Reasonable costs/fees

[Minnerbelle]

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I was reading through the Banfield thread and got to some of the posts about vets ripping people off and whatnot. As someone who's only been on the client side of things (and not even the one paying) in vet med, I've been pretty fascinated by people's opinions on how much vet services are worth depending on their role in the business (owner, associate, technician, receptionist, manager, client, non-profit, etc...). I've heard of horror stories of legitimately money grubbing vets, but have also heard very unrealistic expectations from everyday people about what vets should charge.

So I thought it might be interesting to poll people on SDN to see what y'all thought were reasonable prices for common things. Include however much an explanation you want (or none at all) for the prices you list, but please indicate what your association with a vet clinic is, and regional location for where you think the price is reasonable. You could just pull that number out of your *****, or you could provide numbers from clinics you work for/go to. I don't really care. Also, I'm leaving the categories pretty broad, so feel free to specify (or not) however much you feel like it. Finally, if you list prices from a real clinic, it would be really cool if you could say how clients often react to those prices or why they're priced the way they are. So what do you think each of the following routine services are worth?

Office visit:
Spay:
Neuter:
Vaccination:
Dental:
Fecal:
Microchip:
Any other thing people often shop around for:

 

[lostbunny]

Office visit: $65
Spay: $350
Neuter: $180
Vaccination: $200
Dental: $300 (?)
Fecal: $50
Microchip: $70
Nail Trim: $25

All fees are in Canadian dollars! These are a round-about from the hospital I worked at!

After working at an emerg hospital I have a new appreciation for it and the associated costs... I also have a new found respect for Pet Insurance and I shall never own a cat/dog/horse without pet insurance ever again!!!

 

[jtom]

Office visit: $32
Spay: $69 (depends on size)
Neuter: $59(depends on size), $183 for equine and includes sedation
Vaccination: $20-32 (depends on vaccination)
Dental: not sure
Fecal: $18
Microchip: Not sure
Nail Trim: $13

We just did an exploratory on friday and it cost them $900.

 

[Whyevernot55]

Based on the prices at the clinic I work at currently - the sx prices aren't super accurate because it is SO variable depending on drug doses/etc, and because I have only a vague idea what they actually are, but there ya go.

Office visit: $47
Spay: cat: $200-250? Big Dog: $400
Neuter: Cat: $150, big dog: $250
Vaccination: $15-$20 depending on vaccine
Dental: No extractions, just cleaning, big dog: $350; cat mouth WITH extractions: $500-800, depending
Fecal: $19
Microchip: $42
Toenail Trim: $17

 

[CatPartay]

I have to tell you what the hospital I work at charges, I think they are nuts but people pay it.. (not happily)
Exam-$65
Spay/Neuter- about $500-600 (includes all.. hospitilization, anitbiotics etc.) CRAZY I know
Dentals around $1000 (Againa CRAZY)
Nail Trim $20
I am in NY but still it is ridiculous, ad trust me my pay is horrible! I am only there for the experience and hours.

 

[CatPartay]

I forgot- all vaccines a HW test, fecal -all the basics every year is about 400-500 depending on what vaccines the pet gets.

 

[CatPartay]

Microchip-67
Fecal 47
Hw test 47

 

[Bearby]

Where I work now, in a nicer area of Northwest Florida...although bordering the "ghetto." We rarely get complaints about cost from people who are coming in for these services. However the owner is very nice and will discount of give free services sometimes and the people that she gives those to initially are the ones who complain later about cost. Lesson learned, don't be overly nice because people will try to take advantage of you.

Office visit: $37, $25 if they're getting vaccines
Spay: ~$100 - $200 (depending on size)
Neuter: ~$80 - $150 (depending on size)
Vaccination: Between $15 and $27 per vaccine
Dental: $150 - $350
Fecal: $28
Heartworm test: $32
Microchip: $40

I previously worked in a more country area of Northwest Florida where a lot of times dogs were viewed as just dogs. We had several complaints about cost, especially for dentals, but I totally understand it because for the area, the prices are ridiculous

Office visit: $39
Spay: $125 - $250
Neuter: $89 - $200
Vaccination: $20-$25 per vaccine
Dental: $350 - $800
Fecal: $25
Heartworm test: $35
Microchip: $42

They have now started doing packages for vaccines, hwt, and fecal for $99.

