Reading people. Probing brains.

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

kimzboyy

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
24
Reaction score
0
My goal with my self is to eliminate infantile tendencies in thoughts and egocentrism. My career goal is to study the brain and explore theoretically how to fine tune function from a neurocircuitry perspective. Pharmacology is awesome in itself, but thats just the tip of the iceberg in your field. I have seen my quest for medical education stall for a long time. I no longer think of my plans as a matter of what I want in life, but what I am supposed to do. If it is in my capacity to be successful in medical school, I would allow myself to become an underachiever should I turn it down. Underachieving has reproductive disadvantages. Help me figure this out from a biological, evolutionary perspective.

Last item that I have an issue with: When I was in elementary school my math was gifted, but my reading was not gifted. I blame it on not having a father and being raised bilingual. Based on GRE and SAT scores my IQ is around 129. I'm no genius 🙁 ...Will my cognition improve through studying medicine?
 
Last edited:
I think many of us would agree that studying medicine has cost us IQ points, if we measured ourselves by such things.

MD
According to the dictionary: Medical Doctor
According to our patients: Minor Deity
According to us: Me Dunno.
 
I think many of us would agree that studying medicine has cost us IQ points, if we measured ourselves by such things.

MD
According to the dictionary: Medical Doctor
According to our patients: Minor Deity
According to us: Me Dunno.

Haha! Did you make that up? That's awesome!!! :laugh:
 
Data shows that further education does raise IQ. Something I've noticed in medical school is it's on the order of having volumes of data mashed into your brain. Other things tend to get smushed out. I used to be able to answer at least half of the questions on Jeopardy. After medschool it was much less than that. I don't know if anyone's done a pre-medschool IQ and post-medschool IQ test because I could actually see someone's IQ going down. Not because the person is actually less smart, but because medical education is hyper-specialized while the IQ is designed to test general intelligence. Kinda like someone becoming a savant.

An IQ of 129 is not genius, but it's nothing to be ashamed about.
 
Last edited:
Thank you for helping me figure this out. I'm having a self-centered day today.
 
I think we're missing many things here, including that the IQ as a concept is outdated and a biased measure.

Very true. IQ is supposed to measure general intelligence. How does one do that? No matter what type of IQ test one makes, anyone will be able to find problems with it.

IMHO a typical medical doctor program will if anything lower general intelligence, while increasing brain power as a whole because it hyper-specializes thinking into clinical specific scenarios, but I don't know if anyone's done a study on this.
 
Here we go again...🙄
(Yes I was the pre-med in question, at the tender age of 29... The last time this came up, it was alleged that I sat behind Jesus in medical school...)

Dude, sorry - didn't mean to touch a nerve!

edit: hell, I'm less than 10 years younger than you, and I still get proofed at bars and buying beer!
 
Very true. IQ is supposed to measure general intelligence. How does one do that? No matter what type of IQ test one makes, anyone will be able to find problems with it.


I would say that most measures (WIAS-IV, WISC-IV, WJ-III, Kaufman for little ones) do measure general intelligence...but what you gain in a measure of general intelligence you lose in anatomical specificity, so thats why there are lots of other tests and other ways of evaluating more specific abilities. Its not so much that IQ is outdated, but that the concept ought to be reconciled with a modern understanding of neuroanatomy, the functional abilities they produce, and (in kids) their developmental trajectories.

IQ predicts somewhere between 40-60% of the variance in academic success in life, but yet is not related to some of the most important functional abilities in life, like theory of mind. So, take it for what its worth.

To the OP, Elkhonon Goldberg (neuropsychologist at NYU) has a book out called the Wisdom Paradox: How your mind can grow stronger as your brain grows older, which has lots of good insight into what I think you are asking.
 
Underachieving has reproductive disadvantages. Help me figure this out from a biological, evolutionary perspective.
QUOTE]

Really? So folks who drop out of high school and have 27 kids with 10 different women and no meaningful employment are at the advantage? And here I am, late 20's, third year doctoral student, no kids...cant wrap my mind around this...

Sorry for the snarky tone, but think about it. Theres more to life than the selfish gene.
 
I think many of us would agree that studying medicine has cost us IQ points, if we measured ourselves by such things.

MD
According to the dictionary: Medical Doctor
According to our patients: Minor Deity
According to us: Me Dunno.

According to nurses: My Doormat?
According to malpractice lawyers: Mucho Dinero?
 
I don't have an issue with pharamcotherapy for the general population of mentally ill individuals. However, I have an upsetting relationship with the doctor who has been in charge of treating my "symptoms" to date. We clash and bump heads. We don't see eye to eye. I have not felt free to speak about my mental state in months. See, he had me hospitalized for psychosis this winter. I stabilized somewhat through short-stay. I had to come to terms with why I had let myself fall in love. I became acutely paranoid in January and February. My last paranoid phase was April-May 2010. He claims to be treating unipolar depression with escitalopram. He says social anxiety and ocd does not just get better. It needs over a year of treatment! Am I that lost and incapable of reasoning for myself that I would listen to this joker for another minute. I went psychotic for being at a loss for accepting rejection. It just did not click. I spent everything I had in the time I was falling for my unrequited love. My thoughts were racing with my love obsession, with my musings on how to make it all a reality. I stayed on the escitalopram and had a continuation of the racing thoughts except that now I could not break free from the absolute worst experiences of recent memory. Every action was an attempt to escape the prison of memory and feelings that overpowered my ability to enjoy the pleasure of my senses.

I feel so superficially assessed by this doctor. During my break from formal education I saw four other shrinks who I was not afraid of interacting with as equals. In short-stay I was diagnosed with bipolar. In the summer, I was told that I may have bipolar or cannabis-induced psychosis. I have been CLEAN since that time. I had endogenous mania in November, diagnosed by two shrinks, and still my shrink was too proud to back off the gay-ass OCD diagnosis. How is my need for symmetry??? wtf?!

What is it with this man and swallowing his pride to give me some mutual respect. By the way, he and I got off on a bad foot. I faked the symptoms of ADHD to get adderall. I pulled it off for three months before he stopped me. I think that is the best thing he did for me. Getting me to stop speed was where his doctor power did some good for me. The rest of it has been the same story.

I believe there is a way to stumble upon my future without planning it out, without stress, and without fear. Above all I have to stay free. I can't go to Grenada and let my lonesome Dad pay the system $300,000 for his son's happiness. I will find the kind of happiness I always wanted from an MD degree, but I will do it on my own and give my community, my city, something more highly specialized than anything that has come before. I hope to become a grad student in 2012 - studying cognition. I hope to make money enough to get by and to love life until I can't love no more.

Edit: I have also been thinking about who I am as a simple biological being. Who am I genetically? My Dad is estranged. His house, to me, looks haunted with the ghosts of his parents and childhood. He has had bibliomania for the last 2-3 years. His house is filled completely with antiques and books. He has always been allof, detached, absorbed in memory of his family rather than engaging them frequently. He had functional alcoholism as an attorney for a while. He takes alprenolol now and drinks once a week. My mom used to be a painter and accordion player until she went to med school. I am telling this because the whole genetics theory of mental illness has got me confused. When do you know that its time for your patient to have a new doctor?
 
Last edited:
kimzboyy--

this is NOT an appropriate forum for the discussion of your individual diagnostic dilemmas nor treatment regimen.

Further posts of this nature are likely to result in your removal from the board.
 
Top