Random Admissions Factors

[SouthernGent]

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Had an interview and experienced something quiet peculiar: I was making small talk at the end of my interview with the adcom officer who said he was from a town near my family farm. I mentioned that our farm was just the county over from him and he instantly perked up and started asking me questions about the farm. i.e. Where it was exactly, how old it was (1700's), etc. and he wrote all of it down on the interview sheet. He then mentioned that this information was very important. I personally do not consider my family owning a farm in a poor county and my time working on it critical to my application, but to this school it obviously was. Anyone else experience an instance of Adcom expressing obvious interest in what you believe was/is a rather inconsequential point of information?

 

[sharpstickie]

I mentioned in my application that I learned Portuguese while living in Brazil for two years. I walked into the interview and the professor started speaking Portuguese with me (presumably to see if I really did). Turns out he immigrated from Brazil as a kid and we had a good time talking about medicine down there. Was not expecting it at all.

 

[URHere]

When I went through the med school application process, I had one faculty interviewer make a disproportionately big deal about my father being a construction worker. He proceeded to tell me that being "underprivileged" would really make me stand out from the other applicants. I just sat there shocked for awhile, because no one had ever just come out with something like that to my face before...while seeming excited about it nonetheless.

I didn't really understand until I started medical school and realized exactly how many of my classmates came from physician families. Being from outside the fold is still rare enough to make some people do really awkward things.

 

[gyngyn]

The content of the interview is less important than the quality of the interaction.

 

[Goro]

I hope that when you get into med school that you can take part in interviews, and then you will see that your comment is, well, rather ignorant of the process.

The conversation could have been about the Chicago Cubs, hang gliding, or Picasso's Blue Period. Being able to master communication skills is a required core competency of medical school graduates. Interviewers approach the interview with all sorts of questions (some of them from way out of left field) to see not only if you can think on your feet, but that you can engage in conversation and get ideas across, much less reason and articulate.

See the wise @gyngyn's comment above.

I personally do not consider my family owning a farm in a poor county and my time working on it critical to my application, but to this school it obviously was. Anyone else experience an instance of Adcom expressing obvious interest in what you believe was/is a rather inconsequential point of information?

 

[takeurmeds02]

When I went through the med school application process, I had one faculty interviewer make a disproportionately big deal about my father being a construction worker. He proceeded to tell me that being "underprivileged" would really make me stand out from the other applicants. I just sat there shocked for awhile, because no one had ever just come out with something like that to my face before...while seeming excited about it nonetheless.

I didn't really understand until I started medical school and realized exactly how many of my classmates came from physician families. Being from outside the fold is still rare enough to make some people do really awkward things.

Oh wow, thats' interesting

 

[futuremdforme]

Had an interview and experienced something quiet peculiar: I was making small talk at the end of my interview with the adcom officer who said he was from a town near my family farm. I mentioned that our farm was just the county over from him and he instantly perked up and started asking me questions about the farm. i.e. Where it was exactly, how old it was (1700's), etc. and he wrote all of it down on the interview sheet. He then mentioned that this information was very important. I personally do not consider my family owning a farm in a poor county and my time working on it critical to my application, but to this school it obviously was. Anyone else experience an instance of Adcom expressing obvious interest in what you believe was/is a rather inconsequential point of information?

When you get in and see than 60% of your classmates have at least one parent who is a physician, and the other 30% have parents in professional fields, it will all click. Also, small talk is important because they have to see you for the next four years, and they want to know that you won't drive them batty.

 

[LizzyM]

Had an interview and experienced something quiet peculiar: I was making small talk at the end of my interview with the adcom officer who said he was from a town near my family farm. I mentioned that our farm was just the county over from him and he instantly perked up and started asking me questions about the farm. i.e. Where it was exactly, how old it was (1700's), etc. and he wrote all of it down on the interview sheet. He then mentioned that this information was very important. I personally do not consider my family owning a farm in a poor county and my time working on it critical to my application, but to this school it obviously was. Anyone else experience an instance of Adcom expressing obvious interest in what you believe was/is a rather inconsequential point of information?

I think that he liked you as an applicant and this information about your background, which by now you know is very rare among strong applicants, gives him more "ammunition" with which to make a case for your admission. Also, if you are a strong applicant with many choices, he's hoping that making a connection with you regarding how you are alike (from the same area, etc) will persuade you to matriculate there despite other choices you may have.

 

[bc65]

This also shows that despite all the information on SDN, some applicants still don't know what's important in their background and applications. Maybe there's still a role for good application consultants, if you could find one.

