Ranking University vs. Community Programs

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Psyxh1

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Although I believe I have my top 5 on my ROL determined at this point, I'm really quite uncertain about how the rest of my list should look like. I'm also worried that I may very well match below my top 5. I'm in the northeast and would ideally prefer to live in or near(suburbs) a large city. My friend from another school who is also participating in the match this year advised me on my rankings and stated that it's a much better idea to go to a University program over community programs. My dilemma is that after my top 5, the rest of my University programs are not really in locations I have a strong desire to live in. My community programs, however, are located in or near large cities. My friend keeps telling me that it's only 4 years and that my diploma will be with me forever. 4 years to me seems like such a long time especially since I'm at an age in my life where it would be such a great opportunity to live in a happening city(27). I'm also gay so I'm really worried about dating prospects. Would it be a good decision to rank any of the community programs in the list below above the University ones?

University Programs:

UCONN: Loved the facilities. The new PD and the now associate PD seem to work well together and have many great plans in the works for the program. Biologically focused but seem to have solid therapy training as well. Not too sure about the work hours since some of the residents stated they work very hard and although they never reach 80 hours on Psychiatry, during intern year on medicine they are known to break the 80 hour limit.

SUNY Upstate: Have family in the area. Great Psychotherapy training which is a huge plus, seems like a very supportive program with individualized faculty mentors for each resident. Well-funded and many research opportunities available. Upstate medical students seem to prefer staying on to complete their Psychiatry residency here. Dislike the heavy snow, rain, and cloudy days that Upstate NY is known for though and dating prospects seem limited.

SUNY Buffalo: Got a great vibe from this program and really liked the program director. They seem to incorporate the arts, media, and film in educating residents psychologically which is a very positive aspect. Very busy CPEP services. Seems to be a very supportive program as well. Again, dislike the heavy snow, rain, and overcast weather.

Indiana University: Absolutely stupendous program. Would be very high on my ROL if it weren't for the fact that I don't know if I can fathom moving such a great distance. It seems like such a big transition on my part to move from the northeast to Indianapolis. I have no family in the area(closest would be Ohio) and I don't really want to feel isolated. Indianapolis, although doesn't compare to cities on the eastern seaboard, is the 14th largest city in the country. I think the LGBT population is rather low though.

Virginia Commonwealth University: Great facilities. Solid training and support but the list of fellowships that alumni have secured seem to all be in the South. Richmond is a small city and has nice weather(compared to what I'm used to) and is a day trip away from D.C. Dating prospects are probably limited here as well especially in regards to LGBT. This was the one program my friend advised ranking below some of my community ones just because it's too far south.

Community Programs:

Institute of Living: This is one of my community programs that is NOT in a good location. Not completely sure whether this is a community program but I had a very wonderful impression on my interview day. Apparently it is well-known in Psychiatric circles due to the institute's long history in treating the mentally ill. This is most definitely an education-focused program with strong didactics. Residency size is small. Excellent psychotherapy training and a plethora of options for elective rotations. UCONN residents also do some of their electives here. I loved how supportive the faculty and program director are. That being said, I did hear that perhaps residents might be lacking in autonomy by their 4th year compared to other programs. Can someone tell me how to compare this program to UCONN and how to rank them?

NYMC Westchester Medical Center: Is this technically a University program since it's NYMC's residency? Great location since only 20 minutes outside of Manhattan. I was very impressed by the PD and his philosophy. Liked the facilities and the faculty are supportive. Residents seemed happy and cohesive as a group. Have heard many negative things about this program on SDN but the last thread that mentioned it was back in 2012 and the PD has changed. Also, residents can get very cheap subsidized housing for the first two years if they choose to live in Westchester instead of Manhattan.

Einstein Medical Center in Philly: Residents seemed very happy, cohesive, and friendly. Dr. Best made a great impression on me and I loved how close-knit and supportive everyone was at this program. Heavy emphasis on Psychoanalysis which I consider a positive. Great camaraderie. It appears that the residents who graduate from here become solid clinicians.

Maimonides Medical Center: Great location in Brooklyn. Appears to be a decent program with great residents but who are mostly all IMG. Would love to live in Brooklyn but the program is probably not worth it considering the quality and the fact that I have loans.

Richmond University Medical Center: Solid impression during interview day but appears to be mostly IMG. Did not get the impression that this was a NYC sweatshop program. No one seems to have heard of this program though and I suppose I'll rank it low even though it's on Staten Island.

St. Elizabeth's Medical Center: Nice location outside Boston. PD seems very approachable, caring, and invested in the residency program. Apparently the program was on probation recently. All of the residents seem to be IMGs.

Baystate Health: Again, this is the other community program that's in an undesirable location(Springfield, MA). Faculty seem to have trained at top notch institutions in New England. Residents are mostly a mix of foreign and american IMGs. Everyone seemed friendly. I am making mention of this program here to see if there's any reason as to why I should rank it high.

