radiologists

[scene]

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I was at work the other day looking at the "averaged" salaries of various medical professions and radiologists apparently averaged between $445,000 and $500,000+ per year! I always thought radiologists were on the low spectrum of the salaries in comparison to other medical fields since they only looked at radiology images. I pictured a radiologist reading images at home while watching the game or in between golf swings.

What are the exact requirements for a radiologist? I have read articles saying it was a "13 year path" or a "10 year path."

 

[MedPR]

I was at work the other day looking at the "averaged" salaries of various medical professions and radiologists apparently averaged between $445,000 and $500,000+ per year! I always thought radiologists were on the low spectrum of the salaries in comparison to other medical fields since they only looked at radiology images. I pictured a radiologist reading images at home while watching the game or in between golf swings.

What are the exact requirements for a radiologist? I have read articles saying it was a "13 year path" or a "10 year path."

6/10 👍

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[wjs010]

6/10 👍

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile

Your post is new and exciting

 

[Bangersandmash]

This is a pre-medical forum. I don't see what asking questions about people who study radios has to do with the purpose of this forum.

 

[scene]

This is a pre-medical forum. I don't see what asking questions about people who study radios has to do with the purpose of this forum.

i may go into this field that's why lol

 

[killinsound]

I was at work the other day looking at the "averaged" salaries of various medical professions and radiologists apparently averaged between $445,000 and $500,000+ per year! I always thought radiologists were on the low spectrum of the salaries in comparison to other medical fields since they only looked at radiology images. I pictured a radiologist reading images at home while watching the game or in between golf swings.

What are the exact requirements for a radiologist? I have read articles saying it was a "13 year path" or a "10 year path."

Med school and a 5 year long residency is 9 years. It's pretty much all but required to have a fellowship these days which are usually 1 year, so 10 years today. For neuro IR it can be as much as 12 years total.

Your perceived notion of the radiologist is extremely far from the truth. Radiology is only ~10 hours a day on a regular shift, but there is rarely time to do anything else but read images. You are responsible for getting back reads which will ultimately decide final therapeutic measures -> is that actually air in the bowel wall, does the patient have an appendicitis, is that small sliver of hyperdense on the non-contrast CT head hemorrhage? etc. This all must be done in an extremely rapid fashion.

Radiology call at a busy hospital is the worst call in terms of sustained mental focus, down-time, and responsibility. Furthermore, reimbursement for imaging is getting cut and this income will likely fall by a good percentage. Jobs are hard to find in busy cities.

 

[Bangersandmash]

Med school and a 5 year long residency is 9 years. It's pretty much all but required to have a fellowship these days which are usually 1 year, so 10 years today. For neuro IR it can be as much as 12 years total.

Your perceived notion of the radiologist is extremely far from the truth. Radiology is only ~10 hours a day on a regular shift, but there is rarely time to do anything else but read images. You are responsible for getting back reads which will ultimately decide final therapeutic measures -> is that actually air in the bowel wall, does the patient have an appendicitis, is that small sliver of hyperdense on the non-contrast CT head hemorrhage? etc. This all must be done in an extremely rapid fashion.

Radiology call at a busy hospital is the worst call in terms of sustained mental focus, down-time, and responsibility. Furthermore, reimbursement for imaging is getting cut and this income will likely fall by a good percentage. Jobs are hard to find in busy cities.

What's a radiology residency like? I have a better time imagining what you do in a surgery residency, or maybe an internist or neurologist etc., but I can't imagine what training consists of in radiology for 5 years.

 

[SpecterGT260]

Your post is new and exciting

Direct yet understated.
8/10 would ba... er... read again 👍

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[Law2Doc]

What's a radiology residency like? I have a better time imagining what you do in a surgery residency, or maybe an internist or neurologist etc., but I can't imagine what training consists of in radiology for 5 years.

