Reapplication advice?

[kwyjibo]

It's getting late into the cycle and with no acceptances, it looks like I may have to reapply next year.

Short summary of stats:
-CA resident
-sGPA 3.98, overall 3.97
-MCAT: 9v, 13b, 14p, Q
-EC: hospital volunteer, shadowing, international volunteering, research...see the mdapps link in my profile for more details.

-applied a bit late with AMCAS verified in July and secondaries completed around August/September.

-Applied to 24 schools (see mdapps link for the entire list)
-3 interviews total: ucsd-waitlist, usc-waitlist, ucla-reject

What I've done this year:
So far I've been volunteering at a soup kitchen and plan to volunteer by helping elementary school kids with homework (maybe this could count as a leadership activity?). I also got a pharmacy tech certificate with a license pending so I can hopefully get a job at a pharmacy somewhere to add to my clinical experience.

Plan for next year:
-Cut out all the ultra-competitive schools from my list and apply instead to more mid-tier schools.

So that's what I have planned so far. Any additional advice/tips for next year's cycle would be greatly appreciated.

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[gman33]

You have very good stats, make sure there is nothing bad in your application, like an unknown bad LOR. If you don't get in this year, call the schools you interviewed at and get some feedback.

As for school choices, it's getting so competitive right now, there is no sure thing for any candidate, even one with very good numbers.
Look at some more private schools next year that have a good record of taking out of state applicants. Check out some Philly schools, like Jeff and Temple. They both have tons of kids from CA.

For this year, you could try writing letters to the schools where you interviewed. Also, you could send updates to the schools where you didn't get an interview. I'm surprised that you didn't even get an interview at a school like Drexel. Your stats are way above their mean. They do get like 10,000+ apps a year, so maybe they just never got to you.

 

[dragonfly99]

Your MCAT score is very good except for the verbal which is just OK, but that by itself shouldn't hurt you except at places like UCSF. I wouldn't retake the test.

Your GPA is great. Don't risk it by taking any classes unless there's just some upper level bio class you are very interested in or something.

It seems to me you should have gotten more interviews, though I'm not going to go read your app. and look at all 24 you applied to. You need to get with your premed advisor(s) and go over your application with him/her...try to ascertain if your LOR's are not strong or something. Sometimes if they are not very personal or one inadvertently says something that isn't flattering, that can be enough to hurt you. Do you have at least one LOR from a physician?

I am wondering a lot about your amount of clinical volunteer work. I mean volunteer hours in a hospital or clinic. Schools look at this and sometimes count the number of hours...they won't count tutoring kids or working at a soup kitchen the same way. You need to show commitment to health care specifically...I know a lot of hospitals don't let the volunteers do anything anyway, but you need to do the hours anyway.

If you don't get in this year, call up every school where you interviewed and get their reasons for why they didn't accept you.

Reapply to 30+ schools next year, including all your state schools, plus out of state privates that accept people from California.

 

[kwyjibo]

From the international clinic volunteering I have about 80 hours over 2 weeks. From the hospital volunteering I have around 200 hours over 6 months. I am thinking I should add more clinical hours for next cycle. Would working as a pharmacy tech/clerk count toward clinical hours?

 

[fizzle]

It's getting late into the cycle and with no acceptances, it looks like I may have to reapply next year.

Short summary of stats:
-CA resident
-sGPA 3.98, overall 3.97
-MCAT: 9v, 13b, 14p, Q
-EC: hospital volunteer, shadowing, international volunteering, research...see the mdapps link in my profile for more details.

-applied a bit late with AMCAS verified in July and secondaries completed around August/September.

-Applied to 24 schools (see mdapps link for the entire list)
-3 interviews total: ucsd-waitlist, usc-waitlist, ucla-reject

What I've done this year:
So far I've been volunteering at a soup kitchen and plan to volunteer by helping elementary school kids with homework (maybe this could count as a leadership activity?). I also got a pharmacy tech certificate with a license pending so I can hopefully get a job at a pharmacy somewhere to add to my clinical experience.

Plan for next year:
-Cut out all the ultra-competitive schools from my list and apply instead to more mid-tier schools.

So that's what I have planned so far. Any additional advice/tips for next year's cycle would be greatly appreciated.

From your MDapps: It was most likely either a subjective part of your application (the personal statement, essays, or the LORs) or the ECs (I'm suspecting the subjective parts more, though, since it's not like you don't have any).

Sending in secondaries in August/September isn't really THAT late, so it's not a great explanation for your performance this cycle. Your numbers are also higher than quite a few of the schools you haven't heard back from, so I doubt that's it's mainly from that either.

