Re-framing application for top 10 school

[SirMonkey]

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Hi there,

I'm very curious to get input on how to re-frame a medical school application for 2-3 years out.

Quick background: I went to a top 20 undergrad school, 3.6+ gpa, mid 30's mcat and got into a top 20 medical school out of undergrad. I then deferred med school for 2 years to work on Wall Street. I've decided to continue my wall street career for 2-3 additional years in a different line of business, but anticipate re-applying to med school in 2-3 years.

I'll have to re-take the MCAT, as the original scores have expired. Additionally, given my work experience, my chances for getting into a top b-school (M7) are pretty good - I'd like to complement that with a top 10 med school (anticipate doing an MD/MBA at the same institution).

Curious to what you guys think would be the best way to re-frame my application? (Other than killing the MCAT on re-take, which is an obvious). I didn't have a terrible amount of clinical experience and research experience out of undergrad - only the absolute bare minimum.

Having the time to do extensive clinical volunteering while working in finance is unlikely over the next 2-3 years. I do engage in other forms of volunteering around the city (along the likes of big brothers big sisters). I'll likely not have a large amount of time to devote on the research front either.

So, how would you go about re-framing the app, both in terms of the story I present and the content I bring to the table in terms of life experiences, outside of finance? I realize I need a convincing story given I'm giving up a deferral - not sure how much visibility med schools will have into that fact when I re-apply, though.

Thanks in advance.

 

[TupacalipseT96]

Are you working all day 7 days a week? Honestly clinical experience is important even if you are clearly busy in finance. If you could just get to the hospital as a low-profile volunteer a couple hours on Sundays or something over the next couple years while you work, then you would be golden. Honestly adding +2 hrs somewhere in your work week schedule would make a world of a difference in your application if it is over the span of 2-3 years, even though it might be very inconvenient.

 

[p30doc]

My guess is you are going to have a tough time convincing schools that you seriously want to do medicine. Why are they going to give you a seat when you were already given a seat and gave up that opportunity, while they have plenty of other qualified folks who are dying for a seat. My guess is that you will need to get in some serious clinical work and come up with a convincing/compelling story on what your deal is. I doubt you'll crack the top 20 again.

 

[SirMonkey]

Great response - let me clarify. Assume I have the weekends (1-2 days a week) to do something outside of work. What are the ideal clinical / volunteer / research experiences that I could engage in to really solidify my application? (these are the areas I was weakest in out of undergrad)

Basically, time is on my side in terms of years - I'd like to build a more solid, well rounded application this time.

 

[qtrlifecrisis]

Do what you find interesting. Doing what people tell you to do here is going to turn you into just another cookie cutter premed.

Seriously, if you're looking to distinguish yourself, do you really want to ask a ton of us for our advice?

Why do you want to go into medicine?

Take your answer, and figure out how you can learn more about it in a healthcare setting.

You need to figure this one out for yourself.

 

[Bacchus]

I think you're being stubborn. If you can still capitalize on the seat that you deferred take it and don't look back. Reapplying would be foolish.

 

[Dulcina]

I think you're being stubborn. If you can still capitalize on the seat that you deferred take it and don't look back. Reapplying would be foolish.

its not foolish at all. look:

"I recently received a private equity offer for the year I am supposed to matriculate for medical school. Private equity is the kind of business that is extremely hard to break into and recruits very early. In terms of skill-sets developed, it is a combination of almost every facet of business - the dealmaking side of banking, investment acumen side of asset management, and the operational improvements side of consulting. The compensation for a 24 yr old is also extremely good; offer is for about $425k a year, all in (base, bonus, phantom equity in the fund). The position is a minimum 2-year committment."

OP: i remembered you from when i originally read the thread! i dont think i replied, but it sure left a strong impression in my mind!

 

[brianmartin]

You've said you only had the "bare minimum" of clinical experience and research the first time around. And now you "don't have the time" to get any significant clinical experience? I think you should either give your spot to someone who wants it, or, get serious about medicine. There is no way you'll get into a top 10 school with minimal qualifications, and working on "Wall Street", while a significant life experience, is not going to rocket you above other applicants.

"Re-framing" your application is not really possible unless the underlying content changes. You would need to get some significant medical experience under your belt, whether research, or a clinical job, or ideally both. And you'll also have to prove that you won't back out again for a lucrative salary.

What exactly are your career goals? To practice clinical medicine, open your own practice? Most people who want a top 10 medical school are aiming for academic medical careers. Is that what you want?

 

[flip26]

So with equity markets down 35 percent this year, can we assume your juicy "private equity" gig drowned in the tsunami?

Whatever you perceived as the "bare minimum" for clinical experience a few years ago has, IMO, gone up significantly...more people are applying with more volunteer hours, more shadowing, and more research than ever before...the bar is higher for ECs now, so "re-frame" your thinking accordingly.

And recency of ECs matters...your old hours, long ago discontinued or disrupted, are stale and pretty much useless to an app you will make in 2 to 3 years...

 

[Bacchus]

its not foolish at all. look:

"I recently received a private equity offer for the year I am supposed to matriculate for medical school. Private equity is the kind of business that is extremely hard to break into and recruits very early. In terms of skill-sets developed, it is a combination of almost every facet of business - the dealmaking side of banking, investment acumen side of asset management, and the operational improvements side of consulting. The compensation for a 24 yr old is also extremely good; offer is for about $425k a year, all in (base, bonus, phantom equity in the fund). The position is a minimum 2-year committment."

