Random admissions process?

[causalinference]

Help me understand something.

I keep hearing about people with exceptional profiles being outright rejected by schools that they should be able to get into. In another thread, someone with a 37 MCAT, 4.00 GPA, and exceptional ECs was rejected by a lot of schools without interviews.

And yet, if you look at the admissions data for any top school (say, University of Chicago), most of the applicants that they accept have MCAT scores around 34. In the case of Pritzker, they explicitlity state that most of their acceptances have MCAT scores between 32-34. Presumably their ECs aren't so amazing that it automatically overrides other applicants with better numbers.

What is going on? I don't understand the reasoning behind rejecting people with excellent applications while simultaneously admitting candidates who have inferior applications.

I'm assuming that part of it must be poor interviewing.

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[Muppet Show]

From the AA threads we know that none of us can judge an applicant if we don't see the whole application.

 

[Caesar]

Help me understand something.

I keep hearing about people with exceptional profiles being outright rejected by schools that they should be able to get into. In another thread, someone with a 37 MCAT, 4.00 GPA, and exceptional ECs was rejected by a lot of schools without interviews.

And yet, if you look at the admissions data for any top school (say, University of Chicago), most of the applicants that they accept have MCAT scores around 34. In the case of Pritzker, they explicitlity state that most of their acceptances have MCAT scores between 32-34. Presumably their ECs aren't so amazing that it automatically overrides other applicants with better numbers.

What is going on? I don't understand the reasoning behind rejecting people with excellent applications while simultaneously admitting candidates who have inferior applications.

I'm assuming that part of it must be poor interviewing.

Take everything you read about people's stats with this: .
The worlds largest grain of salt.

Fact is everything is self reported. Do people with high stats get rejected from schools? Yes. It just goes to show you that schools look for the best applicants, and not the applicants with the best stats.\

(3,000!)

 

[russellfx]

I also think some people may lie about their stats.. for what reason? Idk.

 

[URHere]

I think something you need to remember is that there is more to an application than a GPA and MCAT score. While most people with a high GPA and a fabulous MCAT may have no trouble getting into school somewhere, I think a couple of things could lead to them being denied acceptance.

1) If the person has amazing stats but NOTHING ELSE, it is going to be very hard for them to find an acceptance most places. Personality does come through in the form of Personal Statements, LORs, and extracurriculars. If these things are sub par, they are an easy way for top tier schools to weed out prospectives. When they have so many applicants with flawless stats, cutting the ones without personality isn't so hard to do.

2) Many people with amazing stats get a little bit cocky and apply to ONLY top ten schools. These are the people who would have probably been accepted if they had applied to more places (including non top 20 schools).

There may be the odd applicant here or there with an all around great record who applied intelligently but didn't get in, but I think that most of the rejected applicants with perfect stats fit into one of the categories above.

Other than that, each school has its own formula for figuring out whom to accept. Admitted students added up to being "better all around" than non-admitted applicants in the eyes of the ad com. I can't tell you exactly what that means, but it really isn't random.

 

[HoboCommander]

That's because a lot of the 4.0/40+ applicants have no personality, and it shows during the interviews. They have some sort of social anxiety and don't know how to communicate. These people are better off being a patient rather than becoming a doctor, and so all the med schools reject them.

 

[doomknight]

Hopefully my low GPA will tell adcoms that I have a great personality, and can study hard if need be (cough 3 weeks for mcat, 4 hours a day).

I've never studied this hard in my life, it was tough. Last time was self learning and testing out of geometry in middle school

 

[HumidBeing]

Help me understand something.

I keep hearing about people with exceptional profiles being outright rejected by schools that they should be able to get into. In another thread, someone with a 37 MCAT, 4.00 GPA, and exceptional ECs was rejected by a lot of schools without interviews.

And yet, if you look at the admissions data for any top school (say, University of Chicago), most of the applicants that they accept have MCAT scores around 34. In the case of Pritzker, they explicitlity state that most of their acceptances have MCAT scores between 32-34. Presumably their ECs aren't so amazing that it automatically overrides other applicants with better numbers.