People on this tread probably need to get a handle on what radiology actually is before postulating that they can't imagine it taking 5 years of residency. I defer to others for the specifics, but from my not so limited vantage point it is a bit more than looking at pictures. These are the consults for every specialty in the hospital. ENT needs their advice on locating and opening up a peritonsilar abscess. Then ortho needs to know if there is meniscal damage they should arthroscopically repair. Then neuro needs to know if their patient has a brain bleed, and from where. And cardiology needs a stress test to see if a post-MI patient still has viable heart muscle before cath'ing. The ED needs to know if this patient has acute appendicitis and general surgery needs to know if that patient has ischemic bowel and if so, how far from the cecum. And so on. There are very few specialties out there which involve the entire spectrum of human anatomy and all disease processes, each in multiple modalities to boot (CT, MRI, ultrasound, x-ray/fluoro, nuclear imaging). You have to learn the intricacies and procedures involved for every portion of the body (most of which have fellowships for sub specialization). The amount of information involved dwarfs many other specialties. I doubt as many radiology residents are working on their golf swings as compared to those in fields like PM&R or derm.

As for average salaries, the last medscape survey put ortho and radiology tied as the top average salary with averages in the $300k range.

 

[punkedoutriffs]

Omg, I want to go into Rads now.

 

[nogolfinsnow]

In our peds-only hospital, the radiologists are one of (the?) most valuable resources. In addition to reading a bajillion films, they also do interventional procedures and do a LOT of teaching and have a huge span of knowledge. They also take home call for emergent overnight issues. Like Law2Doc said, every specialty in the hospital will rely on radiology at some point every day.

 

[Bangersandmash]

People on this tread probably need to get a handle on what radiology actually is before postulating that they can't imagine it taking 5 years of residency. I defer to others for the specifics, but from my not so limited vantage point it is a bit more than looking at pictures. These are the consults for every specialty in the hospital. ENT needs their advice on locating and opening up a peritonsilar abscess. Then ortho needs to know if there is meniscal damage they should arthroscopically repair. Then neuro needs to know if their patient has a brain bleed, and from where. And cardiology needs a stress test to see if a post-MI patient still has viable heart muscle before cath'ing. The ED needs to know if this patient has acute appendicitis and general surgery needs to know if that patient has ischemic bowel and if so, how far from the cecum. And so on. There are very few specialties out there which involve the entire spectrum of human anatomy and all disease processes, each in multiple modalities to boot (CT, MRI, ultrasound, x-ray/fluoro, nuclear imaging). You have to learn the intricacies and procedures involved for every portion of the body (most of which have fellowships for sub specialization). The amount of information involved dwarfs many other specialties. I doubt as many radiology residents are working on their golf swings as compared to those in fields like PM&R or derm.

As for average salaries, the last medscape survey put ortho and radiology tied as the top average salary with averages in the $300k range.

Shouldn't that be a year tops then?🤣

(Not sure if that's an appropriate sarcasm emoticon)

 

[NickNaylor]

Omg, I want to go into Rads now.

Rads is one of THE targets of reimbursement cuts. Salaries will still likely be way above the average, but the days of universally high salaries will likely be coming to an end in the coming years, especially as the changes instituted by the ACA take effect.

(sent from my phone)

 

[0TopCat0]

still gunnin for dermatology

 

[Owlie]

Yes, let's all go into radiology and deal with having to put "cannot rule out metastatic cancer" on every radiogram from a cancer patient because you want to cover your ass. Seriously. One of the lawsuits most often enacted is due to catching breast cancer late. My source is a study I read and a general surgeon who explained this crapshoot to me regarding medicine.

 

[MedPR]

Your post is new and exciting

7/10 👍

 

[phikapdoctor]

RADS is harder then it looks. You look at hundred of images a day for a short period of time, and you are held to a high standard of being right.


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[Doudline]

RADS is harder then it looks. You look at hundred of images a day for a short period of time, and you are held to a high standard of being right.

And I bet the images aren't even color! Fuc*!

