Specialties to recommend with good prospects?

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SuxDrugs&Rocuronium said:
Train more anesthesia providers. If OMFS would routinely intubate I’d be more for it. Almost all of their complications are airway related.

But let me ask how many preventable deaths/brain injuries is acceptable?

CRNAs vary greatly, some are good and some are terrible. They do something like 600 cases during their training, we do 2500+
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This is a really good question: “how many preventable deaths/brain injuries is acceptable?” What do you think is an acceptable rate?

What is the dental anesthesiology adverse event rate? What is the crna adverse event rate? Or the medical anesthesiology adverse event rate?

I’m really curious of your insight. I don’t have a dog in this fight
 
Allsmiles! said:
I was waiting for that answer…so, you get the exact same training as the MDAs…oh, ok. That’s not what MDAs tell me…they sort of chuckle at you guys. Egos all over the place! You’re a dentist just like me…well, I’m a dentist/MD so obviously I’m better than you. When I’m in the OR, I only see real anesthesiologist. By the way, where is all the research you are talking about as it relates to OMFS? And, I like to see the research on CRNAs too since their training is inferior to yours.
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Sounds legit, since most MDs don’t even know we exist because we are such a small profession. Your argument is actually a bit ridiculous, because the MD anesthesiologists are the biggest opponents of the operator/anesthetist model. And I provided research related to the operator/anesthetist model.


Here it is again in case you missed it.

Here’s another looking at death rates, often by operator/anesthetist

Death Rate of Dental Anaesthesia - PMC

Death was the most important side effect of anaesthesia in dentistry. In this article we reviewed more than 20 studies with adequate data focusing on death associated with dental procedures since 1955 and found 218 deaths out of 71,435,282 patients ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

So a death rate of ~1:300,000 is acceptable to you? With hypoxia being the most common cause of death (i.e. mismanaged airway)? Because frankly I think that number is too high.

And I don’t need research for CRNAs. Who do you think is more qualified, a CRNA who completes 6-800 cases over the span of 1-2 years, or a DA who completes 2500+ cases over 3 years?

You’re projecting pretty hard, sounds like someone is compensating for being looked down on by other MDs.
 
702 said:
This is a really good question: “how many preventable deaths/brain injuries is acceptable?” What do you think is an acceptable rate?

What is the dental anesthesiology adverse event rate? What is the crna adverse event rate? Or the medical anesthesiology adverse event rate?

I’m really curious of your insight. I don’t have a dog in this fight
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None. I don’t think there is an acceptable rate. I think every stride should be taken to get the rate to zero. I know that may not be realistic but I don’t think we should ever have an acceptable number.

It’s hard to look at provider specific rates, because most studies look at dentistry as a whole. And most states don’t have a standardized reporting system that make it easy to look at. That’s one thing DAs are actually trying to change, to have a standardized reporting system to track adverse outcomes related to anesthesia.
 
Big Time Hoosier said:
Especially outside of a hospital setting.

Big Hoss
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SuxDrugs&Rocuronium said:
None. I don’t think there is an acceptable rate. I think every stride should be taken to get the rate to zero. I know that may not be realistic but I don’t think we should ever have an acceptable number.

It’s hard to look at provider specific rates, because most studies look at dentistry as a whole. And most states don’t have a standardized reporting system that make it easy to look at. That’s one thing DAs are actually trying to change, to have a standardized reporting system to track adverse outcomes related to anesthesia.
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Do you think increasing the number of anesthesiologists and reducing the number of crnas in the hospital would decrease the number of adverse events intraop?
 
702 said:
Do you think increasing the number of anesthesiologists and reducing the number of crnas in the hospital would decrease the number of adverse events intraop?
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Possibly. I think one of the biggest problems that needs fixing is the supervision ratios. At our hospital an attending can supervise residents 1:2 (we don’t have CRNAs), but in other places they can supervise 1:7 with CRNAs which is too many in my opinion.
 
SuxDrugs&Rocuronium said:
Possibly. I think one of the biggest problems that needs fixing is the supervision ratios. At our hospital an attending can supervise residents 1:2 (we don’t have CRNAs), but in other places they can supervise 1:7 with CRNAs which is too many in my opinion.
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Would you prefer all Anesthesia be delivered by anesthesiologists to reduce the adverse event rate?
 
