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You'll hate that state tax rate also when you become an attending.
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Rank the Texas Medical Schools
- Thread starter DirkN
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You'll hate that state tax rate also when you become an attending.
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That's the curse of having top-tier schools. It takes a great deal of revenue to stay top tier. If you don't have a Harvard-sized endowment or research budget, you need out-of-state or private tuition.
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I haven't interviewed everywhere, but I'll rank based on a combination of what I've seen and what I've heard:
UTSW
Baylor
UTH
UTMB
UTHSCSA
A&M
El Paso
Lubbock
TCOM
The gap between UTSW and Baylor is really close. For that matter, I think Houston and UTMB are also really close (i'm currently having difficulty deciding which I want to rank higher in my match list). And finally, there are no bad schools in Texas. Lubbock and TCOM, the two I put at the bottom, are both excellent schools and people should be very pleased to get a chance at an education from them. Texas is just a fantastic place to be a medical school applicant.
UTSW
Baylor
UTH
UTMB
UTHSCSA
A&M
El Paso
Lubbock
TCOM
The gap between UTSW and Baylor is really close. For that matter, I think Houston and UTMB are also really close (i'm currently having difficulty deciding which I want to rank higher in my match list). And finally, there are no bad schools in Texas. Lubbock and TCOM, the two I put at the bottom, are both excellent schools and people should be very pleased to get a chance at an education from them. Texas is just a fantastic place to be a medical school applicant.
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Do you think the gap between UTH and UTHSCSA is substantial? I'm trying to decide between going to Houston or living at home while attending San Antonio to save 40k (ish).
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I think it boils down to what type of physician you want to be and what populations you want to be working with/learn from. UTHSCSA, for example, produces many students who match to anesthesiology, and offers the opp to gain experience at the VA hospital. On the other hand, UTH has the advantage of the med center and its resources as well a sizeable AAPI population, if that's a demographic you want to work with/learn from.
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AAPI?
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@clairephillips, Asian American and Pacific Islander
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I think every Texas medical school is phenomenal, though to say that TCOM is better than 3-4 other Texas schools is pretty questionable, and I don't think it's a complete "BS reason" that someone picks an MD school over a DO school as long as they liked it to begin with, ill show you why:
@TXdoc18 said it well: “3. maybe the biggest reason: If you don't HAVE to take 2 sets of board exams, attend class (generally) 8-5 everyday, have an extra OMM class you may or may not use, and possibly deal with DO bias, most students won't.”
Check out this NRMP match data:
The 6th most common citing factor according to residency program directors OF ALL SPECIALTIES:
(Notice the competitive residencies obtained by both MD's and DO's)
(I know that's only showing ACGME residencies and that there are also 16 neurosurg, 103 orthopedic surg, 19 plastic surg, and 45 derm AOA residencies that only DO’s match to, plus a few military match positions as well)
As a current medical student, you know that the average USMLE Step 1 is 230. (for reference, USMLE Step 1 by school: TCOM 214, UTHSCSA 225, A&M 228, UTMB 230, TTL 231, UTH 233, TTEP 235, UTSW 236, Baylor 240). For some of the most competitive residencies (where only 3 DO’s matched ACGME derm, 1 DO matched ACGME orthopedic surg, 3 DO’s matched ACGME neurological surg):
Dermatology- mean USMLE Step 1: 247
- MD applicants who scored b/w 221-240: 70/101 matched = 69% matched with slightly below to slightly above avg step 1 scores
Orthopedic surgery- mean USMLE Step 1: 245
- MD applicants who scored b/w 221-230: 47/90 matched = 52% matched with slightly below to avg step 1 scores
Neurological surgery- mean USMLE Step 1: 244
- MD applicants who scored b/w 221-230: 20/24 matched = 83% matched with slightly below to avg step 1 scores
I think it’s a good thing you’re giving due credit to TCOM, as everyone should. After having the privilege to interview there, it’s an awesome school. But to tell someone to essentially “get over the DO bias issue, all schools are equal,” I think it’s a bit more complicated (unfortunately) than that as this data suggests (I don't agree or think it's fair that PD's more commonly factor if an applicant is an MD over grades in clerkships, for example). The schools you mentioned that are worse than TCOM all have higher USMLE scores, match to drastically more competitive residencies, more NIH funding, more research opportunities, are higher ranked (for those that care), and don’t have mandatory classes for the majority of classes.