 

[MedPR]

, and you are held to a high standard of being right.


Sent from my iphone using sdn mobile app please excuse punctuation and spelling

Omg, FOR REAL?

 

[Arbor Vitae]

ROADS or I'm going to go back into investment banking.

 

[Gielinor]

I lol'd

Omg, FOR REAL?

 

[typicalindian]

ROADS or I'm going to go back into investment banking.

Icwutudidthar

 

[gasblaster]

RADS is harder then it looks. You look at hundred of images a day for a short period of time, and you are held to a high standard of being right.

True. Rads actually is up there in terms of lawsuits and malpractice awards. Think misread mammos.

Rads is one of THE targets of reimbursement cuts. Salaries will still likely be way above the average, but the days of universally high salaries will likely be coming to an end in the coming years, especially as the changes instituted by the ACA take effect.

Yep Rads is going to take a large beating in addition to their own doom and gloom scenarios thrown around.

 

[Law2Doc]

...
Yep Rads is going to take a large beating in addition to their own doom and gloom scenarios thrown around.

"large beating" needs to be looked at in perspective. If they take a hit of a 20% decrease of annual income they are still going to be averaging about twice what a pediatrician earns. But sure it won't be what folks earned 10 years ago. The bigger concern for radiology hopefuls the tight job market in that field right now.

 

[Owlie]

True. Rads actually is up there in terms of lawsuits and malpractice awards. Think misread mammos.



Yep Rads is going to take a large beating in addition to their own doom and gloom scenarios thrown around.

Exactly what I said 👍

Kinda

 

[NickNaylor]

"large beating" needs to be looked at in perspective. If they take a hit of a 20% decrease of annual income they are still going to be averaging about twice what a pediatrician earns. But sure it won't be what folks earned 10 years ago. The bigger concern for radiology hopefuls the tight job market in that field right now.

I agree that it's relative, but a 20% cut is a 20% cut. That's pretty substantial.

(sent from my phone)

 

[MiracleforMD]

People on this tread probably need to get a handle on what radiology actually is before postulating that they can't imagine it taking 5 years of residency. I defer to others for the specifics, but from my not so limited vantage point it is a bit more than looking at pictures. These are the consults for every specialty in the hospital. ENT needs their advice on locating and opening up a peritonsilar abscess. Then ortho needs to know if there is meniscal damage they should arthroscopically repair. Then neuro needs to know if their patient has a brain bleed, and from where. And cardiology needs a stress test to see if a post-MI patient still has viable heart muscle before cath'ing. The ED needs to know if this patient has acute appendicitis and general surgery needs to know if that patient has ischemic bowel and if so, how far from the cecum. And so on. There are very few specialties out there which involve the entire spectrum of human anatomy and all disease processes, each in multiple modalities to boot (CT, MRI, ultrasound, x-ray/fluoro, nuclear imaging). You have to learn the intricacies and procedures involved for every portion of the body (most of which have fellowships for sub specialization). The amount of information involved dwarfs many other specialties. I doubt as many radiology residents are working on their golf swings as compared to those in fields like PM&R or derm.

As for average salaries, the last medscape survey put ortho and radiology tied as the top average salary with averages in the $300k range.

Nuc med does thalliums I thought?

 

[MedPR]

ROADS or I'm going to go back into investment banking.

The "S" stands for stripping, right?

 

[SpecterGT260]

The "S" stands for stripping, right?

Yes. Same S in NSAIDS and MCATS.

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[phikapdoctor]

Omg, FOR REAL?

Yerrrr duuuudddee.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile app please excuse punctuation and spelling

 

[punkedoutriffs]

I agree that it's relative, but a 20% cut is a 20% cut. That's pretty substantial.

(sent from my phone)

Yea but, a decrease from $300,000 say to $240,000 I can deal with. Not ideal, but definitely not a dealbreaker.

 

[Lucky Louie]

I heard that radiology is one of the most competitive specialities to get into.