Did you have a compelling life story as to why you want to go into medicine, or did you just describe your activities and explain how they made you qualified to go into medicine? Med schools really like stories because that's what shows them who you really are and what motivates you in what you do with your life. Without it, you'll be just a list of impressive activities with little personality.

 

[kwyjibo]

A physician that I know is a clinical faculty member at USC. Would asking him to write/call on my behalf be helpful?

 

[Food]

A physician that I know is a clinical faculty member at USC. Would asking him to write/call on my behalf be helpful?

I think it always is. But that's just me. I'm in a similar situation, you can check my MDapps. Good MCAT, a lower GPA though, and a later application. I'm on hold at 1 place, and won't know about an acceptance until a month from now. I'm desperate. If I knew a faculty member, I'd have him write something. Maybe not the best advice, but I'd doit.

 

[dragonfly99]

"A physician that I know is a clinical faculty member at USC. Would asking him to write/call on my behalf be helpful?"

Absolutely YES. You should definitely do this if you think there is any way possible that this person will do this for you. This (pulling strings, etc.) is kind of the way the world works. Also pick out your favorite one of the med schools where you are wait listed and write a nice, polite letter to them telling them they are your first choice, you'd really like to get in, etc. Might try USC if you don't have a strong preference between the two schools and are planning to get this doc to phone them on your behalf.

I am still concerned about your application, though. With applying to 24 schools and your very high GPA, good MCAT, and the fact that you have some volunteer hours in a medical setting I just don't get why you couldn't get more interviews. Sometimes it matters where you go to college, too, but even if it's nowhere that is well known, a 3.9+ should get you in the door. I think you need to have your essay/personal statement looked at by multiple people, if you don't get in this year. Also I really am worried that your LOR's are not serving you well. Is there any way you can get your premed advisor(s) to look at you, tell you which is the weakest one, then throw that one out and get a new one (for next, year, I mean)?

 

[gman33]

A physician that I know is a clinical faculty member at USC. Would asking him to write/call on my behalf be helpful?

If this person has any pull, maybe they can get you off the waitlist.
It can't hurt to try.

 

[kwyjibo]

"A physician that I know is a clinical faculty member at USC. Would asking him to write/call on my behalf be helpful?"

Also I really am worried that your LOR's are not serving you well. Is there any way you can get your premed advisor(s) to look at you, tell you which is the weakest one, then throw that one out and get a new one (for next, year, I mean)?

Possibly...My school (UC Berkeley) doesn't have a premed committee so I'd probably have to ask someone at the Letter Service.

 

[dragonfly99]

UC Berkeley doesn't have a health professions advisor or health professions advising office? That is surprising.
Even if there is not, I'll bet there are multiple biology and chemistry faculty members who have experience with looking at medical school applications from students from Berkeley and could give you helpful advice about any deficiencies (as well as strong points) they see in your application. If you don't ask for help, you aren't going to get it. So go ask.

 

[MediumDef]

Even though Berkeley doesn't have a single pre-med advisor per se they do have a career counseling office part of which is dedicated to the pre med crowd. I would definitely set up an appointment with them and ask them to go over your application with you. You presumably paid the state of California a decent amount of money for your education no point in not getting your money's worth.

Also I agree with previous posters who mentioned contacting schools you were rejected from and asking about any deficiencies, many(although not all so don't take it personally if they say no) are willing to give you a general sense of what was lacking in your application. This could be particularly useful in your case where there's not a clear cut numbers issue and your EC's aren't so underwhelming as to sink your whole app.

Good luck.

 

[nlax30]

I agree with the others. At least on paper your stats are pretty good. Surprised you didn't receive more interviews.

- Check your LORs as others have mentioned, if possible. Make sure they were strong.
- DEFINITELY call some of the schools you applied to and get their take on your app and what you can do to improve it, or if there was just something that seemed "off" to them
- Recheck your personal statement, have some others read it for you
- Can't hurt to talk to this doc you know, especially if he has connections. Sometimes you have to tread carefully in those type of situations. But ask him if you can sit down with him and go over your application with you and ask for any advice he may have, etc.... If everything is good then maybe he'll offer up some sort of help in a letter or him making some calls for you.

 

[kwyjibo]

So I made a roadtrip to Nor-Cal to talk to a career counselor about my application.
Due to the confidentiality agreement, she made it crystal clear that she was unable to give me any information whatsoever about the strength of my LORs. I'm still waiting for feedback from schools and hope that they can give me at least general assessment in that aspect.

