rank list help

[docsleeper]

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Can someone please give their opinion from what they have heard or interviewed at on how they would rank the following places..Im having a difficult time deciding between location over reputation. Please advise concerning national reputation and your rank opinion. Thanks
Univ of Pitt
Univ of Rochester
Penn state
VCU
SUny Upstate
Albany
Buffalo
Wayne state
Drexel
Case Western Metro health

 

[lushmd]

So, I'm hardly impartial as I'm UPMC bound, but I think its reasonable to propose that UPMC is the cream of that list.

 

[docsleeper]

did u match into the advanced program and did a transitional year elsewhere and do you recommend that in gerneral versus ranking a categorical first.

 

[lushmd]

For a given program, I did rank advanced ahead of categorical due to wanting to stay in my present location for an additional yr for personal reasons. If that's not an issue for you, then I suppose it would largely come down to the location and quality of the CBYs at the various programs you're considering. Some of them are quite well planned while others basically shoe-horn you into a prelim med or surg yr (UPMC falls into the former category of very well thought out CBYs).

 

[bigdan]

I only interviewed at your first two listed programs, but and liked them both (in fact, I LOVED Pitt).

Rochester is very close to home for me. Weather is cold...seems like you don't mind with the rest of your list, so you already know that. I have a friend that's a CA1 there now, and he's very happy there. Another friend is a Ob resident, and she's loving the little bit of life she has outside of the hospital there, so I think it's very very easy to live there. Training-wise, the program is awesome, right? All the transplants, a good deal of trauma, including the knife and gun club. Some of the residents are in a kickball league, so they can't be beating them up too badly. Downside is that they know the chairman is leaving soon, and although he's helping to pick his successor, there's still no telling how that ship will sail. I would end up a happy camper there.

Pitt. Ah, Pitt. I'm smitten. THAT volume, all those hospitals, that sim center, the Italian rotation, the committment to teaching, etc...all with 15 residents per year. Cheap city to live in, I'm a huge Penguins fan, rumor has it the football team ain't half bad. All the fellowships you can shake a stick at. Great research, still seems to be doing well in this economy...I think if location (SO, family, whatever) is no issue, Pitt - in my heavily biased mind - is the best program that you have listed, and one of the top programs in the US.

dc

 

[fakin' the funk]

Univ of Pitt
Univ of Rochester
Penn state
VCU
SUny Upstate
Albany
Buffalo
Wayne state
Drexel
Case Western Metro health

Pitt and Rochester, brother. There's a reason they're at the top of your list 😀

 

[sethco]

UPMC #1!!!!!!!!!

 

[docsleeper]

Thanks for the opinions..Yah pitt and rochester are very good in my opinion also..can anyone gve any advice concerning what order to rank albany, penn state and vcu..I know albany and vcu are better locations then penn state but both albany and vcu have little to no fellowships and arent that well known.. Penn state is a pretty well known program with great fellowships and strong diversity of training.Its in Hershey though..Big problem for a single guy..Is it better to choose location over the possibility of getting inot fellowship and landind a better job?

 

[sethco]

Thanks for the opinions..Yah pitt and rochester are very good in my opinion also..can anyone gve any advice concerning what order to rank albany, penn state and vcu..I know albany and vcu are better locations then penn state but both albany and vcu have little to no fellowships and arent that well known.. Penn state is a pretty well known program with great fellowships and strong diversity of training.Its in Hershey though..Big problem for a single guy..Is it better to choose location over the possibility of getting inot fellowship and landind a better job?

I've lived in B-more and Richmond, so I have a different viewpoint. I like the Penn St location the best of the 3, but I admit I have never been to Albany. Hershey is very close to Harrisburg and is only about a 45 min drive to Baltimore. Penn St may have the better reputation, but not by leaps and bounds. In addition, Richmond isn't the best place either for a single guy. But then again, neither is Rochester. Drexel was probably the best place on your list for the single life. However, among the three you listed, I would probably choose Penn St, VCU, and then Albany if we are just choosing based on a combo of reputation, fellowship oppurtunity, and location.

 

[proman]

I'm a fan of Pitt.

 

[docsleeper]

the residents at penn state don't seem to be having any trouble picking up chicks...

you know residents there? all the ones i met were married or had kids..Boring!!!

 

[fascinoma]

Can someone please give their opinion from what they have heard or interviewed at on how they would rank the following places..Im having a difficult time deciding between location over reputation. Please advise concerning national reputation and your rank opinion. Thanks
Univ of Pitt
Univ of Rochester
Penn state
VCU
SUny Upstate
Albany
Buffalo
Wayne state
Drexel
Case Western Metro health

From your list, I only interviewed at Pitt and Penn State. I thought Pitt was probably one of the best programs I'd seen hands down. They put up great numbers, seemed happy, and the PD was a really nice guy who was focused on education.

