Really think hard about going to UCSF School of Dentistry

[UCSF DDS]

Now I'm just putting this out there to let people know that the school has been dealing with serious budget cuts and it shows in the pre-clinic. Now if it is the only school you get into then go for it. However some of my class mates have questioned their choice of attending here and it is still only the first quarter. This is due to the reduced staff in the pre-clinical labs and the overall feeling of disorganization of the school and the ever increasing cost. For example we have the international students in our pre-clinical lab helping us out. This is a great supplement but not a replacement for trained faculty. During your interviews ask what the ratio of faculty to students is.
The pass/fail system is great and the bio-medical-science curriculum is very intense but prepares you to be doctors. However, I feel that I actually need to watch youtube after some clinical courses/exercises because there are not enough faculty to give you instruction. I just feel that people getting the chance to come hear should be talking to first year students. These budget cuts will affect your learning experience and will not change anytime soon🙁

Also don't get me started on GOLD why teach us things that nobody uses? While gold is now over $1100 ounce this has to be re-thought. Not practical and not a good use of my tuition dollars teaching me procedures I will never use or need.


Thanks for my rant.

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[doc3232]

You don't seem like a dental student. I think you are a pre-dental student trying to reduce the competition.

Nice try though. 😉

 

[Svart Aske]

You don't seem like a dental student. I think you are a pre-dental student trying to reduce the competition.

Nice try though. 😉

Or you could be denying yourself a valid piece of advice on account of your cynicism.

I'd take this post with a grain of salt. If I cared enough I might even ask the OP to provide some type of evidence of enrollment at UCSF. Still, if he/she really is a UCSF student the complaint should not be dismissed. Personally, this is unlikely to affect my decision. Every school has unsatisfied students.

 

[doc3232]

Or you could be denying yourself a valid piece of advice on account of your cynicism.

I'd take this post with a grain of salt. If I cared enough I might even ask the OP to provide some type of evidence of enrollment at UCSF. Still, if he/she really is a UCSF student the complaint should not be dismissed. Personally, this is unlikely to affect my decision. Every school has unsatisfied students.

These threads come up about once every month or so. Ignore them. 🙂

 

[Svart Aske]

Fair enough.

 

[cowboy17]

.

 

[FutureDent020]

Im sorry you havent had a great experience. But in case you weren't aware, gold crowns are sold all the time. You will use them I promise.

Yes, although gold is more expensive, people still use it for its durability, and some for aesthetics.

 

[FutureDent020]

These threads come up about once every month or so. Ignore them. 🙂

Haha, that's what I thought when I first read this. I've just never heard one bad thing about UCSF

 

[Homing Swan]

I want to learn to do gold restorations! My wife needs a crown right now and I am trying to convince her to get Gold. Gold crowns have the smallest marginal gap, and cause the least amount of wear on opposing teeth. They have the downfall of cost and color, but they are the best for your mouth.

 

[THINKOFMYFUTURE]

Haha, that's what I thought when I first read this. I've just never heard one bad thing about UCSF

You have now.

 

[The Anhedonia]

well, maybe there is some truth to what this person is saying (Regardless of whether he or she is for realsies)

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-ucfees19-2009nov19,0,6237361.story?track=rss

 

[mld]

It is definately true that UCLA and UCSF are raising their tuitions and I heard that from a few faculties at UCLA. They are both great schools in terms of their location and reputation, but both schools (especially UCLA) have a really rigorous curriculum. For example, at UCLA they make you memorize a lot of facts and details that you do not really need and will soon forget anyways.

By the way, it seems that UCLA only gave out one batch of interviews a few weeks ago. Does anyone know when they send out the second batch?

 

[mueladeljuicio]

It is definately true that UCLA and UCSF are raising their tuitions and I heard that from a few faculties at UCLA. They are both great schools in terms of their location and reputation, but both schools (especially UCLA) have a really rigorous curriculum. For example, at UCLA they make you memorize a lot of facts and details that you do not really need and will soon forget anyways.

