Reapplying 7th time (3.18, 524)

[sasquatch_102]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

PhD student (1 semester away from graduating) reapplying for the seventh time in the 27-28 application cycle. One IS interview this cycle. Interviewed at up to 3 schools/cycle previously. Big changes made for this cycle included increasing clinical experience (hospital volunteering) and improving essays

Wondering what the chances of getting in are and what I can do to improve my application

Should I include extracurricular activities starting from college until now or just extracurriculars from the past couple of years

• 524/3.31/top 20 college | 4.0 grad school GPA
• Shadowing: 500 h 2023-2024 radiology, pathology, anesthesia, heme/onc
• Clinical: 400 h hospital volunteer 2024-current
• Nonclinical: 50 h TA 2025, 30 h retirement home 2024
• Research: current PhD student
• Other: gym, hobbies
• School list (TX resident)
  • All TX schools: UTSW, UTMB, McGovern, UT San Antonio, Dell, UT Rio Grande, UT Tyler, A&M, Texas Tech, Texas Tech El Paso, UNT, UH, Sam Houston DO, Baylor
  • Albert Einstein
  • Case Western
  • Drexel
  • Duke
  • Emory
  • Icahn
  • University Buffalo
  • USC
  • Temple University
  • New York Medical College
  • Northwestern
  • Rutgers
  • Thomas Jefferson
  • UCSF
  • UColorado
  • UMiami
  • UPitt
  • WashU

 

[glycolysister]

 

[Faha]

Your low non clinical volunteering hours are also a weakness. You should accumulate 150+ hours in activities such as food bank or homeless shelter before you reapply. Non Texas MD schools interview few Texas applicants since they know from years of experience that Texas applicants will attend a Texas school. After 7 application cycles with no success you should also apply broadly to DO schools and I suggest including all these:
WESTERN
TUCOM-CA
AZCOM
TUNCOM
ATSU-KCOM
KCU-COM
DMU-COM
CCOM
MU-COM
OSU-COM
UIWSOM
VCOM (all schools)
ACOM
CUSOM
WVSOM
PCOM (all schools)
NYITCOM
LECOM (all schools)
Touro-NY
NOVA
You could also try these AMCAS MD schools:
TCU
Tulane
Roseman
Alice Walton
Belmont
Methodist

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Welcome to the forums.

We are missing information. Seven-time applicants probably have more than one MCAT.

When did you graduate from college before your Ph.D. program? What is your Ph.D. in? Where are your research publications?

Why are you making a pivot to medicine now, especially if you have not kept up with non-clinical community service? Ph.D. training gives you the time to work in the community.

Where did you previously apply? WHEN did you last apply (all six times)?

 

[A224B]

OK, let's break this down.

You have 7 application cycles and your app is still flawed, and you work in an analytical, high-information, data-driven field? How have you not sought this information out by your third cycle? You have a 3.18 GPA and only one DO school? I am hesitant to take this seriously: this reads like a troll post.

 

[Goro]

PhD student (1 semester away from graduating) reapplying for the seventh time in the 27-28 application cycle. One IS interview this cycle. Interviewed at up to 7 schools/cycle previously. Big changes made for this cycle included increasing clinical experience (hospital volunteering) and improving essays

Wondering what the chances of getting in are and what I can do to improve my application

Should I include extracurricular activities starting from college until now or just extracurriculars from the past couple of years

• 524/3.18/top 20 college | 4.0 grad school GPA
• Shadowing: 500 h 2023-2024 radiology, pathology, anesthesia, heme/onc
• Clinical: 400 h hospital volunteer 2024-current
• Nonclinical: 50 h TA 2025, 30 h retirement home 2024
• Research: current PhD student
• Other: gym, hobbies
• School list (TX resident)
  • All TX schools: UTSW, UTMB, McGovern, UT San Antonio, Dell, UT Rio Grande, UT Tyler, A&M, Texas Tech, Texas Tech El Paso, UNT, UH, Sam Houston DO, Baylor
  • Albert Einstein
  • Case Western
  • Drexel
  • Duke
  • Emory
  • Icahn
  • University Buffalo
  • USC
  • Temple University
  • New York Medical College
  • Northwestern
  • Rutgers
  • Thomas Jefferson
  • UCSF
  • UColorado

• • I'm surprised that you have gotten interviews in the past actually, as normally your very few non clinical volunteering hours is normally lethal especially for MD schools. You definitely should have more do schools on your list since after seven times of trying, Beggars can't be choosy

 

[sasquatch_102]

Welcome to the forums.