 

[bc65]

I "did all the right things" without realizing it/needing someone to tell me to, but obviously I know that won't apply to everybody in my shoes.

It sounds like you emphasized all the right things, but it also sounds like OP didn't.

Maybe a broad generalization wasn't warranted. But it's disappointing and worrisome to me that the overwhelming number of applicants have never held a real job at any point in their lives. It's not their fault, given the academic, research, and volunteering expectations. So when someone has a background that includes actual work, especially manual labor, and / or a rural background, they should be sure to talk about it.

 

[Goro]

This seems to becoming an issue with PDs; more and more med school graduates are having residency as their first job, and with this come s a lack of job skills.

No, not being able to take a patient history, I'm talking about work ethic.

And again, no, it's not the same as the work ethic that one needed to maintain a 3.8 GPA while volunteering, researching etc. I'm talking about the attitude one has towards a job, period, like not expecting vacation time after being on the job for a month, or actually showing up on time when you're supposed to.

But it's disappointing and worrisome to me that the overwhelming number of applicants have never held a real job at any point in their lives. It's not their fault, given the academic, research, and volunteering expectations. So when someone has a background that includes actual work, especially manual labor, and / or a rural background, they should be sure to talk about it.

 

[SouthernGent]

Thanks for the input everyone. I guess I just took something I had for granted, and didn't realize it.

 

[Law2Doc]

When you get in and see than 60% of your classmates have at least one parent who is a physician, and the other 30% have parents in professional fields, it will all click...

This isn't why Adcoms get excited at "rural" and "underserved" applicants. It has nothing to do with so many people having parents being doctors or adding to diversity. It has everything to do with the fact that in medicine right now, there's a dearth of doctors willing to go work in rural and underserved communities, despite it being the mission of most med schools to help fill that demand. A med school applicant from one of these areas might go back, while the NYC kid never would move there. So your background jibes better with the schools mission. Has nothing to do with not having a doctor patent and everything to do with the distribution problems of medical service.

 

[Spinach Dip]

This seems to becoming an issue with PDs; more and more med school graduates are having residency as their first job, and with this come s a lack of job skills.

No, not being able to take a patient history, I'm talking about work ethic.

And again, no, it's not the same as the work ethic that one needed to maintain a 3.8 GPA while volunteering, researching etc. I'm talking about the attitude one has towards a job, period, like not expecting vacation time after being on the job for a month, or actually showing up on time when you're supposed to.

If they actually enjoyed doctoring, they would be early and do everything with a smile.

Unfortunately, for many premeds and med students, the prestige and money (and meeting mom and dad's expectations) is the driving force in their career decisions. This won't end until the prestige of an MD after one's name is massively devalued both socially and economically (which is unlikely to happen any time soon).

 

[TallPreMed]

TBH, there aren't that many of us from rural areas applying to med school, which is why the information probably isn't out there on SDN. About half of my class sought education beyond high school, and most of the ones who did went to trade school or community college. Nothing wrong with that - they're not unintelligent, that's just what they do. In all honesty there are probably more people in my graduating class that have kids than bachelor's degrees (my classmates and I are now 22-23 y/o). I know of a handful of people from my hometown who went to grad school, and just two of us (including me) who applied/got into med school.

But honestly, I'm not sure someone telling me ahead of time that being from a rural area might help my application would have changed anything. I talked about my background in my PS because it was important to me. I did community service with rural populations throughout high school and college (when I was home for breaks) because that's just what people in my town do - if you can help somebody, you do it. I'm also 99% sure there was a box somewhere on AMCAS where I checked that I was from a rural area, and another about whether the area I grew up in was medically underserved (although my hometown is not). I "did all the right things" without realizing it/needing someone to tell me to, but obviously I know that won't apply to everybody in my shoes.

I grew up on a farm as well. We raised cattle for beef and used the calves for roping, rode horses and baled hay every summer. The school district I grew up in had a similar pattern where most students went to trade schools and few received education past 2 years of CC. My stepdad moved us to a new school district that was known for its high academics (0% drop out rate 95% attend a four year university) my sophomore year of high school so my brother who was in kindergarten could get a stronger education. (Still live on a farm though).

