Radiology and Doris Duke

[posh]

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I am a MS4 at a Top 25 med school in the Northwest who decided on a career in radiology quite late and did not apply this year. I just did not feel that my medical school gave me enough time to decide at the beginning of 4th year. Ultimately, my background as a computer science major in college and an elective rotation in radiology sparked my interest.

I plan on doing a Doris Duke or Howard Hughes fellowship in Radiology next year and then apply. The thing is that I have a Step 1 and Step 2 of 90 and 96, respectively. It has been frustrating because the PD at my school insists that I will not match.

Although radiology is not research heavy, I was wondering if a year of research as a Doris Duke will be helpful. Do I really have little chance of getting in anywhere? Would a research year be better than doing a prelim medicine or surgery year and then applying or trying for a PGY2 spot?

 

[posh]

Any help at all here guys!!

 

[Neuronix]

Your 3 digit Step I and II scores would be helpful. Nobody I know thinks in 2 digit terms around here. Why does your med school's Rads PD think you won't match?

 

[posh]

222 and 234. My PD says that their applicant pool had an average Step of 240 this year.

 

[shocker]

Did you do well in med school? If yes, then you should not have any problem matching, considering you are an AMG from a top 25 school.

Research would be helpful and if you know you are going to have an extra year, why not do it? It is not essential but is great for those who don't have the "superstar stats".

Get to know some Radiologists and try to establish some connections, that can't hurt you either.

You will not match at a top-tier program but you should match somewhere. As Neuronix said, give the 3-digit number for boards as that is much more helpful.

 

[shocker]

I was writing as you posted. 222 is fine. You will match somewhere and I would say that it would be a solid university program. Relax, you will do fine.

 

[bulletproof]

I am a MS4 at a Top 25 med school in the Northwest who decided on a career in radiology quite late and did not apply this year. I just did not feel that my medical school gave me enough time to decide at the beginning of 4th year. Ultimately, my background as a computer science major in college and an elective rotation in radiology sparked my interest.

I plan on doing a Doris Duke or Howard Hughes fellowship in Radiology next year and then apply. The thing is that I have a Step 1 and Step 2 of 90 and 96, respectively. It has been frustrating because the PD at my school insists that I will not match.

Although radiology is not research heavy, I was wondering if a year of research as a Doris Duke will be helpful. Do I really have little chance of getting in anywhere? Would a research year be better than doing a prelim medicine or surgery year and then applying or trying for a PGY2 spot?

Well if it s any consolation, I am an FMG applying through this years match with slightly higher stats than you, and I have had a good amount of interviews and pretty good feedback. It is very tough to match into rads. right now, but for your PD to *insist* that you won't match is a bit excessive. At a couple of interviews this year the PDs straight out told us something to the effect,"you're all stellar applicants with 90+ step 1 scores. So we know you're smart enough. Basically we are looking for someone who we can work with day in and day out for the next 4/5 years." I had written a fairly creative personal statement which the interviewers really enjoyed. At one university program it had actually been handed around the entire rads department. I guess my point is...your scores and the fact that you are coming from a top U.S. school will get you the interviews. Now just make sure you have your application and supporting materials in on day one, work on your personal statement, and be interesting and amicable for interview season. In my experience scores simply get you to the interview. If I end up not matching I will post back and recant that last statement.😳

 

[Neurotoxin]

I have a similar question. I love both neurology and radiology. My scores are 218/224 and I'm from a mid-tier US med school. My school goes by a H/HP/P/F system, where I got a HP in Radiology (sub-clinical) with the rest of my courses being split HP and P with some H. My 3rd yr was not so stellar, mostly P with a H in Neurology. I have some unpublished research in a neurooncology based project. I took neuroradiology as a 4th yr elective and loved it (both the neurology and radiology). Based on what my mentor told me, he said I could not make it in radiology and so I applied to neurology solely. I would love to do neuroradiology and was wondering if programs will accept an application like mine (in addition to the fact I'll be applying as an intern). If not, what can I do to strengthen my application? Otherwise, what about those neuroimaging fellowships? How practical are those?

Thanks for your help!!! 🙂

 

[OHMAN0125]

I have a similar question. I love both neurology and radiology. My scores are 218/224 and I'm from a mid-tier US med school. My school goes by a H/HP/P/F system, where I got a HP in Radiology (sub-clinical) with the rest of my courses being split HP and P with some H. My 3rd yr was not so stellar, mostly P with a H in Neurology. I have some unpublished research in a neurooncology based project. I took neuroradiology as a 4th yr elective and loved it (both the neurology and radiology). Based on what my mentor told me, he said I could not make it in radiology and so I applied to neurology solely. I would love to do neuroradiology and was wondering if programs will accept an application like mine (in addition to the fact I'll be applying as an intern). If not, what can I do to strengthen my application? Otherwise, what about those neuroimaging fellowships? How practical are those?

Thanks for your help!!! 🙂

From my understanding those neuroimaging fellowships aren't that practical. There's only a handful and for the most part radiologists hire radiologists. They don't hire neurologists. It would be hard to setup an all imaging site as a neurologist with a neuroimaging fellowship. I'm sure it's been done in the past. Not the best idea though. Why not just reapply? Make some connections and do some research. Your scores aren't the best but now u have experience on ur side. I think if you earnestly want to do it and dont have a problem starting over there must be a program somewhere that will take you.

 

[Neurotoxin]

From my understanding those neuroimaging fellowships aren't that practical. There's only a handful and for the most part radiologists hire radiologists. They don't hire neurologists. It would be hard to setup an all imaging site as a neurologist with a neuroimaging fellowship. I'm sure it's been done in the past. Not the best idea though. Why not just reapply? Make some connections and do some research. Your scores aren't the best but now u have experience on ur side. I think if you earnestly want to do it and dont have a problem starting over there must be a program somewhere that will take you.