We are missing information. Seven-time applicants probably have more than one MCAT.

When did you graduate from college before your Ph.D. program? What is your Ph.D. in? Where are your research publications?

Why are you making a pivot to medicine now, especially if you have not kept up with non-clinical community service? Ph.D. training gives you the time to work in the community.

Where did you previously apply? WHEN did you last apply (all six times)?

Hi, sorry I made a few mistakes when getting details from my friend.
His undergrad GPA was 3.31 not 3.18 if that helps at all for him.
Graduated in 2015 with 2 MCATs taken in 2014 and 2015 35 and 33, and another in 2022 524.
PhD in cancer biology with 2 publications (1 first author) projected later this year and 5 publications previously as a lab tech before entering graduate school.
Previous applications include 3 cycles in tandem while applying to grad school in 2016-2018 and past 3 cycles. He says he has always wanted to do medicine and research has only been a stop gap in the interim since he did not get into med school the first few cycles.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Hi, sorry I made a few mistakes when getting details from my friend.
His undergrad GPA was 3.31 not 3.18 if that helps at all for him.
Graduated in 2015 with 2 MCATs taken in 2014 and 2015 35 and 33, and another in 2022 524.
PhD in cancer biology with 2 publications (1 first author) projected later this year and 5 publications previously as a lab tech before entering graduate school.
Previous applications include 3 cycles in tandem while applying to grad school in 2016-2018 and past 3 cycles. He says he has always wanted to do medicine and research has only been a stop gap in the interim since he did not get into med school the first few cycles.

If you are posting for someone else, let them speak for themselves and create an account. Otherwise, we will attribute this profile to you, and presenting an honest profile is professional.

 

[A224B]

Wondering what the chances of getting in are and what I can do to improve my application

You're your own best friend I see

 

[sasquatch_102]

Apologies. My friend posted on my behalf using their account but then gave me their login password for continuity sake. I see how that was confusing.

Wondering what the chances of getting in are and what I can do to improve my application

You're your own best friend I see

Who else could be a better friend lol

Previously applied to basically just Texas schools. Expanded the school list to the one listed above for the most recent cycle but I see now that I should have applied to more low to tier MD schools and way more DO schools. Also should have paid more attention to whether schools primarily accept in-state students.

My current plan is to graduate from my PhD program in December. Until then, I will continue volunteering at the hospital, take an EMT course, and find a non clinical volunteering gig that really resonates with me. I plan to work as an EMT full time beginning January 2027 at the latest while maintaining my non clinical volunteering.

Do you think it would be beneficial for me to take MS1 classes at the med school associated with my grad school?

Thanks for the responses, I appreciate any and all advice you can offer.

 

[wysdoc]

Apologies. My friend posted on my behalf using their account but then gave me their login password for continuity sake. I see how that was confusing.


Who else could be a better friend lol

Previously applied to basically just Texas schools. Expanded the school list to the one listed above for the most recent cycle but I see now that I should have applied to more low to tier MD schools and way more DO schools. Also should have paid more attention to whether schools primarily accept in-state students.

My current plan is to graduate from my PhD program in December. Until then, I will continue volunteering at the hospital, take an EMT course, and find a non clinical volunteering gig that really resonates with me. I plan to work as an EMT full time beginning January 2027 at the latest while maintaining my non clinical volunteering.

Do you think it would be beneficial for me to take MS1 classes at the med school associated with my grad school?

Thanks for the responses, I appreciate any and all advice you can offer.

You can’t just sign up for med school classes if you are not an accepted medical student!

 

[A224B]

I mean, they could enroll in a SMP to take med school tier-coursework. The Georgetown or RVUCOM SMPs do have great linkage rates.

