Ranking Extracurricular Activities

[Judson]

I was just thinking...

1.) How would you rank the importance of the following extracurriculars?

2.) Are there any you would add?

(In the order I thought of them)

Volunteering
Research
Shadowing
Philanthropy
Teaching Assistant / Tutoring
Medical Internship
Leadership Positions
Publications
Honor Society Involvement
Fraternity/Sorority Involvement
Athletics
Work Experience
Certifications (EMT, CNA, etc.)
Traveling Abroad to Volunteer
Posting on SDN

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[allantois]

Will make you stand out:
Publications

Necessary:
Volunteering
Research
Shadowing

Not necessary but good to have:
Teaching Assistant / Tutoring
Leadership Positions

Not necessary:
Honor Society Involvement
Athletics
Work Experience
Medical internship

Nobody cares:
Fraternity/Sorority Involvement
Certifications (EMT, CNA, etc.)
Traveling Abroad to Volunteer

Would hurt many people if their postings were revealed to med schools 😀:
Posting on SDN

😱
Philanthropy


I would add speaking Spanish for some schools

 

[ThisCouldBeYou]

Right now, since I'm up to my eyeballs with secondaries, I'd also place a high value on certain topics to write about: community effort, what makes you unique, clinical experience, and one of the core-competencies. I've had lots of research in college, but haven't written about any of the projects.

Btw, if you think you should list these activities according to "most important", think again. It's relisted by AMCAS according to your dates and hours.

 

[Judson]

Will make you stand out:
Publications

Necessary:
Volunteering
Research
Shadowing

Not necessary but good to have:
Teaching Assistant / Tutoring
Leadership Positions

Not necessary:
Honor Society Involvement
Athletics
Work Experience
Medical internship

Nobody cares:
Fraternity/Sorority Involvement
Certifications (EMT, CNA, etc.)
Traveling Abroad to Volunteer

Would hurt many people if their postings were revealed to med schools 😀:
Posting on SDN

😱
Philanthropy


I would add speaking Spanish for some schools

Thank you for your reply. Just wondering, what did you mean by 😱 for philanthropy? lol

 

[Judson]

Right now, since I'm up to my eyeballs with secondaries, I'd also place a high value on certain topics to write about: community effort, what makes you unique, clinical experience, and one of the core-competencies. I've had lots of research in college, but haven't written about any of the projects.

Btw, if you think you should list these activities according to "most important", think again. It's relisted by AMCAS according to your dates and hours.

Does AMCAS list them by start date or number of hours?

 

[blackkrim]

Will make you stand out:
Publications

Necessary:
Volunteering
Research
Shadowing

Not necessary but good to have:
Teaching Assistant / Tutoring
Leadership Positions

Not necessary:
Honor Society Involvement
Athletics
Work Experience
Medical internship

Nobody cares:
Fraternity/Sorority Involvement
Certifications (EMT, CNA, etc.)
Traveling Abroad to Volunteer

Would hurt many people if their postings were revealed to med schools 😀:
Posting on SDN

😱
Philanthropy


I would add speaking Spanish for some schools

I'd put research into the "Not necessary but good to have" category, unless you're aiming for a major research school.

 

[Aerus]

Thank you for your reply. Just wondering, what did you mean by 😱 for philanthropy? lol

You wouldn't put "Donated 5 million dollars to blah blah blah" on your AMCAS.

 

[Judson]

You wouldn't put "Donated 5 million dollars to blah blah blah" on your AMCAS.

Ohhh!! I wrote philanthropy thinking about an organization at my university that raises money for pediatric cancer research and prevention. I was wondering if it would be worth it to include involvement in a philanthropic organization without donating money yourself?

 

[Aerus]

Ohhh!! I wrote philanthropy thinking about an organization at my university that raises money for pediatric cancer research and prevention. I was wondering if it would be worth it to include involvement in a philanthropic organization without donating money yourself?

