Re-applying and on 2 waitlists

[Scienceguy141]

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Hi everyone, I am looking for any suggestions as I begin re-applying. Suggested schools, should I wait an extra year before applying again, etc. Any help is greatly appreciated.

My stats:
cGPA: 4.00
MCAT: 520 (130/127/131/132) Does my 127 CARS hurt me because it makes my scores unbalanced?

EC's:

• 3 yr NCAA wrestler (was a team manager freshman year due to being out with fractured vertebrae)
  • Conference Runner-up, 2x conference honor roll
• 2.5 yrs (5 semesters) of undergraduate research, no pubs, but 2 posters and conference presentation
• 4-week Medical Fellowship in Estonia (80 shadowing hours in multiple disciplines)
• 45 hours clinical volunteering (I know some might say this is very low, but I was told my clinical exposure was decent, so it was more a matter of showing my commitment to service, which did not necessarily need to be clinical. Thoughts?)
• 220 hours of community service (volunteering at elementary school's, with special education students, domestic and sexual abuse shelter, etc)
• 60 hours of chemistry tutoring
• Elected to attend Leadership retreat by university department of undergrad research and creativity
• CADD Engineering assistant 575 hours (additional employment)
• Exterior House painting and Sales associate (relatively few hours; won't mention on my app)
• 50.5 hours shadowing Family Physicians
• 8 hours Trauma Level I Emergency Physician
• Member of Biology Club
• Member of Eta Phi Alpha Honor Society
• Member of Golden Key International Society
• Recipient of scholarship in Biology

New things that will be on this cycle's primary application if I am to re-apply this cycle:

• NWCA Scholar-All American, another Conference runner-up and now 3x conference honor roll
• 70 hours of chemistry tutoring in addition to above hours
• completed a new research project and presented poster (also authored abstract for conference application), lead role in putting poster together
• Student Athlete Advisory Committee - Wrestling Team Representative
• 50 hours of volunteering and counting at domestic and sexual abuse shelter
• Award for top graduating senior from college of science and health of my undergrad institution
• 175 hours of clinical research (unpaid intern)
• 100 hours of shadowing orthopedic surgeons (clinic and surgery)
• Medical Scribe position (today was my first training day)
• likely getting award for "In School" achievements at our athletics awards ceremony on May 1st

I will also be looking for an additional volunteer opportunity as I will be moving following graduation to be closer to my scribe job. As part of my scribe job I will have the opportunity to observe surgery as well, and I am also intending to get involved in research here.

School List from first time applying:
JHU - waitlisted here
Oregon Health and Science Univ
U of VT
U of Colorado
U of IA
UMASS
U Mich
U of MN
UNC-Chapel Hill
U of Wash
U of WI
U of WV - waitlisted here
Yale
Harvard
Stanford

I also received an interview from UMASS, but was rejected. Was not given interview at any other schools. I will likely not apply to Oregon or U of Wash again due to low oos acceptances.

Any suggestions on whether I should go ahead and apply again right away, or take a year-off, and an appropriate school list would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[Mr. Babe]

Seems like you have a lot of different things going for you. What is your state of residence?

 

[OneTwoThreeFour]

Hi everyone, I am looking for any suggestions as I begin re-applying. Suggested schools, should I wait an extra year before applying again, etc. Any help is greatly appreciated.

My stats:
cGPA: 4.00
MCAT: 520 (130/127/131/132) Does my 127 CARS hurt me because it makes my scores unbalanced?

EC's:

• 3 yr NCAA wrestler (was a team manager freshman year due to being out with fractured vertebrae)
  • Conference Runner-up, 2x conference honor roll
• 2.5 yrs (5 semesters) of undergraduate research, no pubs, but 2 posters and conference presentation
• 4-week Medical Fellowship in Estonia (80 shadowing hours in multiple disciplines)
• 45 hours clinical volunteering (I know some might say this is very low, but I was told my clinical exposure was decent, so it was more a matter of showing my commitment to service, which did not necessarily need to be clinical. Thoughts?)
• 220 hours of community service (volunteering at elementary school's, with special education students, domestic and sexual abuse shelter, etc)
• 60 hours of chemistry tutoring
• Elected to attend Leadership retreat by university department of undergrad research and creativity
• CADD Engineering assistant 575 hours (additional employment)
• Exterior House painting and Sales associate (relatively few hours; won't mention on my app)
• 50.5 hours shadowing Family Physicians
• 8 hours Trauma Level I Emergency Physician
• Member of Biology Club
• Member of Eta Phi Alpha Honor Society
• Member of Golden Key International Society
• Recipient of scholarship in Biology