 

[lareinesoleil]

I'm in WA state (not Seattle). Most of the clinics around my immediate area charge about these same fees. The ones in more rural or poorer areas are cheaper. The VCA hospital is more expensive, or was last I checked.

Office visit: 46.50
Spay: ~250 (more for big dogs, less for cats)
Neuter: ~200 (ditto)
Vaccination: 16 for dogs, 22-25 for cats (different kind of vxns)
Dental: 230 for a dog, 190 for a cat, unless there are a lot of extractions
Fecal: 32
Microchip: 48
Nail Trim: 13 (or included in office visit)
Bloodwork: in-house 95, sent to lab 110
Heartworm Test: 18

I hear the most complaining, far and away, about spay/neuter prices. I think it's because the spay/neuter has been devalued in people's minds by "low-cost" spay/neuter clinics at shelters, and that regular clinics may have different protocols (different anesthetic, more things included, etc) that cause it to cost more.

 

[krist]

I work in a very high-volume clinic in St Louis, and from what I've heard our prices are pretty cheap for vaccines and packages and stuff, but i think our hospitalization and non routine surgeries are more expensive.

Office visit: $40 with an appointment, $60 unscheduled/emergency (we are open 24/7)
Spay: $100-200 (does not include meds to go home or pre-anesthetic testing)
Neuter: $89 - $175 (same)
Vaccination: $18-34 per vaccine
Dental: Grade 1, no extractions, for a patient under 5 (no pre-anesthetic testing required) starts at 89, but can go all the way up to 600-700 for really bad teeth and lots of extractions
Fecal: $16
Heartworm test: $29
Microchip: $38
ICU care: starts at $175 a day i think depends on number of treatments
Non-routine surgeries are usually starting around $1000 (emergency OHE, GDV, exploratory, etc) orthopedics start around $1300
We have annual healthcare packages that are $60 and include exam, rabies and combo vaccines, hwt, felv vax and fecal
Our expanded annual healthcare thats for older pets includes annual healthcare plus bloodwork and urinalysis for $172

 

[das257]

Prices for a 24-hour small animal emergency hospital on Long Island, NY. From what I've heard (from a number of disgruntled clients), we're one of the most expensive hospitals around. However, we're one of the few hospitals that's open 24 hours a day.

Office visit: $72; $135 after hours/emergency
Spay:~$500
Neuter: ~$350
Pre-anesthetic bloodwork: ~$100
Vaccination: $35
Dental: $500 - $1200 (depending on amount/severity of extractions)
Fecal: $39
Microchip: $75
HW Test: $80
4DX: $95
Nail trim: $20
ICU: $105/night just to be in the ICU, everything else has a separate charge
Non-routine surgeries: $1200 - $3000+
Orthopedics: $1500+

 

[CatPartay]

Prices for a 24-hour small animal emergency hospital on Long Island, NY. From what I've heard (from a number of disgruntled clients), we're one of the most expensive hospitals around. However, we're one of the few hospitals that's open 24 hours a day.

Office visit: $72; $135 after hours/emergency
Spay:~$500
Neuter: ~$350
Pre-anesthetic bloodwork: ~$100
Vaccination: $35
Dental: $500 - $1200 (depending on amount/severity of extractions)
Fecal: $39
Microchip: $75

HW Test: $80
4DX: $95
We are around the same prices prob a little more expensive.. same area
Nail trim: $20
ICU: $105/night just to be in the ICU, everything else has a separate charge
Non-routine surgeries: $1200 - $3000+
Orthopedics: $1500+

We are around the same price maybe even more.. same area.

 

[jlindp]

I work as a technician at a sm. animal/exotic clinic in a moderately affluent area of Dallas. I find the prices to be a bit pricey, but not many clients complain--I guess they can afford it!

Office visit: $56 (very thorough exam)
Spay: $260-370
Neuter: $190-280
Dental: $350 (includes radiographs of teeth)
Vaccination: $17-26
Fecal: $24
Microchip: $32

The clinic I shadow at is in an extremely posh area of Plano. The vet is laser surgery certified, so he uses the laser for almost everything. Prices are almost double than what I posted above. For example, we just performed a repair on a luxating patella on a ~5lb Chihuahua and it was over $1800!

 

[david594]

I work as a technician at a sm. animal/exotic clinic in a moderately affluent area of Dallas. I find the prices to be a bit pricey, but not many clients complain--I guess they can afford it! But I'll post employee prices to show how much the mark up is.

