Reapplying advice needed

[dostoevsky]

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I applied last cycle to 34 schools (sprinkled out mostly among the top 50 research schools with preference for CA and NY, avoided OOS public schools although maybe that was a mistake), received just 2 interviews, and ended up waitlisted at both (1 top-tier, 1 upper-mid). For a while, I was wondering if I'd made some sort of fatal error in my application, but I called a few schools and two of them told me it was just a problem with not "rising to the top." The only major thing that has changed since I submitted my application is that I've graduated, so I will be taking a year off before reapplying.

Some things about me: CA resident, "elite" East coast undergrad institution, female, not URM
2015-16 cycle: ~3.7 (science and overall similar), 34 MCAT, was a senior in college

After graduation, my overall gpa was 3.65, science gpa ~3.6 (maybe even a bit lower...)

So my questions...

1. Last cycle, I received no UC interviews (was on hold at UCSD for a while if that means anything). I will be taking the new MCAT in August and am fairly sure I will do better since I have more time. However, I would really like to have a shot at the UCs. Should I do a postbacc program to raise my gpa (3.6 from elite institution)? Or will an MCAT equivalent to ~36 offset it enough that I can work to earn some $ and experience instead?

2. Next year, my committee LoR packet will most likely contain 3 old letters, 2 new letters, and a committee update. Will the fact that I have three 2-year-old LoRs in my committee packet negatively affect my application, especially to schools I didn't apply to last cycle? I assume they would figure I am a reapplicant, even if I were a first-time applicant to their school.

Currently, I've secured a part-time scribe position and was hoping to find a research job, but having failed to gain admission once, I don't want to find myself in a position in 2018 where I've spent 2 years on only medically-related activities and (god forbid) fail again because it will make pursuing an alternative career only more difficult 🙁 Thus I am also considering either a research job or grad school in materials science/chemE. Any advice on gap year activities is also very welcome.

Thank you for all your advice.

 

[gyngyn]

Your old MCAT and gpa are above average and well within acceptable range for the UC's.
The problem is that 6,520 Californians are applying in a state that is going to matriculate only 910 of them.
Focus twice your energy on OOS schools that are likely to interview you, preferably schools where you won't be a re-applicant.
Where did you apply last year?

 

[dostoevsky]

Your old MCAT and gpa are above average and well within acceptable range for the UC's.
The problem is that 6,520 Californians are applying in a state that is going to matriculate only 910 of them.
Focus twice your energy on OOS schools that are likely to interview you, preferably schools where you won't be a re-applicant.
Where did you apply last year?

GWU
Weill
UMichigan - Ann Arbor
UPenn
WashU
Columbia
Duke
UChicago
URochester
Johns Hopkins
UPittsburg
USC
Tufts
Brown
OSU
NYU
BU
Yale
Emory
Harvard
Einstein
Northwestern
Case Western
UCSF
UCLA
UCSD
UC Davis
UC Irvine
Stanford
Mt Sinai
Wake Forest
Drexel
UVA
U of Iowa Carver

I realize a lot of these were reaches, but I figured I may as well apply since I thought I had a good number of schools with averages around my numbers. Are there certain states that are more likely to take OOS students? I initially avoided them after seeing the ratios at which they interviewed IS and OOS applicants.

 

[gyngyn]

You had 6 or 7 schools on this list where you had a fair to good chance at an interview. That's not usually enough for a CA applicant, even a good one. You need at least 15 OOS schools that matriculate at least 15% OOS and where your MCAT is at or above their median for matriculants. These should preferably be schools where you are not a re-applicant. For example, Tulane, Miami, BU, Albany, the Jesuits...

 

[dostoevsky]

You had 6 or 7 schools on this list where you had a fair to good chance at an interview. That's not usually enough for a CA applicant, even a good one. You need at least 15 OOS schools that matriculate at least 15% OOS and where your MCAT is at or above their median for matriculants. These should preferably be schools where you are not a re-applicant. For example, Tulane, Miami, BU, Albany, the Jesuits...

Okay I will definitely keep that in mind next year. If I want a decent shot at the UCs though, would you recommend doing a postbacc to improve my gpa as opposed to getting a job?
And also just wanted to throw this out there - would it be an absolutely terrible idea to apply this cycle to several schools I didn't apply to last year using the 1-year-old LoR packet with a 34/3.6?

 

[gyngyn]

Okay I will definitely keep that in mind next year. If I want a decent shot at the UCs though, would you recommend doing a postbacc to improve my gpa as opposed to getting a job?
And also just wanted to throw this out there - would it be an absolutely terrible idea to apply this cycle to several schools I didn't apply to last year using the 1-year-old LoR packet with a 34/3.6?

