Reading Harrisons and Robbins for the boards?

[Ramoray]

I was wondering if it would be beneficial for step one to read harrisons and robbins together for step 1. My school during 2nd year has a systamatic organ clinical medicine structure where we take blocks of cardiology, neurology, gi, etc and i am reading robbins and harrisons for each organ system, will this help me for step 1, atleast in terms of the path questions? thanks

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[Idiopathic]

I dont believe so. It will be invaluable for your clinical rotations, but for the boards, these texts are way overkill.

 

[scootad.]

yer out of yer mind if you plan on reading harrisons and robbins either for step 1 or for courses (unless for a presentation or paper)

 

[Ramoray]

yer out of yer mind if you plan on reading harrisons and robbins either for step 1 or for courses (unless for a presentation or paper)

I have learned a done so far, only started GI in school but i have learned so much information and when i take my class tests they seem like a joke after learning those 2 books thoroughly. I also think it will be great for 3rd year and residency, I mean if you dont build a base of information now when would you. its not like youll have time during rotations to read a medicine book. ANyway i was just wondering how beneficial it would be for step 1, thanks!

 

[bof]

It is not going to hurt you for step 1, but there are better ways of spending your time, if you are soley concerned about step 1. i would say mildly beneficial but below average in terms of studying efficiency.

ANyway i was just wondering how beneficial it would be for step 1, thanks!

 

[sacrament]

I have learned a done so far, only started GI in school but i have learned so much information and when i take my class tests they seem like a joke after learning those 2 books thoroughly. I also think it will be great for 3rd year and residency, I mean if you dont build a base of information now when would you. its not like youll have time during rotations to read a medicine book. ANyway i was just wondering how beneficial it would be for step 1, thanks!

You're planning on learning Robbins and Harrisons "thoroughly?" This is a remarkable display of hubris.

Reading gi-normous textbooks as prep for Step 1 is an extremely ill-conceived idea... possibly the most inefficient use of study time that I can imagine, apart from reading Cosmo and answering all of the sex quizzes.

 

[Ramoray]

I think it is very possible, with my ciriculum set up in clinical blocks, I have all my time to spend reading the two and i read each big robbins chapter 3 times then follow that by reading each corresponding harrisons organ blocks 2 times and i feel that i remember everything from the robbins and the jist and important concepts from harrisons. Of course i do not read the critrical care and other blocks in harrisons that do not correspond to robbins and i do not read the procedures in depth. ie how to perform a colonoscopy in depth but yes i think i tis very possible. I also never thought it was efficient for step, i am simply doing it to learn the body and medicine thoroughly and becasue i enjoy it but i was just wondering if it might come in handy for step, i realize you must do other thing smore efficiently for step.

 

[Idiopathic]

i feel that i remember everything from the robbins and the jist and important concepts from harrisons.

If only...

 

[Long Dong]

Wow that's crazy, I hate text books period. Haven't had to open one up this year at all, and hope not too cause I just read way to slow.

 

[tigershark]

It would definitely be beneficial to do that throughout second year, in theory we should all be doing that anyway. It wouldn't be wise to do that as your final preparation for the test though, but if you had taken the time to learn robbins and harrisons your review for step 1 would be easier.

 

[sacrament]

but if you had taken the time to learn robbins and harrisons

Is everybody taking crazy pills? Am I the only one who thinks that "learning" Robbins and Harrisons would make for a nice, if lofty, by-the-end-of-residency project rather than something you do in your free time during the first two years of med school? I mean, if you can learn Robbins and Harrisons then why stop there? You should probably learn Goodman & Gilman's too, and maybe the Oxford English Dictionary just for kicks.

 

[Ramoray]

Dude I dont see how you are in med school if you dont think it is possible to learn, which does not mean memorize every word of, Robbins in a year time period. its 1500 pages. If you cant learn that in a year maybe you have alot of other things going on but as for me my second year is stricly path and medicine systems which is all robbins. Learning one book isnt much in a year and harrisons, half of the things are the same as robbins and another third is useless to the student so that leaves about a 1/3 of harrisons to learn in addition to robbins. I dont see why that is so unrealistic.