 

[socal44]

I'm sure it sounds like a broken record, but I'm coming up on my 26th birthday and need to know whether or not I should re-apply this coming June 09?? Any advice will help b/c I'm on my own on this one in terms of family and friends.

Here's the situation:
-UC Berkeley Psych BA '05
-Worked abroad in Turkey and China in Public Health 8 months after graduation
-Worked at UCLA for 8 months in research (probably should have stayed but I was offered an amazing opportunity that I had to take to be sure medicine was for me)
-Marketing for entrepreneurial fashion company for 2 yrs, while finishing post-bac at SMC
-currently volunteering at hospital and shadowing during the day
-currently tutor in evenings and weekends, and teach mcat prep
MCAT: 11 PS, 9 V, 10 BS Q
Science GPA: 3.7
Non-science GPA: 3.8
Applied to 30 schools in August 08
Was offered interviews at Temple and Duke. Waitlisted at both.

Do I re-apply this next round? Or should I wait and take a year off to really work in the field? Do I apply for my MPH first? The thing is I have to be able to support myself during my time off. Help?

 

[socal44]

I'm sure it sounds like a broken record, but I'm coming up on my 26th birthday and need to know whether or not I should re-apply this coming June 09?? Any advice will help b/c I'm on my own on this one in terms of family and friends.

Here's the situation:
-UC Berkeley Psych BA '05
-Worked abroad in Turkey and China in Public Health 8 months after graduation
-Worked at UCLA for 8 months in research (probably should have stayed but I was offered an amazing opportunity that I had to take to be sure medicine was for me)
-Marketing for entrepreneurial fashion company for 2 yrs, while finishing post-bac at SMC
-currently volunteering at hospital and shadowing during the day
-currently tutor in evenings and weekends, and teach mcat prep
MCAT: 11 PS, 9 V, 10 BS Q
Science GPA: 3.7
Non-science GPA: 3.8
Applied to 30 schools in August 08
Was offered interviews at Temple and Duke. Waitlisted at both.

Do I re-apply this next round? Or should I wait and take a year off to really work in the field? Do I apply for my MPH first? The thing is I have to be able to support myself during my time off. Help?

 

[dragonfly99]

socal,
keep hammering away.
I would just reapply now.
Reapply very early, like in June. Turn everything in very early. Make sure you emphasize your clinical work and volunteer work in your application.

I am concerned about why you didn't get >2 interviews with 30 applications. It may have been that you applied too late, but I also worry your LOR's or personal statement were not strong.

I would apply to even more schools, and check for ones where your MCAT score will be competitive. Also reapply to the 2 schools that interviewed you this year.

 

[socal44]

Thanks Dragonfly. I have a few other questions for you (any other takers too) based on this new info:

I spoke with some of the schools who did not offer interviews to me, and it appears as if there is not a clear-cut issue. I was concerned about my 30Q MCAT and lack of RECENT research experience. But as it turns out, one school wanted to see volunteering and shadowing even though I'd worked in a clinical research environment. Another school said maybe more depth. I had my essays checked out by friends and career center at UC Berkeley. They were as in depth as I could get in the letter count given. I think most schools were thrown off by the fact that I applied right after having come out of a marketing position. They did not see it as a means to an end...a way to pay the bills and finish post-bac with flexible schedule in addition to exploring business. I split my schools between top tier and middle of the rung this past round. Based on this, do you think I should retake the MCAT?

Game Plan A:
Re-apply June 1 with new volunteer and shadowing experience. Submit to schools that match my MCAT profile, even if I have a strong GPA.
Study for July MCAT and re-take at that point if I don't hear about waitlists from this year. Then in August, add any schools based on new MCAT score?

Game Plan B:
Re-apply June 1 with new volunteer and shadowing experience. Not bother with re-studying and stress/anxiety from MCAT.

Game Plan C:
Skip this cycle. Study and retake MCAT when ready. Start working full time again in clinical position in an area I'm interested in. Pay off debt from the cost of this round, save some money, and hedge my bets in June 2010.

What do you think? Suddenly, finances have grasped my attention because I'm concerned about finding school funding given current economic status. Not to mention, dishing out the amount of applying to 30 schools again.

 

[dragonfly99]

I pick option A. If you want to make an omelet, you have to break some eggs (i.e. spend the money on applications). If you get in, you will likely pay for this all by Stafford loans, which is the student loans most all med students take out. Waiting longer won't really decrease the cost of going, since the tuition inflates so much every year. For that reason, I wouldn't pick option C.
I would not wait on a new MCAT score to reapply. Getting the applications in really early is very important.