Your gpa is fine. Your list is not. A better list and well-written essays could easily lead to an acceptance this cycle. No one can count on a CA acceptance...

 

[dostoevsky]

Your gpa is fine. Your list is not. A better list and well-written essays could easily lead to an acceptance this cycle. No one can count on a CA acceptance...

Is it not a huge problem if the letter packet is from a previous year?

 

[gyngyn]

Is it not a huge problem if the letter packet is from a previous year?

Not huge. Can't you get them to update it?

 

[dostoevsky]

Not huge. Can't you get them to update it?

I could and I do have an additional LoR that I could ask a professor to forward to them. But if I do, the committee letter update probably won't be finished until late august at best. I'm not sure if having my file complete late is worth the update.

 

[gyngyn]

I could and I do have an additional LoR that I could ask a professor to forward to them. But if I do, the committee letter update probably won't be finished until late august at best. I'm not sure if having my file complete late is worth the update.

August isn't late. Late September is late.

 

[dostoevsky]

August isn't late. Late September is late.

I believe I'm only allowed to update the committee once, and I'd like to save that opportunity just in case for next year when I can attach 2 new letters from more medically-related letter writers.
Would it be unwise to reapply to some of the UC's this cycle? Since the submission of my application last year, I spent a summer doing research and won 2 music awards. My gpa and MCAT will not be different but I would strongly prefer to attend a UC if possible, and I guess I feel unsure about possibly getting accepted this cycle without having a 2nd try at the UCs.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I believe I'm only allowed to update the committee once, and I'd like to save that opportunity just in case for next year when I can attach 2 new letters from more medically-related letter writers.
Would it be unwise to reapply to some of the UC's this cycle? Since the submission of my application last year, I spent a summer doing research and won 2 music awards. My gpa and MCAT will not be different but I would strongly prefer to attend a UC if possible, and I guess I feel unsure about possibly getting accepted this cycle without having a 2nd try at the UCs.

If you get that far out, you probably wouldn't have to have a committee letter. Just update and make this cycle be your last.

 

[gyngyn]

I believe I'm only allowed to update the committee once, and I'd like to save that opportunity just in case for next year when I can attach 2 new letters from more medically-related letter writers.
Would it be unwise to reapply to some of the UC's this cycle? Since the submission of my application last year, I spent a summer doing research and won 2 music awards. My gpa and MCAT will not be different but I would strongly prefer to attend a UC if possible, and I guess I feel unsure about possibly getting accepted this cycle without having a 2nd try at the UCs.

You could also get individual letters instead of a committee letter if there is a limit on updates.
There is nothing wrong with your stats. There is no improvement in your stats that will increase your odds of acceptance at a UC. A dramatically better application in every other aspect could make a difference. "Medically related" letter writers are the lowest form of endorsement in this process. Music awards are great but not likely to change your desirability.

We would all prefer to attend a UC, if possible. It tends to be one of the less possible outcomes in this process, though. I am looking at a waitlist right now filled with people with stats as good as yours who were admitted nowhere. Most of the reason can be explained by the fact that CA applicants will often apply to the CA schools and an OOS list that is not consistent with success.

 

[dostoevsky]

@ThoracicGuy and @gyngyn
I will apply to schools that I didn't apply to before and send the additional letter separately. Since the only thing that's really changed since they wrote my letter is that I've graduated, I don't think the update will be worth the trouble. If I don't have any luck with new schools, I'll reapply to schools including UCs and hopefully have better luck since my application will look different by next year. Thank you so much for all the advice and insights!

 

[Faha]

This time around include these schools in your application:
Vermont
Quinnipiac
Hofstra
New York Medical College
Albany
Penn State
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
GW
Georgetown
Eastern Virginia
Virginia Commonwealth
Oakland Beaumont
Western Michigan
Medical College Wisconsin
Loyola
Rosalind Franklin
St.Louis
Creighton
Tulane
Miami

 

[dostoevsky]

This time around include these schools in your application:
Vermont
Quinnipiac
Hofstra
New York Medical College
Albany
Penn State
Drexel
Temple
Jefferson
GW
Georgetown
Eastern Virginia
Virginia Commonwealth
Oakland Beaumont
Western Michigan
Medical College Wisconsin
Loyola
Rosalind Franklin
St.Louis
Creighton
Tulane
Miami

Thank you! I'll look into these.