702 said:
Would you prefer all Anesthesia be delivered by anesthesiologists to reduce the adverse event rate?
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Not necessarily, but I think the training for anyone administering sedation/anesthesia should be more robust. Specifically in emergency management.
 
SuxDrugs&Rocuronium said:
Sounds legit, since most MDs don’t even know we exist because we are such a small profession. Your argument is actually a bit ridiculous, because the MD anesthesiologists are the biggest opponents of the operator/anesthetist model. And I provided research related to the operator/anesthetist model.


Here it is again in case you missed it.

Here’s another looking at death rates, often by operator/anesthetist

Death Rate of Dental Anaesthesia - PMC

Death was the most important side effect of anaesthesia in dentistry. In this article we reviewed more than 20 studies with adequate data focusing on death associated with dental procedures since 1955 and found 218 deaths out of 71,435,282 patients ...
pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

So a death rate of ~1:300,000 is acceptable to you? With hypoxia being the most common cause of death (i.e. mismanaged airway)? Because frankly I think that number is too high.

And I don’t need research for CRNAs. Who do you think is more qualified, a CRNA who completes 6-800 cases over the span of 1-2 years, or a DA who completes 2500+ cases over 3 years?

You’re projecting pretty hard, sounds like someone is compensating for being looked down on by other MDs.
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Yeah, I don’t have better things to do than make up conversation I have had with MDAs…I mention DAs to them and they chuckle…straight up chuckle of the thought of DAs. You are acting like I don’t know what MDAs stance on this topic is…I’m very familiar with MDAs stance…I have had several robust discussions with MDAs and I appreciate their insight. I think this topic is important, and I have had many discussions with REAL anesthesiologist about it.

Question, is this study specifically related to only OMFS or all dentists? 🧐

You think I’m projecting…compensating for being looked down by other MDs…so that means I’m a MD too…I feel so special and smart now 🤓. I know I’m just a dentist (and so are you) that get to do procedures I really enjoy to include OR cases. You have to have a big ego or lack of self confidence to even entertain what others think…I definitely don’t lack any self esteem…and my ego is so small…I have a hard time finding it. However, you, on the other hand, are telling me that your training is the same as a MDA…control the ego…and no need to belittle others training to help you feel better…It takes away from this important discussion.

You should be more serious when you bring this topic up. Just popping off on this topic, which was not the intent of the thread, with a article trying to lump all of dentistry in the same boat while, at the same time, telling folks like OMFS and CRNAs are not capable of providing safe procedures for their patients is not trying to have a real honest discussion. Try and be less self serving, and stop dismissing the important work people are doing in the health profession for patients like CRNAs. I know you think OMFS and CRNAs are less than, but man, you are more negative about CRNAs than MDAs I spoken too.
 
SuxDrugs&Rocuronium said:
Not necessarily, but I think the training for anyone administering sedation/anesthesia should be more robust. Specifically in emergency management.
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What exactly do you think it’s required for training to be robust
 
Allsmiles! said:
which was not the intent of the thread
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I agree. If we’re going to derail the thread, can we at least rant about how criminal it is that schools like NYU and USC charge $750,000+ for a dental education?

As a side note, administrators from USC and NYU, my offer still stands. This watch mysteriously shows up on my door step and my SDN account just as mysteriously disappears.

IMG_1742.jpeg


Big Hoss
 
JacquesVallee said:
OP is in for a surprise when they check where this thread has gone haha
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Just be a general dentist. Can't imagine going into OMFS now and having anesthesia removed in a few years. Without anesthesia, there is no reason not to be a periodontist as you likely would get more implants without the 4-6 year training path!
 
Allsmiles! said:
Yeah, I don’t have better things to do than make up conversation I have had with MDAs…I mention DAs to them and they chuckle…straight up chuckle of the thought of DAs. You are acting like I don’t know what MDAs stance on this topic is…I’m very familiar with MDAs stance…I have had several robust discussions with MDAs and I appreciate their insight. I think this topic is important, and I have had many discussions with REAL anesthesiologist about it.