I also liked Penn State, but at the end of interview season Pitt was on my top tier, Penn State was on my 2nd. That, and as someone also mentioned, there was a really heavy focus on having and raising a family at Penn State, which as a single person, did not work to recruit me.

 

[seamonkey]

of your list that I interviewed at last year:

Albany - nicest people. I lived there for a year before med school...cold, small town, but it grows on you, and upstate NY is amazing if you like to be outdoors.....but it is cold.

Penn State - really nice program, but everyone there was married and settled down...Harrisburg was the closest stuff to do...if you are single it may be boring

Richmond - dont know VCU, but lived there some years ago....not bad, but not amazing either

Pitt - don't know the program but love the town

 

[Gaseous Clay]

I am a current Case-Metrohealth resident. I'll try to keep this brief.

We are a smaller program, 7 residents/year. We have CRNAs and AAs and maybe about 25 Attendings. Our program is dedicated to Resident education. Having mid level providers allows us to get out of our cases every Wed and Thurs from 1-2 pm for lecture. It is very easy to get time off since the ORs are not dependent on Residents. We get our #'s by about halfway through CA2 year (except for ages 1-12 maybe).

Starting October of CA1, we start subspecialties, so you maybe doing CT after 3 months. This isn't watch the Attending, senior resident, or fellow (of which we have none which I think is a huge plus). This is you running the case for the most part (you get paired with a senior for maybe the first 2 or 3 hearts). We get outstanding clinical experience. We are a teaching institution. For the most part, the surgeons are actually quite patient with us. We do a ton of elective FOBI for the experience and we have Attendings who love to teach that to us.

We are the only level I in Cleveland. Honestly, traumas suck but they make you a lot better when all is said and done. We have a great atmosphere. There are maybe only 2 or 3 surgeons I can't stand, and even then, they are softies compared to anywhere else. We get along great with the AA's and CRNA's. We hangout with the Attendings and have flag football teams and get groups together for social events.

Our pain experience is outstanding. It is a busy practice and we get to do a lot of procedures. Our main Pain doc is incredibly well connected.

Research is there if you want it but not pushed on us. We can actually do up to 6 months of pure research as a CA3, how many programs allow that? We have well published Attendings. Our Chairman actually works in the OR and takes call. He is a great person to work with and will bend over backwards to help you out. I heard he will personally make as many phone calls as he needs to help you get a competitive fellowship.

We had a 100% pass rate of written boards last year. Between the CA2 and 3's, our average ITE % was around 75%. Our program is geared so that CA1's stay later, 2's less, and 3's are likely to be gone by 3, maybe 4 PM at the LATEST. I like this, as CA3 is when your skills are pretty darn good and you want more time to study (or hit the local happy hour).

Cons: no transplants at Metro but we can do a month at University hospital. No Peds hearts, but unless you want to do that for a living, I don't think that is necessary. And last but not least, it's CLEVELAND.

 

[bigdan]

Nice review, Gaseous! Thanks

dc

 

[docsleeper]

Need more advice between what order to rank penn state, albany and vcu..albany is much more convenient location for me, but i feel as though penn states program is stronger, and for VCU the moonlighting opportunities is the main draw there..not to familiar with how living in richmond would be for a single guy..Please any more thoughts on these three would be very helpful.

 

[proman]

Don't rank a program based on moonlighting.

 

[bigdan]

proman -

I always thought that a bit ironic: we seem to whine incessantly about who's hours are "malignant" but then give extra credit to the place that will allow us to work MORE hours (albeit for more money).

dc

 

[plasminogen]

1

 

[plasminogen]

proman -

I always thought that a bit ironic: we seem to whine incessantly about who's hours are "malignant" but then give extra credit to the place that will allow us to work MORE hours (albeit for more money).

dc

it's different when you can pick when you're going to work extra, and if you need to work extra because you need more experience in a certain area, more cases, or more money... it's nice to have an adult choice for once.

 

[bigdan]

it's different when you can pick when you're going to work extra, and if you need to work extra because you need more experience in a certain area, more cases, or more money... it's nice to have an adult choice for once.

I suppose. You think you pick the cases/experiences when you moonlight?

 

[bigdan]

was hoping for advice on my rank list

1- Virginia Commonwealth University
Convenient place to live, program is good, complicated cases. Hours are great, moonlighting available.
Biggest concern is the lack of pediatric experience.

2- Vermont
Nice place/hospital. Good teaching, good pediatrics.
Really small. No heart/liver transplants, but can rotate in Boston for these. Really cold.

3- Dartmouth
Nice place/hospital, high cost of living. Strong teaching, involved with politics.
Biggest concern is lack of complicated cases and few traumas. Also concerned about how cold and expensive the place is, hand written orders, no moonlighting. Really small program.