 

[dostoevsky]

@gyngyn I have one more question. I was going to retake the MCAT in August and probably will do it anyway since I have a lot of free time this summer. If I say there is a future score on AMCAS, will schools continue processing my application with my old score? Or will it not be complete until the 2nd score arrives?

 

[ThoracicGuy]

@gyngyn I have one more question. I was going to retake the MCAT in August and probably will do it anyway since I have a lot of free time this summer. If I say there is a future score on AMCAS, will schools continue processing my application with my old score? Or will it not be complete until the 2nd score arrives?

Some will wait to process your application. You have a 34. Unless your score expires, don't retake a good mcat. You have as good or better of a chance of doing the same or worse than doing better. That would hurt you.

 

[Goro]

Agree 100% with my learned colleague TC. Retaking a 34 (unless it's expiring) will be viewed as an act of hubris...if not outright stupidity.

@gyngyn I have one more question. I was going to retake the MCAT in August and probably will do it anyway since I have a lot of free time this summer. If I say there is a future score on AMCAS, will schools continue processing my application with my old score? Or will it not be complete until the 2nd score arrives?

 

[dostoevsky]

@ThoracicGuy @Goro What if I didn't enter it as a future score on the AMCAS? (Am I required to report all scores?) The reason I was planning to retake it was in case I had to reapply next year. I don't mind not having it sent this cycle, but since I have a lot of free time, I was thinking I'd get it done anyway.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

@ThoracicGuy @Goro What if I didn't enter it as a future score on the AMCAS? (Am I required to report all scores?) The reason I was planning to retake it was in case I had to reapply next year. I don't mind not having it sent this cycle, but since I have a lot of free time, I was thinking I'd get it done anyway.

They can see if you have one pending on your mcat report from what I remember hearing on these forums. Retake it later if you must, not during the cycle.

 

[gyngyn]

@ThoracicGuy @Goro What if I didn't enter it as a future score on the AMCAS? (Am I required to report all scores?) The reason I was planning to retake it was in case I had to reapply next year. I don't mind not having it sent this cycle, but since I have a lot of free time, I was thinking I'd get it done anyway.

A new score instantly and automatically updates in the AMCAS system (whether you want it or not). If it is lower, your foot is shot. The odds that you will not get a significantly better score than the your current one is actually quite high, since it is the 94th percentile.

 

[dostoevsky]

@ThoracicGuy @gyngyn If the latest MCAT score accepted is in September, would it be okay to take it in October or later?

 

[ThoracicGuy]

@ThoracicGuy @gyngyn If the latest MCAT score accepted is in September, would it be okay to take it in October or later?

If you are applying this cycle, I would wait till probably after January to retake. Maybe even next spring. Why are you in such a rush to retake? Do you not have any confidence of acceptance this round?

 

[dostoevsky]

If you are applying this cycle, I would wait till probably after January to retake. Maybe even next spring. Why are you in such a rush to retake? Do you not have any confidence of acceptance this round?

I have a lot of time on my hands right now and by spring I'll be a lot busier. I guess there's just no guarantee of acceptance this cycle so I'd like to have it ready in case I need to reapply.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I have a lot of time on my hands right now and by spring I'll be a lot busier. I guess there's just no guarantee of acceptance this cycle so I'd like to have it ready in case I need to reapply.

Put together your best application now and maybe you won't have to retake at all... If it is expiring for future cycles, take it after this is over. Even if it means you are busier.

 

[dostoevsky]

Put together your best application now and maybe you won't have to retake at all... If it is expiring for future cycles, take it after this is over. Even if it means you are busier.

Okay, I've been working on fixing up my application the last few days. Going to re-write my PS too since I think my previous one didn't reflect who I was very well. If I'm aiming for this cycle to be my last and have around 25 new schools on my list, should I apply to some of the same schools from last year that I am still interested in? i.e. the 2 I was waitlisted at or schools where my gpa/MCAT were around the median (such as Boston, Emory??)

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Okay, I've been working on fixing up my application the last few days. Going to re-write my PS too since I think my previous one didn't reflect who I was very well. If I'm aiming for this cycle to be my last and have around 25 new schools on my list, should I apply to some of the same schools from last year that I am still interested in? i.e. the 2 I was waitlisted at or schools where my gpa/MCAT were around the median (such as Boston, Emory??)

You will probably have better luck with applying to new schools that you aren't a reapplicant at. If you want to put together a list of schools and post it on here, I'm sure you can get some good feedback on them. Applying to prior schools is ok, but you'll have a harder time there.

 

[dostoevsky]

You will probably have better luck with applying to new schools that you aren't a reapplicant at. If you want to put together a list of schools and post it on here, I'm sure you can get some good feedback on them. Applying to prior schools is ok, but you'll have a harder time there.