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Of course there will be a lot of variability in patient population, diversity of pathology, amount of autonomy, and quality of education. This won't map to academics and city size directly, but there is a correlation. I'm at a university residency in a big city. I have noticed new attendings coming from community places being underprepared for what we get here, but the good ones catch up quickly. Can't say what it would be like going the other direction.
 
Look, there are good community programs and then there are university programs that barely deserve to have 'University' in their title. (On your list you can obviously see that Inst for Living is in the former category. The SUNYs might be in the latter.) If it's that much more important to you to be in a big city, then you might make that your determinant, rather than the Brand Name on your diploma (which really, no one outside of academia is going to give a murine sacrum about...but applicants still seem to have a lot of angst about it.) Look at the breadth and depth of the clinical exposure you'll get, look at the faculty that will be supervising you, and decide if they pass muster.

(And I still don't freaking get what the weather should have to do with your match preference. It obviously rains and snows in NYC and Boston, too. And summer does come to Buffalo and most other cities as well...)
 
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Look, there are good community programs and then there are university programs that barely deserve to have 'University' in their title. (On your list you can obviously see that Inst for Living is in the former category. The SUNYs might be in the latter.) If it's that much more important to you to be in a big city, then you might make that your determinant, rather than the Brand Name on your diploma (which really, no one outside of academia is going to give a murine sacrum about...but applicants still seem to have a lot of angst about it.) Look at the breadth and depth of the clinical exposure you'll get, look at the faculty that will be supervising you, and decide if they pass muster.

(And I still don't freaking get what the weather should have to do with your match preference. It obviously rains and snows in NYC and Boston, too. And summer does come to Buffalo and most other cities as well...)

You just don't have to deal with as much rain and certainly snow in NYC to the extent that you would in Buffalo. The number of cloudy days is much higher as well. Also, I gave my impressions of the programs in my initial post and I was hoping I could be advised on how to compare and rank these programs since I'm really unsure. Mainly, are there any programs that are solidly 'better' than the others on my list? Is NYMC Westchester still low tier/poor quality? I actually was under the impression that the SUNYs were great programs, especially Upstate. Is that not really the case?
 
Overall, it will not make much difference to your career prospects whether you go to a "community" or "academic" program if you are not a researcher - you are much better off choosing a place based on where you want to spend the next 4 years, think you will be happiest personally and professionally, and will provide you with the best training and most diverse experiences.

I agree. Seeing that these are the criteria, I'm wondering if any of you can tell me which programs on the list I made are 'better' than the others and whether the one philly community program or any of the NYC community programs should be ranked higher than the 'University' programs. I gave my impressions of the programs based on my interview day and my research but it's really hard to have a complete understanding of how these programs stand vis a vis each other based on just one interview day.. I understand that the Institute of Living should be ranked higher than some of the University programs on my list but which ones? Is NYMC Westchester still considered a poor quality program?
 
I agree. Seeing that these are the criteria, I'm wondering if any of you can tell me which programs on the list I made are 'better' than the others and whether the one philly community program or any of the NYC community programs should be ranked higher than the 'University' programs. I gave my impressions of the programs based on my interview day and my research but it's really hard to have a complete understanding of how these programs stand vis a vis each other based on just one interview day.. I understand that the Institute of Living should be ranked higher than some of the University programs on my list but which ones? Is NYMC Westchester still considered a poor quality program?

You seem to have this idea that there exists a Super Sikrit Objective List Of Residencies In Strict Order of Quality.

There is not.
 
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You seem to have this idea that there exists a Super Sikrit Objective List Of Residencies In Strict Order of Quality.

There is not.

I know there isn't but aren't some programs just generally considered better or regarded more highly than others?
 
I know there isn't but aren't some programs just generally considered better or regarded more highly than others?
Consider where you feel you fit best and rank accordingly. Keep it simple.
 
If I could ask a question related to this...what is the opinion on newer programs? (<3 years old) I inyerviewed at one of these new programs and was really thrown off by It.

I originally viewed it as a safety, but after my interview I am considering ranking it pretty high. It was the best "fit" overall, as far as getting along with the residents and the overall attitude and culture of the faculty. I have no doubts about whether they can get full accreditation... They had their act together and lots of support from the hospital. Still not a good idea?
 
Consider where you feel you fit best and rank accordingly. Keep it simple.

Thanks. I just wanted opinions from the general community on the programs I listed. Do any offer enough of a superior package( based on the criteria splik mentioned: diverse experiences and best training) so that it might be worth it to consider ranking them over the community programs in more desirable locations (Not that I necessarily will)? Also does anyone have an idea of how to compare and rank UCONN versus the Institute of Living?
 
Since you are looking for opinions, I'd argue that the Institute of Living is the strongest program you mentioned regardless of university/community.

I liked precious PD. Good research and nice main hospital. Not sure of new PD. I will rank low as didn't get along with residents they seemed little odd to me. Also u rotate through many many sites like prisons and all far away w driving. I hate driving So far in snow.
 