Question, is this study specifically related to only OMFS or all dentists? 🧐

You think I’m projecting…compensating for being looked down by other MDs…so that means I’m a MD too…I feel so special and smart now 🤓. I know I’m just a dentist (and so are you) that get to do procedures I really enjoy to include OR cases. You have to have a big ego or lack of self confidence to even entertain what others think…I definitely don’t lack any self esteem…and my ego is so small…I have a hard time finding it. However, you, on the other hand, are telling me that your training is the same as a MDA…control the ego…and no need to belittle others training to help you feel better…It takes away from this important discussion.

You should be more serious when you bring this topic up. Just popping off on this topic, which was not the intent of the thread, with a article trying to lump all of dentistry in the same boat while, at the same time, telling folks like OMFS and CRNAs are not capable of providing safe procedures for their patients is not trying to have a real honest discussion. Try and be less self serving, and stop dismissing the important work people are doing in the health profession for patients like CRNAs. I know you think OMFS and CRNAs are less than, but man, you are more negative about CRNAs than MDAs I spoken too.
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This is coming from the guy trying to belittle DAs. A little hypocritical don’t you think?

I literally stated that it was my opinion to not support operator/anesthetist, and you blew it up with your OMFS ego, so idk why you keep going on. The studies I referenced look at all of dentistry, which is also what I had originally stated. It was you who took offense specifically related to OMFS. All hail the mighty OMFS who have patients die from simple laryngospasms. You haven’t responded to anything other than just calling DAs fake anesthesiologists and saying that I’m belittling other professions while doing the exact same thing. Please do more research into the field of DAs (and not the anecdotal conversation type research). Please tell me what your program your at where MDs have such vast knowledge of DAs?
 
acciDentally said:
Just be a general dentist. Can't imagine going into OMFS now and having anesthesia removed in a few years. Without anesthesia, there is no reason not to be a periodontist as you likely would get more implants without the 4-6 year training path!
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all of your posts on this forum are either ****ting on OMFS and/or rationalizing why youre so happy you became a GP. you need to do some self reflection on why you act like this man. its really pathetic lol.
 
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702 said:
What exactly do you think it’s required for training to be robust
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More cases and more emergency management training. It’s different working in private dental offices where you may be the sole provider when an emergency occurs. In a hospital a team of 20+ people can be the ere to help in a short amount of time, but that luxury doesn’t exist in dental offices. You can’t see every emergency, but the more cases you do the higher probability you have of seeing emergencies and getting experience managing them
 
SuxDrugs&Rocuronium said:
This is coming from the guy trying to belittle DAs. A little hypocritical don’t you think?

I literally stated that it was my opinion to not support operator/anesthetist, and you blew it up with your OMFS ego, so idk why you keep going on. The studies I referenced look at all of dentistry, which is also what I had originally stated. It was you who took offense specifically related to OMFS. All hail the mighty OMFS who have patients die from simple laryngospasms. You haven’t responded to anything other than just calling DAs fake anesthesiologists and saying that I’m belittling other professions while doing the exact same thing. Please do more research into the field of DAs (and not the anecdotal conversation type research). Please tell me what your program your at where MDs have such vast knowledge of DAs?
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Wow! So predictable. I just had to use certain words and bam…it comes out! The ego runs strong in this one 😂.

Wait, I’m sorry, you thought I implied that MDAs think/know about DAs…let me clarify, as we have our awesome discussions about anesthesia the dos, donts, and opinions on OMFS, I’ll try to get their thoughts on DAs, and I have to explain what is a DA and that DAs (based on what I heard…not really…you are the first) get the same training as MDAs…you know what they do…they chuckle…they simply look at me with a puzzled face and chuckle.

Oh, so the study you so proudly presented to all of us to make your case is not specific to OMFS. But, when someone in the thread just merely mentioned the distinction about OMFS safety track record you jump all over them by touting the article you presented as evidence. You did not even have the professionalism/courtesy to acknowledge the article the person submitted to counter your claim. See, be better, be more serious when you are talking down to people who dedicate themselves to helping patients like OMFS and CRNAs. We all have a role to play, and yes, even someone like you do too!