EMT is excellent clinical experience, but my concern would be that if you don't get in, the time you spent trying would diminish Ph.D job opportunities. The K99 timer starts counting down the moment you defend, and both patent prosecution and biotech equity analysis prefer to hire fresh Ph.Ds. Why do you think the 7th time will be the charm?

What's the SDN record for number of years spent applying before an acceptance, anyway? I know we have a lot of 3-time reapplicants, do we have any 4s or 5s?

Apparently, Gemini says that we have a 5-cycle matriculant here, but they received their acceptance in 2001 after 104 rejections, and presumably are nearing retirement now. If you pull this off, you would be the record holder.

 

[sasquatch_102]

You can’t just sign up for med school classes if you are not an accepted medical student!

Apologies, I've always seen med school courses available on the graduate school course list but I've never actually looked into whether it is possible to take them.

I mean, they could enroll in a SMP to take med school tier-coursework. The Georgetown or RVUCOM SMPs do have great linkage rates.

EMT is excellent clinical experience, but my concern would be that if you don't get in, the time you spent trying would diminish Ph.D job opportunities. The K99 timer starts counting down the moment you defend, and both patent prosecution and biotech equity analysis prefer to hire fresh Ph.Ds. Why do you think the 7th time will be the charm?

What's the SDN record for number of years spent applying before an acceptance, anyway? I know we have a lot of 3-time reapplicants, do we have any 4s or 5s?

Apparently, Gemini says that we have a 5-cycle matriculant here, but they received their acceptance in 2001 after 104 rejections, and presumably are nearing retirement now. If you pull this off, you would be the record holder.

I'm not sure the 7th time will be the charm although it would be great if it were. I'd like to give the physician dream one last herculean try with the knowledge that I have now. I know that the effort I'm putting in now would have been of better use years ago, but the only thing I can affect at this point in time is my behavior moving forward.

Thanks for the thoughts.

 

[PickaGodnPray]

Genuinely want to know how your "friend" could go through seven cycles and end up with that top heavy list of schools for their recent application?

 

[A224B]

I understand completely. You don't want to live a life where you feel intense regret whenever you see a physician on TV or when you yourself are a patient. You have a dream: a lot of people in your shoes would have gone IMG by now. You annihilated the MCAT, and it's clear you can do the same to a CBSE.

What kind of AACOMAS application history do you have? Just SHSU? I think with the right ECs you could put together a compelling DO app.

 

[Goro]

I submit that after 7 cycles, it's time to do something else.

 

[polymerization]

I agree that it may be more fruitful to seek greener pastures elsewhere. This is a failure mode I nearly touched in my own experience.

The reason why OP likely has few ECs (by my guess) is because they climbed too fast in a tangential field and aged themselves out of the entry-level clinical roles they need for the application. A physician holds a near-mythical degree of power compared to an 18-year-old.

A 30+ year old PhD sees through more of the human dynamic and is less swayed by it/will put up more professional boundaries. I don't think it would be easy for them to find roles in which strict obedience is demanded like clinic EMTs, MAs, CNAs, PCTs, etc. where your job is not to learn, but to shut up and do as you're told. You're not exactly hired for your ability to think through pathophysiology or for your patient interview skills. The job only asks you to be productive w/r/t revenue; that you can learn something on the side is incidental.

The education might also make them feel like a peer to the physician which can be uncomfortable for both parties. It would never be a matter of explicit discrimination (there is no sign that says people over 30 or those with advanced degrees need not apply), but rather an endless job search that never resolves seemingly for no reason. I'm not surprised they don't have much of anything in the way of typical activities.

That said, after 7 tries... and still not making any kind of effort toward aspects of the application OP really could speak to (like nonclinical volunteering, showing leadership at the PhD level within their program, finding opportunities to stand out in ways that require initiative as opposed to passive accumulation)... doesn't look great.

At this point OP has positioned themselves for a scientist job, so I think the real question is whether they want to go into academia or industry. My vote goes to industry given they don't appear to be interested in a post-doc or pursuing teaching in any way... but hey, prove me wrong. I'll be here for the next ~8 years. Come back and tell us about lucky number 7.