 

[gasblaster]

I heard that radiology is one of the most competitive specialities to get into.

I'd say competitive but not one of the most. They have a significant number of spots between academic centers and community hospitals.

 

[killinsound]

I heard that radiology is one of the most competitive specialities to get into.

Radiology is not hard to get into if you are okay with going to a joe-shmoe program - just based on number of seats.

If you want to go to a stronger program then you are looking at the cream of the crop.

 

[gasblaster]

Yea but, a decrease from $300,000 say to $240,000 I can deal with. Not ideal, but definitely not a dealbreaker.

Like Law2doc stated. They also have the issue of the tight job market.

 

[NickNaylor]

Yea but, a decrease from $300,000 say to $240,000 I can deal with. Not ideal, but definitely not a dealbreaker.

What if you were making $300K and then your salary gets slashed by 20%? Of course you can "deal with it" (lol) because you have zero skin in the game.

(sent from my phone)

 

[Doudline]

What if you were making $300K and then your salary gets slashed by 20%? Of course you can "deal with it" (lol) because you have zero skin in the game.

(sent from my phone)

What an enlightened argument...

 

[Postictal Raiden]

What if you were making $300K and then your salary gets slashed by 20%? Of course you can "deal with it" (lol) because you have zero skin in the game.

(sent from my phone)

I would argue that we, as future physicians, have as much skin in it as practicing physicians, if not more. We are investing the time, effort, and $$$$$ to have a "fair" piece of the pie.

To illustrate, a radiologist who's been practicing for 10 years and earning 300k/year will surely be hurt by a 20% pay cuts. However, for someone just coming out of residency, accumulated 400K in school debts and interests, and haven't had a real life for the past 10 years, such drastic cuts can be crippling.

 

[MiracleforMD]

I would argue that we, as future physicians, have as much skin in it as practicing physicians, if not more. We are investing the time, effort, and $$$$$ to have a "fair" piece of the pie.

To illustrate, a radiologist who's been practicing for 10 years and earning 300k/year will surely be hurt by a 20% pay cuts. However, for someone just coming out of residency, accumulated 400K in school debts and interests, and haven't had a real life for the past 10 years, such drastic cuts can be crippling.

I think myself and many others would disagree.

 

[MedPR]

I would argue that we, as future physicians, have as much skin in it as practicing physicians, if not more. We are investing the time, effort, and $$$$$ to have a "fair" piece of the pie.

To illustrate, a radiologist who's been practicing for 10 years and earning 300k/year will surely be hurt by a 20% pay cuts. However, for someone just coming out of residency, accumulated 400K in school debts and interests, and haven't had a real life for the past 10 years, such drastic cuts can be crippling.

Two things. First, how is a $240k salary crippling? Second, newly minted radiologists do not know what it was like to have a $300k salary, so that $240k salary resulting from a "crippling" pay cut has no effect on them. Think about it this way. The current radiologists will experience a slight decrease in income and, depending on their current lifestyle, a decrease in their quality of life. However, every single newly boarded radiologist just went from $40k (or whatever rads residents make) to $200k+.

 

[scene]

Is it possible to become a doctor that knows the entire human body? or know every aspect of the medical field? If someone can corner that "specialty" then I am pretty sure that he/she would make millions per year.

 

[MedPR]

Is it possible to become a doctor that knows the entire human body? or know every aspect of the medical field? If someone can corner that "specialty" then I am pretty sure that he/she would make millions per year.

Depending on your exact meaning, pathologists, FM/IM, and even anatomy professors fall into that category. None of whom currently make millions per year.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Two things. First, how is a $240k salary crippling? Second, newly minted radiologists do not know what it was like to have a $300k salary, so that $240k salary resulting from a "crippling" pay cut has no effect on them. Think about it this way. The current radiologists will experience a slight decrease in income and, depending on their current lifestyle, a decrease in their quality of life. However, every single newly boarded radiologist just went from $40k (or whatever rads residents make) to $200k+.

