Reapplying next year with a lower GPA

[wahoo2010]

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I applied to medical schools this year, and it looks like I'm not going to be accepted. I'm currently taking very difficult courses required for my major, where 1/2 of the students get C or below. This will definitely decrease my GPA by the time I will reapply next year. Will medical schools understand that I'm taking difficult courses or just look at my senior GPA and think that I'm slacking?

 

[PinkIvy08]

Unless you have a ton of rejections, I'm not sure it's safe to say you don't stand a chance at being accepted. It's only November! We still have 4 months left in the interviewing season (some schools even interview in April).

Anywho, back to your original question...I think it will look bad reapplying with any lower stat - including GPA. As a re-applicant, you want your application to be strong. That means higher GPA (if possible), higher MCAT (if applicable), increased patient exposure, added research (if you want) and/or more ECs. You never want anything to be worse than it was when you first applied - what does that show the AdComs??? While they might understand your situation, I honestly don't think they'll care. It's one thing if you might get a B+ b/c of a harder schedule, but a few C's are like little red flags. Can you take any over the summer?

 

[jvesco22]

It seems like the only thing that would matter when you reapply would be having better stats/ec's than this cycle, regardless of what kind of classes you took.

Why would they care if you took "difficult" classes your senior year if your app looks worse than it does now?

 

[apumic]

Umm... so what you're saying is that you don't think you're going to get in this time w/ your current stats but hope to get in with worse stats next year?! Yeah, sorry, not gonna fly. There's a reason reapplicants are expected to have improved significantly since their last application -- it's because they are reapplicants who could not get in last year with their then-current profile. In other words, if you weren't acceptable this year, your only chance at becoming acceptable is to improve significantly. A few Cs or C-s could be reason to even rescind an acceptance after it was offered since it'd drop you below a 3.0 in your final semester (which is definitely a red flag, esp. jr or sr yr). You've got to keep those grades up, no matter what it takes.


Btw... the average in a class should be a C. Anything above that is grade inflation. Only the top students are going to make the cut, which IMO is a good thing as it allows for a wider distribution. Having all 3.5+s at a school is pretty much useless to future employers, grad schools, med schools, law schools, etc. considering an applicant.

 

[not so calm now]

The majority (if not all) of UVA's big science lecture courses, especially the ones required for med school, are 50% C or below.

That being said, I think it will probably depend on how well you are able to strengthen the non-GPA aspects of your application. What are you planning to do in your gap year? If you expect to have significantly improved your application in other ways (i.e., better volunteer experience, more research, etc.) I don't think you're definitely headed for a second rejection. This is assuming you get just a couple Cs, not any Ds or Fs. Below a C is a red flag. One or two Cs is fine.

You could also look into doing an SMP in your gap year if your MCAT is pretty good.

 

[wahoo2010]

I appreciate your comments. I think there is some misunderstanding here, though. First of all, I'm not getting Cs; however, I'm not getting As in some classes. I predict that my cumulative GPA will drop by 0.05 or so, even though my science GPA will increase very slightly (I'm doing very well in science classes). Second, admission directors and faculty interviewers told me that I have excellent academic credentials except my MCAT verbal score. I'm planning to retake MCAT this spring and work on that verbal score. So, will a slight decrease in cumulative GPA still affect me, even though I'm taking very difficult course load and improving in other areas (ECs, research, and MCAT)?

P.S. I don't understand why many people assume I go to UVA? Because I don't go to that school.

 

[bannie22]

yes. a drop in gpa would always hurt you.

and i think you know the answer to that.

whether the other components are improved to overall improve your app is up to you

 

[muhali3]

There's no point in taking those classes if they're going to hurt your GPA. Since you've already applied this cycle, it seems that you have all your pre-reqs completed. You don't need to be taking higher-level classes unless you can get a B+ or above in them.

 

[wahoo2010]

There's no point in taking those classes if they're going to hurt your GPA. Since you've already applied this cycle, it seems that you have all your pre-reqs completed. You don't need to be taking higher-level classes unless you can get a B+ or above in them.

I wouldn't take them if they aren't required for my major. 🙁

 

[not so calm now]

P.S. I don't understand why many people assume I go to UVA? Because I don't go to that school.

The username.

In your case, if you've already been advised that it's your MCAT score, and the decrease is only very slight, you probably won't encounter problems with it.

 

[TAWS]

I'm sorry but a C as a median grade is harsh. That just isn't the norm, it's grade deflation. In my experience, a normal median grade for pre-med classes is a B/B-

 

[bannie22]

^ its always been C or C+.