You mean humanitarian organizations? Fundraising organizations? Those are fine and if you are involved in it extensively and long-term, could show a commitment to service. I still say that straight up putting in hours to volunteer rather than through an organization, is better unless you are aiming for a leadership position.

 

[Judson]

You mean humanitarian organizations? Fundraising organizations? Those are fine and if you are involved in it extensively and long-term, could show a commitment to service. I still say that straight up putting in hours to volunteer rather than through an organization, is better unless you are aiming for a leadership position.

Right on. I totally agree. How would you rank having a leadership position in a fundraising organization against hospital volunteering?

 

[allantois]

Right on. I totally agree. How would you rank having a leadership position in a fundraising organization against hospital volunteering?

You absolutely need to have extensive clinical experience, but it doesn't have to be hospital volunteering. Try to do both if you can.

A lot has been written about what an applicant is expected to have and it's basically: extensive clinical volunteering (necessary), community service (recommended), at least 50 hours shadowing (necessary), research (I would say necessary and you only need 1-2 semesters for most schools), leadership (recommended). In my opinion TAing is also good as doctors get to do a fair amount of teaching in their careers. Also, you can shoot two birds at once as in your example doing community service at an organization where you have a leadership role.

Other things that you mentioned (work, fraternity, certifications, etc) are likely to hurt your application by taking time from your studying for classes (GPA) or MCAT, which are the two most significant factors.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

You absolutely need to have extensive clinical experience, but it doesn't have to be hospital volunteering. Try to do both if you can.

A lot has been written about what an applicant is expected to have and it's basically: extensive clinical volunteering (necessary), community service (recommended), at least 50 hours shadowing (necessary), research (I would say necessary and you only need 1-2 semesters for most schools), leadership (recommended). In my opinion TAing is also good as doctors get to do a fair amount of teaching in their careers. Also, you can shoot two birds at once as in your example doing community service at an organization where you have a leadership role.

Other things that you mentioned (work, fraternity, certifications, etc) are likely to hurt your application by taking time from your studying for classes (GPA) or MCAT, which are the two most significant factors.

Research is not necessary for all medical schools. I graduated from WUSTL, and even they told us that "You don't need to do research to get into medical school." I applied to mostly schools that emphasize community service and devalue research; strategic application based on "fit" is key here.

What I believe is accurate:
Extensive clinical experience (can be volunteering or paid work like scribe, EMT, clinical research assistant, etc.) is absolutely necessary.
Community service that is nonmedical is basically necessary or at the very least highly recommended.
Leadership (doesn't have to be a position with a name, you can lead by example and be a good leader) is recommended.
Research (basic science or clinical) is a plus but not necessary (unless you apply to MSTP or top-ranked research-heavy schools).
Shadowing is necessary.
Teaching/Tutoring/TA'ing experience is a plus but not necessary (more useful for those who want to do academic medicine or naturally love/are good at teaching).
Other EC's can probably be categorized into one of the above but will be random in terms of how useful they'll be.

 

[allantois]

Research is not necessary for all medical schools. I graduated from WUSTL, and even they told us that "You don't need to do research to get into medical school." I applied to mostly schools that emphasize community service and devalue research; strategic application based on "fit" is key here.

.

If you look at MSAR, you will find that even schools that are most committed to primary care/rural medicine will report that over 70% of their matriculants have had research experience (which of course somebody with as little as 50 hours will still be put into that category).

 

[Ace Khalifa]

If you look at MSAR, you will find that even schools that are most committed to primary care/rural medicine will report that over 70% of their matriculants have had research experience (which of course somebody with as little as 50 hours will still be put into that category).



WUSTL is on the opposite end of the country from me, so it doesn't speak volumes to me 😛

WUSTL is in the middle of the country...how is it on "the opposite end?"

Also, per MSAR, every school will list over 70-80% for matriculants who had research, nonmedical volunteering, and clinical experience.