By the way, it seems that UCLA only gave out one batch of interviews a few weeks ago. Does anyone know when they send out the second batch?

oh mld, you love hijacking these posts. i dont anyones answered your 10 questions. i guess i'll try to answer this question so that you wont ask another 50 or so times....

to me what ucla seems to do is be extremely selective in who they will invite for an interview, such that before dec 1, they will invite maybe 8 * 12 = 96 applicants, and of those select enough to fill up most of their class. I'm not sure how much the interview goes in deciding the selection, but they definitely weed out some people. I say this b/c come dec 1, all those they interviewed will receive a phone call that day saying wehter they've been accepted, rejected or waitlisted.

B/c UCLA is quick about making decisions and they dont drag things on forever, I think the majority of post dec (or more realistically pos jan) interview are given 1 by 1 until they fill their class. I think this is good strategy for them since they know they have a yield rate.

i hope this answers your question about UCLA. i have to say while some of it is true, most of waht i said is conjecture, but on a forum like this, i dont think you should expect to hear the 100% truth since, as far as i know, none of us are on the admissions committee....

 

[UCSF DDS]

I understand where everybody is coming from as I was a pre-dental student last year. Every school does have some students that think the glory of there school has worn off. I also realize that I was told some similar information about UCSF while I was interviewing last year and still choose to come here due to location and cost(pre-increase). But it has gotten worse

Fact:
Today in preclinical lab we had 4 instructors for 87 students. We had a student drop from the program during week 4. We also had 3 international dental students helping out. The international students really are helpful because they don't have the power to sign off on any work. This works against trying to get a waxing or prep signed off because of the other ratios. This ratio is way above other dental schools. During my interviews it was one instructor per row and that was about 13-14 students.
I should have been more clear on the gold in my last post. I heard they are going to be teaching us some gold leaf technique and even the faculty that have practices haven't done one in ages. Granted I don't think I'll be breaking out the gold bag till third qtr.

I just feel better by putting this out here. I'm not going to follow this post much as I have finals coming up but really guys what I'm saying is very true and you should ask some tough questions of our school during your interview. Better yet ask them after your interview day is over. Our sim lab is almost brand new. But 1st years are going to be giving up there drawers to second years soon at least that's the word from above.
Good Luck come Dec1st

 

[yuppers]

A few points:
The inflation scare is what is driving that price of gold up. Gold prices will come back down somewhat after we get out of this economic hole. So gold crowns may have a come back.
Increasing tuition sucks for the wallet, but it solves some of those faculty problems.
Lastly, I bet you are just like most D1 and D2 students that absolutely loath DS at some point (understandably though as it is a lot of work and stress).

 

[UCSF DDS]

A few points:
The inflation scare is what is driving that price of gold up. Gold prices will come back down somewhat after we get out of this economic hole. So gold crowns may have a come back.
Increasing tuition sucks for the wallet, but it solves some of those faculty problems.
Lastly, I bet you are just like most D1 and D2 students that absolutely loath DS at some point (understandably though as it is a lot of work and stress).

I don't loathe dental school I actually find it fun but question what I'm learning. The need to follow up and teach ourselves in pre-clinical is my concern. We had two main faculty take vacation at the same time and thus placed us in an even bigger bind. The fact that the instructors are in such a hurry makes me think they are going to lower their standards. But yeah year 1 is so far a lot of work but I hear half-way through year 2 it gets better. It must all I hear about is how much free time they have. Again I'm not sure that's a good thing for how much they are paying.

 

[Aceofspades]

I understand where everybody is coming from as I was a pre-dental student last year. Every school does have some students that think the glory of there school has worn off. I also realize that I was told some similar information about UCSF while I was interviewing last year and still choose to come here due to location and cost(pre-increase). But it has gotten worse

Fact:
Today in preclinical lab we had 4 instructors for 87 students. We had a student drop from the program during week 4. We also had 3 international dental students helping out. The international students really are helpful because they don't have the power to sign off on any work. This works against trying to get a waxing or prep signed off because of the other ratios. This ratio is way above other dental schools. During my interviews it was one instructor per row and that was about 13-14 students.
I should have been more clear on the gold in my last post. I heard they are going to be teaching us some gold leaf technique and even the faculty that have practices haven't done one in ages. Granted I don't think I'll be breaking out the gold bag till third qtr.