OP: i remembered you from when i originally read the thread! i dont think i replied, but it sure left a strong impression in my mind!

He got a 2-year deferral. He should, if he still can, take that deferred seat at the "Top 20" school. Reapplying to ten schools without significantly improving his application is unwise on his part. Applying for a "Top 10" position is unwise as well. You're explanation for the deferment makes sense, but I don't see a commitment to medicine if the OP does another year of finance. He told the school he deferred at that he would be back after two years.

It is funny that the market is doing horribly and now this post is here, but thats a whole other thread.

 

[SoCuteMD]

Your chances of even getting in when you re-apply are slim to none. A bird in hand is better than two in the bush. Take it or you may not have the opportunity again.

 

[pianola]

You're really asking a pretty weird question. I mean it sounds like you know exactly what needs to be done to make an application competitive but you're averse to doing it and/or you have no time to do it. And, yeah, I imagine "top 10" schools might have some serious reservations about accepting a candidate who previously reneged on an agreement to defer for two years.

Schools will have records of whether or not you were accepted, you know (or at least they should if all acceptances become public knowledge starting May 15th). You can't exactly tell a little white lie on that one. And I'm not sure if "top 10" schools will be welcoming to a flight risk.

Your chances of getting into A medical school are probably not as bad as everyone predicts, but your chances of getting into a "top 10" are probably not so good.

[brianmartin's post has some really good advice, btw.]

 

[pazan]

Why don't you accept your deferral, get your MD, then apply to MBA programs at top 5 schools after you finish your MD? Getting your MD at a top 10 vs. top 20 may not matter much (at least not as much as MBA programs, from what my business friends tell me); you should be able to get into a competitive residency out of a top 20, which is what matters for your career.

I also disagree with the above posters. You'll be an intriguing applicant because of your potential to integrate business and medicine, regardless of how much clinical experience you have. Clinical experience is overrated... 40 years ago, applicants didn't need "hospital volunteering" to show they'd make good physicians, and my bosses/mentors from that generation turned out to be great physicians and now run their departments. If you have something else going for you, you'll find adcoms who commiserate.

 

[LizzyM]

Someone who has given up an acceptance, received a deferral, given up a deferral and been too busy to make time for what is, supposedly, a passion (whether you define that as clinical medicine, care of the sick, service to others, new findings in human biology, scientific discovery) isn't going to be a strong candidate for a top 10. The applicant comes across as just not wanting it badly enough.

Leave business and matriculate (if the offer is on the table for 2009) or give it up.

If you won't take that advice, consider the advice above of finding a couple of hours each week to do something for others as a way of demonstrating a willingness to provide service to the community, altruism, and to further your exposure to medicine as a career.

 

[flip26]

Someone who has given up an acceptance, received a deferral, given up a deferral and been too busy to make time for what is, supposedly, a passion (whether you define that as clinical medicine, care of the sick, service to others, new findings in human biology, scientific discovery) isn't going to be a strong candidate for a top 10. The applicant comes across as just not wanting it badly enough.

Leave business and matriculate (if the offer is on the table for 2009) or give it up.

If you won't take that advice, consider the advice above of finding a couple of hours each week to do something for others as a way of demonstrating a willingness to provide service to the community, altruism, and to further your exposure to medicine as a career.

I have heard of the granting of one year deferrals for personal reasons, but not 2 years, and I further have never heard of a deferral of any length for job reasons such as the OP had...so LizzyM can you comment on the prevalence of 2 year deferrals (say for Peace Corps?), and deferrals of even one year to "work on Wall Street" or wherever as opposed to doing a Fulbright, or Teach for America, or similar one year gigs?

 

[labgod]

matriculate. enough said.

 

[SirMonkey]

Thanks for the replies. I do think there is a convincing argument for either side of the coin: matriculating now (2009) vs. waiting 2-3 years. I've made my decision - I think that's clear. I also would like to re-apply in 2-3 years. I have my own convictions for doing this; please realize this is not the public forum to discuss this so I'm not responding re: my "passion" for medicine.

Let me re-phrase my question; I don't think I was clear to begin with. What are some outstanding extracurriculars and volunteer / clinical experiences you all have come across that would require a time committment that would fit into my schedule (mainly a few hours on the weekend, over the course of 2-3 years)?

Interesting tid-bit: I had a very candid discussion with an Adcom at another medical school. Her take: if I know I'm passionate about medicine now, there's no point in waiting any longer - just go. My take was essentially the door to become a doctor will likely stay open vs. the opportunity I have now in finance will likely not come again. I can learn a totally new skill-set, make a decent amount of money, and in 2-3 years when I've had this experience, make the jump to medical school; I'll have the latter third of my life to practice. Her candid response: if that's the story I'm pitching 2-3 years out, it looks like I wasn't sure in the past and who is to say I'm sure now. Instead, I should pitch something along the lines of I went into finance, decided through X, Y, and Z experiences that working at a desk wasn't for me; rather, some form of social service would be more full-filling...and make the logical jump to being a physician.