 

[JJMrK]

I applied to medical schools this year, and it looks like I'm not going to be accepted. I'm currently taking very difficult courses required for my major, where 1/2 of the students get C or below. This will definitely decrease my GPA by the time I will reapply next year. Will medical schools understand that I'm taking difficult courses or just look at my senior GPA and think that I'm slacking?

How many interviews have you had/do you have coming up? You've still got a shot.

A lower GPA isn't going to look good, and when you're telling us that 50% of kids get A's and B's, that doesn't sound like a difficult course at all. If you have to reapply, do it earlier than you did this year and apply to more schools.

 

[apumic]

I'm sorry but a C as a median grade is harsh. That just isn't the norm, it's grade deflation. In my experience, a normal median grade for pre-med classes is a B/B-

I have to strongly, albeit respectfully, disagree. If a B is average then that basically devalues an A. If we have 5 levels of grading, we ought to use all of them. Number of As should equal number failed (Fs) and number above average (B) should equal number below average/marginally pass (D). Cs (passing grades) should go to those who pass okay/satisfactorily. Otherwise, you are basically depriving anyone trying evaluating a student's GPA from the data they actually need. The average GPA ought to be around 2.0 to 2.5 w/ 3.0 being strong and anything above a 3.5 being "very strong." Unfortunately, we live in a culture where everyone feels entitled to good grades and professors who actually follow their syllabi get "in trouble" despite the fact that their syllabi often clearly state "a C will be given for following and satisfactorily fulfilling all stated requirements of this course. Additional effort and achievement above and beyond that required for completion will be required to obtain a B. As will require exemplary achievement, while a D would indicate less than satisfactory work and an F, unsatisfactory work." Yet I have, as a TA, seen many students get by with a B despite unsatisfactory work... and I've utterly failed (i.e., w/ 10% or 20%) some of those students on assignments because they thought they could get by with less than college-level work because the assignment was "minor."

 

[bannie22]

^ wow. i did not know the mean shud be 2.0

i tink ive been hanging around too many ppl with 4.0s



*thinks sdn*

 

[mybubbles14]

^ its always been C or C+.

B- at my school...

 

[dru2002]

^ its always been C or C+.

^ wow. i did not know the mean shud be 2.0

i tink ive been hanging around too many ppl with 4.0s



*thinks sdn*

Just noting the lack of continuity.

 

[bannie22]

Just noting the lack of continuity.

confused by your statement. 😕

 

[c5212]

Well if you don't get accepted this cycle, I cannot imagine how you would be accepted next cycle with worse stats than you already have. I'm not a pro at med school admissions, but I believe that you need to UP your stats your second time around... not the other way around 😉

 

[apumic]

Just noting the lack of continuity.

I think Bannie was responding to my post where I said a 2.0 ought to be the mean in order to most effectively use our current grading scale. The reality is that it's closer to 3.0 at most schools, sometimes even several tenths of a pt higher. I am simply of the opinion that having such a high mean does not really give space for anyone to shine since 4.0s aren't that terribly uncommon. To really provide a good scale for evaluation requires that no one (ideally) maxes out said scale. If a 2.0 were the mean, it would simply make it more possible to evaluate the differences between the strongest students instead of our current system, which basically crams anyone above average as simply "above average" (since the maximum possible value is set so low by comparison with the mean value).

 

[dru2002]

confused by your statement. 😕

You said in one post the mean for exams should be a C and then stated you didn't know the mean should be a 2.0. A C is a 2.0 so the statements didn't agree with each other.

 

[dru2002]

I think Bannie was responding to my post where I said a 2.0 ought to be the mean in order to most effectively use our current grading scale. The reality is that it's closer to 3.0 at most schools, sometimes even several tenths of a pt higher. I am simply of the opinion that having such a high mean does not really give space for anyone to shine since 4.0s aren't that terribly uncommon. To really provide a good scale for evaluation requires that no one (ideally) maxes out said scale. If a 2.0 were the mean, it would simply make it more possible to evaluate the differences between the strongest students instead of our current system, which basically crams anyone above average as simply "above average" (since the maximum possible value is set so low by comparison with the mean value).

Agreed. But mommy and daddy don't want their precious child to be average. So in an effort to appease parents average became a B. Kinda sad but it isn't gonna change anytime soon.