 

[carrigallen]

Ram, don't pay attention to Sac and his crazy Oregonian whims. 😉

I think that reading Robbins is a cool idea for Step 1, since it is probably better organized than your class syllabus. I am reading Rubins, which is not as quite as detailed but it is made by our school so it helps a bit for class.

I'm not sure about reading Harrisons though, that seems awfully monumental. For a more concise reading, you could try just looking up the major diseases in CMDT and read about the treatments?

I agree though, that board-review books are good for just that - reviewing. Reading lists doesn't help much if you want to actively learn it, imho.

 

[Santiago]

I was wondering if it would be beneficial for step one to read harrisons and robbins together for step 1. My school during 2nd year has a systamatic organ clinical medicine structure where we take blocks of cardiology, neurology, gi, etc and i am reading robbins and harrisons for each organ system, will this help me for step 1, atleast in terms of the path questions? thanks

hey,

They are both great books.

But for boards, they are overkill, period.

So if you have time and you want to really go thru them , by all means study them.

Otoh, if you want great scores, you can very well have them without going thru these two texts. In fact, I might add, you will probably score less by going thru these texts.

Hope I was clear enough..

hth

 

[Doc Ivy]

I agree with Santiago, Sacrament and others. Reading Robbins and Harrisons from cover to cover has got to be THE most inefficient use of precious study time ever!

Everyone I've ever talked to said to score well on Step 1, just try to do well in your M2 year, learn it right the first time and then use review books to keep sharp. If class notes are all you need to understand the disease so be it. If you need more clarification, THEN go through it in Robbins to flush out your understanding-- but not the whole chapter just the blurb on XYZ that you're covering in lecture. That way you'll be learning things in the context which it's being taught. Doing review questions will tell you where you need to be more thorough. In the end you'll have read a lot, but it won't seem so torturous.

 

[kcrd]

I actually think that reading Robbins as a companion to your lecture notes is a great idea. I tried to read as much Robbins as I could during path. It is a very well written book with great pictures, and it will help you on the boards if you know it well. One to two months before you take your boards, though, you need to switch to review books. Harrison's is overkill and beyond the scope of Step 1.

 

[jamie]

That's very ambitious and noble of you, but for the boards, do NOT underestimate the importance of practice questions, practice questions, practice questions.

 

[Ramoray]

Thanks for everyones replies, I will definetly make sure i spend enough time on boards related things as that is my main goal. Thanks again! But on an off note, i dont know how many of you have sat down with harrisons and read some of it, but it is not much different than robbins only it deals with treatments and presentation of patients alot more, so really it is just likie reviewing robbins with a diff spin on it, kind of like learning it from two sources. It really is not a complex book, it is no harder to read then robbins. Just a thought. thanks again!

 

[Santiago]

That's very ambitious and noble of you, but for the boards, do NOT underestimate the importance of practice questions, practice questions, practice questions.

Yes, I second that.

Very very imp to practice as many questions as you can.

 

[azzarah]

Ramory, how much time do you spend each week reading robbins and harrison's? I am having a hard time with second year and am thinking about trying out your technique. Let me know! Thanks!

 

[Ramoray]

