Ranking Advice

[Cartman]

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Hi everyone.

I am having a hard time ranking these places:

Maine
Vermont
St.Luke's Roosevelt
Drexel
Jefferson
UPMC-Mercy
UMDNJ-Cooper in Camden
Hopkins
Mayo Clinic-Jax
Miami
New Mexico
Arizona
Colorado

Sincere advice greatly appreciated.

 

[HoyaBlue02]

Do you have any specific geographic ties? Do you have a significant other? Weather preferences?

 

[Cartman]

Do you have any specific geographic ties? Do you have a significant other? Weather preferences?

Family ties to all regions above.

No significant other.

No Weather preferences.

Just looking for a benign place with friendly faculty and residents. It was hard to catch the program's personality after one day of interview.

 

[fascinoma]

So, your rank list is just that: your rank list. There's only one person who can decide what program goes into what slot. That's right--Jet. Private message him and he'll break out his abacus and magically come up with your perfect list.

Short of that, here's some free advice:

Rank programs based on where you'd like to spend the next 3-4 years; NOT programs just based on "name" or "prestige." I've seen too many residents get burned that way. Prestige goes right out the window your first night on a brutal call. If you like where you're at, you'll put up with the frustrating nuances much better. The marriage analogy, though frequently used, is appropriate.

If you're not sure about a program, go to their website, give them a call, or visit again. My first 2 interviews I was more worried about having spinach in my teeth or inadvertently sitting in my coffee than I was evaluating the program. At the end of interview season I took some time and re-visited those programs websites and made some calls to clarify things. It was helpful.

However, at the end of the day, it just comes down to your gut feeling. My top 3 ranked programs were all number 1 spots. Hours before the list was due I came up with a geographical vs. cost of living equation (one i basically made up) and came up with the top 3 spots knowing I'd be happy at any of them equally (all for different reasons).

As I tell all the interview candidates who come through my program: I don't want you to match here; I want you to match where you want. Good luck.

 

[NavyFlightDoc]

Don't go to Mayo-Jax. I was directly told this by one of their prior faculty, who is still in academic medicine. It was unsolicited and he knew I hadn't applied there, so he wasn't trying to talk me out of anything.

He was just extremely dissatisfied with his entire experience there.

 

[beavis]

Hi everyone.

I am having a hard time ranking these places:

Maine
Vermont
St.Luke's Roosevelt
Drexel
Jefferson
UPMC-Mercy
UMDNJ-Cooper in Camden
Hopkins
Mayo Clinic-Jax
Miami
New Mexico
Arizona
Colorado

Sincere advice greatly appreciated.

I don't really have any advice to give (especially considering some articulate replies already)....but I will say your screenname and picture made me laugh out loud.

Sincerely,

beavis

 

[titanjones]

My preferences are a strong clinical program, with opportunities to do research if you desired, in a warm climate, so i am immediately biased to the southern states. I match at Jackson Memorial Hospital in Miami, Fl, with is known to be very strong Clinically. As an academic program it is getting better each year; The new vice provost for the University of Miami is an MD from Harvard and was the Chairman of the Dept of Anesthesia in the past, so that bodes well for the future of the program. Also the current chairman was program director from Duke's gas program, which is a sick program.

Maine - COLD
Vermont - wtf am i going to do in vermont besides ski?
St.Luke's Roosevelt
Drexel
Jefferson- heard good things
UPMC-Mercy
UMDNJ-Cooper in Camden - heard good things
Hopkins - good program, but living in Bmore requires a firearm
Mayo Clinic-Jax- i heard its good
Miami - see above
New Mexico
Arizona
Colorado

U have to determine what are your desired strengths in a program. Academic vs Clinical or BOTH?? and u have to comfortable knowing that u can live in that city for the next 3 years.