“All hail the mighty OMFS” 🥰 you are making me blush. You said it…not me 😍.
 
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My 3yo nephew recently had dental work done at my friend’s pedo/ortho office. He needed 4 posterior SSC's and 4 upper anterior crowns. I couldn’t believe that his dad (my younger brother) didn’t spend time brushing his teeth. He's a GI doctor and I guess he's too busy. We found out about the cavities when one of my nieces took a photo of him smiling….and we saw a bunch of cavities just from looking at the photo.

My MD anesthesiologist cousin didn’t feel comfortable sedating my nephew, who’s also his nephew. I guess because he didn’t feel safe doing it in a dental clinic setting. He gets used to getting a lot more helps from the nurses in the hospital setting. My cousin also is very new to doing sedation in the dental clinic setting. I guess he’ll feel more confident as he gets to do more cases in the dental clinics. So we had to ask the dental anesthesiologist to sedate our poor 3 yo nephew. His dad (my younger brother) paid the dental anesthesiologist $1500 for the 2.5 hours of dental procedures. My pedodontist friend did all the tx for free.

My MD anesthesiologist cousin’s daughter wants to pursue dentistry because she sees the kind of lifestyle that her uncle (me) and her aunt (my wife) have😀. I told the girl that she should specialize in dental anesthesiology and does what her dad is doing right now. It’s a much easier route than the medicine route. My cousin’s friend, who’s also a MD anesthesiologist, only does dental anesthesia....he travels to multiple dental offices with his mobile equipment. He helped guide my cousin to do dental anesthesiology (laws and regulations etc) and sold his used mobile equipment/cart to my cousin. His friend is very busy and needs my cousin's help.
 
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I mean this in the most respectful way possible—what even is the purpose of DA when MD/DO anesthesiologists and CRNAs exist? It seems like an unnecessary redundancy. I don’t buy the ‘comfort of the hospital’ argument as a reason why anesthesiologists and CRNAs feel less comfortable in the dental setting. If anything, most physicians would likely jump at the opportunity to leave hospitals for private practice offices, where they can enjoy better pay, hours, and efficiency.

Also, are the standards for becoming a DA comparable to those for MD/DO anesthesiologists and CRNAs? This may be an isolated example, but I know of someone who matched into DA right out of school with a poor class rank and a < 50 CBSE. DA forums also support the idea that many are often accepted into DA programs despite poor academic performance. While grades and scores aren’t everything, shouldn’t the standards for such an important role be much higher?
 
Someone should organize an Anesthesiologist, CRNA, Dental Anesthesiologist, OMFS, and Super Dentist royal rumble conference. This discussion is getting old and boring on SDN
 
Allsmiles! said:
Wow! So predictable. I just had to use certain words and bam…it comes out! The ego runs strong in this one 😂.
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I just called you out for the same thing you were accusing me of doing, not sure what you’re going on about.
Allsmiles! said:
Wait, I’m sorry, you thought I implied that MDAs think/know about DAs…let me clarify, as we have our awesome discussions about anesthesia the dos, donts, and opinions on OMFS, I’ll try to get their thoughts on DAs, and I have to explain what is a DA and that DAs (based on what I heard…not really…you are the first) get the same training as MDAs…you know what they do…they chuckle…they simply look at me with a puzzled face and chuckle.
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I could not care less what a random group of MDs thinks.
Allsmiles! said:
Oh, so the study you so proudly presented to all of us to make your case is not specific to OMFS. But, when someone in the thread just merely mentioned the distinction about OMFS safety track record you jump all over them by touting the article you presented as evidence. You did not even have the professionalism/courtesy to acknowledge the article the person submitted to counter your claim.
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Yea I acknowledge the study is underpowered with a small sample size relative to the number of anesthetics performed annually.