New things that will be on this cycle's primary application if I am to re-apply this cycle:

• NWCA Scholar-All American, another Conference runner-up and now 3x conference honor roll
• 70 hours of chemistry tutoring in addition to above hours
• completed a new research project and presented poster (also authored abstract for conference application), lead role in putting poster together
• Student Athlete Advisory Committee - Wrestling Team Representative
• 50 hours of volunteering and counting at domestic and sexual abuse shelter
• Award for top graduating senior from college of science and health of my undergrad institution
• 175 hours of clinical research (unpaid intern)
• 100 hours of shadowing orthopedic surgeons (clinic and surgery)
• Medical Scribe position (today was my first training day)
• likely getting award for "In School" achievements at our athletics awards ceremony on May 1st

I will also be looking for an additional volunteer opportunity as I will be moving following graduation to be closer to my scribe job. As part of my scribe job I will have the opportunity to observe surgery as well, and I am also intending to get involved in research here.

School List from first time applying:
JHU - waitlisted here
Oregon Health and Science Univ
U of VT
U of Colorado
U of IA
UMASS
U Mich
U of MN
UNC-Chapel Hill
U of Wash
U of WI
U of WV - waitlisted here
Yale
Harvard
Stanford

I also received an interview from UMASS, but was rejected. Was not given interview at any other schools. I will likely not apply to Oregon or U of Wash again due to low oos acceptances.

Any suggestions on whether I should go ahead and apply again right away, or take a year-off, and an appropriate school list would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

I think you were hurt most by your school list. That's a lot of state schools with some that have low OOS numbers. Your school list makes it seem like you don't have too much restriction on where you end up so I'd just recommend broadening to a few other schools like BU, WashU, Pitt, NYU, Sinai. Top 20ish schools that aren't necessarily mission-driven to create local docs.

 

[DubbiDoctor]

First, your stats are great and your 127 - a solid score - is not a problem. It must be frustrating to be such a strong applicant and fail so far to be accepted. Two factors hurt you this cycle: not having enough clinical experience (40 hours won't impress any US medical school, let alone JHU, Stanford and Harvard) and having a frankly terrible school list. The scribing job will fix your lack of clinical experience, but try to get some more clinical volunteering as well. Focusing on out of state public schools was a mistake, as they favor their own to a significant extent. For Oregon, only 32/160 students were OOS. For Minnesota, 37/238. You need to apply to a lot more private schools, including mid-tiers.

I recommend: Einstein, BU, Case Western, Columbia, Hofstra, Duke, Emory, Dartmouth, Sinai, USC, Mayo, NYU, Northwestern, UPenn, Temple, Jefferson, Brown, Western Michigan, Tufts, UPitt, UChicago, Rochester, USF, Cornell and all State schools.

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

Two problems that I see:

1) School list is very unfitting. Half the schools are top 10's and the other half don't accept very many OOS students. Your sweet target should be mid-tier schools that realistically accept OOS students (BostonU, OhioState, UMiami, URochester, etc) and top schools that aren't ultra top (UPitt, Mayo, Emory, etc) and you missed both categories completely.

2) Clinical experience is very low. Being a physician requires having a desire to work with patients AND having a desire to handle the work-style of a physician and shadowing really only fulfills the latter requirement. You can argue all day by trying to justify that a physician's work-style is inclusive of dealing with patients and therefore shadowing should fulfill both requirements, but that argument won't hold up against ADCOMS.

 

[BombsAway]

1) School list is very unfitting. Half the schools are top 10's and the other half don't accept very many OOS students. Your sweet target should be mid-tier schools that realistically accept OOS students (BostonU, OhioState, UMiami, URochester, etc) and top schools that aren't ultra top (UPitt, Mayo, Emory, etc) and you missed both categories completely.

^ Disregard this terrible advice. ^

Apply again with increased clinical exp and essays that reflect the stuff you learned and were exposed to.

School list:
1) Any schools you are particularly stoked about. You are competitive at every school in the country.
2) Your state school(s), non-negotiable.
3) All stat-***** schools who salivate over 520's. Start with LizzyM's school, lol. (WashU, northwestern, NYU, Vandy, Yale, Pritzker, Cornell... you get the idea). But apply to all of them. It's a numbers game up at the top. Maybe you get 1 interview for every 3 places you're competitive for, and 1 acceptance for every 3 interviews.
4) Mid tier privates in locations you'd be down for.
5) LASTLY out-of-state schools who don't have large supply of their own high-stat applicants. You will be a target for them. This is not true at heavily mission influenced schools like UW (as you found out). The new MSAR should be very helpful with it's by-residency mcat filter.