4- Columbia
The perfect program.. great teaching, hours, cases.
Located in New York City, which is just too big, too busy, too expensive. Subsidized housing is supposed to be ok, but in dangerous area.

5 - Penn State
Good program, good teaching, complicated cases.
Rough hours and not the same fame as cleveland clinic.

6 - Cleveland clinic
Great complicated cases, poor didactics.
Rough hours and call schedule (although still less than the average internal med program). Ugly place to live but affordable.

7- Rochester
Good program, good teaching, complicated cases.
Located in a place with too much snow and cold weather without a garage in the hospital. Old arquitecture in the city, ugly. Operating rooms are in the basement.

8 - Case western
Good program, good teaching, complicated cases, nice hours.
Located in Cleveland, but pretty area. No adult traumas. Residents were a little too nice/nerdy.. they kind of creeped me out, but I got along with fellow interviewees just fine. 5 months of medicine in first year, which sucks.

9 - Thomas Jefferson
Good program, good hours, complicated cases, rotate through Children's Hospital.
Bad didacts, located in philadelphia.. it's expensive, and it's a city. Advanced slots only, which means I'd have to do a hard 1st year elsewhere.

10 - Albany
Good didactics, great hours.
Small program (6 residents/year), no complicated cases, old new york houses. No moonlighting so you can't supplement the hours for more teaching... Felt like this program was too easy, but I think the residents are well educated anyways.

11 - Pittsburgh Mercy
Good call/1 day per month for studying, cute hospital, rotate through Pittsburgh, easy to get Pitt peds fellowship.
Pittsburgh is a city. Rough hours. Really small (5 residents/year), no complicated cases, bad didacts, few peds cases. Advanced slots only.

12 - Stony brook
Nice people, great location (although expensive), good peds, good teaching.
No complicated cases, although can do away rotation for this. High hours, high calls. Seemed like they work too hard for not having the big name or the complicated cases.

13 - St. Lukes
OK program in Manhatan.

14 - Baystate
Lots of cases, work too hard and kind of weird.. Springfield is a dump.

15 - Buffalo
Good program, but rotate through too many hospitals, residents seemed iffy, and weird place to live.


disclaimer: when I say "work too hard" I mean too many hours... I'm a big fan of working really hard for an average amount of hours.

Wow. I'd completely redo this list, based on what I've seen.

My two cents are: I'd put Columbia, Cleveland Clinic and U Rochester in your top 3, although your description of each doesn't make it seem like you're sold on any one program.

Columbia gives you all the name you could want, with what seems like awesome training. If you don't like Manhattan, then you don't like Manhattan. I'm not much of an NYC guy myself, so I hear you. Knocks SLR off the list too, however.

CCF gives AWESOME training. Those residents are anesthesia all-stars when they're done. Ugly city perhaps, but have you seen the suburbs around there? I mean like 10 - 15 minutes away? Not too shabby from the little I saw rotating there.

Rochester is a gem. Cold for sure. The ORs may be in the basement, but that compares to what? All the programs with ORs with a view of the beach? Great transplant, great trauma, what seems like great CCM, and very happy residents. I actually like the city a good deal. You can find a good time out and about, and the people are great.

Good luck with the list!

dc

 

[docsleeper]

was hoping for advice on my rank list

1- Virginia Commonwealth University
Convenient place to live, program is good, complicated cases. Hours are great, moonlighting available.
Biggest concern is the lack of pediatric experience.

2- Vermont
Nice place/hospital. Good teaching, good pediatrics.
Really small. No heart/liver transplants, but can rotate in Boston for these. Really cold.

3- Dartmouth
Nice place/hospital, high cost of living. Strong teaching, involved with politics.
Biggest concern is lack of complicated cases and few traumas. Also concerned about how cold and expensive the place is, hand written orders, no moonlighting. Really small program.

4- Columbia
The perfect program.. great teaching, hours, cases.
Located in New York City, which is just too big, too busy, too expensive. Subsidized housing is supposed to be ok, but in dangerous area.

5 - Penn State
Good program, good teaching, complicated cases.
Rough hours and not the same fame as cleveland clinic.

6 - Cleveland clinic
Great complicated cases, poor didactics.
Rough hours and call schedule (although still less than the average internal med program). Ugly place to live but affordable.

7- Rochester
Good program, good teaching, complicated cases.
Located in a place with too much snow and cold weather without a garage in the hospital. Old arquitecture in the city, ugly. Operating rooms are in the basement.

8 - Case western
Good program, good teaching, complicated cases, nice hours.
Located in Cleveland, but pretty area. No adult traumas. Residents were a little too nice/nerdy.. they kind of creeped me out, but I got along with fellow interviewees just fine. 5 months of medicine in first year, which sucks.

9 - Thomas Jefferson
Good program, good hours, complicated cases, rotate through Children's Hospital.
Bad didacts, located in philadelphia.. it's expensive, and it's a city. Advanced slots only, which means I'd have to do a hard 1st year elsewhere.

