs free spender… Night owl vs early riser… The cliché of the surfer/snowboarder dude, the valley girl, the nerd or the dumb jock?

If we are no longer allowed to point out the differences between person A, with certain attributes, and person B, with different attributes, then we will have to remove all references to human beings in all comedy in every possible medium. You can’t say anything funny about anyone without some standard of reference of another kind of person to compare it to, even if the second person is not explicitly mentioned. (e.g. “my husband is so lazy, he might not leave the couch if the house were on fire and the game was on, as long as the firefighters were on their way” … that’s only amusing if/when you compare this guy to some other “normal person” who would flee from fire).

And how do you know that joking about my race will hurt me the most? Maybe a joke about me being broke all the time or my love of Star Trek would be harder for me to stand?

Besides that, what about the intention of the joke teller? It doesn’t take Sherlock ****ing Holmes to figure out if the guy teasing me about StarTrek is just fooling around or is looking to start a fight because Gene Roddenberry punched his mom in the face at a convention in 1977.

By singling out race as the one aspect of identity that is untouchable, the one aspect that cannot be joked about but only considered in carefully nuanced masters theses, you are giving it a level of significance that is orders of magnitude above all other factors.

You are in fact confirming the central tenet of racism: that race equals identity. When in reality, race can be an important aspect of identity, but it’s only one of many factors that go into it. And for some people, it’s hardly an important aspect of their identity at all.

*dismount soapbox*

👍👍👍

 

[FattySlug]

I just started to see a trend here. People who wrote illogical arguments often have fewer than a hundred posts. Coincidence?

 

[cbrons]

I want to start off by saying that I'm a lowly volunteer, and I will most likely NOT inform the volunteer coordinator of what happened. Not because I'm okay with what happened, but only because I like volunteering at this hospital (good location, hours, don't want to waste time applying to be a volunteer at another hospital, etc), and I'm not sure I can stand the awkwardness that will ensue if I do report the matter. (And I already assume the modal response will be the typical jaded SDN one: whatever, who cares, don't be so uptight etc 😎 )

Anyway, what happened was that there was a patient coming out of anesthesia and the doctor came by to say that he could not speak English (the patient was Asian) but that the patient "promised to be good after surgery." Then the nurse threw up her hands and imitated the patient in a sing-songy/accented voice "I be good, I be good."

(I don't care about what the doctor said, I'm just trying to contextualize the nurse's remarks. And this conversation happened about ten feet in front of me.)

So my initial reaction was wtf? Is she serious? Now obviously it's a joke, but also a racially insensitive one, in my opinion (I am Asian; not that that should matter, but I suppose I pick up on such remarks more readily). It was a bit awkward for me, as I was the only Asian person in the post-op room at the time.

Like I said before, I will most likely forget about it since I would really like to keep my current volunteering position and not piss anyone off. But it got me thinking. What would I have done if I were an employee? What should I "let slide"?

Lately I have been thinking that Asians are far less likely to combat discrimination or racial insensitivity. I don't know why, perhaps it's a culture thing. And I don't know what the "I be good, I be good" equivalent is for African-Americans or Jewish people, but I know (given how politically organized those groups are) I'd be sh*tting my pants if I ever said like that. I don't demand an annoyingly PC environment. All I want is a work environment where people are more aware of their surroundings and the consequences (even if small) of their actions.

And I just wanted to get SDN's opinion. Maybe I just don't have a thick enough skin.

EDIT: I AM NOT SAYING THE NURSE WAS BEING RACIST.

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