RE: crickets

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Are you seeing any consistent pricing yet? Apotex reports to us $4.73 for 3.375 and $5.98 for 4.5 yet the Hospira rep was in here telling us their generic would be out soon in Add-Vantage vials at $10.20 for the 3.375.
 
More abuse of the legal system by drug companies. They know they'll get a preliminary injunction from the judge, they know within certain limits how much it'll cost them to pay their attorneys to delay the availability, and they know that if they get X amount of days more of exclusivity they'll make more money than it'll cost them.

There should be heavy monetary penalties for corporations to file claims that clearly have no merit, or there should be heavy penalties for the request of an injunction when there is no substantive complaint.

Zosyn has been on the U.S. market since 1993 and had 2008 sales totaling $1.3 billion, making it the company's fifth-biggest product line.

Camardo said that Wyeth several years ago filed a "citizen's petition" asking the FDA not to allow generic Zosyn because of the potential for problems. The petition laid out Wyeth's scientific arguments and contained similar statements of support from outside experts on medication errors and drug interactions and effects, he said.

The FDA denied the citizen's petition last Tuesday and then approved Orchid's drug last Wednesday.
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Lol, f*cking capitalists. $1.3b/year means around $100m/month, so if they get an extra couple weeks of exclusivity they get tens of millions! I'm sure they're just looking out for patients, though.
 
who are we looking out for when we substitute 3 generics for 1 monotherapy brand antibiotic to save 3 cents per dose? Are we looking out for the patient? Or the hospital? Our University System is cracking down like crazy on all pharmacy costs and looking for short term gains to get us through these times. For who? We are subjecting patients to 3 or 4 adverse events profiles from multiple generics to save 2 or 3 cents? What is the long term cost to our society?

I hear you, but I am concerned with the short term nature of our cost cutting when I see that the football coach gave all his assitants a raise and we cut 412 other people across the hospital. Pharma might be interested in money, but the people who ultimately control us, what are they interested in?
 
Do you really think switching out generics a couple times will matter for 99.99% of patients? With few exceptions, it doesn't matter at all what the sticker on the bottle says.
 
Not for any individual patient, no. The data are clear about what it means for the community at large over time. We have a say in our future MRSA, c.Diff, VRE, eSBL and PsA rates despite the poor behavior by our MDs.
 
StewardshipDude said:
who are we looking out for when we substitute 3 generics for 1 monotherapy brand antibiotic to save 3 cents per dose? Are we looking out for the patient? Or the hospital? Our University System is cracking down like crazy on all pharmacy costs and looking for short term gains to get us through these times. For who? We are subjecting patients to 3 or 4 adverse events profiles from multiple generics to save 2 or 3 cents? What is the long term cost to our society?
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Please give us the names of the drugs involved in your above example.
 
StewardshipDude said:
The data are clear about what it means for the community at large over time.
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Does this data confuse correlation with causation or some ****? I am just a small-time country druggist, and I'm sure you're a big-time city pharmacist...but it makes zero sense how an instant release molecule can magically be less effective if its made in factory A vs factory B. Granted, they have all of that "formulation" bull****, but I really don't buy that, either...
 
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congrats on being small town. I am originally from Prestonsburg although I now live in SC.

Anyway, I am all for generics. 100%.

I'm talking about bolting together 3 medicines(simply because they are available generically) and exposing the patient to potentially 3 different side effect profiles to create a spectrum that equals 1 drug that happens to be branded and costs pennies more than the generic cocktail.

I was taught by Bob Rapp and it was ingrained that monotherapy is almost always preferred to combination therapy. Less chance of medication error, fewer potential missed doses, fewer drug interactions. I am unaware of any combo therapy that prevents resistance with the exception of 5-flucytosine+amphotericin B, rifampin + pyrazinamide or ethambutol maybe, and amino+anti-ps penicillins.

The data are clear that imipenem+ amino, cefepime+cipro, aztreonam+ceftaz or most other combo DO NOT prevent resistance and most likely increase it.

Again, for the simple minded, I am 100% for generics. I like em. I'm just not gonna let the financial dudes fool me. The cost over the long term is what's important.
 
Bob Rapp is one of the biggest industry ***** scumbag.

Thanks,


StewardshipDude said:
congrats on being small town. I am originally from Prestonsburg although I now live in SC.

Anyway, I am all for generics. 100%.