Just because a lot of people choose to do research as an EC doesn't make it required. By all means, do research if you love it or want to pursue academic medicine or want to bring about positive change thru useful, informative publications. As for me, community service (and leadership within my service fraternity) was my passion and the one activity that I loved doing. As long as candidates have that one EC that they love and are truly passionate for, then they'll be a strong candidate assuming they have all the "requirements."

I want to bring about positive change thru patient care. Research in med school would only be a means to an end for me (because competitive specialties basically "require" you to do research for that specialty). However, volunteering and community service in med school would be something I would do every week because I wanted to.

 

[allantois]

70-80% of students with research is enough for me to conclude that it has become an unwritten requirement just like clinical experience and community service. Medical schools do not officially require anything beyond prerequisite courses. How one wants to interpret 70-80% figures is up to them.

Btw, all this unwritten requirements are a direct result of premeds going above and beyond of official admission requirements.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

I don't agree with clinical experience being an "unwritten" requirement. I think it's an absolute. And again, it depends on the schools you apply to. The only top 20 U.S. News Rank 2015 research school I applied to was my alma mater WUSTL. Another 4 I applied to were ranked between 20-30 (including my awesome state school UNC), and the other 17 I applied to were all ranked below 40. Fit is most important, imo. I could care less about arbitrary rankings, and in the end, every U.S. medical school will adequately train you to become an excellent physician deserving of the M.D. across your chest lol.

My stats are cGPA/sGPA/MCAT of 3.73/3.78/36 coming from WUSTL and doing a science major.

 

[Judson]

Btw, all this unwritten requirements are a direct result of premeds going above and beyond of official admission requirements.

That's a good point. Do you think research will someday become a formal requirement? I don't think it's a bad thing for all med school applicants to have some research experience. Especially when importance is placed on a better understanding of the scientific method and the ability to read and critically review articles.

 

[Judson]

Fit is most important, imo. I could care less about arbitrary rankings, and in the end, every U.S. medical school will adequately train you to become an excellent physician deserving of the M.D. across your chest lol.

Agreed. I remember reading a med student's post that said something along the lines of, "nobody cares where you went to med school when you're working in the field. When you become a physician, your colleagues assess you by asking 'are you or are you not a good doctor?'" Perhaps being a good fit for your institution is among the greatest determining factors to your quality of work as a physician in the future.

Edited for spelling

 

[RWynd123]

I would say athletics number 1. Being an athlete shows a lot and takes a lot of dedication.

 

[karayaa]

I would say athletics number 1. Being an athlete shows a lot and takes a lot of dedication.

*D1 athletics maybe. Non-NCAA club sports maybe. The rest? meh

 

[karayaa]

To the "Will make you stand out", I'd add active duty military experience, especially leadership roles. And maybe Peace Corps/Fulbright.

 

[FindMeOnTheLinks]

*D1 athletics maybe. Non-NCAA club sports maybe. The rest? meh

Its funny how misinformed some people are about NCAA athletics. D2 and D3 athletes put in just as much time and effort as D1 athletes, and have just as much passion despite receiving smaller/no scholarships.

 

[karayaa]

Its funny how misinformed some people are about NCAA athletics. D2 and D3 athletes put in just as much time and effort as D1 athletes, and have just as much passion despite receiving smaller/no scholarships.

I agree. Dedication, time, effort, are all good, but part of the attraction of a D1 athlete is that they're at the top. They're achieving excellence.

 

[Leslie_Knope]

To be a D1 athlete your school just has to be classified that way. There are still sports you can walk on to a D1 schools.

That being said, athletics are a definite plus.

 

[bsmd14]

I thought the point is to rank your extracurriculars based on what was important to YOU. That's kind of what what makes each of us unique.

 

[allantois]

I thought the point is to rank your extracurriculars based on what was important to YOU. That's kind of what what makes each of us unique.