Tentative list (Took out schools that enroll <15% OOS)
UNC Chapel Hill
OHSU
Dartmouth
U of Wisconson - Madison
U of Minnesota
U of Colorado - Denver
U of Maryland
U of Miami Miller
U of Utah
U of Vermont
U of Illinois
U of Cincinnati
U of Kentucky
U of Arizona (Phoenix and Tucson)
Jefferson
Hofstra
Temple
St. Louis
SUNY Stony Brook
SUNY Downstate
SUNY Buffalo
Tulane
Albany
NYMC

Schools from last year that I am interested in reapplying to:
Tufts
Boston
Emory
Alpert
Einstein
Weill (II, waitlisted)
USC (II, alternate)
UC (Davis, Irvine, LA, SD)???

Edit: Also one more thing I forgot to mention is that in my application last year, I barely mentioned my involvement in music. One of my interviewers told me he didn't exactly realize I was a musician until we started talking about my extracurriculars, so I think it might be a side of myself that I didn't show on paper before which I can back up with 2 recent awards.

 

[gyngyn]

Delete: OHSU (rarely takes CA applicants), MN, MD, CO. Otherwise, not bad.
I'll be surprised if you get re-interviewed at either Cornell or USC, but that's your call.

 

[dostoevsky]

@gyngyn Am I being unwise by including the UCs and prior schools? If I don't get in this time, will I have essentially screwed myself over by applying to all schools within reach?

 

[gyngyn]

@gyngyn Am I being unwise by including the UCs and prior schools? If I don't get in this time, will I have essentially screwed myself over by applying to all schools within reach?

You have good stats. You may as well give it a shot. The UC's are a reach for everyone.

 

[dostoevsky]

If I had to pick maybe 3 of these schools where I am a re-applicant, which ones would be the best/strategic choices? And is there a consensus on applying to schools that previously interviewed or waitlisted you?
Tufts
Boston
Emory
Alpert
Einstein
Mt Sinai
Weill (II, waitlisted)
USC (II, alternate)
Trying to save a few to avoid being a 3rd time re-applicant in case I don't get in this year..
Edit: also will not be applying to UC's (unless it's worth giving UCSD a shot if I was on hold last year?)

 

[gyngyn]

If I had to pick maybe 3 of these schools where I am a re-applicant, which ones would be the best/strategic choices? And is there a consensus on applying to schools that previously interviewed or waitlisted you?
Tufts
Boston
Emory
Alpert
Einstein
Mt Sinai
Weill (II, waitlisted)
USC (II, alternate)
Trying to save a few to avoid being a 3rd time re-applicant in case I don't get in this year..
Edit: also will not be applying to UC's (unless it's worth giving UCSD a shot if I was on hold last year?)

Delete USC, Sinai, and Cornell.

 

[GrapesofRath]

If I had to pick maybe 3 of these schools where I am a re-applicant, which ones would be the best/strategic choices? And is there a consensus on applying to schools that previously interviewed or waitlisted you?
Tufts
Boston
Emory
Alpert
Einstein
Mt Sinai
Weill (II, waitlisted)
USC (II, alternate)
Trying to save a few to avoid being a 3rd time re-applicant in case I don't get in this year..
Edit: also will not be applying to UC's (unless it's worth giving UCSD a shot if I was on hold last year?)

Some general things I might add in terms of optimizing your school list.

1) You have the wrong WI school on your list. MCW is the one you want. In fact you really should add it, it's one of the best target schools for you. U of WI takes a number of OOS through their rural medicine program and MD/PhD.
2) I would seriously consider adding several of the MI schools: Oakland, Wayne St and W Michigan. All have shown some level of predilection towards CA applicants(34% of Oakland's class last year was from CA which was more than MI). None of them get very many apps; you're a good candidate for all of them.
3) Creighton is another good option I like here with a very favorable OOS app/matriculant ratio.
4) Remove the schools gyngyn referred you to.
5) In terms of schools worthy of a reapp, Einstein is probably worth one. Maybe Tufts. The others are going to probably be long shots: I would probably just pick the few you like the best if your intent on reapplying to a few of them.
6) I see about a dozen schools on your current list you can call targets and go in saying you have a reasonable shot at getting a II at. I listed a few more above I would consider: as a re-applicant the more targets the better. Having said that, if you can interview decently I think you'll get enough IIs.

 

[dostoevsky]

Oh my I actually just got off the waitlist for Weill after submitting my AMCAS primary yesterday. Thank you for all the help!

 

[gyngyn]

Thank goodness.