"Read between the lines" Part 2

[Abram Hoffer]

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Please help "read between the lines"... Here's a summary of a letter from a PD:

• Faculty and residents impressed.
• Will make fine resident.
• "I hope that you are planning on ranking Program X number 1 on your rank list."
• Talks about program strengths.
• Reiterates hope you are strongly considering ranking Program X as you make your list.
• Call with questions.

 

[bigdan]

To me, it's "whatever"...

I feel nice that they bothered to attach my email, but firmly believe that 3 to 4 times the number of people that they need to fill the class got the same email.

For emails like this, I send a "Thank you for your kind words; the residents that leave your program are very well trained", and nothing more. And I DO NOT change my rank list, which lists where I want to be, from most desired to least.

dc

 

[Abram Hoffer]

To me, it's "whatever"...

I feel nice that they bothered to attach my email, but firmly believe that 3 to 4 times the number of people that they need to fill the class got the same email.

For emails like this, I send a "Thank you for your kind words; the residents that leave your program are very well trained", and nothing more. And I DO NOT change my rank list, which lists where I want to be, from most desired to least.

dc

So, as the rules would apply, a program may tell a candidate that it is ranking them number 1, correct?

For a program to say, "I hope you are planning to rank us number 1", what does this mean/imply/suggest/reveal (if anything)?

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

So, as the rules would apply, a program may tell a candidate that it is ranking them number 1, correct?

For a program to say, "I hope you are planning to rank us number 1", what does this mean/imply/suggest/reveal (if anything)?

Z-E-R-O.

This is just a way of saying "We hope you liked our program" although it somewhat of a haughty way (in my humble opinion). But just like any student would like to be ranked #1 at every program they went to, I'm sure this program would be like to be ranked #1 by everyone who interviews there.

 

[Abram Hoffer]

Any other opinions, perhaps in favor with positivity? Just trying to get a wide survey of opinions.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Any other opinions, perhaps in favor with positivity? Just trying to get a wide survey of opinions.

Sounds like a form letter; not anything to get excited about

 

[Winged Scapula]

Why wouldn't they hope you rank them number 1?

They could rank you number 150 and you wouldn't match there.

The program has nothing to lose by writing that. Treat it like a form letter and rank programs in the order you LIKE THEM, nothing more.

 

[Doowai]

I like the dating analogy, and so like everyone else has said : make your rank list by who you like, not who likes you.

Was there anything really personal in the letter? Anything that made it clear they wrote it just to you? I got a similar email, but it had a couple of paragraphs that were obviously written just to me (mention of unique strengths and weaknesses, a practical joke gift I sent someone in the program, etc) and would not be a part of a form letter - as well as a commebnt about something they would like me to do that would not be a part of a letter to anyone else. However a few paragrapsh of the email I recieved could easily be part of a form letter.

So was there anything in the email that made it clear it was sent to YOU and only YOU? I don't see anything in the outline you provided that seems anything other than form letter.

But like dating, make your selection on who you want to be with - you might be pleasantly surprised even.

 

[Law2Doc]

Why wouldn't they hope you rank them number 1?

They could rank you number 150 and you wouldn't match there.

The program has nothing to lose by writing that. Treat it like a form letter and rank programs in the order you LIKE THEM, nothing more.

Agreed. A program would love EVERYBODY to rank them #1. That way they will be able to get the first X people on their rank order list, and be able to brag to their competitor PDs that they didn't have to go very deep on their list. It costs them nothing, they are promising nothing. There is nothing in your (OP) email to suggest they are going to rank you #1 or #150. They just want you to have listed them highly, should they have to get deep enough in their list to wherever you are. Which may be high or low. You can't tell from this correspondence. Unless you know of others who got different correspondence from the same program, in which case you could try to figure out if people situated in different parts of the list got different, and more/less vague emails.

But I wouldn't waste my time. Just rank the program where you would have if you hadn't gotten this email.

 

[Abram Hoffer]

Thanks to all for your detailed thoughts. I've certified, now got this letter from the program of my wife's hometown. Seems to have swayed/convinced my wife and our families. My wife is savvy, knows the games these programs play, still thinks this one means more. Have this program #2 prior to most recent letter. Just trying to examine all angles before considering changing things.

