Reapply with no big improvements to application or change careers?

[ANewTooth]

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Hey ya'll! So i'm a graduated DS a few years ago and realized that I don't really enjoy general dentistry at all. I've also developed chronic pain in my back and joints that have made working difficult. For the most part I am able to manage the pain but there are days where I feel like I've been hit by a truck and this can take me a few days to recover.
It has gotten to a point where I am considering changing my career.

I ended up applying to a handful of Ortho (4) residencies last year and was able to get interviews but ultimately did not match. I want to try applying again but after being out of school for so long I'm not sure if I can actually do anything to improve my application. I will apply to many more programs this year but will it be frowned upon if programs see that I didn't improve my application much? I was top 10% in DS, have a good GRE score, non-ortho related research experience, leadership experience, and good ECs. What else can I do to improve upon my application? Is it bad to reach out to the programs that I interviewed with last cycle to express my interest and ask what I can do to improve?

If I don't get in what other options do I have for a career thats still (semi-)related to dentistry and not as physically straining? I really don't want to throw away all the time and effort I put into this career just because my body can't handle it anymore..

 

[yappy]

If you do not get in have you considered opportunities to teach at an institution that has an ortho department to get to know faculty? Some schools also have “fellowships” for less competitive applicants. do you have an interest in path, radiology or anesthesia?

In the mean time you should evaluate if you practice with good ergonomics using magnification and illumination. Stretch, eat healthy, exercise, and practice good ergonomics when you’re not at work too. Consider PT if necessary.

 

[periopocket]

Applying to 4 places just isn’t enough.....apply to 20+ places this cycle if your serious and if you got interviews this cycle you’ll get even more, also hone in on your interview skills.

 

[gryffindor]

If you're looking for less intense dentistry, consider other paths like Oral Path, Oral Medicine, Oral Radiology, TMD. Every community could use a really good TMD doctor or two if there is already someone there. Some might tell you to also pursue "dental sleep medicine" which is an option but it wouldn't be my first choice.

Ortho is still physically demanding in that you are putting your fingers in 30 - 100 mouths a day for traditional bracket and wire patients. Also all the standup up and sitting down and talking that goes with 100 people on your schedule. So much talking. Let's say there are 50 patients on the schedule. You have to talk to the 50 patients, you have to talk to the assistants about each of those 50 patients (so 50 more conversations), in the pre-COVID times you also had to talk to about 30 parents of the 50 patients, and then you have to communicate with the front staff for at least 15 questions they have about stuff, sometimes patient related and sometimes not. That's at least 145 different conversations a day. It's rare to make orthodontist money seeing only 10 patients a day, the big money in ortho comes with volume. So think really hard about the physical nature of running around a busy clinic. There have been many digital advances in ortho and the shiny magazines and commercials during the football games want you to think that ortho is all about moving teeth with plastic and braces are just so old fashioned, but I feel brackets and wires are still going to be a large part of what we do for at least 10 - 20 years.

That said, the key to getting into ortho residency is to nail the interview. Your stats sound good, make sure you have orthodontists write your LORs. Unless things have changed, the interview is one giant popularity contest. The residents are scouting the interview picks to find their next set of friends. No one cares that you really want to be a good orthodontist because you like watching teeth move and transforming lives or whatever. I remember saying during interviews that what I liked about ortho is you have 2 - 3 years to figure out the solution unlike GP where you need to decide now why #19 hurts. Some smart ass resident sassed back with "That's not true at all, you have to think on your feet at every visit.'" Well now that I've been an ortho for over a decade, I'd say that resident was wrong. Most ortho residents came straight from dental school so they don't understand what it's like to practice GP and dislike it. They almost carry an air of "I'm above all of that because I never had to slave away as a lowly GP." So you have to really nail the interview and connect with these people on why you are going to be the best co-resident ever.

 

[ANewTooth]

If you do not get in have you considered opportunities to teach at an institution that has an ortho department to get to know faculty? Some schools also have “fellowships” for less competitive applicants. do you have an interest in path, radiology or anesthesia?

In the mean time you should evaluate if you practice with good ergonomics using magnification and illumination. Stretch, eat healthy, exercise, and practice good ergonomics when you’re not at work too. Consider PT if necessary.

Unfortunately I'm not close to any dental schools right now so thats not really possible. I'll look into those other specialties! I've been going to PT but I'm afraid that with the condition I have my years of practicing will be limited.