It's interesting b/c this latter point is actually not the case; yet, it seems like the story I'll have to pitch. Do you guys agree with this? Do you think I can sell the real story, which is as I've outlined above with clearly some major tweaks, or am I going to have to make the "story-jump"?

Finally, to someone's point above, I think there is a lot of value-add (particularly given the state of the healthcare system today) for a business + medicine background in the healthcare system. Clear evidence supports this: look at the rise of so many MD/MBA programs recently, Harvard just instituted a healthcare management program, etc. So, as many of you seem to think, it's really not all that bad to bring a business background to medicine. I don't think any physician / Adcom would ever look at my time in business as just "chasing a lucrative career" as someone stated above; there's a lot more intellectual and skill-set development (albeit probably not as much as in the sciences) that one can learn in "business." No point in knocking it on the pretext of medicine being the only true intellectual pursuit / Saint's work.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Lacheln]

Thanks for the replies. I do think there is a convincing argument for either side of the coin: matriculating now (2009) vs. waiting 2-3 years....

What the adcom member told you is similar to what everyone else on this thread has already said.

a) Deferring for two years and then putting it off another two is a huge red flag. And why wouldn't it be? There are tens of thousands of people out there who are super eager to start med school YESTERDAY, so you can probably see why your passion is questionable.

b) Yes, there is value in combining business and medicine, but that's why they have MD/MBA programs. You will need to make a strong case for why what you'll learn in private equity is applicable to medicine and isn't something you could have learned in b-school. Ie. why it was so important for you to take those 2 years. I wouldn't bring up the $$, although I bet that's the main reason you want to take the PE job. (Understandable, being able to pay for school out of pocket would rock, but no med school will accept it as a reason.)

c) Yes, you will have to story jump. Again, med schools want to see that passion and drive for medicine, which isn't what your story conveys AT ALL, so you'd best brush up on your BS skills.

d) You aren't going to be able to do anything extraordinary in a couple of hours every weekend. Med schools want to see you prioritize medicine, you've made it clear in various ways that you aren't willing to do so. If you hadn't applied, gotten in, and deferred, you would be able to sell the "I finally saw the light story" more easily.

 

[pianola]

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may very well be): You're asking us to come up with a convincing reason/plausible story for why you want to go to medical school two years from now? 😕

 

[Anatidae]

I think the "I saw the light" approach is obviously more appealing, likely because it's more typically of how most non-trads move from another career into medicine and it's more familiar to adcoms. However, I'm inclined to say you're better off being truthful and passionate about your convictions. If medicine truly is your passion and being a physician is the career you see yourself in when you're 60 years old, then that will show through in your application and in your interviews. If you can let them know that this was a once in a lifetime opportunity, that these skills you're learning translate into something meaningful, and that medicine, not finance, is where you have to be, then I think you'll be a fairly appealing candidate at any medical school.

You're obviously an extremely talented individual who not only got into medical school once, but also had the talent to land an amazing finance opportunity. My view is that you'll need to show that you've been continuously passionate about medicine throughout the entire process. With the limited time you have on the weekends, help out the underprivileged. Go to a homeless shelter, be a Big Brother, volunteer at a hospital, etc. Use that free time to prove that you still know where you're going and that you're really dedicated to this path. Show them that finance really is only a stop on the road. Then, take the next year off. Prepare for the MCAT, get more involved with whatever community work you've enjoyed, get more clinical exposure, talk to hospital directors about the business and maybe get into a relationship where you can get some kind of formalized shadowing to see the administrative aspects.

You need to sell yourself as an asset that these medical schools will want to fight over, not just another non-trad that found his true calling again after losing his way. You have a good focus and you'll have a wealth of experience to be a successful MD/MBA. Just make sure you have a plan now that really integrates all of that.

 

[amph119]

Dow Jones Industrial: currently 8900, down 350 on the day yet again.

Crawl up and hide in graduate/professional school as long as you can, in my opinion.

 

[LizzyM]

Interesting tid-bit: I had a very candid discussion with an Adcom at another medical school. Her take: if I know I'm passionate about medicine now, there's no point in waiting any longer - just go. My take was essentially the door to become a doctor will likely stay open vs. the opportunity I have now in finance will likely not come again. I can learn a totally new skill-set, make a decent amount of money, and in 2-3 years when I've had this experience, make the jump to medical school; I'll have the latter third of my life to practice.

No, the door will not stay open. That train is leaving the station (if you'll pardon the mixed metaphor).

The story that you "saw the light" is hard to swallow because the light was beaming down on you 2 years ago when you got an offer of admission and you turned away from the light. That shows some ambivalence... about medicine.

Have you considered working a few more years, maybe tranferring into health care administration, and going on for an MBA? The hospital CEO types make a hell of a lot more $ than the physicians and the hours and working conditions are better, too.

 

[diosa428]

To answer your original question - with only a few hours available on weekends, you will not have time to do any "outstanding extracurriculars". You won't have time to do a significant research, and I doubt anyone would take you on, considering #1 - you need to devote way more than a few hours a week and #2 - not many people go to the lab on the weekends, and even those that come in are not going to want to be training someone on the weekends, just taking care of their cells or whatever and then going home. So research is absolutely out. That basically leaves you with volunteer work. Since you don't have a lot of clinical experience, I'd suggest you do some kind of volunteer work that is medically related. But it certainly isn't going to make you stand out.