 

[brooklynblunder]

Well if you don't get accepted this cycle, I cannot imagine how you would be accepted next cycle with worse stats than you already have. I'm not a pro at med school admissions, but I believe that you need to UP your stats your second time around... not the other way around 😉

depends on where the OP applied to, i guess?

 

[KeyzerSoze]

I have to strongly, albeit respectfully, disagree. If a B is average then that basically devalues an A. If we have 5 levels of grading, we ought to use all of them. Number of As should equal number failed (Fs) and number above average (B) should equal number below average/marginally pass (D). Cs (passing grades) should go to those who pass okay/satisfactorily. Otherwise, you are basically depriving anyone trying evaluating a student's GPA from the data they actually need. The average GPA ought to be around 2.0 to 2.5 w/ 3.0 being strong and anything above a 3.5 being "very strong." Unfortunately, we live in a culture where everyone feels entitled to good grades and professors who actually follow their syllabi get "in trouble" despite the fact that their syllabi often clearly state "a C will be given for following and satisfactorily fulfilling all stated requirements of this course. Additional effort and achievement above and beyond that required for completion will be required to obtain a B. As will require exemplary achievement, while a D would indicate less than satisfactory work and an F, unsatisfactory work." Yet I have, as a TA, seen many students get by with a B despite unsatisfactory work... and I've utterly failed (i.e., w/ 10% or 20%) some of those students on assignments because they thought they could get by with less than college-level work because the assignment was "minor."

I'm assuming that syllabus you quoted is for some crappy humanities course... The only thing worse than subjective grading is subjective grading with a TA who decides that he's going to singlehandedly undo 40 years of grade inflation.

 

[demayette]

I have to strongly, albeit respectfully, disagree. If a B is average then that basically devalues an A. If we have 5 levels of grading, we ought to use all of them. Number of As should equal number failed (Fs) and number above average (B) should equal number below average/marginally pass (D). Cs (passing grades) should go to those who pass okay/satisfactorily. Otherwise, you are basically depriving anyone trying evaluating a student's GPA from the data they actually need. The average GPA ought to be around 2.0 to 2.5 w/ 3.0 being strong and anything above a 3.5 being "very strong." Unfortunately, we live in a culture where everyone feels entitled to good grades and professors who actually follow their syllabi get "in trouble" despite the fact that their syllabi often clearly state "a C will be given for following and satisfactorily fulfilling all stated requirements of this course. Additional effort and achievement above and beyond that required for completion will be required to obtain a B. As will require exemplary achievement, while a D would indicate less than satisfactory work and an F, unsatisfactory work." Yet I have, as a TA, seen many students get by with a B despite unsatisfactory work... and I've utterly failed (i.e., w/ 10% or 20%) some of those students on assignments because they thought they could get by with less than college-level work because the assignment was "minor."

a "D" is considered passing...did not know that..I thought "C" and above are considered passing , anything below that (D, F) are failing grades... meaning you will have to retake these classes

 

[FlowRate]

It seems to me like the traditional bell curve is a disadvantage to anyone at a school that uses it. In modern post-secondary education, high GPA's are expected. It's a lot like monetary inflation.

 

[apumic]

I'm assuming that syllabus you quoted is for some crappy humanities course... The only thing worse than subjective grading is subjective grading with a TA who decides that he's going to singlehandedly undo 40 years of grade inflation.

Hey someone's gotta do it. I followed the instructor's instructions for requirements. Students didn't. Simple as that (the requirements were very explicit on that assignment -- not subjective at all -- and I actually gave the students a lot of grace because I felt that they had at least tried if they turned something in so I gave grace whenever possible but the reality is that these students were upperclassmen who should have known better; it's also noteworthy that this was a relatively minor assignment worth only a few points, so failing grades mostly were a wakeup call). Grade inflation has to stop if we are to maintain a halfway decent education system. Our country's education system is one of the most inefficient in the world and is terribly ineffective. I agree that one person cannot "undo grade inflation" but at the same time, I think everyone working in that capacity should do their part.

As far as the syllabus goes, I've seen similar syllabi in departments ranging from biology and chemistry to psychology and religion to schools of music. I didn't quote one so much as take elements of syllabi I have seen at multiple mid-ranking public and private institutions in multiple depts and put them together as one. The reality is that we are saying one thing as an educational system when assessing students but do quite another. Sure, postsecondary students "expect" As but that doesn't mean faculty need to give them As. In some sense, I find it a bit offensive as a high-achieving student to not have any difference between near perfect scores across the board and decent scores that were As because the professor gave extra credit on every other problem or question. To me, it's absolutely ridiculous that I could achieve a better-than-perfect score in certain science courses. While it's nice to have so much room for mistakes down the road, I don't think it is good for society as a whole nor for our educational system itself.

a "D" is considered passing...did not know that..I thought "C" and above are considered passing , anything below that (D, F) are failing grades... meaning you will have to retake these classes

At many schools a D in UG is "passing" but won't fulfill certain (i.e., major or minor) requirements. Basically, you have to retake it if it's at all important for graduation. At the same time, it still counts for units at most schools.