My fear: I switch 1 and 2, miss out on 1 because of being gamed by 2, then match at # 3 or lower.

 

[Samoa]

The only difference it would make is that you'd match at 2 instead of 1, if both ranked you highly enough to match. If you match at your #3, you wouldn't have matched at program 1 no matter where you ranked it.

 

[Law2Doc]

The only difference it would make is that you'd match at 2 instead of 1, if both ranked you highly enough to match. If you match at your #3, you wouldn't have matched at program 1 no matter where you ranked it.

Agreed. It's not going to make a difference unless you are getting into your #1 and #2 for sure. In which case the order you list them is the order you get them. If you think your current #2 is a shoo in, but still like #1 better, you keep #1 as #1, and you will still get #2 if they ranked you highly but #1 didn't. As Samoa suggests, if you allow yourself to get "gamed" by #2 and end up with #3, you weren't getting #1 even if you listed it #1. Thinking otherwise represents a misunderstanding of the algorithm. You get your highest ranking that also ranked you highly. It works in YOUR favor, not the programs. So practically speaking, if #1 wanted you and #2 didn't, you will get #1 even if you list it #2. And if you end up with #3, it has nothing to do with the order you ranked the prior two -- #1 simply didn't rank you as high as you thought.

 

[Abram Hoffer]

Agreed. It's not going to make a difference unless you are getting into your #1 and #2 for sure. In which case the order you list them is the order you get them. If you think your current #2 is a shoo in, but still like #1 better, you keep #1 as #1, and you will still get #2 if they ranked you highly but #1 didn't. As Samoa suggests, if you allow yourself to get "gamed" by #2 and end up with #3, you weren't getting #1 even if you listed it #1. Thinking otherwise represents a misunderstanding of the algorithm. You get your highest ranking that also ranked you highly. It works in YOUR favor, not the programs. So practically speaking, if #1 wanted you and #2 didn't, you will get #1 even if you list it #2. And if you end up with #3, it has nothing to do with the order you ranked the prior two -- #1 simply didn't rank you as high as you thought.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Yours is how I thought the algorithm was designed, but for some reason, my mind doesn't want to believe it works that way. I know it does. If #1 isn't high enough, I get the next down on the list -- wherever my highest and their highest match up. Thanks again for grounding me in the reality of the math. 🙂

 

[John Deere Gree]

Nothing like everyone playing the match game...

If you rank where you want to be based on form letters that you (and many others) received you might end up regretting it later.

 

[yaah]

I agree with most others - I wouldn't let this letter sway your decisionmaking at all. If you were going to rank them #1 anyway, rank them #1. If you were going to rank them #3 because you liked two programs better, rank them #3.

 

[dragonfly99]

Rank them #2 if you like then 2nd best.
Send them a polite reply but one that doesn't commit you to ranking them #1.
Sounds like a form letter.
They are trying to make sure they fill.
Sure,they hope you'll rank them #1. They hope you ALL will rank them #1.
Don't let them "game" you.
YOU work the match...don't let it work you.

 

[Abram Hoffer]

Rank them #2 if you like then 2nd best.
Send them a polite reply but one that doesn't commit you to ranking them #1.
Sounds like a form letter.
They are trying to make sure they fill.
Sure,they hope you'll rank them #1. They hope you ALL will rank them #1.
Don't let them "game" you.
YOU work the match...don't let it work you.

Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful responses. I spoke with the residency coordinator, and she confirmed that it is a form letter that gets sent to all who have ranked. The funny thing is... this particular program supposedly received 800 apps for 3 spots and interviewed 48! It's a moderately competitive field.

 

[Mundy]

What about a letter from a PD that indicates you would definitely match there if you ranked them first?

 

[John Deere Gree]

What about a letter from a PD that indicates you would definitely match there if you ranked them first?

That'd be a great letter to have IF AND ONLY IF you ranked them number 1 before you received the letter.

If you are swayed by the letter to rank them number one, then it could be a mistake.

Just follow your heart. That's what I do.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

What about a letter from a PD that indicates you would definitely match there if you ranked them first?

They have no obligation to tell the truth. Just rank them like you would based on how much YOU PREFERRED THEM.

 

[tetris]

...a practical joke gift I sent someone in the program...

I just have to ask: what did you send and how did they react???