 

[fakin' the funk]

Maine - COLD
Vermont - wtf am i going to do in vermont besides ski?
St.Luke's Roosevelt
Drexel
Jefferson- heard good things
UPMC-Mercy
UMDNJ-Cooper in Camden - heard good things
Hopkins - good program, but living in Bmore requires a firearm
Mayo Clinic-Jax- i heard its good
Miami - see above
New Mexico
Arizona
Colorado

I only interviewed at 2 of these places, and I can tell you that one was very solid and one was amazing. Ultimately keep in mind that (from talking with residents) location seems to be the primary factor, and then usually the level of resident happiness or a specific specialty of that program (peds, regional, etc.). I personally think it's short-sighted to only think of where you'll be happy the next 3 years since where you go to residency will probably be opening or closing various doors to various career paths for the next 30 years.

Oh, and TJ lives in Miami and is calling out Baltimore as dangerous? C'mon.

 

[darkmansaad]

two words = The Wire

 

[IlDestriero]

.

 

[sethco]

two words = The Wire

I also hear it's dangerous to live in NYC because of the Cloverfield monster 😉

 

[Frank Rizzo]

Don't forget that you've got to be happy there for 3 or 4 years.

VERY IMPORTANT! As a CA-3, I can tell you that liking where I lived and trained has made all the difference. You can get a good training ANYWHERE... if YOU put the time and initiative into it.

 

[jennyboo]

Here's my resident perspective. You have some programs on your list that are known to offer stellar training and some well known academic leaders. You have others that are rumored to be $hitholes or barely getting by (on probation, not meeting case numbers etc). And you have some that are in between.

Be careful with the programs that don't have enough case numbers. Rank the rest according to your personal preferences.

 

[Buckeye Anes]

obviously, you're the only one who can make your rank list, as everyone said... but it's always nice to get other people's 2 cents methinks.

Vermont - loved the program. Great people (res, attendings, ancilliary staff), awesome hospital, great city (lots of things to do, good food) but cold, good connections (lots of residents get awesome fellowships). It's in my top choices.
St.Luke's Roosevelt - Seemed nice, but below average to me. New PD, chairman... Chairman was a big odd/brusk and not open to new ideas. Few complicated cases. Good housing, relatively nice hospital.
Drexel - cancelled interview, heard bad things about it.
Jefferson - Loved it, great PD (brilliant) + chairman (well connected), everyone nice, great hospital, complicated cases, good regional reputation, best location in philly.
UPMC-Mercy - Everyone was nice (residents, PD, chairman), chairman well connected, interesting hospital (catholic, but I found it very homey), will become part of pitt so you'll graduate with a pitt diploma, if you want a pitt fellowship, very easy to get. One reading day per month. Seemed like a good program to me.
UMDNJ-Cooper in Camden - Camden is very dangerous, from what I hunderstand... One of the highest crimes in US.
Hopkins - Nice residents, very interesting cases, slightly longer hours than the average. Obviously top tier/famous. Surgery are def the stronger department.
Miami - Heard it was workhorse, in a dangerous part of city, and cancelled interview. Good clinical training.
New Mexico - I don't know anything about, but I heard hearsay that they're on probation? or close to it?

From your choices, I'd personally rank hopkins, vermont, jefferson, and upmc-mercy somewhere close to top... But again, only you know what's best for you.

From what I understand, while happiness should be the main criteria, having a name behind you does help if you want to move to another region of the country or want a very competitive fellowship. That is, something people in that region will recognize.

You seem a little biased. You mention miami and UMDNJ are in bad areas and that is why you wouldn't rank them. However, you don't mention that every parking garage around Hopkins requires armed guards on the roofs due to the crime....interesting. Don't get blinded by the ivory tower as long as you get your case numbers you can be competitive for the most competitive fellowships coming out of almost anywhere.

 

[Ben Hur 17]

You should rank as follows:


9 - Maine
2 - Vermont
13 - St.Luke's Roosevelt
12 - Drexel
1 - Jefferson
10 - UPMC-Mercy
11 - UMDNJ-Cooper in Camden
3 - Hopkins
4 - Mayo Clinic-Jax
5 - Miami
8 - New Mexico
6 - Arizona
7 - Colorado

Good luck!