I liked precious PD. Good research and nice main hospital. Not sure of new PD. I will rank low as didn't get along with residents they seemed little odd to me. Also u rotate through many many sites like prisons and all far away w driving. I hate driving So far in snow.

This post kind of makes it sound like you already have strong intuitions about how to rank these programs. How do you intend to use the feedback you are requesting?
 
This post kind of makes it sound like you already have strong intuitions about how to rank these programs. How do you intend to use the feedback you are requesting?

The person who wrote that post complaining about the Institute of Living was not me(different username).

It doesn't <bleep>in' matter!

I apologize for making anyone angry. That wasn't my intention. It's just that what is the point of even creating threads comparing different programs if they're all really the same and it doesn't matter? The reason I made this thread was because I'm trying to find out whether any of the programs I listed offer a diversity of experiences and superior training enough to justify ranking them higher than other programs in more desirable locations. I know that everyone has different opinions but all I'm asking for is that people share their different opinions on these programs so that I can make my own more informed decisions. Thanks!
 
The person who wrote that post complaining about the Institute of Living was not me(different username).



I apologize for making anyone angry. That wasn't my intention. It's just that what is the point of even creating threads comparing different programs if they're all really the same and it doesn't matter? The reason I made this thread was because I'm trying to find out whether any of the programs I listed offer a diversity of experiences and superior training enough to justify ranking them higher than other programs in more desirable locations. I know that everyone has different opinions but all I'm asking for is that people share their different opinions on these programs so that I can make my own more informed decisions. Thanks!
I'm not angry. It's just that every year we go around and round again about this. There is simply NO objective evidence that one program is "better" another, and no consensus even for what "better" should be. What's best is what's best for YOU. Everything else is just rumor.
 
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The person who wrote that post complaining about the Institute of Living was not me(different username

...to justify ranking them higher...

When you're right, you're right. I apologize for the misidentification.

That said, the only person you need to justify your ROL to is your own self. Can't speak for anyone else, but I'm less angry than mildly exasperated by recognition of neurotic tendencies I partly share and that are totally unhelpful.
 
That wasn't my intention. It's just that what is the point of even creating threads comparing different programs if they're all really the same and it doesn't matter? The reason I made this thread was because I'm trying to find out whether any of the programs I listed offer a diversity of experiences and superior training enough to justify ranking them higher than other programs in more desirable locations. I know that everyone has different opinions but all I'm asking for is that people share their different opinions on these programs so that I can make my own more informed decisions. Thanks!
They're not all the same. I think the way you phrased it suggested some elitism which may have threw people off given these are almost all bottom of the barrel programs. The point (if any) of making these threads is if there are specific things people are thinking about - for example "I'm interested in x and wondering whether y or z would be better for that." Or "I'm most interested in going somewhere with flexibility for x" or "I really wanted this program but I got a bad vibe from the residents- was it just me?" etc

I will add - I don't think Maimonides is a bad program by any stretch it's just there are lots of programs in NYC and they tend to shine brighter. Since you seem keen on being in NYC I don't think it would hurt to rank this program highly if location is important to you. I don't know anything about the program but I've not heard anything bad, and the program director is pretty cool. He's also gay if you care about that sort of thing.

Einstein in Philly - this is also not a bad program it's just no one has heard of it and it gets confused with Einstein in NYC. There are several programs in Philly too and so this isn't on anyone's radar. But from what I can tell they do seem to let their senior residents have a lot of time off and they provide an impressive educational allowance for books/conference attendance etc with decent opportunities to get involved in things.

You mention being concerned about gay dating prospects. I think it is very reasonable to be concerned about these sorts of things and reasonable to rank based on location. Just be mindful that one's dating prospects in NYC or Philly are not necessarily better than in a smaller city. You will certainly have a larger pool for hook ups, but in bigger cities where people are spoiled for choice it can actually be harder to find a LTR (especially if you're gay) as everyone is always looking for something better. I obviously wouldn't recommend going to bumblef**k either but say a decent sized college town may actually be a better bet that a massive city if you are looking for a more serious relationship. You might also want to consider whether the location is otherwise LGBT friendly.
 
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They're not all the same. I think the way you phrased it suggested some elitism which may have threw people off given these are almost all bottom of the barrel programs. The point (if any) of making these threads is if there are specific things people are thinking about - for example "I'm interested in x and wondering whether y or z would be better for that." Or "I'm most interested in going somewhere with flexibility for x" or "I really wanted this program but I got a bad vibe from the residents- was it just me?" etc

I understand that these are mostly average/below average/mediocre programs but that's why they are not in my top 5. Thanks for your advice. That's exactly the sort of response I'm looking for. Any thoughts on NYMC Westchester, VCU? Is Institute of Living "better" than all of these? How does it compare to UCONN?
 
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I understand that these are mostly average/below average/mediocre programs but that's why they are not in my top 5. Thanks for your advice. That's exactly the sort of response I'm looking for. Any thoughts on NYMC Westchester, VCU? Is Institute of Living "better" than all of these? How does it compare to UCONN?
Based on what empirical evidence?
 
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