Thanks for your input. I really have gotten to love neuroradiology and would want to pursue it... When you mean reapply, do you mean not even doing my intern year? What else can I do? What programs (anywhere in the country) do you have in mind that I could consider (please provide some names)?

 

[OHMAN0125]

Thanks for your input. I really have gotten to love neuroradiology and would want to pursue it... When you mean reapply, do you mean not even doing my intern year? What else can I do? What programs (anywhere in the country) do you have in mind that I could consider (please provide some names)?

I misunderstood ur post. I thought u were currently in ur intern yr. In this case you can either go on to do ur intern year go do a year of research. I would highly suggest u talk to a radiologist in ur dept. Let him/her know ur willing to do anything it takes to get a rads spot, even do a year of research. If they are a good adviser, they should point u in the right direction. Maybe someone more experienced on this forum can give u better advice.

 

[posh]

Thanks for the replies. I figured my PD was being a bit to stern and that I should be able to match somewhere.

If I could just get some opinions ... would it be more worth it to take a year and do research or go ahead and graduate, move on to intern year (whether surgery or medicine), and apply during intern year?

Thanks.

 

[shocker]

Whether to do intern year now or next year is tough and an individual decision. I think research makes more sense because of these reasons:

1) If you know you want to do Radiology then pursuing some research will help you move up a little in terms of quality of program. You will be fine regardless, but adding some significant research may bump you up to a highly respected Radiology residency.

2) The application process is long and taxing. Trying to prepare for and go on 12+ Radiology interviews during a Prelim Surgery or Medicine year may be very hard to pull off. Consider how much time it takes most 4th year med students with relatively light workloads to go through this process.

3) Also, you could try and get a Transitional year or something easier for the following year as an intern. Clearly the historically super-chill TY's may be out of range but you should be competitive for a TY spot somewhere.

Good Luck.

 

[patzan]

Thanks for the replies. I figured my PD was being a bit to stern and that I should be able to match somewhere.

If I could just get some opinions ... would it be more worth it to take a year and do research or go ahead and graduate, move on to intern year (whether surgery or medicine), and apply during intern year?

Thanks.

I would do a year of research first. If you think your application is weak, you need to do something with your time that will strengthen it. Doing a crazy intern year will not do anything to improve your qualifications (except being qualified to do scut work extra super efficiently).

A year of research, possible publications, stuff to talk about in interviews that make you an interesting person are all benefits of taking a year off. I see no benefit of doing a prelim year. None. Ever.

Year off doing research, then apply and follow up with a transitional year. Heck, you could even throw in an away rotation or two to target a program, if you'd like.

 

[Reimat]

If I could just get some opinions ... would it be more worth it to take a year and do research or go ahead and graduate, move on to intern year (whether surgery or medicine), and apply during intern year?

Thanks.

I'm sure you already know this, but just in case - the deadline for HHMI and DD was in January, so if you haven't already applied, it's too late to apply for the coming year. But, you can always just do a year of research anyways.

Good luck!

 

[gourman]

The disadvantage to doing a research year includes a year of lost attending salary. However, if you feel your application is really that weak, it might be a good idea. I'm not familiar with the California/Wash/Oregon rads scene, but I suspect you'd hard-pressed to match with your scores. However, if you're willing to broaden your search to less desirable areas, you might match @ a lower university program or a private practice program w\ those stats. I know ppl of w\ that pedigree making 7 figures, btw.

 

[Neurotoxin]

The disadvantage to doing a research year includes a year of lost attending salary. However, if you feel your application is really that weak, it might be a good idea. I'm not familiar with the California/Wash/Oregon rads scene, but I suspect you'd hard-pressed to match with your scores. However, if you're willing to broaden your search to less desirable areas, you might match @ a lower university program or a private practice program w\ those stats. I know ppl of w\ that pedigree making 7 figures, btw.

With my scores, etc. what programs do you have in mind that I could match with? How are after match deals done if programs haven't matched anyone - after the scramble?

 

[Gravi69]

My school goes by a H/HP/P/F system, where I got a HP in Radiology (sub-clinical) with the rest of my courses being split HP and P with some H. My 3rd yr was not so stellar, mostly P with a H in Neurology.

I'm curious as well. A 3rd year filled predominantly with HP or P and few Honors. I've been told that's never a good sign. Is it still possible to match into rads with this (maybe with an outstanding Step 1 score to compensate?)

 

[gourman]

So radiology.matchapplicants.com is the site that will give you the best information. So you should see how you match up w\ the applicants on there.

Off the top of my head, the guy that was 220/230ish on S1/S2 can probably get interviews at places in the midwest like creighton, nebraska, MCW, Oklahoma, UMKC, KUKC, KU-wichita, southern illinois, Minn, UT-Memphis maybe knoxville, south florida, mississippi, south alabama...schools like that. UAMS is a big-time sleeper. Would definitely apply there, Missouri as well. Texas is a more competitive, maybe UTMB or UTSA there. The east coast, west coast, and chicago are generally more competitive, so probably community programs there (if you want to go there). There are some strong community programs in the mid-west as well--baptist memphis is really good (see AM), baptist okc is worse, but pretty ok, baylor dallas is "community," but may be the most competitive in Tx.

I'd apply to slightly more than average, maybe 40-50. Do an away at some slightly out of reach school & impress there, and try to match there if you can't stand programs like the ones above. Hope that helps.