 

[climbingdocs]

New Mexico is not on probation, they are approved for 4 years, next review in 2011. I liked the program and if it wasn't for not so pretty Albaquerque I would like it a lot.

 

[Jeff05]

best reputation in philly is definitely not jefferson. it's penn.

if you want benign, st.luke's-roosevelt is NOT the place to be.

 

[fakin' the funk]

You seem a little biased. You mention miami and UMDNJ are in bad areas and that is why you wouldn't rank them. However, you don't mention that every parking garage around Hopkins requires armed guards on the roofs due to the crime....interesting. Don't get blinded by the ivory tower as long as you get your case numbers you can be competitive for the most competitive fellowships coming out of almost anywhere.

Way OT...but I think it's funny what medical students in general view as safe and not safe. Must be the upper-crust background and lack of real-world work experience.

Where Hopkins is ain't pretty...but it ain't Gaza either.

 

[DO4lifer]

Way OT...but I think it's funny what medical students in general view as safe and not safe. Must be the upper-crust background and lack of real-world work experience.

Where Hopkins is ain't pretty...but it ain't Gaza either.

honestly, im sure one can find a "safe part" of any town... there isn't a place in the world you aren't at risk of a breakin if you don't have it on lockdown.

if it was just me, i'd live anywhere close to the hospital. since i got the spouse, i have to think about which part of town is safer. i would never discount the hospital based upon crime rates. otherwise it ends up like OHSU, where the penetrating trauma go to the "other hospital".

 

[Puddle Sign]

if you want benign, st.luke's-roosevelt is NOT the place to be.

Please explain your statement. With the new chair the residents say they are only working about 55-60 hours/week. Also everyone seemed to get along quite well and be happy. They also have graduates going to very solid places for fellowships. Obviously I heard all of the positives on interview day but if you have some insight into the negative aspects, I'd love to hear about those as well. Thanks

 

[treasurefull2]

best reputation in philly is definitely not jefferson. it's penn.

if you want benign, st.luke's-roosevelt is NOT the place to be.

How in the world do you know? And what's your definition of benign?

 

[RxBoy]

1

 

[boggy]

Jeff 05, you seem to constantly comment on Saint Luke's as not being benign --were you ever a resident there? Residents there only work 50-55 hours a week under the new chair. They have hired CRNAs to relieve residents and generally the resident posts from people in the place seem pretty content. The new chair is using the Ochsner model for staffing so the number of CRNAs is increasing each month. The residents have always had the day off after call, take roughly 4 calls per month, have at least two entire weekends free per month, and are now going to be starting OB call at 4 P working until 7 A with the day off starting at 7 and the day off before until 4. Seems as benign as a residency can get and the subsidized housing, diverse resident mix, and Manhattan location are all sort of benign.

 

[Cartman]

Hi everyone.

I am having a hard time ranking these places:

Maine
Vermont
St.Luke's Roosevelt
Drexel
Jefferson
UPMC-Mercy
UMDNJ-Cooper in Camden
Hopkins
Mayo Clinic-Jax
Miami
New Mexico
Arizona
Colorado

Sincere advice greatly appreciated.

Thank you for your opinions, everyone. They were very helpful to me and hopefully for the future applicants.

Any more specific advice on these programs before I finalize the list this week?

 

[lfesiam]

hmmm...did I run into you on the interview trail, cartman? 🙄

these pictures might help:

Maine - beautiful new england seatown with great seafood!

Vermont - beautiful new england mountain and lakes.

St.Luke's Roosevelt - razzle dazzle!

Drexel-Jefferson-UMDNJ-Cooper in Camden (you can actually live in philly, very short commute to cooper via PATCO subway 8min right across the river) - historic!

 

[lfesiam]

UPMC-Mercy - very livable city!

