Reaching out for advice regarding research

[Ntran1986]

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Hi Everyone!
I was hoping i could get some advice from you all about my little situation. First off I'm looking to apply to only DO schools so I'm not sure if this detail will play into my situation. I'm currently a research assistant for Harvard Medical School in the department of Neurology. Well I've only been there since September, but I am really unhappy with my position. I have found myself testing my moral stand point with all the animal testing that is being done. By the way, I am far from an animal activist, but some of the things i witness and have to take part of makes my cry inside just a little 🙁. So I am asking, how long is the minimal time i should stay in order for me not to look flaky. I would like to ask for a letter or recommendation also but I think that my time there has been too short. Also, How much weight do you guys and gals think the Harvard Medical School hold? Thanks everyone for reading and can't wait to hear your take on everything!! 🙂

 

[rddoms]

I'd stick with it until you can get a publication at the least. I did animal research during my MS, and it takes a bit to get used to it. One of the rotations was BRUTAL, but again you get used to it. Look at it this way, research is what improves medicine, so the end result is good.

What kind of research are you doing, and what have you witnessed that makes you a bit uneasy?

 

[Ntran1986]

Oh wow rddoms, You're quick with the response! Thanks!!

We're doing research on enhancing visual learning through gene expression. There have been some incidents that included cannibalism that would not like to re-live haha. But more so it's the mentality behind it all. It seems as though some of these animals have lost the will to live, and that can be very hard on the heart sometimes. I know that this research is what improves medicine, but it's definitely not easy sometimes. And plus I'm not a big fan of chasing rats when they escape. Catching a rat is probably one of the top 3 most frustrating things I have ever done haha I may be exaggerating 🙂

 

[Flushot]

Just curious: when are you planning on applying? I would think that if you plan to do it next year, you should stick it out, maybe even during that cycle. It makes for great interview talk.

That said, it's unfortunate that you feel that way and I actually had similar research with depression studies in mice. I wasn't personally disheartened by it but I could understand why it would be hard to deal with.

I don't know about name recognition but I think the involvement and enthusiasm for the research mean more, at least, in my case. I mean, if all I did during my research was run PCR and feed cells, then it wouldn't matter the institution or the topic; it would just seem like tripe. Just get the most out of it that you can while you're there.

 

[rddoms]

I rotated in a lab that was researching the effect of lead ingestion on neural spine development in the kitten brain. These kittens were put into the K-Hole with an overdose of ketamine, blood was drawn from their left ventricle after a thoracotomy, and then... well... the brain was harvested and sectioned for microscopy. That is brutal!

The fact of the matter is that you are doing a good thing, helping expand medical knowledge. Look at it that way, and it will get a lot easier. You started the project, so finish it. When you interview, that will make for a great story. The interviewer will ask you a question about something you are proud of, and you can say that you stuck with your research even though it was quite disheartening at times! Plus, publications are wonderful CV material.

Best of luck, and hopefully the research becomes easier for you.

 

[Ntran1986]

Thanks both of you for your insight! I think I will try to stick it out and build a tolerance. Flushot, I'm not applying for a while. another year and a half. What you mentioned is what I'm deathly afraid of. The worst thing that could happen is an interviewer ask about my experience in research and I end up giving off a sense of enthusiasm deficiency haha. But on the upside, rddoms makes an excellent point with showing dedication even through some hard times for the greater good. I will stick with it at least until the end of this semester. If there is still something inside me that wants out, I will probably start looking for other research that strikes my interest that I might be a little more comfortable with. In everyone's opinion, is research becoming more and more demanded by DO schools?

 

[rddoms]

I wouldn't say that it is demanded, but it can definitely help. I'm glad you have decided to stick with it, at least for the time being. Do you have an idea of when the lab plans on publishing the study you are working on now? Keeping with it until then is the best plan. If you just can't get used to it, don't quit the lab until you find another lab that will take you. Good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[Ntran1986]

Do you have an idea of when the lab plans on publishing the study you are working on now?

That's also an issue of concern. There are no plans on publication and from what I've heard from others who have been there for a while, there isn't much opportunity for it either 🙁 I got the impression that this is really only good for the experience and a letter of recommendation.

 

[rddoms]

Then you should definitely start looking for a new lab. Don't quit this one until you have found a new one, but that would be enough reason for me to find a new lab.

 

[Ntran1986]

Then you should definitely start looking for a new lab. Don't quit this one until you have found a new one, but that would be enough reason for me to find a new lab.

Hey rddoms,
I just want to say thanks so much for responding so much!! You've been really helpful and if you were in Boston I would ask if you would be my mentor haha. Luckily, I'm in Boston so there are lots of research positions around. It'll just be a little competitive in obtaining those positions. But I agree with you and I do think it's time to start the good ol' job hunt again. I would really love some kind of publication. Thanks again!