I'd suggest you edit your post to remove those "employee" prices as they dont accurately reflect what the "mark up" is as they dont factor in any labor or overhead costs.

Not that they are going to be any surprise to those who have worked in a clinic before, but I think they could give casual browsers bad information when they come across this thread googling "My vet rips me off".

 

[NittanyKitty]

Suburban, six doctor, small-animal clinic in PA.

Office visit: $45
Spay: Varies based on size but ~$350
Neuter: Varies based on size but ~$275
Vaccination: $20-$24
Dental: Varies based on extractions, time, etc. but ~$300-$500
Fecal: $18
Microchip: $40 including registration

 

[Jamr0ckin]

4 DVM practice in East TN, we are the "most expensive" in town. Note: all our surgeries require pre-anesthetic bloodwork and analgesics


Office visit: $38.50
Spay: Cat - $210 50lb dog - $275
Neuter: Cat - $170 50lb dog - $250
Vaccination: Annual visit (3 vaccines plus exam) Dog or cat $91
Dental: Grade 1, no radiographs or extractions - $300
Fecal: $31
Microchip: $55
Nail trim: $10
4Dx HW or Feline Triple test: $48
Ultrasound, full abdominal: $203
Radiograph, 2-view: $115

 

[alwayslistening]

What about LA fees? The clinic I am at now charges for farm calls based on zones 1-3, and the fees go from 50 -> 54 -> 58. Does anyone know if that seems reasonable, too expensive, or should they be charging more?

 

[jtom]

What about LA fees? The clinic I am at now charges for farm calls based on zones 1-3, and the fees go from 50 -> 54 -> 58. Does anyone know if that seems reasonable, too expensive, or should they be charging more?

We charge $49 for the trip charge and that is used for about a 80 mile radius from the clinic, then we charge more if farther. $183 for castration w/ sedation; $69 teeth float plus $22 sedation, $100 x-rays, vaccinations varies between $20 for rabies to 36.50 for EWT/WN, $32 coggins.

 

[frozen_canadian]

I previously worked in a more country area of Northwest Florida where a lot of times dogs were viewed as just dogs. We had several complaints about cost, especially for dentals, but I totally understand it because for the area, the prices are ridiculous
Office visit: $39
Spay: $125 - $250
Neuter: $89 - $200
Vaccination: $20-$25 per vaccine
Dental: $350 - $800
Fecal: $25
Heartworm test: $35
Microchip: $42

They have now started doing packages for vaccines, hwt, and fecal for $99.

Sigh...come back in 5 years and read your statement again. If you think the above prices are ridiculous, you frankly have no idea how much it costs to run a clinic. I'm getting into management duties at my current clinic and the overhead costs of running a hospital are mind blowing. Plus these new grads are demanding 60,000+ per year - now thats ridiculous... (theres sarcasm in that last sentence btw) 😳

 

[libster06]

Sigh...come back in 5 years and read your statement again. If you think the above prices are ridiculous, you frankly have no idea how much it costs to run a clinic. I'm getting into management duties at my current clinic and the overhead costs of running a hospital are mind blowing.

It's true.... and furthermore the general public REALLY has no idea how much vet expenses are. No one ever walks into a regular doctors office and bargains or argues with them about the cost of treatment, but interestingly enough people have no problem walking into a vet clinic prepared to b*tch and bargain for a free/discounted handout. I am continuously, on a daily basis, amazed at the number of people who come in with an animal that has been having vomiting and diarrhea for a week straight and just enough money to cover the exam fee, then are absolutely astonished when their treatment estimate is $300 (blood work, fluids, anti- V/D meds, etc.).

 

[Bearby]

Sigh...come back in 5 years and read your statement again. If you think the above prices are ridiculous, you frankly have no idea how much it costs to run a clinic. I'm getting into management duties at my current clinic and the overhead costs of running a hospital are mind blowing. Plus these new grads are demanding 60,000+ per year - now thats ridiculous... (theres sarcasm in that last sentence btw) 😳

We were actually given a break down of the hospital's costs at a staff meeting, and nothing in it made it seem as though the dental prices were fair. I think that the mark up on vaccines and meds are reasonable, don't have a problem with spay/neuter costs, but to charge 2-3x more for a dental than all of the neighboring clinics, and even the clinics in the better areas of town is just insane. A cat declaw for front 2 is ~$600, mass removal ranges from $400-800. I just don't see how it can be justified when everywhere else is able to do it for significantly less and not be struggling as much as this particular clinic is. However, a major reason the clinic is suffering is because of some underhanded moves by the owner which I will not delve into on a public forum.