Will you regret what you're doing now if you don't get into medical school in 2-3 years? If the answer is yes, you should really matriculate now. I agree that it's unlikely that you will get into a top 10 school after rejecting an offer when they have tons of candidates vying for spots... you'll be lucky to get in at all.

 

[SirMonkey]

I agree that it's unlikely that you will get into a top 10 school after rejecting an offer when they have tons of candidates vying for spots... you'll be lucky to get in at all.

For the record, everyone on SDN also told me I wouldn't get a deferral at all, much less 2 years, to work in finance...

I think the answer is it's all about how you pitch it; if you can make a case on why your background fits, then it works.

Really looking for EC experiences you guys have seen that were outstanding and fit within my time constraints...

 

[Bacchus]

Trying to prove SDN wrong is not a good reason to defer yet again.

 

[Dr Lyss]

For the record, everyone on SDN also told me I wouldn't get a deferral at all, much less 2 years, to work in finance...

I think the answer is it's all about how you pitch it; if you can make a case on why your background fits, then it works.

Really looking for EC experiences you guys have seen that were outstanding and fit within my time constraints...

research is pretty much out. Contact local hospitals in your area and see if they take volunteers on the weekend. See if there are any health centers or clinics looking for volunteers. Honestly, you are not going to find some magical EC here that will all of a sudden make you look like an all star. It all depends on where you are, who you are, and what you are interested in. You are in business. Find a health care center and volunteer to help them with the business end of things. You seem like a very smart individual so take the same energy you put into business and put it into medicine (assuming you want that). I don't think anything you do will guarantee you a top 10 school but best of luck.

 

[aznb0y129]

Really looking for EC experiences you guys have seen that were outstanding and fit within my time constraints...

There were multiple posts made recently saying essentially the same thing. You aren't going to find "outstanding" ECs by only committing a few hours here and there on the weekends. My bare minimum hospital volunteer gig takes up 4 hours on Saturday and I'd hardly call it "extraordinary."

Also, given the competitive nature of pre-meds, do you really think people would willingly give out information regarding an incredible EC opportunity that only takes a few hours per week? If we knew of something like that, don't you think we would have snatched it up a long time ago?

The reason you are probably not getting the advice you're seeking is because many people view you as taking medicine for granted. You had your chance and you're given it up (so far) to collect some quick cash, IMO. Most of us would kill to get into a top 20 school and you turned it down. Now you want help to get into a top 10 program? While you are clearly very intelligent and will be successful in either industry, don't underestimate the impact that your deferral will have on your future application if you don't matriculate this year.

 

[diosa428]

The reason you are probably not getting the advice you're seeking is because many people view you as taking medicine for granted.

No, it's because no such opportunity exists. There is no outstanding, mindblowing EC one can do by simply devoting a few hours per weekend. Maybe trying to start your own company or non-profit/volunteer organization in something health care related... but that's going to take more than a few hours per week. But normal volunteering? Even if it's a cool gig, no one's going to be like "OH WOW, look how this applicant spent 4 hours every Saturday doing this! What great commitment!"

40+ hours/week doing finance/business and 4 hours/week doing medicine just isn't going to impress anyone. Although it's always a possibility that schools could be interested in someone who's done something other than the typical non-premed path.

 

[Dulcina]

with regards to "Instead, I should pitch something along the lines of I went into finance, decided through X, Y, and Z experiences that working at a desk wasn't for me; rather, some form of social service would be more full-filling...and make the logical jump to being a physician."

I immediately see a problem with this. You had already decided to go into medicine, and applied, then deferred. You then changed your mind AWAY from medicine, took the finance job, then something in the finance job made you want to do medicine again? It sounds like you're too uncertain, and something else in the future might make you change your mind away from medicine again. I think the truthful story is much better (as well as being more truthful!)


just my 2cc

 

[Bacchus]

with regards to "Instead, I should pitch something along the lines of I went into finance, decided through X, Y, and Z experiences that working at a desk wasn't for me; rather, some form of social service would be more full-filling...and make the logical jump to being a physician."

I immediately see a problem with this. You had already decided to go into medicine, and applied, then deferred. You then changed your mind AWAY from medicine, took the finance job, then something in the finance job made you want to do medicine again? It sounds like you're too uncertain, and something else in the future might make you change your mind away from medicine again. I think the truthful story is much better (as well as being more truthful!)


just my 2cc

Its fine... if the OP is truthful when/if he reinterviews he won't even have time to get his story across after the fact that he deferred and then turned his back comes up.

OP, take your head out of your posterior, go with the top 20 seat, stop thinking about rankings, realize that the market is horrible and finance isn't an option right now, and become the physician you wanted to be.

Better yet, maybe you should give this up all together and give the seat to someone that wants the seat.

 

[skyline42]

@OP - If you truly believe that 2 years at the PE shop will steer you better in the direction of what you ultimately want to do, then chase after it, and don't let doubt keep you from your dreams. If, however, as one poster put it, you are just chasing a "good, sure thing" (which may not be so sure given the markets these days), then consider at what age you really are going to start down that path of your true calling.