hey azz finally someone who doesnt think i am wasting my days away! I finished my first organ block before xmas, GI, and i was pleased at my prep, i found the test to be really easy after thoroughly learning it and i agree it was way overprepped but it made the test seem easy. I have already converted 10 or so people in my class to reading and not going to lectures. I am not sure if you are a lecture person, personally i do not go to any lectures so i do have all my time free to read. But for me usually takes a day to read a robbins chapter and usually 2 or 3 chapters are on each exam. I go through each chapter 3 or so times until i grasp it quite well which takes about a week and a half. Then i read the corresponding section in harrisons. For GI it was 140 pages or so which takes 2 or 3 days to read. So i do that for each organ and it really works well despite what people say and you do it in half the time that people go to class.
I think the people who say harrisons is overkill have not read the book because if you read robbins and then harrisons youll notice harrisons is a complete review of robbins with even less detail about path and harrisons integrates patient presentation, symptoms and treatment( which is a perfect review of pharm for me as it lists each drug and used and sx etc.) It also reviews the physiology of the organ and relevent histo. For me it is perfect board review through the semester and you nail your tests. There is also a harrisons question book with all clinical scenarios which are exactly how my questions were presented and they are NOToverly complex or anythingl ike people say(other than there are a few thing obviously that are above our level and you easily see those and just skip them).
SO basically for each organ system test we cover two organs. ie. Cardio and heme and get a month for each block say. So if i were you just try this once and i promise you that you rock your test. Read each robbins chapter 2 or 3 times till you grasp it. Do the robbins q book coressponding to the chapters. Then read the harrisons corres chapter and finish it off with the q book which reemphasizes the complete picture and clinical pres. of everything . And you will do that in less time than your class mates that go to class. Try it and i promise youll rock despite what everyone says here, it worked great. Good luck!

 

[Tedebear]

Ramoray, I agee with you. However, I love Cecil's much better. When I looked at both books in October, I realized that Cecil's is much more student friendly and not as academic with esoteric words. Ask any 3rd or 4th year here and they will tell you about Cecil's.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...77/sr=2-2/ref=pd_ka_b_2_2/002-6749850-0651237

 

[Firion451]

The key to the whole thing is that you don't go to lecture AND have the discipline to actually read hardcore every day. I almost always attended lecture and only used big textbooks to fill in my knowledge gaps or find "extra" stuff for when I wrote scribe notes. Most people I know who never went to lecture pissed away most of the day sleeping and doing errands.

 

[chunkeroo]

I would NEVER recommend that approach. Focus on a good tight board review book... and start studying for Step 1 in between MS1 and MS2 years.

 

[Ramoray]

The key to the whole thing is that you don't go to lecture AND have the discipline to actually read hardcore every day. I almost always attended lecture and only used big textbooks to fill in my knowledge gaps or find "extra" stuff for when I wrote scribe notes. Most people I know who never went to lecture pissed away most of the day sleeping and doing errands.

Yes of course it depneds on whether or not you can sit and study by yourself. And also of course any medicine book you prefer, whether it be cecils or cecils essentials. Personally i think essentials is too vague on every issue that it makes it hard to understand and remember the diseases but if you like a more vague approach essentials would be fine. I have not taken step1 yet but despite what people say i do not buy that having a extremely solid base in path, medicine, pharm and physio can possilby hurt you. the bigger the knowledge base the better problem sovling you can do and apparently from what i have read on the boards step 1 is all about problem solving and less buzzword recall. So yes some poeple are book people and some lecture. By no means if your a lecture person will this work and it is much better for a lecture person to attend and learn from lectures. just my .02 worsk for some not all

 

[scootad.]

thats all fine and dandy but i think it's important to incorporate review books into your routine to make sure that when you do sit down and review for step 1 most of that crap will be familiar to you and in a format that you've seen before. otherwise, you'll just have to start over square 1 and that would be a waste IMO.

nobody cares how you crush years 1 and 2 in med school.

 

[azzarah]

thats all fine and dandy but i think it's important to incorporate review books into your routine to make sure that when you do sit down and review for step 1 most of that crap will be familiar to you and in a format that you've seen before. otherwise, you'll just have to start over square 1 and that would be a waste IMO.

nobody cares how you crush years 1 and 2 in med school.

Thanks Ramory. I think my problem with med school is that I learn all the big picture stuff and forget all the tiny research BS details which they like to test us on here. 🙂 For this upcoming exam it might be too late, but I will try your technique for the next test. I am a lecture person, so I think I will go to class and do this after class. I already study all day off my ****y lecture notes. I might as well be reading robbins or harrisons or something nicely written. 🙂 Once again, thank you for sharing your technique with me in such great detail. You're awesome 🙂
Scootad, you are also right about that. I have been using review books to review right before the exams and that helps too.