Good luck. I miss wrestling.

 

[LavarBall]

^ Disregard this terrible advice.

That person did not give terrible advice what are you talking about.. The top 20s are a crapshoot even with the necessary stats and excellent ECs.

Also you didn’t really give any advice.. you basically just said apply everywhere. Yea that would work but not everyone has $6k to drop on applications, especially as a reapplicant.

The previous poster wasn’t saying to omit top schools. He’s just saying the upper mid tiers are his target which is true, especially with weak clinical experience.

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

1) Any schools you are particularly stoked about. You are competitive at every school in the country.

There's a reason OP is having to apply twice.

2) Your state school(s), non-negotiable.

Kind of already said that.

3) All stat-***** schools who salivate over 520's. Start with LizzyM's school, lol. (WashU, northwestern, NYU, Vandy, Yale, Pritzker, Cornell... you get the idea). But apply to all of them. It's a numbers game up at the top. Maybe you get 1 interview for every 3 places you're competitive for, and 1 acceptance for every 3 interviews.

I never said he shouldn't apply to top 10's, just that he should apply beyond top 10.

4) Mid tier privates in locations you'd be down for.

Kind of already said that.

5) LASTLY out-of-state schools who don't have large supply of their own high-stat applicants. You will be a target for them. This is not true at heavily mission influenced schools like UW (as you found out). The new MSAR should be very helpful with it's by-residency mcat filter.

Too obvious to explain why this is terrible advice.

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

That person did not give terrible advice what are you talking about.. The top 20s are a crapshoot even with the necessary stats and excellent ECs.

Also you didn’t really give any advice.. you basically just said apply everywhere. Yea that would work but not everyone has $6k to drop on applications, especially as a reapplicant.

The previous poster wasn’t saying to omit top schools. He’s just saying the upper mid tiers are his target which is true, especially with weak clinical experience.

Love you! 😍

 

[BombsAway]

That person did not give terrible advice what are you talking about.. The top 20s are a crapshoot even with the necessary stats and excellent ECs.

Also you didn’t really give any advice.. you basically just said apply everywhere. Yea that would work but not everyone has $6k to drop on applications, especially as a reapplicant.

The previous poster wasn’t saying to omit top schools. He’s just saying the upper mid tiers are his target which is true, especially with weak clinical experience.

We are in agreement that the top ranked schools are a crapshoot, that's what I endorsed applying to all the high median mcat schools based on the 9:3:1 ratio. If OP applied to more of them, this thread probably wouldn't exist. My list is all the private T20, plus state, plus whatever rando's appeal to them within reasonable limits. Pretty standard.

The other human advised against applying "ultra top", which is terrible advice considering OP previously netted a hopkins invite. OP needed more completed apps at top schools, not less.

 

[LavarBall]

Sure but a glaring hole in their school list is 0 upper mid tier schools which will be his target. Him being waitlisted at one top tier school does not mean other top 20s or 10s will also give him a shot given how much of a crapshoot it is. I had nearly indentical stats as OP and received 8 upper mid tier interviews and only 1 top 20. Had OP applied with a list similar to mine, this thread would most likely not exist.

 

[LavarBall]

I would ask @Goro or @Faha for their opinions on a school list

 

[BombsAway]

Sure but a glaring hole in their school list is 0 upper mid tier schools which will be his target. Him being waitlisted at one top tier school does not mean other top 20s or 10s will also give him a shot given how much of a crapshoot it is. I had nearly indentical stats as OP and received 8 upper mid tier interviews and only 1 top 20. Had OP applied with a list similar to mine, this thread would most likely not exist.

I dunno what upper-mid-tier means to you, but if you're talking CWRU/BU/USC I actually think those would be lower yield for OP. Simply because the WashU/NYU types seem to crave 520 above all else. The # of applicants actually being considered at those schools is limited to a relative few.

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

I dunno what upper-mid-tier means to you, but if you're talking CWRU/BU/USC I actually think those would be lower yield for OP. Simply because the WashU/NYU types seem to crave 520 above all else. The # of applicants actually being considered at those schools is limited to a relative few.