Hopkins - the godfather of modern medicine! very nice suburbs with trader's joe!

Mayo Clinic-Jax - the godmother of modern medicine on beautiful quiet beaches!

Miami - beautiful people on cosmopolitan beaches

 

[lfesiam]

New Mexico - Gorgeous! Something magical about the enchanting southwest atmosphere!

Arizona - Gorgeous! Giant cactuses, gems, fossils, minerals, perfect winter weather!

Colorado - Ski Ski Ski among the beautiful mountains!

 

[Haole]

I totally did the pictures thing with my own rank list on a word doc...didn't change anything, but it was fun!

 

[Mista Suprane]

baltimore

i know most cities have stuff like this, but nowhere NEAR the amount baltimore has. even if you live in suburbs far away, you can't really even get to work (or anywhere, really) without driving through these types of areas - there is no highway on-ramp right next to the hospital. doesn't bother me all that much, i live in the city, about a mile south of the hospital, and drive to work.

to avoid this (if it matters to you) take the train in (which lets you off in the basement of hopkins) and chose a suburb that is close to a train station. many residents, nurses, faculty take the train and it is safe, efficient, reliable, convenient and afffordable (might even be free for residents, not sure).

not trying to scare people away, but you gotta know what you're getting yourself into.

 

[darkmansaad]

yo seriously i grew up in brooklyn so i have seen some bad neighborhoods in my time. i did my surgery rotation in baltimore...WHOOOO WEEE THAT IS HOOD!! No joke get some pics of Hopkins med center...pretty much every block has an armed guard in a booth ready for the hood to pop off; also the buildings are bombed out, i dont know how this happened but it looks like missiles were shot at certain buildings cuz they are missing like pieces of entire floors. Now i loved baltimore and i had the best time this year in the 3 months in balto but unless you took a ride around during ur interview and are ok with the hood you have to factor that in mind.

 

[lfesiam]

Lived in philly years ago, ...north philly/ west philly... that is the hood dude

remember the fresh prince of bel-air? sing it with me now...

---this is the story all about how
My life got flipped, turned upside down
And Id like to take a minute just sit right there
Ill tell you how I became the prince of a town called bel-air

In west philadel"fia" born and raised
On the playground where I spent most of my days
Chilling out, maxing, relaxing all cool
And all shooting some b-ball outside of the school
When a couple of guys said were up in no good
Started making trouble in my neighbourhood
I got in one little fight and my mom got scared
And said youre moving with your aunte and uncle in bel-air

Harbor East in Baltimore (whole foods! whoo hoo!) - up and coming "chic" urban living! - www.harboreast.com

Fell's Point

Federal Hill

 

[Jay K]

Here's my $0.02 as a CA-3 interviewing for jobs right now - it's WAY easier to get a job in the city/area you train. Breaking into a market w/o connections is VERY hard. If one of those training locations you mentioned is where you'd ultimately like to end up, and the program is not too malignant or on probation, then I highly advise ranking that location first.

If you're interested in doing a fellowship, rank programs who have a good track record of placing residents in good fellowships, particularly in the city you'd like to end up as well.

At the end of the day... you gotta get a job, man.

 

[Impromptu]

If you are an outdoor person, Arizona seems to be the place with Colorado close behind. They say you are a 3 hour drive from resort beach area in Mexico. You've got mountains surrounding you with all sorts of trails. You can bike to work most days of the year. The streets are wide and in an actual grid pattern. Between that and the mountains you should never get lost.

You'll be able to see thousands more stars at night than in any of the other areas (maybe excluding New Mexico). Tucson has a huge observatory, so they are very conscious of light pollution.

The facility is new and clean. The children's wing of the hospital is nearly completed. With the recent market downturn, I don't think any of the "planned" construction I was told about at other institutions will actually happen.

The housing market crash is hitting Arizona pretty hard. That means you are going to be able to buy an amazing house. Far nicer than in previous years or in most of the other places you mentioned. Live the American Dream out west.