Does living in Ohio in general mean you come from a rural background? I kid, I kid. I did live in Appalachia with my dad though. This type of thing isn't anything I would even think to include on my app or personal statement. But the amount of kids who got a 30+ on their ACT at the "better" school versus the kids who were the "smartest in the school" at the other school district struggled to reach a 29 does make a point to me at least.
Does any of this make sense? I was on call this weekend lol

 

[ChrisMack390]

Will medical schools care that neither of my parents went to college? I don't really feel 'underserved' but statistically my likelihood of getting a college degree was actually pretty low (and chance of applying to medical school much lower).

 

[LizzyM]

I grew up on a farm as well. We raised cattle for beef and used the calves for roping, rode horses and baled hay every summer. The school district I grew up in had a similar pattern where most students went to trade schools and few received education past 2 years of CC. My stepdad moved us to a new school district that was known for its high academics (0% drop out rate 95% attend a four year university) my sophomore year of high school so my brother who was in kindergarten could get a stronger education. (Still live on a farm though).

Does living in Ohio in general mean you come from a rural background? I kid, I kid. I did live in Appalachia with my dad though. This type of thing isn't anything I would even think to include on my app or personal statement. But the amount of kids who got a 30+ on their ACT at the "better" school versus the kids who were the "smartest in the school" at the other school district struggled to reach a 29 does make a point to me at least.
Does any of this make sense? I was on call this weekend lol

Even if you don't list your childhood background, your AMCAS application does have your birthplace (required, I think), and an optional listing of the county where you grew up. Your parents highest level of education is also optional on the application but can help an adcom gain some perspective as to your background. Keep in mind that "diversity" is not just about race but extends, informally to geographic area, population density, parental occupation. If we are in a big city physical medicine and rehabilitation department and see a patient who lost an arm in a hay baler, your ranch experience just might be relevant in connecting with the patient and understanding what it will take to rehab that person to the point where they can get back to work.

Not docs but an interesting story that is somewhat related:
http://modernfarmer.com/2015/03/farm-arm-how-a-tragedy-helped-create-a-prosthesis-for-farmers/

 

[Smoove]

Will medical schools care that neither of my parents went to college? I don't really feel 'underserved' but statistically my likelihood of getting a college degree was actually pretty low (and chance of applying to medical school much lower).

It doesn't hurt to mention so they get an idea of who you are and what kind of environment you grew up in. I mentioned it in the "about me" question and everything has turned out fine 🙂

 

[ChrisMack390]

It doesn't hurt to mention so they get an idea of who you are and what kind of environment you grew up in. I mentioned it in the "about me" question and everything has turned out fine 🙂

There is a passing line about it in my personal statement. I don't expect it to be a major factor or anything, just wondering if it matters at all really.

 

[LizzyM]

So many applications look the same with the same basic list of activities and experiences (hospital volunteer, shadowing, travel, research,campus activities) . If you have something, even something "random" (unrelated to science and medicine) that makes you distinctive among the 12 applications I will review in a given weekend, you are a more 3-D character compared to the other 11.

 

[TallPreMed]

So many applications look the same with the same basic list of activities and experiences (hospital volunteer, shadowing, travel, research,campus activities) . If you have something, even something "random" (unrelated to science and medicine) that makes you distinctive among the 12 applications I will review in a given weekend, you are a more 3-D character compared to the other 11.

Random but do you see a lot of college athletes in your apps?

 

[LizzyM]

Random but do you see a lot of college athletes in your apps?

It is rare to be a college athlete with an exceptionally high GPA and exceptionally high MCAT. Those three factors together may predict an interview invite. I don't see many get interview invites but it could be that they are screened out by relatively low GPA and never make it to my eyeballs.

 

[zedsdead]

It is rare to be a college athlete with an exceptionally high GPA and exceptionally high MCAT. Those three factors together may predict an interview invite. I don't see many get interview invites but it could be that they are screened out by relatively low GPA and never make it to my eyeballs.

Does sport matter? Is a Div 1 football/basketball player looked upon more highly than someone who is a Div 1 athlete in a sport like sailing?

I feel like the answer is no, but I was a Div 1 athlete in a niche sport and even though we put in a ton of hours, it was nothing compared to what the athletes in the big name sports committed and sacrificed.

 

[LizzyM]

Does sport matter? Is a Div 1 football/basketball player looked upon more highly than someone who is a Div 1 athlete in a sport like sailing?

I feel like the answer is no, but I was a Div 1 athlete in a niche sport and even though we put in a ton of hours, it was nothing compared to what the athletes in the big name sports committed and sacrificed.

After 15 years, I can count on one hand the number of Div 1 athletes I've seen submit competitive applications. They are really unicorns and are handled accordingly. No doubt, the hours required for the sport takes its toll on applicants.