As to you original question, put some of that integrative skill-set to good use. Consult for hospitals. Help local clinics improve their operations. Anything pro-bono in the interplay between business and medicine would be an appropriate demonstration of your interest and uniqueness. You are in a very privileged position - either way, I have the feeling you'll be successful regardless of what you choose.

 

[Anatidae]

Its fine... if the OP is truthful when/if he reinterviews he won't even have time to get his story across after the fact that he deferred and then turned his back comes up.

OP, take your head out of your posterior, go with the top 20 seat, stop thinking about rankings, realize that the market is horrible and finance isn't an option right now, and become the physician you wanted to be.

Better yet, maybe you should give this up all together and give the seat to someone that wants the seat.

I think that this is too short-sighted. Sure, we'd all die for a top 20 seat. But if you had the shot to go to the moon, would you really pass it up? There are some opportunities in life that you don't get a chance to replicate. It'd be foolhardy to think that his path will be any less rewarding and any less valuable to the medical community at large.

How many biological science majors are there that go into medicine and will excellent primary care physicians or academic researchers? A lot.

How many businessmen trained in private equity are there? Not nearly as many.

Unique skill sets are always going to be valuable, especially when they can be applied for the betterment of health care and medicine. While I don't think it's realistic to guarantee a spot at a university with prestigious MD and MBA programs, it's not unrealistic to believe that he can be competitive as long as he stays involved and stays focused on his service-oriented goal.

Plus, just because investment banks are failing and the stock market is crashing doesn't meant that finance is a bad field to be in. Even if the money isn't necessarily there (lower bonuses), the skill set is still the same, the training is still the same, and the challenge may even be greater. Lots of companies are going to be extremely undervalued by the end of this slide, so once speculatory fears subside a bit, there's probably a lot of opportunities to be had.

 

[Jonnymed]

First, OP, I hope I never have to go to school with you, or interact with you in a professional sense, as you seem to be arrogant, with a sense of entitlement, and seem to be ****ing all over the rest of the people that have worked hard to get where they are, and then you ask for their advice. Some, of us, and this might surprise you, have spent major portions of our lives giving our time to our community. I know, it's shocking, but many of us are actually dedicated to this profession for a variety of reasons.

I wonder how the **** you got into a "top 20 medical school" in the first place? Given your "bare minimum" clinical and research experiences, good MCAT, and decent GPA, I'm dissapointed that the top med schools didn't weed you out right away. Even if you are a good interviewer, you would have nothing to back up what you were saying. You should write a pre-med book on teaching pre-meds to answer the "why Medicine" question without any real experience. I guess I was under the misguided impression that the really "good" medical schools in the country were looking for people that had actually tested, and confirmed their desire to be in medicine.

Diosa and others are right, the convient EC that fits nicely into a weekend schedule is hard to find. In fact, I have yet to see anything close to being impressive that only happened on the weekends. Though I guess I have only looked for experiences that have been more broad in scope.

I actually hope you dont take your top 20 deferral, and instead decide to take time to figure out if medicine is really what you want to do. The fact that you have a guaranteed spot to a top 20, and are looking to move up into a top 10 is comical, but I guess there are plenty of people in this world I disagree with.

Also, ask yourself if you would be considering medicine if the economy were still booming, and your prospects in business were as strong as they were a few years ago.

SirMonkey:
"Instead, I should pitch something along the lines of I went into finance, decided through X, Y, and Z experiences that working at a desk wasn't for me; rather, some form of social service would be more full-filling...and make the logical jump to being a physician.

It's interesting b/c this latter point is actually not the case; yet, it seems like the story I'll have to pitch"

Are you kidding me? You are a disgrace.

 

[Bacchus]

I think that this is too short-sighted. Sure, we'd all die for a top 20 seat. But if you had the shot to go to the moon, would you really pass it up? There are some opportunities in life that you don't get a chance to replicate. It'd be foolhardy to think that his path will be any less rewarding and any less valuable to the medical community at large.

How many biological science majors are there that go into medicine and will excellent primary care physicians or academic researchers? A lot.

How many businessmen trained in private equity are there? Not nearly as many.

Unique skill sets are always going to be valuable, especially when they can be applied for the betterment of health care and medicine. While I don't think it's realistic to guarantee a spot at a university with prestigious MD and MBA programs, it's not unrealistic to believe that he can be competitive as long as he stays involved and stays focused on his service-oriented goal.

Plus, just because investment banks are failing and the stock market is crashing doesn't meant that finance is a bad field to be in. Even if the money isn't necessarily there (lower bonuses), the skill set is still the same, the training is still the same, and the challenge may even be greater. Lots of companies are going to be extremely undervalued by the end of this slide, so once speculatory fears subside a bit, there's probably a lot of opportunities to be had.

The OP's decision is foolhardy. The majority of posts have demonstrated that. If you get a seat, you go. If you get a seat, defer, then you really go. Turning your back on a school that graciously granted you a deferment is a huge mark against you.

 

[labgod]

i think you have to ask yourself where your passion is at. if you only had one choice between treating patients and working in a finance, which one will you follow?