On the downside, it is an advanced program, and the local transitional program is pretty competitive. If you don't know Spanish, you should probably learn it. I mentioned a bicycle earlier, but it is likely to get stolen within your first year (according to some of the residents during my interview). Finally, they don't have the national prestige that other programs have.

 

[Mista Suprane]

Lived in philly years ago, ...north philly/ west philly... that is the hood dude

you haven't lived in baltimore dude. the hood is just everywhere around you.

i lived in center city philly for two years, and the difference between the two cities is that in philly there is a LARGE contiguous area, where you can live/work/play and be pretty safe. as long as you don't go past the vine st. expressway (although northern liberties is an up and coming area) which you won't unless you match at temple, south of washington, east of the delaware (camden), and past university city, you're fine. that's a 40 block by 20 block area. sure, if you're hanging out way up north at broad and erie, or far west at 60th and market, you might be in trouble, but you have no reason to go there. baltimore has those nice areas you posted, but they are small pockets, and one street over could be like the areas i posted. no joke. you won't have that problem in center city.

you drive through crappy areas in baltimore just to go the store, or wal-mart, or the gym, or work. every day. and none of the neighborhoods in baltimore are as nice as society hill or rittenhouse (maybe a little pricey), or even washington square west (definitely affordable).

as far as stuff to do, yes, there is actually quite a bit in baltimore, and it is definitely growing on me in that respect. the proximity to DC is nice as well. but don't fool yourself, this is the most GHETTO city i've ever seen BY FAR. everyone here should know that. philadelphia and pittsburgh are MUCH better places to live (i lived in both for two years).

 

[Cartman]

I narrowed it down to city size. Location aside, how would you rank the programs within the sub-group?

Big City
Miami
Hopkins
Colorado
Jefferson
St. Luke's

Small City/Town
Univ of Arizona
Mayo-Jax
Univ of New Mexico
Univ Vermont
UPMC-Mercy

- mista/lfesiam, love the pictures BTW, very helpful.

 

[Bertelman]

yo seriously i grew up in brooklyn so i have seen some bad neighborhoods in my time. i did my surgery rotation in baltimore...WHOOOO WEEE THAT IS HOOD!! No joke get some pics of Hopkins med center...pretty much every block has an armed guard in a booth ready for the hood to pop off; also the buildings are bombed out, i dont know how this happened but it looks like missiles were shot at certain buildings cuz they are missing like pieces of entire floors. Now i loved baltimore and i had the best time this year in the 3 months in balto but unless you took a ride around during ur interview and are ok with the hood you have to factor that in mind.

Looks like they have some ninjas now, too.

(CNN) -- A Johns Hopkins University student killed an apparent burglar with a samurai sword after discovering the man in his garage, police said Tuesday.

Baltimore, Maryland, police received a phone call shortly before 1:30 a.m. Tuesday about a suspicious person, and an off-duty officer arrived at the scene with campus security, city police spokesman Anthony Guglielmi said.

When authorities arrived, they heard calls for help and for police, he said. They discovered a suspected burglar with a severed left hand and severe lacerations to his upper body, Guglielmi said.

The suspect died at the scene, he said.

The man had entered a home where several Johns Hopkins students lived, Guglielmi said. Four students, one armed with a samurai sword, had confronted the suspect in the garage.

The man "lunged" at the students, and the student with the sword defended himself, severing the man's left hand and cutting his upper body, Guglielmi said.

Police did not release the name of the suspect, who Guglielmi said had a long criminal history, or that of the student.

Police questioned the three witnesses, Guglielmi said, and released them. It was not immediately clear whether all four students lived at the house, he said.

Authorities are determining whether the student will face criminal charges, Guglielmi said.

Burglars had taken two laptops and a Sony PlayStation from the students' home Monday, Guglielmi said.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/15/samurai.sword.killing/index.html?iref=mpstoryview