USC, BU, and CWRU have median MCAT's of 517, 518, and 518 respectively. If you think these three schools are turning down applicants because their MCAT scores are too high, or if you think that schools like NYU are only dealing with "relatively few applicants", then you REALLY need to stop giving advice on this site before you potentially wreck someone's medical career before it even starts.

 

[BombsAway]

USC, BU, and CWRU have median MCAT's of 517, 518, and 518 respectively. If you think these three schools are turning down applicants because their MCAT scores are too high, or if you think that schools like NYU are only dealing with "relatively few applicants", then you REALLY need to stop giving advice on this site before you potentially wreck someone's medical career before it even starts.

If we were sitting at a table discussing this, I would speak slower. However, given this written means of communication, I don't know how to help you. Maybe go back and try those three sentences at a slower pace?

 

[LavarBall]

Bombaway I think you’re a little too hung up on the 520. As someone with an MCAT above 520 who applied to all of those schools you’re talking about and was rejected by almost all of them pre-interview(all including post-II) I can confirm that they are doing more than just interviewing anyone who can score in the 99th percentile and check all the necessary boxes.

EDIT: While I completely agree they should apply to as many top 20s as their wallet will allow, I don’t think you should exclude schools in the Einstein up to Case range. I doubt there is much yield protection at these schools if any as you claim. They’re all excellent schools that many would only dream of attending

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

If we were sitting at a table discussing this, I would speak slower. However, given this written means of communication, I don't know how to help you. Maybe go back and try those three sentences at a slower pace?

A weak man uses insults as his argument when he cannot use the power of his brain.

Now here's a sad violin:

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

Bombaway I think you’re a little too hung up on the 520. As someone with an MCAT above 520 who applied to all of those schools you’re talking about and was rejected by almost all of them pre-interview(all including post-II) I can confirm that they are doing more than just interviewing anyone who can score in the 99th percentile and check all the necessary boxes.

But your status says that you are an accepted med student

 

[BombsAway]

Bombaway I think you’re a little too hung up on the 520. As someone with an MCAT above 520 who applied to all of those schools you’re talking about and was rejected by almost all of them pre-interview(all including post-II) I can confirm that they are doing more than just interviewing anyone who can score in the 99th percentile and check all the necessary boxes.

I agree with you. I'm simply saying those schools will be the highest yield given their admission preferences. There are (obviously) still more 520 applicants than seats. However, the weighted leverage of the 520+ mcat is greater at these schools, with 25%iles of 519. Even if they get 10k apps, the pool he's competing with is limited to the fellow high scorers.

Edit-to-edit: I don't think those schools do much yield protection either, im saying the leverage of the 520 isn't as strong there, since they aren't so hyper focused on that single metric.

 

[LavarBall]

But your status says that you are an accepted med student

Yes I was accepted at a mid tier school and my state school. I meant I was rejected by all the top 20s I applied to

EDIT: When I said “all those schools you’re talking about” I was not referring to his initial list but to the top 20s we’ve been talking about in the last few comments

 

[BombsAway]

A weak man uses insults as his argument when he cannot use the power of his brain.

Now here's a sad violin:

View attachment 232430

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

That's why I said WHEN he can't use the power of his brain. An insult in addition to a legitamet argument is just.... true.

Looks like you're the one who needs to work on his reading skills.

 

[BombsAway]

That's why I said WHEN he can't use the power of his brain. An insult in addition to a legitamet argument is just.... true.

Looks like you're the one who needs to work on his reading skills.

A few years from now you may amend your statement from "just... true" to "just... immature". Time usually has that effect.

But yeah, i'll try to dial in those reading skills when I start at my T10 school this fall. Good luck in your endeavors.

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

A few years from now you may amend your statement from "just... true" to "just... immature". Time usually has that effect.

But yeah, i'll try to dial in those reading skills when I start at my T10 school this fall. Good luck in your endeavors.

Good luck to you as well. Hopefully one day a few years from now you'll realize that bragging about being at a top 10 school over the internet isn't any less immature.

 

[BombsAway]

Good luck to you as well. Hopefully one day a few years from now you'll realize that bragging about being at a top 10 school over the internet isn't any less immature.

haha! but in your own wise words, it's not bragging "it's just... true".

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

haha! but in your own wise words, it's not bragging "it's just... true".

It's not about the truth of reality.

It's about the truth of you thinking that you needed to mention it in that way.

 

[Faha]

Where is your state of residence? I suggest including all these schools when you reapply:
Boston University
Tufts
Dartmouth
Brown
Rochester
Hofstra
NYU
Einstein
Mount Sinai
Duke
Virginia Commonwealth
Miami
Pitt
Case Western
Cincinnati
Washington University
St. Louis
Tulane
Ohio State
Indiana
Illinois

 

[Scienceguy141]

Seems like you have a lot of different things going for you. What is your state of residence?