 

[azzarah]

BTW Ramory, It would make sense to me that with that kinda preparation you should ace step 1 come test time. 🙂 Good luck!

 

[Doc Ivy]

Ramoray,
Now that you've clarified your technique I have to say: hats off to you. You probably will do really well on the boards, and on the wards. 👍 I'm a lecture person--I abhor textbooks, but Robbins in small doses is doable, I like to read Cecil's Essentials on occasion, and I ALWAYS do Robbins questions before exams to focus my studying. However I still maintain that if I did what you do and spent all my time with Robbins and Harrisons I would fail our tests. We are tested on minutiae straight from lecture notes and ppt slides, so it makes sense to focus on what is emphasized in lecture. I like your stategy though, seems like a good way to learn medicine in an integrated way, I guess it just depends on your school, and how your exams are set up, I'll just have to trust that our curriculum will cover it all in due time, and that if I keep doing well on our exams and study hard with review books it will come together for Step 1. 🙂

 

[Ramoray]

Thanks azz, yes if your a lecture person just keep up what ur doing and maybe just try read the smaller robbins on your time out of lecture as obviously reading all that other stuff and going to lecture all day is near impossible and exhausiting! I am sure you are doing wonderfully and everyone i think struggles with 2nd yera as it is hard, i have spent every free second studying and i still find it a ridiculously hard year.
Doc ivy, i totally agree, its not like i get honors on everything or even close as the tests are teh same its alot based on silly minutia from lecture that if you are to honor you have to memorize. I just think its too painful to do that adn would rather just learn something as i am horrilbe at memorizing things so i take lower grades in order to feel like i learned something but if i could learn from lecture and memorize i would totally do what you do. I think its such a shame how profs test on ridiculous minutia, i think all curriculum should be standardized across country or something so we all recieve equal prep for 3rd year and boards. I feel like im always guessing on whats important and what isnt, and of course the review boooks help tell you whats important but even within review books they differ on what to focus on. I find it frustrating. Good luck azz and ivy i am sure you guys are doign great!

 

[Ramoray]

Hey azz, by the way how is the embryo review going, have you began yet? you spurred me on in summer to suck it up and review embryo for the boards so i bought a hy book which i stare at and am haunted by that the time is quickly approaching where i will have to bust it open and read it. Ill save that maybe for the last day before boards or something, yuk i hate embryo!

 

[Chandelier sign]

hey ramoray, that's a very fascinating approach you have going on studying for you're classes... i'm a robbins fan too, but i thought harrison's is for medicine residents, not us med students...
i think you're definitely learning your medicine but i wonder how you've been doing in your classes, if you don't go to class at all, and do only robbins and harrisons, so you don't even read lecture notes or transcripts? or do your books provide you with enough overlap that you don't need to study lecture notes/powerpoints? just out of curiosity, do you still manage to honor alot of your classes with this approach, because at my school its all about the random minutia either mentioned in classes or buried somewhere in the lecture notes...

 

[Ramoray]

After reading robbins and harrisons there really isnt anything left taht a prof could have in a packet other than a few minor points so i dont even read any lecture notes or even look at lectures other than which organ we are on and when the test is. Of course there is minuta but nothing that isnt in the books. I mean these are books that are complete and have been around for decades compared to profs who have learned themselves from these books, its not like most profs know something the books dont go into. Usually i am much overprepared. I have honored path/medicine so far which is what these books are for. I did not and have a hard time honoring micro and pharm as the minutia is out of control and i read katzung for pharm and i agree there was just too much minutia to honor. But people do not trust it but read the books and then do a quick read of the lecture notes at the end, youll notice you fly through the lecture notes, they seem like childs play after you tackle robbins and harrisons. I have been scoring 2sds above the class so far on path/medicine so its workign for me. I always recomend giving it a try. especially if your a robbins fan, youll find harrisons "completes" the understanding but mostly is a review of robbins with a few extra helpful points. Really its no hugely in depth book only for residnets. I would def try it!