 

[DaWeasel]

I know what you mean. It's not that the kids in my school district struggled to make a 30+ ACT intellectually, it's just that they didn't care or see a point in putting in the effort. One of the smartest people I graduated with (definitely smarter than I am) is now an auto mechanic and he absolutely loves it. He is absolutely brilliant, but he just never tried in school, because he knew his grades didn't matter anyway and probably also because he was just bored in the classes we had. I think the big problem isn't really the ability of the students, but the culture. If your parents, friends, teachers, etc. expect you to get higher education you'll take a more active interest in your academics and get results. That's rarely the case at a school like I went to (or yours, it sounds like). My high school didn't even offer AP classes, and I was taking the most advanced classes possible and was unbelievably bored/unchallenged in a lot of my classes. In several of my classes they would literally read the test to us the day before. There were a few teachers who were really passionate about creating opportunities for kids who wanted a little extra challenge, but just no money/resources to do anything.

This was my exact high school experience. There was plenty of intellectual talent at my school. There were just no outlets and equally little motivation to do well. To put it bluntly, most of the teachers at my school didn't come from a quality academic background and didn't even know there was anything worth pushing the students for.

Me and several friends scored 30+ and none of us received any guidance as to what academic opportunities we could pursue. Only after aimlessly picking college and spending a few years with no real goal did I finally realize I could do something productive instead of the usual out of my high school.

 

[TallPreMed]

Does sport matter? Is a Div 1 football/basketball player looked upon more highly than someone who is a Div 1 athlete in a sport like sailing?

I feel like the answer is no, but I was a Div 1 athlete in a niche sport and even though we put in a ton of hours, it was nothing compared to what the athletes in the big name sports committed and sacrificed.

I played basketball at a D3 school and it took up the same amount of time that my friends who played D1 ball did. We just didn't get the scholarships they did and had to keep a higher GPA (and had more loans)... Wish adcoms could see that

 

[LizzyM]

I played basketball at a D3 school and it took up the same amount of time that my friends who played D1 ball did. We just didn't get the scholarships they did and had to keep a higher GPA (and had more loans)... Wish adcoms could see that

I have seen athletes that passed at least the minimum screens get tons of respect from the adcom, particularly from adcom members who were former jocks or whose kids were jocks.

 

[Goro]

No. BTW, most Adcom members will think D1 and D3 are vitamins.

Does sport matter? Is a Div 1 football/basketball player looked upon more highly than someone who is a Div 1 athlete in a sport like sailing?

I feel like the answer is no, but I was a Div 1 athlete in a niche sport and even though we put in a ton of hours, it was nothing compared to what the athletes in the big name sports committed and sacrificed.

Academic excellence combined with being a student athlete will always be rewarded. But those who would say "I was a D# ball player and still managed to maintain a 3.2 GPA" will get no sympathy, as we simply don't know that you would have had a higher GPA without the athletics.

I played basketball at a D3 school and it took up the same amount of time that my friends who played D1 ball did. We just didn't get the scholarships they did and had to keep a higher GPA (and had more loans)... Wish adcoms could see that

 

[TallPreMed]

No. BTW, most Adcom members will think D1 and D3 are vitamins.



Academic excellence combined with being a student athlete will always be rewarded. But those who would say "I was a D# ball player and still managed to maintain a 3.2 GPA" will get no sympathy, as we simply don't know that you would have had a higher GPA without the athletics.

Thus the post bacc while working full time for me! I just didn't take my studies seriously in college while playing hoops. Thanks @Goro @LizzyM I appreciate it.

 

[Danbo1957]

I've looked at a lot of applications this cycle, both at the school and residency level. Lots of sameness. As mentioned above and elsewhere, GPA and MCAT scores are looked at first, then I look at any additional relevant academic work (post bacc, M.A./M.Sc., Ph.D.), and the school that the applicant came from (MIT or Western Nebraska State, hmmm), then EC's, the LOR's.

What sets one apart on paper: current marriage status (children?), work history (other medical a plus), foreign travel, languages spoken, personal statement (more cogent, the better), outside interests (sports played too), and any other specifics not seen in other apps. Most importantly: does the medical school applicant look capable at excelling at the next level, would I want to receive care from this person in seven years time (yes, just a vague impression)? What I don't consider: anyone with a criminal background/conviction/moral turpitude; anything to do with diversity, or disadvantages-- leave that to other reviews.

 

[jebelali]

Interesting.