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Rank during ADT's
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If you did indeed get officially promoted to 1LT in med school and you choose to wear it, I'm make sure you had all supporting documentation on you to prove it.
I'm not aware of any promotions to any higher grades during med school. I've not seen it in any message or instruction for HPSP in regards to such. I am a former Navy LT (O-3) and took the downgrade to O-1 like everyone else. I would be very interested in seeing somewhere in writing that promotions while on HPSP occur.
ROTC buys you jack for promotion, it simply was the avenue to which you were initially commissioned.
My understanding is that we all stay O-1 until graduation, then promoted to O-3.
I'm not aware of any promotions to any higher grades during med school. I've not seen it in any message or instruction for HPSP in regards to such. I am a former Navy LT (O-3) and took the downgrade to O-1 like everyone else. I would be very interested in seeing somewhere in writing that promotions while on HPSP occur.
ROTC buys you jack for promotion, it simply was the avenue to which you were initially commissioned.
My understanding is that we all stay O-1 until graduation, then promoted to O-3.
????
Never heard of an O-2 medical corps officer. I went from O-3 to O-1 for med school, then put on O-4 soon after internship. You had better double check on the correctness of this, as if they pay you for O-2, you may have to repay it.
I've seen O-5s go to med school, where they remain O-1s throughout MS1-4 years.
If it is legit, wear it, and collect the $$$.
Never heard of an O-2 medical corps officer. I went from O-3 to O-1 for med school, then put on O-4 soon after internship. You had better double check on the correctness of this, as if they pay you for O-2, you may have to repay it.
I've seen O-5s go to med school, where they remain O-1s throughout MS1-4 years.
If it is legit, wear it, and collect the $$$.
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I went through the pain of USAFA and was active duty for 8 years. And you know what that gets me as an HPSP med student: nothing. I'm an 0-1 like the rest of us miserable students. PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF (insert anything here), TELL US HOW TO GET PROMOTED TO THAT COVETED RANK OF 1LT and receive all the rights, powers, and authority pertaining thereto!!!
Well, the thing is, I'm not doing HPSP, I'm simply on an education delay from my ROTC obligation. Therefore, I'm in the reserves (I think). I was also pretty surprised when I got a letter in the mail after my second year of med school saying that I'd been promoted to 1st LT, but my online military record on the mods.army.mil webpage says that I'm a 1st LT too.
Sledge2005 said:
that's about the only way i thought you could do it. i had a 4 year ROTC scholarship and went into HPSP and all i have to show for the ROTC is 4 extra active duty and IRR years, more confidence at OBC and more documents to show people for my files
honestly, i don't think it will matter much either way, esp at WRAMC. i definitely wouldn't wear CPT rank because that's what all us PGY's are-- unless you want to be mistaken for a physician already, lol. first lieutenants are rare. i can probably count on one hand how mant i've seen there since intern orientation started. not really sure why-- just an observation. anyway, since most medical students are "lieutenants" i don't see how wearing 1LT would hurt. CPT i would be a little more weary of (just because people may confuse you with a physician), but if you earned it i don't see how anyone would have a problem with it.
Sledge2005 said:
If you're a 1LT, you'd be out of uniform wearing 2LT bars. Just as you would wearing Generals stars.
A 2LT isn't expected to know anything. A 1LT isn't expected to know much more but you can get away w/ anything as a butter bar and claim ignorance. There's no more prestige to wearing 1LT than 2LT, believe me. But if you've earned it, wear it. And I'd carry the documentation around w/ me, too. Then after you've been jacked up, you can respectively show the senior officer your paperwork. 
I am currently a CPT/0-3 and an HPSP recipient (prior service Army Reserve MS officer prior to beginning medical school). When I signed my HPSP contract I retained my grade of CPT/0-3. While I am paid as a 2LT during ADT, I am paid at the 12 year level. The HPSP hanbook is clear regarding the wear of rank while on ADT (see below). In my opinion just relax, be a medical student and wear the butter bar; no one expects a 2LT to know anything and there is no reason to pull rank while a medical student on ADT.
HPSP Handbook
CHAPTER 4 ADT
b. Active duty for training (ADT). This is ADT performed at government expense and must be conducted in accordance with the requirements and procedures described in this chapter.