Here’s a study with a larger sample size that showed an adverse event incidence of 3:100,000 per year. A little high for my liking.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

What Is the Incidence of Anesthesia-Related Adverse Events in Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery Offices? A Review of 61,237 Sedation Cases From a Large Private Practice Consortium - PubMed

This investigation shows a smaller incidence of AEs than previous studies of the OMS anesthesia team model.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Allsmiles! said:
See, be better, be more serious when you are talking down to people who dedicate themselves to helping patients like OMFS and CRNAs. We all have a role to play, and yes, even someone like you do too!
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Says the guy calling DAs fake anesthesiologists…

I can tell this discussion will continue to go in circles.
 
SuxDrugs&Rocuronium said:
More

More cases and more emergency management training. It’s different working in private dental offices where you may be the sole provider when an emergency occurs. In a hospital a team of 20+ people can be the ere to help in a short amount of time, but that luxury doesn’t exist in dental offices. You can’t see every emergency, but the more cases you do the higher probability you have of seeing emergencies and getting experience managing them
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How many cases and how many emergencies would be necessary for a robust anesthesia training?
 
This argument is going in circles. The reality is that OMFS have a lucrative piece of the pie and everyone else wants it. You have the dental anesthesiologists who will (surprise surprise) argue against the surgeon anesthetist role because it works to their financial advantage. You also have our periodontist colleagues wanting to do "sedation and thirds" for which their residency training is generally lackluster.
We can all use different data to back up our claims but the reality is that everyone wants the OMFS gig/money but not the grueling residency that was completed prior.
 
ozzyomfs said:
100 percent agreed. Perhaps our dental anesthesiology colleagues should focus on the weekend warrior sedation courses than OMFS.
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I think the issue is that people who exclusively do anesthesia consider oms anesthesia training weak aka “weekend warrior”. Also, the operator/anesthetist model seems to be another issue that is raised. So focusing on the others is necessary but not sufficient in their eyes.
 
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IndifferentOsteoblast said:
I mean this in the most respectful way possible—what even is the purpose of DA when MD/DO anesthesiologists and CRNAs exist? It seems like an unnecessary redundancy. I don’t buy the ‘comfort of the hospital’ argument as a reason why anesthesiologists and CRNAs feel less comfortable in the dental setting. If anything, most physicians would likely jump at the opportunity to leave hospitals for private practice offices, where they can enjoy better pay, hours, and efficiency.

Also, are the standards for becoming a DA comparable to those for MD/DO anesthesiologists and CRNAs? This may be an isolated example, but I know of someone who matched into DA right out of school with a poor class rank and a < 50 CBSE. DA forums also support the idea that many are often accepted into DA programs despite poor academic performance. While grades and scores aren’t everything, shouldn’t the standards for such an important role be much higher?
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Look into the history of anesthesia/sedation. Dentistry has been involved in it since its inception. DAs train in all facets of anesthesia, just like our MD counterparts. We train in a hospital as well as outpatient/dental settings, making us well versed in various environments where we may or may not have a team for help. While patient physiology and pharmacology of our drugs is the same, the logistics and process of anesthesia in an office is quite different than in a hospital. We get very comfortable with nasal intubations and managing emergencies with little help. DAs have been around for a long time.

The History of the Specialty of Dental Anesthesiology - PMC

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

“The American Society of Dentist Anesthesiologists (ASDA) was founded on February 16, 1980, by dentist anesthesiologists Drs James Chancellor, Ralph Epstein, James Snyder, John Leyman, and Lois Jacobs, with all 17 initial members having completed the required minimum of 2 years of hospital anesthesiology residency training. Their goals were to make available to dental patients the full spectrum of anesthesia care, to train dentists in the full spectrum of anesthesia for dentistry, to establish more advanced continuing education programs in anesthesiology for dentists, and, especially, to pursue the development of a specialty of anesthesiology for the entire profession of dentistry. Dr Larry Trapp was the first ASDA president.”
 
