re-training and re-boarding into medonc ... worth it or even practical?

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33% of grads found no opportunities in their preferred geographic zone in 2014. What has happened to grad numbers and fraction numbers since then? Multiple people had contracts pulled last cycle only to have them reinstated in the nick of time.

Btw 2014 isn't the 1990s. You don't sound like you know the fl market well, but it has absolutely tightened up since 2014-2015. The same is true in Texas and many other sunbelt markets

@RadsWFA1900 brings up a point regarding the lack of Terry walls involvement in the 2020 data.
I refer to it as the “Terry Wall” data like a Kleenex. Trevor Royce conducted it this time I believe, and the survey had a much higher response rate compared to when Terry Wall ran it (94% compared to 30% during the period 2012-2017).

Several (many?) of the most vocal posters here work in Florida. Is it possible that your anecdotal reports about your local job market are not generalizable beyond Florida?

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this thread has been hijacked by usual plant “where is the evidence” poster. Plenty of threads to discuss job market. I suggest we stick to med onc retraining, and yeah somebody said strippers. Those are fine too.
 
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this thread has been hijacked by usual plant “where is the evidence” poster. Plenty of threads to discuss job market. I suggest we stick to med onc retraining, and yeah somebody said strippers. Those are fine too.
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Several (many?) of the most vocal posters here work in Florida. Is it possible that your anecdotal reports about your local job market are not generalizable beyond Florida?
Not like it's the third most populated state in the country with high desirability from moving surveys or anything like that.

But if you want to play that game, check out other desirable sunbelt metros and you get the same answer. When was the last decent job opening in Austin texas or with the big private group in Houston? Texas, nothing special just the second most populated state in the country with the highest number of F500 HQs the country.

You seem to be an expert on the sunshine state, let's see you tell us how great things are in the lone star state...

Getting back on topic, if someone had to be in a decent sized fl, tx or ca metro I'd absolutely tell them to do med onc over rad Onc, with the understanding that both specialties are seeing pressure but one far more than the other
 
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I refer to it as the “Terry Wall” data like a Kleenex. Trevor Royce conducted it this time I believe, and the survey had a much higher response rate compared to when Terry Wall ran it (94% compared to 30% during the period 2012-2017).

Several (many?) of the most vocal posters here work in Florida. Is it possible that your anecdotal reports about your local job market are not generalizable beyond Florida?
Over 6 years, 302 recent graduates completed the survey for an average response rate of 30.2% from the most recent Trevor Royce publication (2019 in JACR at the link). Do you know where the paper with 94% RR is published?

 
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Over 6 years, 302 recent graduates completed the survey for an average response rate of 30.2% from the most recent Trevor Royce publication (2019 in JACR at the link). Do you know where the paper with 94% RR is published?

Daniel Flynn was pretty good too. 100% response rate

 
Over 6 years, 302 recent graduates completed the survey for an average response rate of 30.2% from the most recent Trevor Royce publication (2019 in JACR at the link). Do you know where the paper with 94% RR is published?

Just watch shauna Campbell’s ARRO presentation. She referenced that paper as a contrast to their very high response rate this pat year
 
Just for fun, went to US Oncology website to look at jobs.

All medonc and surgery. One palliative job. Zero RadOnc listings.
 
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Just for fun, went to US Oncology website to look at jobs.

All medonc and surgery. One palliative job. Zero RadOnc listings.
USON may not have an functional job search website (could almost say the same thing about ASTRO sometimes). The Evansville job that gets posted every few months includes one of their centers


 
Just for fun, went to US Oncology website to look at jobs.

All medonc and surgery. One palliative job. Zero RadOnc listings.
Given. The deniers out there know who they are.
 
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Thanks for reiterating what has been iterated and iterated and iterated here before: the job market is bad. And "bad" is "totally subjective" as you rightly say. Your assessment and what's been "advertised here" totally track... on paper. All that doesn't track is on SDN it's "quit peeing on my head" and the countering notion is "howdaya like this rain we're having." The numbers are the numbers. How the numbers are couched will be up for debate even when/if we get >10% unemployment.
What would convince anyone in a position of authority that there is a problem? Really what would it take? 25-30% with no FT? Residents self immolating during chart rounds?
 
What would convince anyone in a position of authority that there is a problem? Really what would it take? 25-30% with no FT? Residents self immolating during chart rounds?
Oversupply is not a problem for employers. It is a feature not a bug. Employers benefit from oversupply.
 
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Oversupply is not a problem for employers. It is a feature not a bug. Employers benefit from oversupply.

It's important to never forget that Dr. Dennis Hallahan said this explicitly: "We need more residents so we can pay our docs less."
 
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It's important to never forget that Dr. Dennis Hallahan said this explicitly: "We need more residents so we can pay our docs less."
Great people over at Wash U
 
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It's important to never forget that Dr. Dennis Hallahan said this explicitly: "We need more residents so we can pay our docs less."
Honestly, he will get his wish afterall
 
I will agree with the premise that rad onc and med onc are not remotely the same job, and being good at/fulfilled by one won't necessarily lead to the same outcome for the other. Ditto radiology. Ditto IR.

Rad onc is most comparable to a surgical subspecialty IMO. Obviously without the cutting and sewing part. More like "Gentleman's Local Therapy". Ascribe both positive and negative connotations to that moniker.
 
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If I could do it all over again, I probably would've done ENT. The surgery subspecialties are great in that there is not constant encroachment by the advanced providers crowd, technology probably will never substantially change the number of cases you can physically do and the MDs basically hit a retirement age where they can no longer safely practice at a high level.

Medically Oncology looks great now and for the foreseeable future but there is 0 guarantee that training spots and programs won't multiple and that there won't be significant encroachment from advanced practitioners in the future. One thing Med Onc will always have going for it is that it is a fellowship after IM training. This makes it much closer to a true employment market regarding trainee numbers since you can not just Match/SOAP in random folks that have no other training prospects like you can now do in Rad Onc.

This is why I think the only way forward for rad onc is for the specialty to fold back in radiology and become a fellowship after that general training. After completing general radiology training if folks see opportunity in rad onc they will apply and fill programs and if they don't programs will simply go unfilled. Given enough years of going unfilled training programs will just contract and close and the market will correct itself. The current Astro statement, while a positive acknowledgement that is about 5 years too late, will not prevent the bottom 50% of programs to continue to fill with under and un qualified applicants during the match and soap given their department's economic incentives to go after cheap labor.
 
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