10 - Albany
Good didactics, great hours.
Small program (6 residents/year), no complicated cases, old new york houses. No moonlighting so you can't supplement the hours for more teaching... Felt like this program was too easy, but I think the residents are well educated anyways.

11 - Pittsburgh Mercy
Good call/1 day per month for studying, cute hospital, rotate through Pittsburgh, easy to get Pitt peds fellowship.
Pittsburgh is a city. Rough hours. Really small (5 residents/year), no complicated cases, bad didacts, few peds cases. Advanced slots only.

12 - Stony brook
Nice people, great location (although expensive), good peds, good teaching.
No complicated cases, although can do away rotation for this. High hours, high calls. Seemed like they work too hard for not having the big name or the complicated cases.

13 - St. Lukes
OK program in Manhatan.

14 - Baystate
Lots of cases, work too hard and kind of weird.. Springfield is a dump.

15 - Buffalo
Good program, but rotate through too many hospitals, residents seemed iffy, and weird place to live.


disclaimer: when I say "work too hard" I mean too many hours... I'm a big fan of working really hard for an average amount of hours.

Can someone comment quickly on the hours at Penn state.. This isnt the first person that said the hours were long but I really couldnt get a good idea of hours per week or on call schedule from the interview.. Please any quick thoughts would be helpful..I didnt think the hours were that bad from the residents..

 

[SaintFrances]

Can someone comment quickly on the hours at Penn state.. This isnt the first person that said the hours were long but I really couldnt get a good idea of hours per week or on call schedule from the interview.. Please any quick thoughts would be helpful..I didnt think the hours were that bad from the residents..

I point blank asked one of the chief residents on interview day. Mind you he was really happy with the program and he keeps a log of his hours. He said the average overall was about 62 hours per week.

 

[welovelamarodom]

I point blank asked one of the chief residents on interview day. Mind you he was really happy with the program and he keeps a log of his hours. He said the average overall was about 62 hours per week.

during my anesthesia AI at PSU i'd say 62 is almost right on point. their calls arent always the most cush in the world, but they're usually decent about getting people out by 5pm. the problem is, the hospital increases the volume of total cases by 3% qyr, which makes it very difficult for everyone to keep up with the sheer volume. They're also very good about getting you out by 6am post-call, so i can't see you going over maybe 65-70 in a normal OR week.

 

[treasurefull2]

I am a current Case-Metrohealth resident. I'll try to keep this brief.

We are a smaller program, 7 residents/year. We have CRNAs and AAs and maybe about 25 Attendings. Our program is dedicated to Resident education. Having mid level providers allows us to get out of our cases every Wed and Thurs from 1-2 pm for lecture. It is very easy to get time off since the ORs are not dependent on Residents. We get our #'s by about halfway through CA2 year (except for ages 1-12 maybe).

Starting October of CA1, we start subspecialties, so you maybe doing CT after 3 months. This isn't watch the Attending, senior resident, or fellow (of which we have none which I think is a huge plus). This is you running the case for the most part (you get paired with a senior for maybe the first 2 or 3 hearts). We get outstanding clinical experience. We are a teaching institution. For the most part, the surgeons are actually quite patient with us. We do a ton of elective FOBI for the experience and we have Attendings who love to teach that to us.

We are the only level I in Cleveland. Honestly, traumas suck but they make you a lot better when all is said and done. We have a great atmosphere. There are maybe only 2 or 3 surgeons I can't stand, and even then, they are softies compared to anywhere else. We get along great with the AA's and CRNA's. We hangout with the Attendings and have flag football teams and get groups together for social events.

Our pain experience is outstanding. It is a busy practice and we get to do a lot of procedures. Our main Pain doc is incredibly well connected.

Research is there if you want it but not pushed on us. We can actually do up to 6 months of pure research as a CA3, how many programs allow that? We have well published Attendings. Our Chairman actually works in the OR and takes call. He is a great person to work with and will bend over backwards to help you out. I heard he will personally make as many phone calls as he needs to help you get a competitive fellowship.

We had a 100% pass rate of written boards last year. Between the CA2 and 3's, our average ITE % was around 75%. Our program is geared so that CA1's stay later, 2's less, and 3's are likely to be gone by 3, maybe 4 PM at the LATEST. I like this, as CA3 is when your skills are pretty darn good and you want more time to study (or hit the local happy hour).

Cons: no transplants at Metro but we can do a month at University hospital. No Peds hearts, but unless you want to do that for a living, I don't think that is necessary. And last but not least, it's CLEVELAND.

I interviewed here and I have to say I really loved the place and agree with everything you stated. The program is absolutely great.

For my own personal reason I didn't rank Metrohealth at the top of my list, but this is a place with top-notch training and more importantly, a great atmosphere...