Although unlikely, you may get into a top 10 school next time you apply. whether you agree or not, it is quite risky. then, are you willing to take a risk of possibly not becoming a physician because you want to earn some more money or for extra-prestige? (i.e. going to harvard, hopkins, as opposed to, say... cornell or uc- san diego?)

sure, this upcoming two years in finance may be a once in a life time opportunity for you, but so may be your career as a physician. you can't do everything.

 

[SirMonkey]

Hi all, thanks for the responses.

Quick response to Bacchus and Jonnymed: Consider yourselves very fortunate that you know exactly what you want to do with the rest of your lives at an age of < 21 and have no competing interests. Not everyone is like you; in fact, the majority of the population isn't. There's absolutely nothing wrong in trying out new things or having "stops in the road" along the way, as one poster put it. A pre-qualification to become a doctor is not "this is what I've wanted to do all my life;" rather, I think it's "I see the value of this profession and recognize some form of net satisfaction I can derive from it, given all the positive and negative aspects." It's no different than choosing to be a fireman, teacher, financier, pilot, etc. I think it's a common misnomer among pre-meds (I know it was while I was in undergrad) that there's some great sacrifice when one chooses to goto med school. There isn't any more so than most other professions.

Check out this quick link and browse through the profiles; my situation isn't as unique as everyone thinks. In particular, read Sophia Virani's profile - there are many just like her (though on the whole, probably a very small percentage). http://www.hbs.edu/mba/academics/mdmbaprofiles.html

Re: top 10 vs. top 20 med school, let me clarify: my work experience at time of application will set me up well to get into a top business school. It would make sense to complement that with a top med school from a logistical standpoint (5 vs. 6 years) and an integrative curriculum / support system standpoint. This is the reason for my original concern with "getting into a top 10 school"; ideally, I'd not like to "trade down" the business education or lose the logistical and support system benefits of a top md / mba program by having to split up the education into a 4 + 2 year system. Hence, my original question: how to reframe my application to make me a more comepetitive applicant for a top 10 medical school.

I think I've gotten a few good responses to that last questoin; the most valuable being to start displaying this buzz phrase "integrative approach to medicine + business" in the next 2-3 years. I think that makes sense.

That being said, I think the "med + business" world is still in it's early stages (though set to take off in the next 4-6 years given healthcare costs; let's see what happens post election this November...). I haven't found a lot of good resources online (including md-mba.org) that really explore this area, options avail. to people with md/mba, etc. If you all know of any solid resources, please do pass along.

Thanks.

 

[EM_Rebuilder]

I agree with other people that you getting into any medical school after 'giving up a seat' is virtually nill...let alone one you think that is the Top 10. If I was interviewing you, I would have HUGE reservations giving you an acceptance when you already were given one, and virtually 'ditched' the school to make money elsewhere. Deferments are 'typically' view for family type emergenicies and such...not to go work somewhere else for awhile.

I am not saying there is anyting wrong with making money, but in medicine that is often a very taboo thing. I think many people would view that you applied to medical school to make money, had this fancy finance job arise that made getting rich look easier, so you took it, and even if you were successful or not at getting rich, most would now view that your time in finance was belly up so you are back to the 'sure thing' of going to medical school.

On the whole top business school vs top medical school and combining education, I do not know what the chances of that really are. That might be something that needs to be done indepedent of one another, even if you got into medical school. I went to Texas Tech and we did have a MD/MBA 4 year program (they worked their tails off in the summer and had extra classes 1st and 2nd year).


Good Luck...

 

[labgod]

fuzzy math. you are not saving any time by reapplying. If you decide to reapply, you are losingtime because you won't be in school for next two years. so from "logistical" standpoint your decision to reapply do not make sense in terms of time. integrated curriculum? i think that's the least thing you should be worried about in your situation. how much do you think you will be more prepared by taking couple more classes that are more "integrated"?

i understand you want to go into the route of md/mba, and you probably do wanna go to top 10 business school if not the top 4 (harvard, mit, penn, stanford). but you don't have to go harvard, penn, stanford med to attend their business schools! (especially in your situation, where reapplying is very dangerous!) in fact, you should probably go to the school that you deferred and apply for business school separately (and apply for it so that you could go after your second year). commitment is a big part of medicine, and it will be questioned if you reapply for med school.

maybe you should contact a few deans of medical schools that you are interested in and see what they think you should do.

 

[tkim]

Hi there,

I'm very curious to get input on how to re-frame a medical school application for 2-3 years out.

Quick background: I went to a top 20 undergrad school, 3.6+ gpa, mid 30's mcat and got into a top 20 medical school out of undergrad. I then deferred med school for 2 years to work on Wall Street. I've decided to continue my wall street career for 2-3 additional years in a different line of business, but anticipate re-applying to med school in 2-3 years.

Cynical translation: I want to make more money before I go to med school.

I'll have to re-take the MCAT, as the original scores have expired. Additionally, given my work experience, my chances for getting into a top b-school (M7) are pretty good - I'd like to complement that with a top 10 med school (anticipate doing an MD/MBA at the same institution).

Curious to what you guys think would be the best way to re-frame my application?

Cynical translation: How do I explain my decision to give up a guaranteed seat in med school in order to make more money and not make it sound like I gave up a seat in med school to make more money?