Data was all from:
http://www.nrmp.org/match-data/main-residency-match-data/
https://natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2014prgstats.html
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The only way we can rank them is by:
1. All 9 current TX schools form a fantasy football league with new M1's from their school.
2. Each schools' champion plays in a ff champions league with the 9 champions of each TX school.
3. School who wins the ff champions league is the best Texas medical school.
1. All 9 current TX schools form a fantasy football league with new M1's from their school.
2. Each schools' champion plays in a ff champions league with the 9 champions of each TX school.
3. School who wins the ff champions league is the best Texas medical school.
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I'm impressed by TTEP due to the astonishingly high Step 1 score relative to the entering student body's MCAT scores. The fact that students at UTSW and Baylor preform well on Step 1 isn't surprising at all; they have been quite successful thus far and there is no reason why they would do poorly on the exam. Entering students in El Paso are an "academic trainwreck" according to SDN standards yet they are able to attain Step 1 scores rival that of UTSW and Baylor.
There seems to be a lot of hate towards TTEP on this thread for whatever reason despite this fact...
MCAT Step1
TTEP 29 235
A&M 31 228
UTHSCA 32 225
UTMB 32 230
TTL 32 231
UTH 32 233
UTSW 35 236
Baylor 36 240
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I LOVED TTEP when I interviewed there! For other reasons, I chose another school, but this is a fabulous, fabulous school!
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Probably because it's in El Paso...
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All the TX cities are fundamentally the same but differ in size. They're all built out instead of up and you would need a car to get around. Austin is like the only city there that is a little more pedestrian friendly.
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The problem with El Paso is that it's far away from just about everywhere else in the state. If I'm in Dallas, it takes me 4 hours to get to Austin, 5 to Houston. If I'm in El Paso... well, I'm buying a Southwest ticket.
I don't think anybody hates or thinks TTEP is a bad school. It's an incredible school that offers many things other schools can't (patient population, great/unique curriculum, city w/ population of 1 million - everything you would need in a city, etc). The city and school itself doesn't lack anything, it's merely the distance from every other major city most of us (and our support system, family, friends) are from or where we prefer to be. You're right though, even though it's a newer school that's only graduated a few classes, their board scores/success are outstanding and they should get a lot of credit for that. I loved their curriculum presentation!
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Yeah, TTEP has some outstanding stats and their curriculum seems to be great.
I wouldn't go there unless it was literally my only option. I'd pick like 5+ out of state DO schools before I went there. Call me ignorant, but if I'm going to be so far from everyone, I might as well be in a sexy location.
I wouldn't go there unless it was literally my only option. I'd pick like 5+ out of state DO schools before I went there. Call me ignorant, but if I'm going to be so far from everyone, I might as well be in a sexy location.
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Almost everyone I talked to that interviewed at TT Foster (myself included) was very pleasantly surprised at how much they liked the school and how excellent their interview day/school overall was, from curriculum, environment, SIM center, and even the city of El Paso. I would encourage everyone applying TMDSAS to at least consider applying there, they will be in for a (positive) surprise. Before interviews began, most people wouldn't even think about ranking TT Foster anywhere but last on their TMDSAS rankings, and after interviews, the school moved up on A LOT of people's list (just check republic of TX thread). It's fair to want to avoid their location, just saying people should give it a chance and see for themselves!
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1. Baylor
2. UTSW
3. UT Houston
4. UT San Antonio
5. UTMB
(Only ranked the ones I interviewed at!)
Even with UTSW's new curriculum and hospitals, I can't justify putting it ahead of Baylor. Being in the TMC, the consistently absurdly high step scores, and the friendly environment for such a top notch school push it way out in the lead (for me at least).
2. UTSW
3. UT Houston
4. UT San Antonio
5. UTMB
(Only ranked the ones I interviewed at!)
Even with UTSW's new curriculum and hospitals, I can't justify putting it ahead of Baylor. Being in the TMC, the consistently absurdly high step scores, and the friendly environment for such a top notch school push it way out in the lead (for me at least).
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Interested in hearing others' opinions and reasoning on their preference when it comes to Baylor and UTSW. Any takers?
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I did not apply to Baylor so take what I say with a grain of salt... But I think UTSW is the better school hands down. Baylor is going through a bunch of financial problems. I heard they lost their partnership with Houston Methodist because of it. Again, I did not apply or interview there or look this info up, this is just something that was told to me.
I don't think you could go wrong with either school personally. Just pick the place you feel more comfortable going to.