 

[A224B]

I don't think the barrier will be getting at the level of finding a position to get clinical experience

 

[polymerization]

I don't think the barrier will be getting at the level of finding a position to get clinical experience

I'm not implying that either. That said, if this applicant had thousands of clinical hours and nonclinical volunteering, we would all be humming a different tune.

What I am saying is that, because they don't already have those hours after 6 failed cycles, getting them now becomes both increasingly unlikely based on the patterned behavior OP has exhibited over time, but above and beyond that, the job market itself recognizes path-dependency and the passage of time. This is not totally unique to medicine; ask a 55-year old company man fired from a low management position they got by climbing the ranks from frank labor with a HS diploma. Good luck trying to get a job at all, much less a lateral move into another management role.

It's unfortunate but we hear it all the time. The door to medicine closes from the inside. No one individual closes it; it's more of a death by a thousand cuts. I emphasize the cuts that are most salient, but my analysis isn't exhaustive by any means.

 

[A224B]

It would absolutely be a mistake to apply again without 1000 recent clinical hours and 250 hours of non-clinical volunteering, and to apply again without a lot of DOs, but if OP gets that, there's a ton of mid-30s med students. Most people are done with Ph.D by 28-29 anyway.

I think this user can become the SDN record holder, honestly. That record has stood for 20 whole years and it'd be good to see it get broken before this forum becomes any less active. I think it would be bad psychologically to stop now that the Ph.D is complete and the biotech industry is also in the absolute crapper.

 

[sasquatch_102]

I agree that it may be more fruitful to seek greener pastures elsewhere. This is a failure mode I nearly touched in my own experience.

The reason why OP likely has few ECs (by my guess) is because they climbed too fast in a tangential field and aged themselves out of the entry-level clinical roles they need for the application. A physician holds a near-mythical degree of power compared to an 18-year-old.

A 30+ year old PhD sees through more of the human dynamic and is less swayed by it/will put up more professional boundaries. I don't think it would be easy for them to find roles in which strict obedience is demanded like clinic EMTs, MAs, CNAs, PCTs, etc. where your job is not to learn, but to shut up and do as you're told. You're not exactly hired for your ability to think through pathophysiology or for your patient interview skills. The job only asks you to be productive w/r/t revenue; that you can learn something on the side is incidental.

The education might also make them feel like a peer to the physician which can be uncomfortable for both parties. It would never be a matter of explicit discrimination (there is no sign that says people over 30 or those with advanced degrees need not apply), but rather an endless job search that never resolves seemingly for no reason. I'm not surprised they don't have much of anything in the way of typical activities.

That said, after 7 tries... and still not making any kind of effort toward aspects of the application OP really could speak to (like nonclinical volunteering, showing leadership at the PhD level within their program, finding opportunities to stand out in ways that require initiative as opposed to passive accumulation)... doesn't look great.

At this point OP has positioned themselves for a scientist job, so I think the real question is whether they want to go into academia or industry. My vote goes to industry given they don't appear to be interested in a post-doc or pursuing teaching in any way... but hey, prove me wrong. I'll be here for the next ~8 years. Come back and tell us about lucky number 7.

I understand where you're coming from and I appreciate your honesty. There is definitely validity to what you've said and I will keep it in mind as I move forward.

It would absolutely be a mistake to apply again without 1000 recent clinical hours and 250 hours of non-clinical volunteering, and to apply again without a lot of DOs, but if OP gets that, there's a ton of mid-30s med students. Most people are done with Ph.D by 28-29 anyway.

I think this user can become the SDN record holder, honestly. That record has stood for 20 whole years and it'd be good to see it get broken before this forum becomes any less active. I think it would be bad psychologically to stop now that the Ph.D is complete and the biotech industry is also in the absolute crapper.

Thanks for the optimistic outlook, here's to hoping you're correct in your prediction. I've applied to SHSU twice and UNT three times. Will make sure to exceed the number of hours you've quoted here so I can really demonstrate my dedication to the field.


Appreciate everyone's comments to this post.