 

[scootad.]

this is exactly whats wrong with medical school. 😉 what field you wanna go into ramster?

 

[Ramoray]

this is exactly whats wrong with medical school. 😉 what field you wanna go into ramster?

Hey scoot, hmm i dont get this? what do you mean this is wrong, what is wrong with medicine? by the way i agreed with your post 100 percent that review books are a must, i guess this post turned into a question i had regarding studying during the year, i was just curiuos if it would be of use come board time, by no means did i say study this way for boards, i have all the reveiw books too and that is what ill be using come board time and i look at them during teh year as well. As for as going into a field i am interested in neurosurgery butthere is lots of cool stuff so im not set yet.

 

[omarsaleh66]

Hey scoot, hmm i dont get this? what do you mean this is wrong, what is wrong with medicine? by the way i agreed with your post 100 percent that review books are a must, i guess this post turned into a question i had regarding studying during the year, i was just curiuos if it would be of use come board time, by no means did i say study this way for boards, i have all the reveiw books too and that is what ill be using come board time and i look at them during teh year as well. As for as going into a field i am interested in neurosurgery butthere is lots of cool stuff so im not set yet.

Dude I have a feeling u are gonna rock the boards. After reading what u do, Im defineity motivated to step it up starting january.

later
Omar

 

[Firion451]

this is exactly whats wrong with medical school.

I completely agree with this, especially as a staunch lecture-goer during first and second year. Although I went and learned a lot, there were only a precious few professors who taught so well that you really felt like you had a handle on the material just from being there. If I had a dollar for every person I know who did better in med school after stopping going to lecture, I'd be a millionaire 😀 (exaggeration, of course).

This problem will never be solved as long as faculty are required to both keep up active research and long hours of clinical duty AND teach lectures. Teaching preclinical med students is probably the equivalent of KP to academic physicians, so it takes a very altruistic doctor who loves teaching to have good lectures. Perhaps this is why the LCME is now requiring that med schools reduce overall lecture time, increase PBL and preceptorship time, decrease the overall number of exams to discourage cramming of minutiae, and revamp curricula so they are not exam-driven.

Realize that one can become very smart by reading books but that medicine is an "art". Many doctors know 10,000 minutiae but have absolutely zero people skills. Furthermore, while you need to know lots of detail for step 1, step 2CK has virtually none of that crap, but rather are long and tough clinical puzzles that test your overall acumen rather than rote memorization, which can hurt "books only" kind of people. So try to acheive a balance if you can.

 

[Firion451]

Crap, I misspelled "achieve". 😱

 

[Ramoray]

Hey firion i totally agree but i do think also it depneds on the person,i mean if i sat through even a good lecture i probably would learn zilch just cause i am a horrendous audio lecture learner as well as slower, since i need to take in a concept and undetsand it slower than a lecture pace. Also someone may read a book and get nothign from it cause they dont like reading and find it boring whereas i soak up alot more. I think ideallly you want to go to lectures and have the time to read all the books you want but obviously you barely have the time to do one of the two. I almost wich med school first 2 years was broken into 3 but then again i dont but it may be better. As far as the art of med and figuring out cases and scnearios like a puzzle, i dont think it matters whether your a lecture person or a book person , rather i think it depends on if your someone who stricly memorizes words and regurgitates or if you spend time learning, understanding and connecting the information to the bigger picture and you spend time learning how each piece fits in the puzzle. I think you can attain that info by books or lecture as long as you take the time to really understand things is the key.
Ohmar, from your posts you seem to always be on top of htings, im sure youll crush step 1 and me in the process. The sad thing is i Must read each chapter like 3 times to grasp it since im a slower learner, i am sur emost students can give it a read once or maximum twice and have a firm grasp. I always seem to spend more time learning than most, pisses me off! plenty of time to prep for step 1, we have 5 or 6 months to be hardcore i think we can do it and will!