 

[rddoms]

Not a problem. People were extremely helpful when I was a premed, and I am just trying to pay it forward. Keep us updated!

 

[bigyihoroi]

Hi Everyone!
I was hoping i could get some advice from you all about my little situation. First off I'm looking to apply to only DO schools so I'm not sure if this detail will play into my situation. I'm currently a research assistant for Harvard Medical School in the department of Neurology. Well I've only been there since September, but I am really unhappy with my position. I have found myself testing my moral stand point with all the animal testing that is being done. By the way, I am far from an animal activist, but some of the things i witness and have to take part of makes my cry inside just a little 🙁. So I am asking, how long is the minimal time i should stay in order for me not to look flaky. I would like to ask for a letter or recommendation also but I think that my time there has been too short. Also, How much weight do you guys and gals think the Harvard Medical School hold? Thanks everyone for reading and can't wait to hear your take on everything!! 🙂

I think an LOR written by someone who knows you well is more important than a professor from harvard who barely knows much about you. If I were you, I would just ask for LOR now and explain to the writer about my situation for an urgent need of an LOR.

 

[Flushot]

Thanks both of you for your insight! I think I will try to stick it out and build a tolerance. Flushot, I'm not applying for a while. another year and a half. What you mentioned is what I'm deathly afraid of. The worst thing that could happen is an interviewer ask about my experience in research and I end up giving off a sense of enthusiasm deficiency haha. But on the upside, rddoms makes an excellent point with showing dedication even through some hard times for the greater good. I will stick with it at least until the end of this semester. If there is still something inside me that wants out, I will probably start looking for other research that strikes my interest that I might be a little more comfortable with. In everyone's opinion, is research becoming more and more demanded by DO schools?

I mean, greater good is nice and all, but again, it's all on how it affected you because they're analyzing you in the interview. That's just how I see it. I hope the best for you if you stick it out but really try to get a lot out of it.

I guess to add to big, it'll help you for that LoR too.

Research is far from being 'demanded'. I'd say if anything EC related is needed, it would be clinical because more schools are requiring that physician's letter, sometimes DO only letters. Then again, it might also depend on the school.

I'd say you're on the right track regardless. Just enjoy your time there, even if it can get depressing at times.

 

[Melicopter]

First off, how are rats escaping? I've worked in animal research for 2 years and our rats don't escape!

Anyway, that's not the reason I'm replying.

I have two ideas for you. First, have you discussed with anyone your sensitivity to the animal research? We had a student in our lab who wasn't comfortable with animal work, so they found other things for her to do. In addition, there may be other researchers in the same department you may be able to work with. I'd have an open and honest conversation with your supervisor if I were you.

Second, you may find that it becomes easier with time and exposure, and a different attitude. Some of the work bothers me a little, but I can remove myself from the situation when I have a job to do (like necropsy days!), and remember that I'm doing the work for a greater good.

It does help that my lab is very conscientious. The PI is a pretty sensitive person, as is the post-doc who serves as my supervisor. Our work may be more laid-back than yours. I mean - cannibalism?? Yikes!

 

[Ntran1986]

First off, how are rats escaping? I've worked in animal research for 2 years and our rats don't escape!

Anyway, that's not the reason I'm replying.

I have two ideas for you. First, have you discussed with anyone your sensitivity to the animal research? We had a student in our lab who wasn't comfortable with animal work, so they found other things for her to do. In addition, there may be other researchers in the same department you may be able to work with. I'd have an open and honest conversation with your supervisor if I were you.

Second, you may find that it becomes easier with time and exposure, and a different attitude. Some of the work bothers me a little, but I can remove myself from the situation when I have a job to do (like necropsy days!), and remember that I'm doing the work for a greater good.

It does help that my lab is very conscientious. The PI is a pretty sensitive person, as is the post-doc who serves as my supervisor. Our work may be more laid-back than yours. I mean - cannibalism?? Yikes!

The rats don't so much escape, but more like jump out of the apparatuses we're running them in. so then we have to chase them down. That is a good idea about sitting down with my PI to see if there are other opportunities to do other things. and yes the cannibalism was pretty traumatizing haha it was a nice thing to find at 7:00 A.M. on a Sunday 😉

 

[sunshinevet]

The rats don't so much escape, but more like jump out of the apparatuses we're running them in. so then we have to chase them down. That is a good idea about sitting down with my PI to see if there are other opportunities to do other things. and yes the cannibalism was pretty traumatizing haha it was a nice thing to find at 7:00 A.M. on a Sunday 😉

The sad fact is that cannibalism happens in the animal world all the time - I've seen multiple cases of it over my years in practice, mainly with newborn young and the mothers. If you look on it as an "animal world" thing it doesn't seem so bad - remember, their world runs on different rules to ours 😉

To be honest, I think the most important thing you need to look for in research is a subject you are passionate about. Is research something you're actually really interested in taking further, or is it another check in the pre-med box? If its something you're really passionate about, go find a project that you are equally passionate about. You will be more motivated to learn and contribute if that is the case. If you're not that into research in general, and your project in particular, it WILL show whenever you talk about it, compared to people who are really into it. And this may reflect negatively on you. There are dozens of other things you could be doing with your time that would contribute equally to your app. (Unless your aiming for one of the big research unis...)