Life of Pablo said:
You do perio if your CBSE score isn’t good enough. You do DA if your CBSE score AND class rank aren’t good enough.
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Cmon. I think it’s cool to see another dental specialty require such a rigorous exam. The scores will rise through the years just as it did OS. The money is probably better than perio too. DA residency pays a stipend as well.
 
yappy said:
I think the issue is that people who exclusively do anesthesia consider oms anesthesia training weak aka “weekend warrior”. Also, the operator/anesthetist model seems to be another issue that is raised. So focusing on the others is necessary but not sufficient
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It is highly doubtful that anyone with a basic level of intelligence would consider that weekend courses are equivalent to the anesthesia training that OMFS receive. It is 3 years in my program. Highly laughable to suggest that it is not sufficient to do what we do. I do not plan on running a neurosurgery GA case with ASA III patients in my OMFS practice like anesthesiologists.

If we are going to critique training, did they start teaching cricothyrotomies at weekend warrior courses? Or to MD anesthesiologists? Or to dental anesthesiologists? We had a case at the OR just last week where anesthesia ended up needing OMFS to do that.

The issue is only the surgeon anesthetist model and that issue has less to do with patient safety than finance/egos/grab a bigger piece of pie.
 
ozzyomfs said:
It is highly doubtful that anyone with a basic level of intelligence would consider that weekend courses are equivalent to the anesthesia training that OMFS receive. It is 3 years in my program. Highly laughable to suggest that it is not sufficient to do what we do. I do not plan on running a neurosurgery GA case with ASA III patients in my OMFS practice like anesthesiologists.

If we are going to critique training, did they start teaching cricothyrotomies at weekend warrior courses? Or to MD anesthesiologists? Or to dental anesthesiologists? We had a case at the OR just last week where anesthesia ended up needing OMFS to do that.

The issue is only the surgeon anesthetist model and that issue has less to do with patient safety than finance/egos/grab a bigger piece of pie.
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The neat part is that we are still grouped together in the public eye! Most of my friends who got their wisdom teeth out thought oral surgeons are just dentists. So me doing sedation is no different in the public/political eye unfortunately even though I didn't go to residency for this.
 
yappy said:
I think the issue is that people who exclusively do anesthesia consider oms anesthesia training weak aka “weekend warrior”. Also, the operator/anesthetist model seems to be another issue that is raised. So focusing on the others is necessary but not sufficient in their eyes.
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ozzyomfs said:
It is highly doubtful that anyone with a basic level of intelligence would consider that weekend courses are equivalent to the anesthesia training that OMFS receive. It is 3 years in my program. Highly laughable to suggest that it is not sufficient to do what we do. I do not plan on running a neurosurgery GA case with ASA III patients in my OMFS practice like anesthesiologists.

If we are going to critique training, did they start teaching cricothyrotomies at weekend warrior courses? Or to MD anesthesiologists? Or to dental anesthesiologists? We had a case at the OR just last week where anesthesia ended up needing OMFS to do that.

The issue is only the surgeon anesthetist model and that issue has less to do with patient safety than finance/egos/grab a bigger piece of pie.
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The “lack of training” argument also fails to hold water when you compare us to all the ED and GI docs etc running sedations every day with less than a fraction of the training we get in both anesthesia and surgical airways.

Plus, who do you think are the ones training and trusting us to run general anesthesia solo for 5 months on our rotation? Lol.

Point is, I don’t think anyone who actually has real anesthesia training or knowledge of OMFS training can claim we are undertrained to perform sedations. The argument is solely about the operator/anesthetist model, to which I defer to the studies referenced above.
 
702 said:
How many cases and how many emergencies would be necessary for a robust anesthesia training?
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Enough where their patients don’t die because they can’t recognize/treat a simple laryngospasm
 
Looking back at the recent OR emergency in our hospital, MD anesthesiologists can page gen surg, ENT, OMFS to perform a cricothyrotomy when all else has failed.
An outpatient setting is a different deal. Perhaps Dental anesthesiology should abstain from deep sedation in such settings since the education lacks surgical intervention skills.
What do i know? I'm just a dumb ole OMFS resident who pushes drugs for fun.
 
ozzyomfs said:
Looking back at the recent OR emergency in our hospital, MD anesthesiologists can page gen surg, ENT, OMFS to perform a cricothyrotomy when all else has failed.
An outpatient setting is a different deal. Perhaps Dental anesthesiology should abstain from deep sedation in such settings since the education lacks surgical intervention skills.
What do i know? I'm just a dumb ole OMFS resident who pushes drugs for fun.
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And I’ll bet this patient would not have been fit to be seen in an outpatient setting? Probably a neck cellulitis? Or laryngeal CA?

