Radiology Electives as PGY 1 Intern

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iBrawl
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Hello everyone,

I have a question about radiology electives as a pgy-1 intern. I am doing a prelim medicine at an institution that does not have a ACGME accredited radiology residency program and I understand that I am not allowed to do a diagnostic radiology elective there.

The ABR states: "If there is an elective in diagnostic radiology, it must be in a department with an ACGME-approved diagnostic radiology residency program and cannot be longer than two months. No more than a total of three months may be spent in radiation oncology and/or pathology."

However the statement doesn't address IR specifically. My question is can I do an IR elective at my institution and receive credit for it? Has anyone done this in the past or have experience with this?

Thanks
 
This is a semantics game that you don't want to play. It's not worth the risk that someone will, after it's too late to correct it, determine that you didn't fulfill the ABR's requirements for internship.
 
meister said:
It's not a semantics game, it's a legal game. And you'd get wrecked if you tried to sneak that past them and they caught on.
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What are you talking about? For one, it's definitely a semantics game because the OP is trying to define "diagnostic" radiology narrowly, specifically to the exclusion of interventional radiology. Analyzing words' meanings is the definition of semantics. Secondly, even if it's not a semantics game, it's definitely not a legal game, as there is nothing here that has anything to do with the law.
 
This is semantiception... An argument about semantics within an argument about semantics.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
 
colbgw02 said:
What are you talking about? For one, it's definitely a semantics game because the OP is trying to define "diagnostic" radiology narrowly, specifically to the exclusion of interventional radiology. Analyzing words' meanings is the definition of semantics. Secondly, even if it's not a semantics game, it's definitely not a legal game, as there is nothing here that has anything to do with the law.
Click to expand...
I disagree. OP, try not to get arrested for crossing the ABR.
 
At the satellite campus of my state school where I did a good chunk of my rotations, interns in the transitional year were allowed to rotate in the 'special procedures' department, sometimes just called 'specials' and it was just IR. Never had a problem, the ABR isn't out to get you they just don't want you to make sure you learn radiology properly.
 
Ziff700 said:
At the satellite campus of my state school where I did a good chunk of my rotations, interns in the transitional year were allowed to rotate in the 'special procedures' department, sometimes just called 'specials' and it was just IR. Never had a problem, the ABR isn't out to get you they just don't want you to make sure you learn radiology properly.
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Good to know, but is it possible that a relationship exists between this hospital and the main campus, where the residency is located. And, are you sure the ABR even knows about it? Researching individual TY programs' rotations isn't really something the ABR does, which may mean the OP is safe regardless. OP, you could always just call the ABR and ask.
 
It probably won't be the highest yield as an intern. I'm at a similar program and found that while I wasn't able to officially rotate, I just hung out and asked questions in the radiology department when I got the chance. The other option is that, at least at my program, if you tell them you are a prelim going into radiology, many electives will manipulate stuff for you a bit. I did a bunch of radial accesses and what not on my interventional cardiology rotation and hung with musculoskeletal radiology for my "sports medicine" elective. Even endocrine let me go and meet up for FNA of thyroid nodules.

I'd just pick the most relaxed rotations you can get and enjoy your time. Get step 3 out of the way. Live a little. All of that.
 
MossPoh said:
It probably won't be the highest yield as an intern. I'm at a similar program and found that while I wasn't able to officially rotate, I just hung out and asked questions in the radiology department when I got the chance. The other option is that, at least at my program, if you tell them you are a prelim going into radiology, many electives will manipulate stuff for you a bit. I did a bunch of radial accesses and what not on my interventional cardiology rotation and hung with musculoskeletal radiology for my "sports medicine" elective. Even endocrine let me go and meet up for FNA of thyroid nodules.

I'd just pick the most relaxed rotations you can get and enjoy your time. Get step 3 out of the way. Live a little. All of that.
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Totally agree. Honestly, I don't think one month of radiology or IR elective will be useful.

Just do a relaxed rotation like Derm or endocrinology or outpatient medicine, enjoy your free time and finish step 3. Save some energy for next year. 2 weeks of hard work during your residency will be more productive than 2 months of radiology elective during your internship.
 
Last edited:
Prelims in my program are allowed to do IR at our hospital.
 
I recently heard about this requirement of only being able to do radiology electives at an ACGME radiology program and am wondering if it applies to me. I matched into rads (starting 2016) during my internship, which I finished this July 2015. That is, I have a gap year now. During internship I did a two week elective in radiology at my community hospital (no rads program). My internship PD says this won't be a problem because the ABR rule was changed after I matched into internship. There were like six other radiology prelims in my internship, but they will be finishing residency in 2019 while I will be finishing in 2020 because of my current gap year. Is this new ABR rule something I have to worry about?
 
jejudo said:
I recently heard about this requirement of only being able to do radiology electives at an ACGME radiology program and am wondering if it applies to me. I matched into rads (starting 2016) during my internship, which I finished this July 2015. That is, I have a gap year now. During internship I did a two week elective in radiology at my community hospital (no rads program). My internship PD says this won't be a problem because the ABR rule was changed after I matched into internship. There were like six other radiology prelims in my internship, but they will be finishing residency in 2019 while I will be finishing in 2020 because of my current gap year. Is this new ABR rule something I have to worry about?
Click to expand...

I have no advice to offer but this same rule was in place for the 2019 class.....I think it has been a rule for quite a while. It sounds like your PD was just not aware of the rule.

I matched the same year that you did and this was definitely the rule then.
 
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