Rank Order List

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organdonor

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  1. Resident [Any Field]
    As of recent rule changes, all residencies are either "all in" or "all out" meaning that either ALL of their spots are included in the match or NONE of them are. Since all spots would have to be in the match, if they make it known that a spot is "saved" for a student from their own program then it would have to be by ranking them high enough to guarantee they match.
     

    gutonc

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    1. Attending Physician
      As of recent rule changes, all residencies are either "all in" or "all out" meaning that either ALL of their spots are included in the match or NONE of them are. Since all spots would have to be in the match, if they make it known that a spot is "saved" for a student from their own program then it would have to be by ranking them high enough to guarantee they match.
      For allo programs this has always been the case.
       

      NotAProgDirector

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        The above posters are correct -- most programs will simply rank some internal candidate high. However, that could result in no internal matches -- since that candidate could prefer to and match elsewhere, and then the program will simply run down its list in order.

        Technically, a program could do this in the match if they wanted. Let's say I have 4 spots, and I want only 1 internal candidate. I could create two "tracks" in my program, called "C1" and "C2" (C = Categorical, this works for any type of position). The C1 track would be for internal candidates, and I would set the quota to 1. The C2 track would be for external candidates, and I would set the quota to 3. Then I would tell all of the internal candidates to rank C1 and C2 as options, and all of the external candidates to rank C2 only (although if they rank C1, nothing bad happens at all, it does nothing). Now I submit two rank lists, C1 with all of my internal candidates and C2 with my externals, and then the internal candidates at the bottom. Last, I set a "reversion" of C1 -> C2 for one position, so that if the C1 spot doesn't fill (no internal candidates take a spot) then I get one more external candidate. After I get my one internal the match will try to get me 3 externals -- if that fails then the internals are at the bottom of the C2 list and I get additional internals.

        This maximizes the chances of getting exactly one internal candidate. But it's confusing, and will likely cause people to screw it up. Hence, I doubt anyone will use it. But I'm a "Match Nerd", so I figured I'd post it.
         
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        gutonc

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        1. Attending Physician
          This maximizes the chances of getting exactly one internal candidate. But it's confusing, and will likely cause people to screw it up. Hence, I doubt anyone will use it. But I'm a "Match Nerd", so I figured I'd post it.

          As a fellow Match Nerd, I love this idea.
           

          Prog86

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            I am applying to both ortho and Prelim Surgery (as backup). So If I interview at 5 ortho programs and 4 prelim Surgery programs

            1. Will I do one rank order list for all 9 of them?
            2. If I were to list all ortho programs first followed by prelims will this increase my matching chances sinces I have 9 in ROL instead of 5?
             

            gutonc

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            1. Attending Physician
              I am applying to both ortho and Prelim Surgery (as backup). So If I interview at 5 ortho programs and 4 prelim Surgery programs

              1. Will I do one rank order list for all 9 of them?
              2. If I were to list all ortho programs first followed by prelims will this increase my matching chances sinces I have 9 in ROL instead of 5?
              Yes.
               

              IMPD

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                The above posters are correct -- most programs will simply rank some internal candidate high. However, that could result in no internal matches -- since that candidate could prefer to and match elsewhere, and then the program will simply run down its list in order.

                Technically, a program could do this in the match if they wanted. Let's say I have 4 spots, and I want only 1 internal candidate. I could create two "tracks" in my program, called "C1" and "C2" (C = Categorical, this works for any type of position). The C1 track would be for internal candidates, and I would set the quota to 1. The C2 track would be for external candidates, and I would set the quota to 3. Then I would tell all of the internal candidates to rank C1 and C2 as options, and all of the external candidates to rank C2 only (although if they rank C1, nothing bad happens at all, it does nothing). Now I submit two rank lists, C1 with all of my internal candidates and C2 with my externals, and then the internal candidates at the bottom. Last, I set a "reversion" of C1 -> C2 for one position, so that if the C1 spot doesn't fill (no internal candidates take a spot) then I get one more external candidate. After I get my one internal the match will try to get me 3 externals -- if that fails then the internals are at the bottom of the C2 list and I get additional internals.

                This maximizes the chances of getting exactly one internal candidate. But it's confusing, and will likely cause people to screw it up. Hence, I doubt anyone will use it. But I'm a "Match Nerd", so I figured I'd post it.

                Love it as well.

                The confusion and "screwing it up" part make this sort of thing unworkable, although in theory it could be extended to create a number of lists.

                Want to gender balance your program? IMG vs AMG balance? Give everyone a different track number to apply to. ;) Just kidding. That would be ridiculous. ;)
                 

                IMPD

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                1. Academic Administration
                  Hey I was wondering when the FINAL rank order is discussed usually by the faculty and residents. BTW mean a RANK party. Is it early feb?

                  Huge variability. I certify our rank list the day before I get on the plane to my sunny vacation. We do continue to discuss some "problematic" rankings right up until I'm getting on the plane. The majority of applicants get ranked as we go, though, because there is no way to really remember applicants.
                   

                  SouthernSurgeon

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                  1. Resident [Any Field]
                    Huge variability. I certify our rank list the day before I get on the plane to my sunny vacation. We do continue to discuss some "problematic" rankings right up until I'm getting on the plane. The majority of applicants get ranked as we go, though, because there is no way to really remember applicants.


                    Yup. Varies at every program, even within the same field.

                    Some rank you the minute you walk out the door (including one surgery program that awkwardly concludes lunch by ushering all the faculty into a conference room where they hold their rank list meeting, leaving a bunch of stunned looking applicants and a program coordinator who tells them all that's the end of the interview day...).

                    Some do paper or online rankings/evaluations and then hash it all out into a final list after interviews are completed.

                    Some do a continuously updated list.

                    Some (smaller fields and programs) just wait until the end and then have one big meeting to do all the ranking at once.
                     
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