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To add from my perspective and from the research I've done beyond what I initially heard: the financial problems are real, but have been mitigated hugely by a merger (technically considered a joint venture) with CHI (also, the Baylor-run clinics are doing well). My thinking is that they're financial issues were much more serious around 4-5 years ago than they are now, but they haven't taken much of a hit. I don't see their medical education all of the sudden taking a hit now that their finances are improving.
Your points on institutional finances are kinda outdated. See https://www.bcm.edu/news/expansion/faq-on-bcm-chi-non-profit-joint-venture. UTSW and BCM's reputations are stellar throughout the country, but is UTSW better "hands down" because they have better finances? Lol, no.
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Ok, ok not "hands down." Like I stated, I know very little about their situation. I was just advising the OP to look into it but it appears he/she already has.
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I think every Texas medical school is phenomenal, though to say that TCOM is better than 3-4 other Texas schools is pretty questionable, and I don't think it's a complete "BS reason" that someone picks an MD school over a DO school as long as they liked it to begin with, ill show you why:
@TXdoc18 said it well: “3. maybe the biggest reason: If you don't HAVE to take 2 sets of board exams, attend class (generally) 8-5 everyday, have an extra OMM class you may or may not use, and possibly deal with DO bias, most students won't.”
Check out this NRMP match data:
The 6th most common citing factor according to residency program directors OF ALL SPECIALTIES:
(Notice the competitive residencies obtained by both MD's and DO's)
(I know that's only showing ACGME residencies and that there are also 16 neurosurg, 103 orthopedic surg, 19 plastic surg, and 45 derm AOA residencies that only DO’s match to, plus a few military match positions as well)
As a current medical student, you know that the average USMLE Step 1 is 230. (for reference, USMLE Step 1 by school: TCOM 214, UTHSCSA 225, A&M 228, UTMB 230, TTL 231, UTH 233, TTEP 235, UTSW 236, Baylor 240). For some of the most competitive residencies (where only 3 DO’s matched ACGME derm, 1 DO matched ACGME orthopedic surg, 3 DO’s matched ACGME neurological surg):
Dermatology- mean USMLE Step 1: 247
- MD applicants who scored b/w 221-240: 70/101 matched = 69% matched with slightly below to slightly above avg step 1 scores
Orthopedic surgery- mean USMLE Step 1: 245
- MD applicants who scored b/w 221-230: 47/90 matched = 52% matched with slightly below to avg step 1 scores
Neurological surgery- mean USMLE Step 1: 244
- MD applicants who scored b/w 221-230: 20/24 matched = 83% matched with slightly below to avg step 1 scores
I think it’s a good thing you’re giving due credit to TCOM, as everyone should. After having the privilege to interview there, it’s an awesome school. But to tell someone to essentially “get over the DO bias issue, all schools are equal,” I think it’s a bit more complicated (unfortunately) than that as this data suggests (I don't agree or think it's fair that PD's more commonly factor if an applicant is an MD over grades in clerkships, for example). The schools you mentioned that are worse than TCOM all have higher USMLE scores, match to drastically more competitive residencies, more NIH funding, more research opportunities, are higher ranked (for those that care), and don’t have mandatory classes for the majority of classes.
Data was all from:
http://www.nrmp.org/match-data/main-residency-match-data/
https://natmatch.com/aoairp/stats/2014prgstats.html
Hi, where did you get the USMLE data from? Thanks!
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At least El Paso is SOMEWHAT close to Tuscon or Albuquerque. Texas Tech is probably the worst offender in the "school is in the absolute middle of nowhere" category.
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Any new opinions since the new schools are finally here? Probably pure speculation since the new schools are unproven, but in terms of ranking them for TMDSAS after interview day:
1. Baylor
2. UTSW
3. UTH McGovern
4. UTHSCSA
5. Texas A&M
6. UTMB
7. UT Dell
8. Texas Tech Lubbock
9. Texas Tech El Paso
10. UT Rio Grande Valley
11. TCOM
Dell could be amazing one day, but I don't think I'd want to attend a brand new school personally.
1. Baylor
2. UTSW
3. UTH McGovern
4. UTHSCSA
5. Texas A&M
6. UTMB
7. UT Dell
8. Texas Tech Lubbock
9. Texas Tech El Paso
10. UT Rio Grande Valley
11. TCOM
Dell could be amazing one day, but I don't think I'd want to attend a brand new school personally.
Tech El Paso should be way higher. The only detractor for the school is distance, not location. Pluses are curriculum, match lists, faculty, and clinicals.
If you aren't set on neurosurgery, TCOM should also be higher.
Dell shouldn't be that high yet. And I say that as a Longhorn.