I'm talking about bolting together 3 medicines(simply because they are available generically) and exposing the patient to potentially 3 different side effect profiles to create a spectrum that equals 1 drug that happens to be branded and costs pennies more than the generic cocktail.

I was taught by Bob Rapp and it was ingrained that monotherapy is almost always preferred to combination therapy. Less chance of medication error, fewer potential missed doses, fewer drug interactions. I am unaware of any combo therapy that prevents resistance with the exception of 5-flucytosine+amphotericin B, rifampin + pyrazinamide or ethambutol maybe, and amino+anti-ps penicillins.

The data are clear that imipenem+ amino, cefepime+cipro, aztreonam+ceftaz or most other combo DO NOT prevent resistance and most likely increase it.

Again, for the simple minded, I am 100% for generics. I like em. I'm just not gonna let the financial dudes fool me. The cost over the long term is what's important.
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StewardshipDude said:
congrats on being small town. I am originally from Prestonsburg although I now live in SC.

Anyway, I am all for generics. 100%.

I'm talking about bolting together 3 medicines(simply because they are available generically) and exposing the patient to potentially 3 different side effect profiles to create a spectrum that equals 1 drug that happens to be branded and costs pennies more than the generic cocktail.

I was taught by Bob Rapp and it was ingrained that monotherapy is almost always preferred to combination therapy. Less chance of medication error, fewer potential missed doses, fewer drug interactions. I am unaware of any combo therapy that prevents resistance with the exception of 5-flucytosine+amphotericin B, rifampin + pyrazinamide or ethambutol maybe, and amino+anti-ps penicillins.

The data are clear that imipenem+ amino, cefepime+cipro, aztreonam+ceftaz or most other combo DO NOT prevent resistance and most likely increase it.

Again, for the simple minded, I am 100% for generics. I like em. I'm just not gonna let the financial dudes fool me. The cost over the long term is what's important.
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Clearly, we're not talking about the same thing at all...I thought we were talking about generic vs brand zosyn...being as thoug we were talking about stickers on bottles and such...which would be the logical flow of discussion...nevermind...
 
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StewardshipDude said:
congrats on being small town. I am originally from Prestonsburg although I now live in SC.

Anyway, I am all for generics. 100%.

I'm talking about bolting together 3 medicines(simply because they are available generically) and exposing the patient to potentially 3 different side effect profiles to create a spectrum that equals 1 drug that happens to be branded and costs pennies more than the generic cocktail.

I was taught by Bob Rapp and it was ingrained that monotherapy is almost always preferred to combination therapy. Less chance of medication error, fewer potential missed doses, fewer drug interactions. I am unaware of any combo therapy that prevents resistance with the exception of 5-flucytosine+amphotericin B, rifampin + pyrazinamide or ethambutol maybe, and amino+anti-ps penicillins.

The data are clear that imipenem+ amino, cefepime+cipro, aztreonam+ceftaz or most other combo DO NOT prevent resistance and most likely increase it.

Again, for the simple minded, I am 100% for generics. I like em. I'm just not gonna let the financial dudes fool me. The cost over the long term is what's important.
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Again, please give us a real example of using 3 drugs in place of one to save pennies per dose...I am not saying you won't come up with one; you must have something on your mind because you keep repeating it.
 
StewardshipDude said:
shoot the messenger ok, but discuss the content..
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I don't see how your 3 generic has anything to do with generic zosyn and 3 cent cheaper stuff... sounds like you're just whining about your admin wanting to cut cost.

Tell me what 1 brand that will help cut cost in the long run?
 
as I thought, nothing constructive, just attacks
go back to your popcorn
 
StewardshipDude said:
For who? We are subjecting patients to 3 or 4 adverse events profiles from multiple generics to save 2 or 3 cents? What is the long term cost to our society?
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Adverse event profiles? Like what? What are they more prone to by switching to generic?
 
StewardshipDude said:
as I thought, nothing constructive, just attacks
go back to your popcorn
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I have yet begun my attack thin skinned green stewardship student...

who are we looking out for when we substitute 3 generics for 1 monotherapy brand antibiotic to save 3 cents per dose
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You have yet to elaborate.

I'll keep eating my popcorn until you back up your statement.
 
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cricket chirping...

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQFEY9RIRJA[/YOUTUBE]
 
F*ck you Wyeth, instead of tying this crap up in court why not spend a small portion of your advertizing budget on developing new antibiotics.