What is going on? I don't understand the reasoning behind rejecting people with excellent applications while simultaneously admitting candidates who have inferior applications.

I'm assuming that part of it must be poor interviewing.

Numbers may be the first consideration, but not the ONLY consideration when comparing applications. It's a package deal that combines other important elements such as the LOR's, PS, all the other components of the application, and the interview. Then you toss into the mix the schools' efforts to compile diverse classes while selecting students who they believe are well matched to the school specific goals and personality, and you wind up with something that seems from the outside to be more random than it is.

 

[Maxwell Edison]

We are all working under a couple assumptions here that are invalid. Consider this: if you had a 4.0/37 and you applied to the same school ten times, how many times do you think you would get in? Seven? Two? Ten? I personally think that it is unlikely that in a controlled situation, the same applicant would be accepted ten times out of ten. Granted, the stats are good, so let's assume nine times out of ten.

Conversely, this means that one time out of ten the person will NOT be accepted. So when you hear the 4.0/37 student did not get accepted (assuming that the stats are correctly reported) it's not unexpected; just unlikely.

In this sense, the process is indeed a random one, but not in the sense that everyone has an equal chance ("Hey Bob! Pick an application...any application!"). It's random in the sense that even with awesome stats, you may find the outcome you experience to be the one that is least likely.

 

[HoboCommander]

We are all working under a couple assumptions here that are invalid. Consider this: if you had a 4.0/37 and you applied to the same school ten times, how many times do you think you would get in? Seven? Two? Ten? I personally think that it is unlikely that in a controlled situation, the same applicant would be accepted ten times out of ten. Granted, the stats are good, so let's assume nine times out of ten.

Conversely, this means that one time out of ten the person will NOT be accepted. So when you hear the 4.0/37 student did not get accepted (assuming that the stats are correctly reported) it's not unexpected; just unlikely.

In this sense, the process is indeed a random one, but not in the sense that everyone has an equal chance ("Hey Bob! Pick an application...any application!"). It's random in the sense that even with awesome stats, you may find the outcome you experience to be the one that is least likely.

No no, we've actually had 4.0/40+ students here on SDN that got into zero out of 15 or more schools applied to. These horror stories happen, and happen often.

 

[p30doc]

No no, we've actually had 4.0/40+ students here on SDN that got into zero out of 15 or more schools applied to. These horror stories happen, and happen often.

phew thank god I don't have a 4.0/40+ then =)

 

[Caesar]

As I said before, and will say for years to come, it's the applicant that gets into schools, not the application.

 

[bigman225]

No no, we've actually had 4.0/40+ students here on SDN that got into zero out of 15 or more schools applied to. These horror stories happen, and happen often.

How do you define "often?" Most people who are smart and hard working enough to accumulate statistics like these don't neglect other aspects of their application. Sure, nobody is getting pre-interview accepts because their MCAT.. but if you look at the AMSAR, there is an undeniably favorable correlation between GPA/MCAT and admission. Also, socially awkward people get into medical school all the time, and I would think coming off as an arrogant jerk or fratboy would be more damaging.

Of course it takes more than just numbers to get into top 10 schools, but I think amazing numbers and decent ECs with a non-toxic personality are probably sufficient for a top 50 acceptance if you apply broadly (based on my amateur perusing of mdapps)

 

[paranoid_eyes]

As I said before, and will say for years to come, it's the applicant that gets into schools, not the application.

we should seriously tattoo this to our arm on interview day. very well put

 

[Maxwell Edison]

No no, we've actually had 4.0/40+ students here on SDN that got into zero out of 15 or more schools applied to. These horror stories happen, and happen often.

And like I said, it's not impossible, just unlikely. It happens.

 

[calnation]

I also think some people may lie about their stats.. for what reason? Idk.

people lie about their stats to gain anonymity.

they usually lie with higher stats so that they don't lose any sdn street credit whenever they have a question

 

[mtrks]

There should be a release MCAT score to SDN option on the official site

 

[JDOC13]

Just because someone has high stats doesn't mean they have any real passion for medicine, which will come out in the personal statement/interview (not to mention, socially inept-ness).

 

[AmoryBlaine]

Unpredictable =/= random