I just feel better by putting this out here. I'm not going to follow this post much as I have finals coming up but really guys what I'm saying is very true and you should ask some tough questions of our school during your interview. Better yet ask them after your interview day is over. Our sim lab is almost brand new. But 1st years are going to be giving up there drawers to second years soon at least that's the word from above.
Good Luck come Dec1st

You shouldn't be so dismissive about what the OP is saying. Read up about the huge budget cuts in California. During this recession everyone was hit hard, but California was by far hit the hardest. Highest unemployment, biggest budget cuts, etc.

Also, make sure you ask for student to faculty ratio, and don't accept some BS answer. Ask the students how many faculty were available for their class LAST WEEK for the ENTIRE DURATION of the class. Have them state the faculty present by name if you must. Don't let the school feed you some BS ratio calculated using fuzzy math.

 

[yuppers]

I don't loathe dental school I actually find it fun but question what I'm learning. The need to follow up and teach ourselves in pre-clinical is my concern. We had two main faculty take vacation at the same time and thus placed us in an even bigger bind. The fact that the instructors are in such a hurry makes me think they are going to lower their standards. But yeah year 1 is so far a lot of work but I hear half-way through year 2 it gets better. It must all I hear about is how much free time they have. Again I'm not sure that's a good thing for how much they are paying.

It sounds like you are just looking at the glass half empty.

 

[doc3232]

Where is UCSF2012 when you need him?

 

[dentist001]

I am an international dentist accepted at both UOP and Ucsf. And i am finding it very hard to choose between the two. I keep hearing lots of good stuff about Uop but seldom about UCSF. I just need a cheaper school. Please let me know what you think. I land up changing my mind everyday and i am confused. Research or Pg is not my priority right now.

 

[doc3232]

I am an international dentist accepted at both UOP and Ucsf. And i am finding it very hard to choose between the two. I keep hearing lots of good stuff about Uop but seldom about UCSF. I just need a cheaper school. Please let me know what you think. I land up changing my mind everyday and i am confused. Research or Pg is not my priority right now.

Go somewhere else to get more info. This thread is NOT reliable.

Search the name: "ucsf" and "uop" only in titles

You will get 15 pages, at least 50 threads will give great info.

 

[UCSF DDS]

I can assure you what I have said is very reliable. Do you go to my school? The other day during our Histo lecture our professor asked our class how things were going in the clinic because he heard about the current problems. He told us he got a txt from a third year student who he mentors that 3 of the 6 floor instructors were not there that day for prosthodontics. He said the school/deans can't print money to get more faculty but they could do something and we need to make it known to the deans that there is a problem. You should also ask if you will be "expected" to teach first years in the clinic. I think this is funny because you guys pay a ton of money as a IDP and get to teach us for free

 

[UCSF2012]

Let me say this. I was this same student throughout most of last year. There were many things about our curriculum that I didn't quite like, and I found faults in everything. I had more complaints than UCSF DDS did, in fact. I thought some of the professors were harsh, erratic, etc. Now that I've finished first year, I no longer have those same complaints. Those teachers I very much hated first year, I now admire because I realized how good they are at what they do. In fact, if I were to teach this course, I would leave most of it the way it is. From a teaching standpoint, there are many aspects of the curriculum that's just pure brilliance. But you have to see the principle behind what they do in order to appreciate it. The process of getting good at dentistry is difficult, but once you get there, it's magic.