(Other than killing the MCAT on re-take, which is an obvious). I didn't have a terrible amount of clinical experience and research experience out of undergrad - only the absolute bare minimum.

Having the time to do extensive clinical volunteering while working in finance is unlikely over the next 2-3 years. I do engage in other forms of volunteering around the city (along the likes of big brothers big sisters). I'll likely not have a large amount of time to devote on the research front either.

Cynical translation: I don't want to spend a lot of time buffing up my application, because I'll be making more money, but if someone has a surefire way to buff up my app by only spending minimal time on the weekends, which of course, if it existed, everyone would know about it and do it, can you let me in on it? Because I really don't want to do much in order to get into med school, especially if it interferes with making more money.

So, how would you go about re-framing the app, both in terms of the story I present and the content I bring to the table in terms of life experiences, outside of finance? I realize I need a convincing story given I'm giving up a deferral - not sure how much visibility med schools will have into that fact when I re-apply, though.

Thanks in advance.

Cynical translation: So, the rest of you premeds who would give their left arm for the guaranteed seat that I'm waving in front of you. Can you tell me the surefire, minimal time investment way of buffing my app in areas outside of finance, while I make some money. And could you help me make up a convincing lie that would obscure the fact that I turned down admission to med school for a money-making opportunity which would not make me look like a total tool. Oh and, could you clue me in on whether the med schools that I apply to will know that I turned down a previous admission?

And could you make it so that this tactic works not just for the top 20 med school I got into, but for top 10 schools as well? Because I really want to get a business degree at a top 10 business school, too.

---

Sorry, it's just the way I see it. Good luck.

 

[Lacheln]

So, I think if you are dead-set on reapplying, accepting the very real risks that everyone (including adcoms) have mentioned, you have two hurdles:

-Clinical Experience
-Justifying your choice to give up a seat and put off med school, which means showing that what you learned was critical to your first choice path (being a doctor)

If you up your time available to 6-8 hours on the weekend (I know, that sucks, but many many people do it as non-trads and 3 is not going to cut it) then I'd think a good choice would be to find a low-budget clinic and ask if you can offer your services helping with their financials (investments, books, whatever). I would guess they'd be fine with that since they're low budget and likely need the help, and you're free. Then I would ask them if you can either volunteer there in a more clinical capacity, or if they know of somewhere else that would allow that. Large hospitals often have volunteer hifts on the weekend, but you'll be doing scut work like transport, blood runs, greeting.

I think the first position would give you a talking point to show that you have a genuine interest in using your business skills in a medical setting, and the second would give you that absolutely critical clinical experience. The first option would be an interesting and unusual thing to talk about, the other much more generic, but you're bringing no skills to the table there so that's the way it is.

 

[SirMonkey]

TKim, you're hilarious. I guess those resident hours / cynicism developed on rounds is really kicking in. Have you considered a career writing for Scrubs? You could be responsible for the voiceover segments...

 

[tkim]

TKim, you're hilarious. I guess those resident hours / cynicism developed on rounds is really kicking in. Have you considered a career writing for Scrubs? You could be responsible for the voiceover segments...

I'm an EM resident, so my bull**** meter needle is usually buried in the red.

Dude, you need to convince people that you have great non-financial reasons why you turned down a sure thing for two more years on Wall Street. The reason why you are here now is because you don't have one.

Quite honestly it sounds like you want to go med school to extend your business training - not the other way around. It sounds like going to med school is some stepping stone to some untapped market in medicine that's going to make you bank.

Forgive me if I find your approach and requests distasteful.

 

[VincentAdultman]

Hi there,

I'm very curious to get input on how to re-frame a medical school application for 2-3 years out.

Quick background: I went to a top 20 undergrad school, 3.6+ gpa, mid 30's mcat and got into a top 20 medical school out of undergrad. I then deferred med school for 2 years to work on Wall Street. I've decided to continue my wall street career for 2-3 additional years in a different line of business, but anticipate re-applying to med school in 2-3 years.

I'll have to re-take the MCAT, as the original scores have expired. Additionally, given my work experience, my chances for getting into a top b-school (M7) are pretty good - I'd like to complement that with a top 10 med school (anticipate doing an MD/MBA at the same institution).

Curious to what you guys think would be the best way to re-frame my application? (Other than killing the MCAT on re-take, which is an obvious). I didn't have a terrible amount of clinical experience and research experience out of undergrad - only the absolute bare minimum.

Having the time to do extensive clinical volunteering while working in finance is unlikely over the next 2-3 years. I do engage in other forms of volunteering around the city (along the likes of big brothers big sisters). I'll likely not have a large amount of time to devote on the research front either.

So, how would you go about re-framing the app, both in terms of the story I present and the content I bring to the table in terms of life experiences, outside of finance? I realize I need a convincing story given I'm giving up a deferral - not sure how much visibility med schools will have into that fact when I re-apply, though.

Thanks in advance.

Sirmonkey, I think you're missing the big picture here. Your greatest hurdle to getting into a top 10 med school isn't your lack of steller EC's, but rather the fact that you're a collosal douchebag.

I'm a resident, FWIW.