So many bruised egos from a simple comment from a random stranger on the internet.
 
SuxDrugs&Rocuronium said:
And I’ll bet this patient would not have been fit to be seen in an outpatient setting? Probably a neck cellulitis? Or laryngeal CA?

So many bruised egos from a simple comment from a random stranger on the internet.
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Here you go again…when you wanted to do OMFS was that an ego thing? When you decided to do DA, was that an ego thing? Stop, just stop already. Seriously, I’m being very serious right now…I understand you believe in something very strongly…it also is very self serving too. On top of that, you come on here and tell highly trained OMFS professionals with a proven track record to stop killing people. You lump all health professionals that provide sedation into one group and simply say, stop killing people. Honestly, do better, be smarter, be more professional and have a real honest discussion that is not so self serving. If you don’t see who/where the issue is, I can’t help you. Lastly, start your own thread on this topic and shout all you want at highly trained health professionals to stop killing their patients.
 
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Allsmiles! said:
Here you go again…when you wanted to do OMFS was that an ego thing? When you decided to do DA, was that an ego thing? Stop, just stop already. Seriously, I’m being very serious right now…I understand you believe in something very strongly…it also is very self serving too. On top of that, you come on here and tell highly trained OMFS professionals with a proven track record to stop killing people. You lump all health professionals that provide sedation into one group and simply say, stop killing people. Honestly, do better, be smarter, be more professional and have a real honest discussion that is not so self serving. If you don’t see who/where the issue is, I can’t help you. Lastly, start your own thread on this topic and shout all you want at highly trained health professionals to stop killing their patients.
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Haha thanks for proving my point
 
SuxDrugs&Rocuronium said:
Haha thanks for proving my point
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Honestly it is kind of strange that the specialty exists. Why not just go to med school at that point and become an Anesthesiologist? You would receive the best possible training in anesthesia. It has a mid-level provider vibe. If I have a complex case in my office it would make way more sense to hire anesthesiologist for safety and if it is a medically complex patient the case would likely be done in the OR anyway which will 100% be done by a CRNA/Anesthesiologist model anyway. It’s cool that people advance their training after dental school and want to educate themselves further but making wild statements about being an more useful and an equivalent or better than your Anesthesiologist counterparts is just ignorant. Mega Dunning Kruger effect in play here.
 
SuxDrugs&Rocuronium said:
And I’ll bet this patient would not have been fit to be seen in an outpatient setting? Probably a neck cellulitis? Or laryngeal CA?

So many bruised egos from a simple comment from a random stranger on the internet.
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You know very well that a can't intubate, cant ventilate scenario can happen in any setting.

There is a limitation in your training.
Since you're all about patient safety, go ahead and rectify that.
Leave outpatient sedation to providers who have training in both surgical and non surgical airways 🙂
 
oralsurgeryguy said:
Honestly it is kind of strange that the specialty exists. Why not just go to med school at that point and become an Anesthesiologist? You would receive the best possible training in anesthesia. It has a mid-level provider vibe. If I have a complex case in my office it would make way more sense to hire anesthesiologist for safety and if it is a medically complex patient the case would likely be done in the OR anyway which will 100% be done by a CRNA/Anesthesiologist model anyway. It’s cool that people advance their training after dental school and want to educate themselves further but making wild statements about being a more useful and an equivalent or better than your Anesthesiologist counterparts is just ignorant. Mega Dunning Kruger effect in play here.
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This seems like a very unfair assessment of the training for dental anesthesia.
 
ozzyomfs said:
You know very well that a can't intubate, cant ventilate scenario can happen in any setting.

There is a limitation in your training.
Since you're all about patient safety, go ahead and rectify that.
Leave outpatient sedation to providers who have training in both surgical and non surgical airways 🙂
Click to expand...
We do get trained in needle crics fyi.

So well trained in airway management that you guys have patients die from laryngospasms 🙃
 
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