Then you are out of luck if shadowing or clinical volunteering doesn't happen to be something that's important to YOU 🙄

 

[bsmd14]

Then you are out of luck if shadowing or clinical volunteering doesn't happen to be something that's important to YOU 🙄

1) It is a relative ranking. Thus, shadowing and clinical volunteering can still be important, but some of us may have unique experiences they would rank above them.
2) Actually, many people I know don't like shadowing because they feel like they aren't getting the experiences they want clinically. Doesn't mean they're out of luck!
3) Shadowing and clinical volunteering are typical for most applicants. Thus, you ARE out of luck if you don't have something unique that is equal to or more important than these typical activities.

My two cents!

 

[allantois]

1) It is a relative ranking. Thus, shadowing and clinical volunteering can still be important, but some of us may have unique experiences they would rank above them.
2) Actually, many people I know don't like shadowing because they feel like they aren't getting the experiences they want clinically. Doesn't mean they're out of luck!
3) Shadowing and clinical volunteering are typical for most applicants. Thus, you ARE out of luck if you don't have something unique that is equal to or more important than these typical activities.

My two cents!

1)Unique experiences don't matter if you have no clinical experience. Just like clinical experience doesn't matter if your GPA is below 3.0
2) Many people I know are not shadowing at all; doesn't mean they are going to a med school either.
3) There are very few things that are truly unique in the world of pre-meds.

My three cents!

 

[bsmd14]

1)Unique experiences don't matter if you have no clinical experience. Just like clinical experience doesn't matter if your GPA is below 3.0
2) Many people I know are not shadowing at all; doesn't mean they are going to a med school either.
3) There are very few things that are truly unique in the world of pre-meds.

My three cents!

1) Which is why I said relative ranking, not the nonexistence of clinical experiences. Please read my post.
2) That's nice.
3) I'm sure you based that conclusion off of experience with thousands of applicants!

 

[Lambda Phage]

Its funny how misinformed some people are about NCAA athletics. D2 and D3 athletes put in just as much time and effort as D1 athletes, and have just as much passion despite receiving smaller/no scholarships.

I turned down an offer to play a D3 sport because of the financial burden it would have been to attend the school without a significant scholarship. :/

 

[Aerus]

1) Which is why I said relative ranking, not the nonexistence of clinical experiences. Please read my post.
2) That's nice.
3) I'm sure you based that conclusion off of experience with thousands of applicants!

No, number 3 is actually very true. Very very few things are unique in medical school applications. Admission Committees have basically seen it all: olympic medalists, war veterans, company CEOs, non-profit directors, professional athletes, etc.

Unique is something that's almost never true anymore. The phrase you meant was "stand out".

 

[bsmd14]

No, number 3 is actually very true. Very very few things are unique in medical school applications. Admission Committees have basically seen it all: olympic medalists, war veterans, company CEOs, non-profit directors, professional athletes, etc.

Unique is something that's almost never true anymore. The phrase you meant was "stand out".

A person can be a non-profit director of a unique organization with unique activities. Thus, the activity is unique (though the title is not)! And yes, I mean unique.

EDIT: Yes, I used unique about a hundred times for emphasis haha

 

[allantois]

A person can be a non-profit director of a unique organization with unique activities. Thus, the activity is unique (though the title is not)! And yes, I mean unique.

You have a very unique way of thinking

 

[Aerus]

A person can be a non-profit director of a unique organization with unique activities. Thus, the activity is unique (though the title is not)! And yes, I mean unique.

EDIT: Yes, I used unique about a hundred times for emphasis haha

All experiences are technically "unique" by that definition. What I (and everyone else) defines as unique in this process is an activity that has never been seen before.

 

[bsmd14]

^Yes, an activity can be doing X, which has not been done before. If I am the director of a nonprofit that does X, then I am doing a unique activity.

 

[Judson]

What about being on the chess team?

 

[FindMeOnTheLinks]

I agree. Dedication, time, effort, are all good, but part of the attraction of a D1 athlete is that they're at the top. They're achieving excellence.

Yes, this is true. As a D3 athlete I am just sensitive when people assume that we don't work as hard as D1...no hard feelings though