 

[Bacchus]

OP you're missing the point. YOU HAVE AN ACCEPTANCE. By giving it up you will have a hard time making it through the application process if this information is public. Those people you cited me to, I didn't read their profiles by the way, more than likely did not get a deferment and then give it up. Listen, settle for gold even though you want platinum and give your head some fresh air instead of the BS you're trying to throw at us. If you're that money hungry (which tkim points out very well) just do business.

 

[elementals]

LOL. Epic thread.

Unfortunately, I agree with all the "douchebag" assessments. Or well, lemme put it this way. You might not be the douchebag you're coming across as. You might actually be a nice person irl. That said, I don't think you're cut out for medicine. Medicine's about compassion, not about money. Sure most doctors end up disenchanted and disgruntled, but you should at least go into medicine for the right reasons. If you don't, you'll end up regretting it, bailing out, and wasting time.

The economy won't stay bad forever. Ride it out where you are. I think you're fitting right in on "Wall Street".

 

[alan06]

You gonna have to defend yourself really well why you would defer med school to work in wall street. Other than that...clinical work is an absolute must, it shows your interest in help others and medicine.

 

[MaiPenRai]

As someone who took time off between undergrad and med school to pursue other interests, I can understand your situation. I think you are making a good decision, provided you understand that you may not be granted admission to medical school at all. Consider your situation as similar to someone who is applying for the first time and has no idea how the process will pan out. And I mean this sincerely...none of us have any idea how this will pan out (I know there are some adcoms here, but they may not be your adcoms when you apply). The fact that you were admitted once does not mean you will be admitted again. It seems like you will be happy in finance if med school doesn't pan out, so go ahead and take the job.

If you want to try again for medical school, you will sort of need to start over with the ECs. Yours will be really old when you apply, and people will question what your commitments "now" are (because why does it really matter what you did 5 years ago as far as volunteering?). I think the best extracurriculars are things that you, yourself enjoy. None of us can tell you what to do...trust me, if you were doing something "just for the application" it shows. I know some of my friends in finance had big brother/big sister through their job. Regardless of whether you can put it on your med school resume, it would be a great experience! Also, have you considered tutoring kids in math, etc. on the weekends? I know there are a ton of YMCA programs in NYC that specialize in that type of thing.

Once you are finished with your job, I would advise you to take another year and a half or so and make it your "application" year. Really explore the whole "medicine" thing and see if it's for you. Perhaps join a research lab at a hospital and volunteer in their clinical section for a hours each day before/after work. Take time to study for the MCAT (a really high score will at least get your application a second glance). This year is not just important for polishing your application...it's also a good way to see if medicine is really for you ('cause most people say it's not that much fun during med school...residency...fellowship...early practice...) or if you just liked the idea of a high-powered career where you could help people.

Again, ECs should be something you enjoy. "Fitting it in" is obvious and won't really help your application (which is weaker because you chose business over medicine already) so make it count.

 

[brianmartin]

OP if you are still around, you're right--none of us can judge your passion for medicine over the internet. And none of us pre-meds can honestly claim job security is not one aspect of why we are choosing medicine. Of course it is, we all like to be compensated for hard work, it's only fair. But that's just a small slice of the pie my friend. Hopefully this thread has encouraged you to think further about why exactly you want an "MD" in the first place. The best advice I can think of for you, if indeed you are committed to medicine, is to stop your finance job and take a year off to construct a REAL med school application. Get involved in a research project, volunteer in clinics, do EMT, whatever. If you want a "Super-EC" there is only one I can recommend, ER scribe.

 

[lapelirroja]

I think the best part is where it is mentioned that getting back into med school is no problem but the business opportunity is once in a lifetime.

LizzyM said the train is leaving the station...I think you should let that sink in a bit.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

Resurrecting a long-dead thread here...

Although my interests were as far from private equity as can be (global health), I was in a situation exactly like the OP. I applied and was accepted to medical school in 2002. I received 2-year deferrals because I won a fancy-pants scholarship to study in England for three years (I could have extended those 2-yr deferrals into 3 if the need materialized). While there, I became convinced that medicine was not right for me and that it was not necessary for a serious career in international public health, let go of all of my acceptances, and actually poked around the job market for quite awhile (including going on the McKinsey/BCG/etc circuit).

Only after I was certain that I had what it took to be a doctor did I reapply. I only applied to 4 schools, one of which I had been accepted to in 2002 (Hopkins) which refused to interview me again. So there was definitely a bridge burnt, but by and large it was a successful process. I had a clear and coherent story explaining my path and no one seemed all that bothered about it.

My medical school, Columbia, perhaps has one of the strongest elements of ex-Wall Streeters of any med school in the country (which I attribute to both being in New York and having the most 'pedigreed' name of any of the NYC medical schools). The specter of the finance industry hovers like a golden dream over the school as well (at least until recently), sparking dreams among the indebted and disillusioned who know they could have parlayed their blue chip undergrad degree into a Wall Street job. My classmates with significant business experience are actually very dedicated students; the vast majority complete residency (intriguingly, often in something surgical). I was as prejudiced as anyone against them before school started (after all, making money is practically anathema to someone in public health), but I am happy to say I've been disproven.

The point is, the guy is right-- not everyone knows if their interest in medicine is both genuine and sustainable when they're 21. Some people really do need to run around the track a couple of times. While I can understand resentment at his 'embarassment of riches,' he's really not all that off-base.