(1) Although some prior service participants may hold a higher grade, the ADT is performed wearing the rank and receiving the pay of a second lieutenant (2LT).
HPSP Handbook
CHAPTER 4 ADT
b. Active duty for training (ADT). This is ADT performed at government expense and must be conducted in accordance with the requirements and procedures described in this chapter.
(1) Although some prior service participants may hold a higher grade, the ADT is performed wearing the rank and receiving the pay of a second lieutenant (2LT).
How did you scam getting payed 0-1 w/ 12 years?
Heeed!
You should have been paid during your AT periods as "O-1 over (# of years your served prior on AD)". If not, the AF owes you some money. Most likely your AF HPSP office doesn't have your DD-214 and hence DFAS doesn't know that you're not simply a newby. Look at your Leave & Earning Statement (LES) and see if it have your years of service correct.
I'm having to do that on the Navy side.
You should have been paid during your AT periods as "O-1 over (# of years your served prior on AD)". If not, the AF owes you some money. Most likely your AF HPSP office doesn't have your DD-214 and hence DFAS doesn't know that you're not simply a newby. Look at your Leave & Earning Statement (LES) and see if it have your years of service correct.
I'm having to do that on the Navy side.
cptms said:
Thanks for the info!
cptms,
How did you retain O-3, but get paid as an O-1? I did HPSP with a very similiar situation, as did many of my intern friends, and the navy dropped us all back to O-1. It was rumored that you were entitled to your previously commissioned rank, not pay, but was never verified. I found it much easier to run around as a dumb ensign, than to fight the system, get my LT and be confused with a physician during rotations.
Everyone with prior AD time, while doing their ATs, should be paid as an O-1 over XXX years. If prior enlisted for the required amount of time, it should be O-1E pay. They will owe you money if you were underpaid and can easily (somewhat) be rectified by providing another copy of your DD214 to your HPSP people.
How did you retain O-3, but get paid as an O-1? I did HPSP with a very similiar situation, as did many of my intern friends, and the navy dropped us all back to O-1. It was rumored that you were entitled to your previously commissioned rank, not pay, but was never verified. I found it much easier to run around as a dumb ensign, than to fight the system, get my LT and be confused with a physician during rotations.
Everyone with prior AD time, while doing their ATs, should be paid as an O-1 over XXX years. If prior enlisted for the required amount of time, it should be O-1E pay. They will owe you money if you were underpaid and can easily (somewhat) be rectified by providing another copy of your DD214 to your HPSP people.
Globus P said:
Heeed!
Globus P is correct and if you can document the discrep. you are owed some back pay. I had to fight with DFAS and the HPSP folks to get my PEBD correct (eight year enlisted obligation plus four years as an officer). Prepare a DA 1506 to correct these dates with attached supporting documents and send it to DFAS and HPSP admin. for processing. Once the DA 1506 and supporting documentation are received, corrections to the military pay account should reflect in approximately 30 days. However, this will only correct things going forward so you have to stay on them to actually cut the back pay they owe you. I had to take my paperwork to the IG in order to get what they owed me.
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r90t said:
I refused to sign the contract until it reflected my retained rank. If you read the Army HPSP handbook it recites that you may be entitled to keep your current grade but that the recruiter and HPSP (for the OTSG) must: (1) approve the retained grade, and (2) the new oath/contract must reflect the retained grade. Because I was still in the reserves and an MS officer I didn't have to sign a new oath so upon signing contract reciting my retained 0-3 grade they simply transferred me to the OADO control group from my TPU position as a CPT.
Sorry for all of the military acronyms, but I think you get the point. You have to ask for what you want and what you are entitled to. In my experience all they can say is "no".
The amount of pay we receive while in HPSP is statutory: the monthly amount ~1050mo. is the same for everyone and the ADT pay for everyone regardless of grade is that of a 2LT. The only difference to this scheme is that during ADT you retain your years of service as reflected by your PEBD.
I just called Gene Williamson out in Colorado. He confirmed my exalted pay status but needed me to send him a copy of my DD 214 proving my AD time and separation. Can't wait for those big $$$ to start flowing!!! Thanks to all the posters who have helped me turn my tiny billfold into a respectable Castanza-sized wallet!
I helped plant the seed too! Where's the money?