 

[mybubbles14]

I applied to medical schools this year, and it looks like I'm not going to be accepted. I'm currently taking very difficult courses required for my major, where 1/2 of the students get C or below. This will definitely decrease my GPA by the time I will reapply next year. Will medical schools understand that I'm taking difficult courses or just look at my senior GPA and think that I'm slacking?

well I guess this is all a mute point now eh? 😎

You've got to have more faith in yourself...how were you saying you weren't going to get accepted when you had outstanding decisions from at LEAST one interview!!!

 

[mrivera]

Applied with GPA Y = Rejection
Applied with GPA Y-x = Rejection
GPA plays a big role in the admission process

 

[wahoo2010]

.

 

[JJMrK]

I think Bannie was responding to my post where I said a 2.0 ought to be the mean in order to most effectively use our current grading scale. The reality is that it's closer to 3.0 at most schools, sometimes even several tenths of a pt higher. I am simply of the opinion that having such a high mean does not really give space for anyone to shine since 4.0s aren't that terribly uncommon. To really provide a good scale for evaluation requires that no one (ideally) maxes out said scale. If a 2.0 were the mean, it would simply make it more possible to evaluate the differences between the strongest students instead of our current system, which basically crams anyone above average as simply "above average" (since the maximum possible value is set so low by comparison with the mean value).

Yeah, I agree with this. 👍

 

[TexasPrincess]

Try an SMP during your year off.

 

[imnastywitit]

u guys are wayyyy too harsh. i genuinely despise this site, and i'm only here for interview info.

With that being said: no, geting a C will not DQ you from a re-application. Neither will a lower gpa. if you apply super early next time, with better EC's, and better interview skills, and to a wide range of schools, you will have a good shot. also schools give you a chance to explain fluctuations in gpa.

also, on what planet are means C in every class? most schools have most classes with a mean of b-/b+. and no a mean of C is not what ought to happen, because admissions committee's will take in the wrong way and you will have a lower chance if you come from that school, despite the means.

this site needs a disclaimer, cuz whenever people post 'what are my chances', they get a reply saying they dont have a chance, and its misinformation.

 

[JJMrK]

u guys are wayyyy too harsh. i genuinely despise this site, and i'm only here for interview info.

With that being said: no, geting a C will not DQ you from a re-application. Neither will a lower gpa. if you apply super early next time, with better EC's, and better interview skills, and to a wide range of schools, you will have a good shot. also schools give you a chance to explain fluctuations in gpa.

also, on what planet are means C in every class? most schools have most classes with a mean of b-/b+. and no a mean of C is not what ought to happen, because admissions committee's will take in the wrong way and you will have a lower chance if you come from that school, despite the means.

this site needs a disclaimer, cuz whenever people post 'what are my chances', they get a reply saying they dont have a chance, and its misinformation.

Not every. But most science classes.

 

[sleepy425]

well I guess this is all a mute point now eh? 😎

You've got to have more faith in yourself...how were you saying you weren't going to get accepted when you had outstanding decisions from at LEAST one interview!!!

I think you mean a moo point. It's like a cow's opinion. It just doesn't matter. It's moo.

 

[mybubbles14]

I think you mean a moo point. It's like a cow's opinion. It just doesn't matter. It's moo.

combine those and we're both right...moot point.

my bad...

 

[mrivera]

.

good point

 

[nabeel76]

The username..

Not sure if the OP will make the correlation between Wahoo and UVA. OP The UVA student body refers to themselves as Wahoo's in addition to Cavaliers. Long story that goes back to some old football game chant.

 

[circulus vitios]

also, on what planet are means C in every class? most schools have most classes with a mean of b-/b+. and no a mean of C is not what ought to happen, because admissions committee's will take in the wrong way and you will have a lower chance if you come from that school, despite the means.

It's the admission committee's fault. A C should be the average grade for a course, but the average GPA for medical school matriculants keeps going up and up with each year. You can't tell me that students are getting smarter every year?