"Crippling" was a bad choice of word. What I probably should have said is extremely disappointing.

Although I agree that a salary downgrade can't be felt by someone who never earned the original salary in the first place. However, having invested so much into a career that to be rewarded significantly less than what it's expected is equally painful as well. Many of today's practicing radiologists have been practicing during the "golden" years of radiology. They have earned more than enough to payoff their debts and establish a financial security. We, future physicians, on the other hand, will be making nowhere close to what they have made in addition to astronomical educational debts.

 

[Bangersandmash]

Is it possible to become a doctor that knows the entire human body? or know every aspect of the medical field? If someone can corner that "specialty" then I am pretty sure that he/she would make millions per year.

I guess you're serious? If you're referring to general knowledge, anatomy professors know the "entire" body. If you're referring to someone who can treat anything, it won't happen. There's a reason residencies are 3-7 years. You're not going to find a neurosurgeon who is also an expert at plastic surgery and general surgeon. You're not going to find an IM doctor who also does neurology and nephrology. You'd either come out with a 60 year old doctor who has trained all of his life or a doctor who can't really fix anything, but knows a lot about everything.

There are many notable examples of polymaths outside of medicine though if you're interested in knowing everything.

 

[MedPR]

"Crippling" was a bad choice of word. What I probably should have said is extremely disappointing.

Although I agree that a salary downgrade can't be felt by someone who never earned the original salary in the first place. However, having invested so much into a career that to be rewarded significantly less than what it's expected is equally painful as well. Many of today's practicing radiologists have been practicing during the "golden" years of radiology. They have earned more than enough to payoff their debts and establish a financial security. We, future physicians, on the other hand, will be making nowhere close to what they have made in addition to astronomical educational debts.

True, but I'll be quite happy if I'm raking in $240k/yr especially in a specialty that typically has good hours.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

True, but I'll be quite happy if I'm raking in $240k/yr especially in a specialty that typically has good hours.

Believe me, I will be ecstatic to earn half of that if I didn't have to worry about loans. However, I will always feel ripped off knowing how much better older generation physicians had it.

 

[gasblaster]

Believe me, I will be ecstatic to earn half of that if I didn't have to worry about loans. However, I will always feel ripped off knowing how much better older generation physicians had it.

100% this. Across the board, they had it good. Not just in terms of pay, but most facets of medical practice.

 

[MedPR]

Believe me, I will be ecstatic to earn half of that if I didn't have to worry about loans. However, I will always feel ripped off knowing how much better older generation physicians had it.

You barely have to worry about loans if you're making $240k/yr, but of course it's your prerogative to worry about what other physicians made in the past. I feel bad for everyone who will let that sort of thing bother them.

It's one thing to dislike changes to the system. It's another to be jealous of people because they lived in the "better" system.

 

[gasblaster]

You barely have to worry about loans if you're making $240k/yr, but of course it's your prerogative to worry about what other physicians made in the past. I feel bad for everyone who will let that sort of thing bother them.

It's one thing to dislike changes to the system. It's another to be jealous of people because they lived in the "better" system.

It's not a matter of paying it back. Yeah we'll eventually be able to but it's no easy feat. I have a quarter of the amount of loans that a lot of my classmates did and it's pretty stressful. I can only imagine what some people are facing (private undergrads, post-bacs, med school, 4 yr+ of residency). It's definitely not unheard of to come out in 300-400k+ of loans (not including interest). Most of us can't start putting a dent in those until post-residency when we're over 30. Add on top of that add mortgages, kids, etc. It's nice as a premed but wait until after you've run the gamut.

 

[Law2Doc]

Nuc med does thalliums I thought?

In most cases nuclear medicine falls under the heading of radiology. There are a few separate nuclear medicine residencies, but since radiologists can read nuclear medicine studies but not vice versa, and since the future of nuclear medicine is likely combo studies like PET-MRI, a distinct nuclear medicine field isn't long for this world I suspect.