 

[ANewTooth]

If you're looking for less intense dentistry, consider other paths like Oral Path, Oral Medicine, Oral Radiology, TMD. Every community could use a really good TMD doctor or two if there is already someone there. Some might tell you to also pursue "dental sleep medicine" which is an option but it wouldn't be my first choice.

Ortho is still physically demanding in that you are putting your fingers in 30 - 100 mouths a day for traditional bracket and wire patients. Also all the standup up and sitting down and talking that goes with 100 people on your schedule. So much talking. Let's say there are 50 patients on the schedule. You have to talk to the 50 patients, you have to talk to the assistants about each of those 50 patients (so 50 more conversations), in the pre-COVID times you also had to talk to about 30 parents of the 50 patients, and then you have to communicate with the front staff for at least 15 questions they have about stuff, sometimes patient related and sometimes not. That's at least 145 different conversations a day. It's rare to make orthodontist money seeing only 10 patients a day, the big money in ortho comes with volume. So think really hard about the physical nature of running around a busy clinic. There have been many digital advances in ortho and the shiny magazines and commercials during the football games want you to think that ortho is all about moving teeth with plastic and braces are just so old fashioned, but I feel brackets and wires are still going to be a large part of what we do for at least 10 - 20 years.

That said, the key to getting into ortho residency is to nail the interview. Your stats sound good, make sure you have orthodontists write your LORs. Unless things have changed, the interview is one giant popularity contest. The residents are scouting the interview picks to find their next set of friends. No one cares that you really want to be a good orthodontist because you like watching teeth move and transforming lives or whatever. I remember saying during interviews that what I liked about ortho is you have 2 - 3 years to figure out the solution unlike GP where you need to decide now why #19 hurts. Some smart ass resident sassed back with "That's not true at all, you have to think on your feet at every visit.'" Well now that I've been an ortho for over a decade, I'd say that resident was wrong. Most ortho residents came straight from dental school so they don't understand what it's like to practice GP and dislike it. They almost carry an air of "I'm above all of that because I never had to slave away as a lowly GP." So you have to really nail the interview and connect with these people on why you are going to be the best co-resident ever.

Thanks! I honestly didn't consider the sheer volume of patients that orthodontists see in a day. I get exhausted talking to 20-30 a day so increasing that 5x is pretty crazy to me! I've met orthodontists that are working into their 70s-80s and I'm hoping to get some extra years in the field before I have to "retire". I was never really interested in any other other specialties you mentioned but i'll look into it!

 

[ANewTooth]

Applying to 4 places just isn’t enough.....apply to 20+ places this cycle if your serious and if you got interviews this cycle you’ll get even more, also hone in on your interview skills.

Thanks! Interviewing has always been my weak point and the zoom interviews didn't help... Do you have any pointers on improving interview skills?

 

[allDAT]

If you could practice ortho without limitation given your circumstances, I'd apply to just about every program in the country and hope to land 1 spot. If you are certain that you are on a path towards disability, evaluate your disability policy. If you don't have a disability policy and you're unable to secure a spot in ortho, maybe it is a good idea to explore alternative career choices and that may include sleep medicine or other specialties that have more thinking time than drilling time.

 

[gryffindor]

Thanks! I honestly didn't consider the sheer volume of patients that orthodontists see in a day. I get exhausted talking to 20-30 a day so increasing that 5x is pretty crazy to me! I've met orthodontists that are working into their 70s-80s and I'm hoping to get some extra years in the field before I have to "retire". I was never really interested in any other other specialties you mentioned but i'll look into it!

Feel free to message me for more info. I fought so hard to get into ortho and then I became disabled only 7 years into my career as one. I've adapted but it wasn't easy at all. Also the doctors you meet in their 70s and 80s work because everything is paid off so they're in coast mode and just cashing checks. You usually have to work hard in your 30s, 40s, 50s to get there. Ortho in general is not the money printing career it once was financially either, there is a lot of competition now compared to when those 75 year old doctors graduated. It doesn't help that the older doctors refuse to retire and leave their markets. The high student debt people are graduating with now doesn't paint a good financial outlook either.

 

[mmc12]

IF you have tons of spare money to spend on tuition, consider applying to Georgia School of Orthodontics.... I heard they are still trying to fill their post-match spots

 

[setdoc7]

I think you can improve your app, but it will take some doing. Also, interview skills can be learned, so go learn some.
-attend local ortho meetings/seminars
-attend national meetings
-take some ortho CE, now that everything is ZOOM this should be fairly easy
Good luck.