I am a MN resident

 

[Scienceguy141]

Thank you everyone for the advice. I would however appreciate it if the stupid arguing could be placed on a different post so I don't have to scroll through so many posts to find the ones with relevant information.

I should be approaching 100 hours of scribing by the June 1st submission date. Would you recommend I estimate my hours of scribing that I will have completed for the entire year (April 2018 -summer 2019) when I am filling out my experiences list? If I were to do that I will have a little of 1,750 clinical scribing hours.

 

[LavarBall]

Thank you everyone for the advice. I would however appreciate it if the stupid arguing could be placed on a different post so I don't have to scroll through so many posts to find the ones with relevant information.

I should be approaching 100 hours of scribing by the June 1st submission date. Would you recommend I estimate my hours of scribing that I will have completed for the entire year (April 2018 -summer 2019) when I am filling out my experiences list? If I were to do that I will have a little of 1,750 clinical scribing hours.

List them as separate timelines(I think it gives you like 3 or so different time periods to enter) under the same activity so adcoms know which are future projected hours. Then I would send in an update at some point to show that you are indeed on track to complete those hours. You can also talk about what you’ve learned from the job at interviews and on secondaries. Being able to talk extensively about an EC will probably make your projected hours look better than if you couldn’t really talk much about what you’ve learned.

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

I would however appreciate it if the stupid arguing could be placed on a different post so I don't have to scroll through so many posts to find the ones with relevant information.

1) I retract my previous statements.

2) If scrolling through a thread is too hard for you, then you shouldn't go to med school.

3) You're a MN resident and didn't apply to Mayo?

 

[DubbiDoctor]

I retract my previous statements because you probably got rejected everywhere cause of being a butthole.

You inferred that because he didn't want to read your stupid internet argument derailing his thread, and politely asked you to take it elsewhere?

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

You inferred that because he didn't want to read your stupid internet argument derailing his thread, and politely asked you to take it elsewhere?

Humor me. How was it stupid?

 

[LavarBall]

1) I retract my previous statements because you probably got rejected everywhere cause of being a butthole.

2) If scrolling through a thread is too hard for you, then you shouldn't go to med school.

3) You're a MN resident and didn't apply to Mayo? Get your life together.

What is wrong with you? How did you get that triggered by him saying your arguing is stupid..

 

[LoveBeingHuman:)]

What is wrong with you? How did you get that triggered by him saying your arguing is stupid..

My whole childhood I was obese and the only thing my dad was ever proud of me for was the fact that I was good at math. So when anyone calls me stupid I get very emotional because it attacks the only thing I have going for me. 🙁

 

[Scienceguy141]

1) I retract my previous statements because you probably got rejected everywhere cause of being a butthole.

2) If scrolling through a thread is too hard for you, then you shouldn't go to med school.

3) You're a MN resident and didn't apply to Mayo? Get your life together.

Mayo doesnt give any preference to in state applicants over oos, so I don't think my residence makes any difference in my decision to or not to apply to Mayo.

 

[BombsAway]

Mayo doesnt give any preference to in state applicants over oos, so I don't think my residence makes any difference in my decision to or not to apply to Mayo.

Correct, but they made a concerted rankings push last year and focused on higher MCATs. They're competing for students with schools in much better climates/cities, so you MN status might have given you a credibility bump. It's a great school and there's no wasted effort on the secondary to apply, as they screen for it, so may as well add it to the list.

 

[Scienceguy141]

Correct, but they made a concerted rankings push last year and focused on higher MCATs. They're competing for students with schools in much better climates/cities, so you MN status might have given you a credibility bump. It's a great school and there's no wasted effort on the secondary to apply, as they screen for it, so may as well add it to the list.

Ok, I will likely add it to the list. I had been turned off by its location and felt it would be low yield as they have such a low acceptance rate. Thank you for the info.

Could you elaborate on what a "mid-tier" school might look likes in terms of median gpa and mcat, or what would be considered "high-risk, but ultra top"?

 

[BombsAway]

"Mid tier" is the dumbest term. There are too many rock solid schools that also demand high stats to fit in the top 20. I think people probably mean like rank 20-50, but who knows. You shouldn't worry about it, you're competitive everywhere. You fixed your clinical shortage, now make sure your essays reflect accordingly.