To UCSF DDS, I understand what you're going through. I went through the same agony, and I can tell you it'll get worse second quarter. You'll begin crown preps/temps, and our professors will drill into you the impossible. It will be complete frustration, but once you conquer it, it'll be worthwhile. And it'll get even worse third quarter.... 🙂

To everyone else reading this, nothing he said is factually incorrect. Yet, I question the extent to which it truly affects our learning. I guess I'll address some of the main points raised:

Gold is the standard. No one uses it anymore, but it's still the absolute best restorative material we have. That's one reason why we should learn it. The other reasons are that there are lots of things to learn in the process of making gold restorations, all the intermediate steps required in making this gold crown. Each step will unveil itself slowly throughout the first year, but it's absolutely critical in understanding why we do what we do. And if you're concerned about the cost of gold, you can resell it off once you're done with it and recoupe most the cost. Many of my classmates have done that. Again, gold is the standard, and if a certain school isn't teaching gold, they really should rethink that.

It was asserted that some professors aren't that good. And in all honesty, there's no way to counter that. Some professors will be outstanding, while some will be misery. There's no way around that, and it applies to all schools in the US of A. If you want help, I've found the BRS, Kaplan, and Rapid Review series very helpful. They parallel our curriculum for the most part. Once you've seen some of these lectures, you'll understand there's no way to teach some of these topics well.

We all have noticed reduced staff in the pre-clinic. I havn't thought much about it because I've managed to get everything I needed done. But that's partly because us D2's already know what we're doing and don't quite need the same guidance as the D1's. I guess it could be a real bummer for the D1's. I'd have to think about that some more, but I'll say this in the mean time. Not everything you do require the attention of professors to grade. We have some miracle workers in our school, and they can tell you everything you did well and not so well. I havn't made myself available to the D1's first quarter because my wax-ups suck. I'll say that straight up. But I'm acing everything else, and my intention was to make myself more available 2nd quarter on. That remains my intention. I can also identify a great many D2's who really know their stuff, and we'll help guide everyone along.

The budget cut affects us all, but you can still do well here. We've gone to great lengths to recruit you guys.

 

[xhamburgersamx]

Most schools have TA's, whether international students or upper classmen help the D1 and D2's in pre-clinic. It's not surprisingly that you aren't taught directly by a dentist. It's scary however that no faculty is on duty to sign off or supervise students on the clinic floor. It's not only a waste to the students time but patients time because nothing gets done! WTH

 

[Cofo]

oh yeah...totally. in fact, everyone who gets an acceptance to ANY dental school ...just decline all of your acceptances because all of the schools aren't any good.....

...riiiiiiiiight

 

[UCSF2012]

Most schools have TA's, whether international students or upper classmen help the D1 and D2's in pre-clinic. It's not surprisingly that you aren't taught directly by a dentist. It's scary however that no faculty is on duty to sign off or supervise students on the clinic floor. It's not only a waste to the students time but patients time because nothing gets done! WTH

The faculty are usually in the clinic with the D3's and D4's. They'll still evaluate your work and sign things off. You just have to find them.

 

[nze82]

You don't seem like a dental student. I think you are a pre-dental student trying to reduce the competition.

Nice try though. 😉

I have no comment on whether or not he/she is really a dental student. But I've also heard stories about UCSF struggling with the budget cut from some of their students.
Now I'm not trying to reduce competition, because I've already been denied by that school
I'm just spreading the word!

 

[doc3232]

What about UCLA?
How will they be affected? Exact same way?

 

[playa2652]

I currently am a D1 student at UCSF and I will have to say that the budget cuts are playing a dent into our education, but it's not really hurting us that badly. I had the same views about the instructors for PRDS for awhile, but if you think about it, maybe its just us D1s trying to get use to the dental school environment. I come from a private undergraduate institution and it definitely is hard adjusting to the public school quarter system. I was definitely bitter throughout most of the quarter, but I think the one sole thing keeping me sane right now is that my classmates are amazing people. They provide us with useful updates and info as well as notes to help us get thru these midterms and finals. The person who dropped out of our class decided that she wanted to pursue medicine instead, and she was one of our brightest! This school is a great place to help you learn, it gives students many opportunities to make your time in dental school more rewarding. I will say this though, don't expect to be babied here, most of what you do is andragogy (meaning adult learning). The faculty expect you to be responsible, but by now you should have a grasp of what that means. For future prospective students, you will be surrounded by the best and brightest students, which makes our school special. It will be an honor to see some of you guys next year.