I would rewrite/rework the applications so that somehow your marketing job is de-emphasized, and all the clinical experiences are emphasized. It sounds like they want you working in a clinical area, and perhaps to see you stick with one thing for a longer time. See if you can do that (i.e. keep volunteering or working at the same hospital for > 1 year). I still worry about your LOR's...not that they are bad necessarily, but maybe they don't say a lot that is personal about you, or you don't have one from a physician?

 

[gman33]

So here's the problem, it doesn't sound like you have done anything to improve your app since last time. The MCAT is okay, but it's probably not helping anything. That's the only thing you could substantially improve before next cycle. DON'T retake it unless you put in study time and are confident you can score 33+ (as demonstrated on multiple practice tests).

MPH will do virtually nothing to help your chances. I'm not saying it's bad to get one, just that it won't help with med school admissions.

How is your patient interaction time? I know you said you worked in clinical research, but were you interacting with pts? Anything less than 200 hours, is on the low side.

Even if you don't do anything to improve your app, I'd still apply again this cycle. Just pick your schools well. If interested, throw in some DO schools. They will still get you to the same place. I'd do that before any MPH or other postbacc type work in your case.

 

[socal44]

My LOR's are pretty strong from what I can tell...I know the people individually and they even mentioned some of the material they included in their letters. I'll have 3 extra and updated letters this next round from my two current employers and the doctor that I'm shadowing.

I think you're right about the finances too. I will have to shell out this cost again if I really want to be an MD. I just hate having to spend more money on credit in this economic climate, but I want to be an MD and this is what it takes.

I did apply to two DO schools and was offered interviews but withdrew beforehand because I don't want to limit myself in terms of the specific residencies I will be competitive for. From speaking with some current med school students, residents, and doctors, DO's are quite competitive for residencies in family medicine and general surgery, but for some unfair reason, it appears as if they are not considered as much for more specified residencies. And frankly, as a California resident, I'd like to get into a UC and save some money on tuition, rather than paying for a private school tuition to get a DO and potentially be limited.

The only thing that appears weak on my application is the MCAT. In fact, my essays are what got me the interview at Duke. I have over 200 hours of clinical work with patients. I have experience abroad working in public health. I have tutoring, teaching, volunteering, etc. I had some reach schools but most of the schools I applied to fit my stats. I've been out of school for almost 5 years!!! I don't know what happened this last round...it baffles and upsets me every time. Because everyone says you need to have improved your application from last round, but there's not much to improve other than an MCAT score.

I think it's time to focus on the positive and get ready for a second round with more shadowing and volunteer experience. I'll also continue to study for the MCAT to potentially retake even after submitting my app this June. I'll restructure the essays to emphasize the skills gained in marketing that apply to becoming a doctor, and focus on my clinical work. Plan A it is!!!

Thanks for your help Dragonfly and gMan. I need the support because none of my friends or family are involved in medicine.

 

[gman33]

If CA schools are your first choice, you would be best served by boosting that MCAT. I think you need more like 33-34 to be competitive. I don't know specifics about this cycle, but the mean has been going up every year. After this cycle is over, call some schools to get feedback about your app.

Some people will advise against retaking the MCAT, but I think that's the easiest way to boost your chances. Just make sure you put in the time to prep if you are going to take it.

I'm a student at Temple, so I'll be pulling for you to get off that waitlist. There are tons of CA students here. So you'll fit right in.

 

[dragonfly99]

socal,
if you have multiple LOR's, need to pick and choose carefully to submit the ones that will have the most impact at particular schools. Letters from PhD science professors and physicians have the most impact, IMHO. If you have an employer/boss who is one of these, that makes the best letter. Letters from people outside the field of science/medicine are not as helpful.

 

[socal44]

If CA schools are your first choice, you would be best served by boosting that MCAT. I think you need more like 33-34 to be competitive. I don't know specifics about this cycle, but the mean has been going up every year. After this cycle is over, call some schools to get feedback about your app.

Some people will advise against retaking the MCAT, but I think that's the easiest way to boost your chances. Just make sure you put in the time to prep if you are going to take it.

I'm a student at Temple, so I'll be pulling for you to get off that waitlist. There are tons of CA students here. So you'll fit right in.

Yes! I would love to go to Temple. I heard there are still spots in the class. I sent in an LOI, and I'm sending in an additional Letter of Rec. Any other ideas?