I would not ditch your lab just because there is no publication on the horizon. If you can get a good LOR from your PI, detailing how much time, work and passion you put into your work, and how you contributed intellectually to the team, it should be fine. I co-ordinate a fair amount of research at my uni, and tbh, if I thought you weren't into the topic, into research in general, or were just in it to try and get your name on a paper, i would show you the door pretty quick smart. Good, meaningful research is about so much more than names on papers so pre-meds can check a box. And if you can bring this point home in your interview, I think it will show a deeper (and honestly, more ethical) view on research. (I listen to all these premeds on here doing research and getting publications, and I wonder if half of them are actually saying anything as opposed to publishing for the sake of publishing... and I have read way to many articles that have been the latter!😛)

If you're having problems with the ethics of the project, I would talk to the PI and go through the project with him. They might have points you haven't considered, or evidence you haven't seen to validate the treatment of the rats. They might even just wax philosophical about it with you, and I personally think that would earn you brownie points - it shows your thinking about what you're doing, and engaging with the work. If you feel that your ethical differences are irreconcilable, I would suggest asking your PI to recommend you to a different lab/project.

(P.S. I am extremely jealous you get to be part of research at harvard! I am at a relatively small uni in Australia, and I have to fight tooth and nail to get every project of mine approved, and even then I am responsible for finding a lot of my own funding! So jealous!!!)

 

[Ntran1986]

The sad fact is that cannibalism happens in the animal world all the time - I've seen multiple cases of it over my years in practice, mainly with newborn young and the mothers. If you look on it as an "animal world" thing it doesn't seem so bad - remember, their world runs on different rules to ours 😉

To be honest, I think the most important thing you need to look for in research is a subject you are passionate about. Is research something you're actually really interested in taking further, or is it another check in the pre-med box? If its something you're really passionate about, go find a project that you are equally passionate about. You will be more motivated to learn and contribute if that is the case. If you're not that into research in general, and your project in particular, it WILL show whenever you talk about it, compared to people who are really into it. And this may reflect negatively on you. There are dozens of other things you could be doing with your time that would contribute equally to your app. (Unless your aiming for one of the big research unis...)

I would not ditch your lab just because there is no publication on the horizon. If you can get a good LOR from your PI, detailing how much time, work and passion you put into your work, and how you contributed intellectually to the team, it should be fine. I co-ordinate a fair amount of research at my uni, and tbh, if I thought you weren't into the topic, into research in general, or were just in it to try and get your name on a paper, i would show you the door pretty quick smart. Good, meaningful research is about so much more than names on papers so pre-meds can check a box. And if you can bring this point home in your interview, I think it will show a deeper (and honestly, more ethical) view on research. (I listen to all these premeds on here doing research and getting publications, and I wonder if half of them are actually saying anything as opposed to publishing for the sake of publishing... and I have read way to many articles that have been the latter!😛)

If you're having problems with the ethics of the project, I would talk to the PI and go through the project with him. They might have points you haven't considered, or evidence you haven't seen to validate the treatment of the rats. They might even just wax philosophical about it with you, and I personally think that would earn you brownie points - it shows your thinking about what you're doing, and engaging with the work. If you feel that your ethical differences are irreconcilable, I would suggest asking your PI to recommend you to a different lab/project.

(P.S. I am extremely jealous you get to be part of research at harvard! I am at a relatively small uni in Australia, and I have to fight tooth and nail to get every project of mine approved, and even then I am responsible for finding a lot of my own funding! So jealous!!!)

Oh my thank you so much for chiming in! What you bring up is exactly what I'm worried about also. The last thing I want to happen is to show a lack of enthusiasm and passion for the research. The theory and thought of the research is interesting to me. The problem is I don't get to take part in much of it. So DON'T be jealous haha. All of the interesting lab work and data analysis is done in the main laboratories. My day consist of working ALONE in a room with the rats. I just take the rats and put them in the experimental apparatuses until they're done. remove and record the data. A lot of the job is maintenance of the facility. I think that there are so many excellent research opportunities around Boston that maybe the Harvard name shouldn't hold me into the position. Thanks again to everyone who has lent me their thoughts. I love SDN. I hope to return the favor one day!