Oh, that's right, you like chronic conditions. Can we have another statin please? Or maybe a combo statin with ezetimibe? Thanks.
 
meister said:
F*ck you Wyeth, instead of tying this crap up in court why not spend a small portion of your advertizing budget on developing new antibiotics.

Oh, that's right, you like chronic conditions. Can we have another statin please? Or maybe a combo statin with ezetimibe? Thanks.
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I mean, honestly, what would the world be like without desvenlafaxine???
 
Priapism321 said:
I mean, honestly, what would the world be like without desvenlafaxine???
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1. It’s a blatant patent extender. Effexor XR, which brought in $3.8 billion for Wyeth in 2007, is losing patent protection this year, and Wyeth is introducing desvenlafaxine, which is simply Effexor’s main metabolite, as a “novel antidepressant.” There’s nothing novel about it. Every patient who takes Effexor produces Pristiq in their own body, at no additional charge.

2. It’s not very effective. In the studies released so far, Pristiq just barely squeaks by placebo on the Hamilton Depression scale. In the U.S. study, Pristiq decreased the HamD by only 2 points (-11.5 vs. -9.5 for placebo), and in the European study, the differences was 2.5 points. And for the higher 100 mg dose, there was no difference between drug and placebo for U.S. patients.

3. It’s not very effective. In the studies released so far, Pristiq just barely squeaks by placebo on the Hamilton Depression scale. In the U.S. study, Pristiq decreased the HamD by only 2 points (-11.5 vs. -9.5 for placebo), and in the European study, the differences was 2.5 points. And for the higher 100 mg dose, there was no difference between drug and placebo for U.S. patients.
3. It is not more easily dosed than Effexor XR. The main Wyeth marketing point for Pristiq is that patients can get better by taking the beginning dose of 50 mg, eliminating the need for a complicated upward dose titration process. Sorry, but this is not different from Effexor. If you look at one of the original fixed-dose studies of Effexor, comparing patients taking 75 mg, 225 mg, or 375 mg, you’ll find that the 75 mg dose separated from placebo as well as Pristiq’s 50 mg. Psychiatrists typically begin Effexor at either 37.5 or 75 mg/day. At least with Effexor XR, when you keep increasing the dose, efficacy improves, meaning it actually has an efficacy advantage over Pristiq, because when you increase the dose of Pristiq, you lose efficacy, according to the U.S. study data.

4. It has no meaningful metabolic advantages. Wyeth will highlight the fact that Pristiq is not metabolized by the P-450 system and therefore does not have any drug-drug interactions. Well, guess what, Effexor has no clinically meaningful drug-drug interactions either.

5. Wyeth’s own lead investigator is unimpressed. I spoke briefly with Dr. Michael Liebowitz, the Columbia University psychiatrist who led the major Pristiq trials. Pristiq, he said, “is another SNRI--it is not a revolutionary drug.” It may be more tolerable at the starting 50 mg dose, he said, but only time will tell if it truly is clinically useful. “If it is useful, then it will make money for the company, and if it is not, it won’t.”
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Haha I had no idea Pristiq was so worthless. They're not even trying anymore.

Sigh.
 
StaviZFingerZ said:
Wyeth denied order to block rival's generic drug...Booyah!

http://blog.taragana.com/n/judge-de...ht-to-block-rivals-generic-antibiotic-177838/
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Right...so a few weeks ago, I told my director that generic Zosyn was coming out the last week of September. He told me it didn't matter because he got a deal from Wyeth that allows him to buy frozen Zosyn from Baxter at the same price as the Apo generic. WTF is that all about? I wonder if he legitimately got that deal or was just making it up to save face because he signed a contract. You heard of Wyeth pushing anything like that?
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
Right...so a few weeks ago, I told my director that generic Zosyn was coming out the last week of September. He told me it didn't matter because he got a deal from Wyeth that allows him to buy frozen Zosyn from Baxter at the same price as the Apo generic. WTF is that all about? I wonder if he legitimately got that deal or was just making it up to save face because he signed a contract. You heard of Wyeth pushing anything like that?
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No
 
How can Baxter/Wyeth promise pricing that's not established? Some of the GPO pricing has been published already. If I were you, I'd make sure to demand the price "match" that's been promised..
 
StaviZFingerZ said:
How can Baxter/Wyeth promise pricing that's not established? Some of the GPO pricing has been published already. If I were you, I'd make sure to demand the price "match" that's been promised..
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But, really, should I spend that much time helping someone else's career?
 
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