 

[Cautionary Tail]

$500-$1200 for a dental? 😱 Yeesh.

I think I dropped $120-ish the last time one of mine went in for a scaling. The last practice I worked for often charged $300-$600 for dentals (no radiographs, bloodwork not included but required for animals over seven years of age)... people did complain. We were quite a bit pricier than other clinics in the area.

 

[Cautionary Tail]

I have to tell you what the hospital I work at charges, I think they are nuts but people pay it.. (not happily)
Exam-$65
Spay/Neuter- about $500-600 (includes all.. hospitilization, anitbiotics etc.) CRAZY I know
Dentals around $1000 (Againa CRAZY)
Nail Trim $20
I am in NY but still it is ridiculous, ad trust me my pay is horrible! I am only there for the experience and hours.

I don't get charging regular clients exorbitant prices for nail trims. (We did the same where I worked.) With a few notable exceptions, most of these were quick, relatively easy jobs.

When I worked alone on off Saturdays (basically just selling food, meds, and supplies) I always trimmed regulars' nails for free. My boss probably would've been incensed, but I couldn't justify asking someone to fork over $17 because I spent all of thirty seconds trimming some placid old cat's nails... especially when there really wasn't anything else for me to do.

(Bad CT. Bad, bad.)

So, yeah... I view it as more of a courtesy thing. Also, if it's free, people are inclined to do it more frequently. Which means I won't encounter so many grossly overgrown large black dog nails. (I kinda hate trimming grossly overgrown large black dog nails.)

 

[eventualeventer]

At the VMTH, they quoted me $1300-1400 for a dental w/some extractions for my cat. It ended up being 5 extractions and between $900 and $1K before my discount, a couple hundred after my (sadly disappearing this summer) discount. That did not include the bloodwork, since she had already had recent bloodwork (sigh, expensive cat). While certainly not chump change, I don't think it was out of line given that she got top-notch care, including full mouth x-rays, the highest standard of care for anesthesia (and someone qualified to monitor anesthesia) and pain management, and attention from a board-certified veterinary dentist. While I certainly think that you don't have to board-certified dentist to do a fairly routine dental w/extractions, I would be hesitant to take my cat to a place that only charged $100 for a regular dental (no extractions), since I would wonder whether they were cutting corners or practicing 20-year-old medicine. Certainly, there are practices that manage to do good medicine and not charge much for dentals, but it's often by using dentals (since they are a "shopped item") as loss leaders so as not to scare away clients. The actual value, IMO, is much more than $100. Similarly, the actual value of a spay - which is major abdominal surgery - done with a high standard of care is much greater than many vets charge, because if they charged what it were really worth then fewer clients would pay for it as an elective procedure.

For equine work, when I was last working in private practice the farm call charge was around $85, flat fee. They were not making much money on farm call fees, with the price of gas/truck maintenance and the fact that you are still paying the vet even on days that a third or even half of their time is spent on the road.

 

[Cautionary Tail]

I'll be honest... dentistry is probably one area where I wouldn't be inclined to shell out for a specialist, especially if we're just talking about your standard scaling. I'm a broke student, and one of mine has some serious issues that require specialist intervention, so I have to pick my battles.

That said, I don't have a problem with pricey services if the client is actually getting what they pay for... but $600 for an uncomplicated scaling with no frills (i.e. "20 year old medicine") strikes me as pretty extreme. I have no idea what these other clinics are offering, but where I worked, you weren't getting any extras for that price.

 

[sunshinevet]

Something I find interesting/alarming is the notion of "the price includes/doesnt include analgesia" as though it is an optional add on. I don't understand the idea of adding analgesia as a seperate charge because analgesia SHOULD be a standard part of surgery. Period. If the animals not getting analgesia, it shouldn't be having surgery.

I've not come across this in Australia, only heard about it happening in practices in the states. Not to say it doesn't happen here. How common do you think this is?

Also, I would have no idea how much a faecal sample would cost. Given the fact we are actually generally over-worming our pets, we run maybe 1-2 faecal flotations a year. And they pretty much never show anything. Do you guys ever feel like you're running a faecal for no reason?

 

[Whyevernot55]

Something I find interesting/alarming is the notion of "the price includes/doesnt include analgesia" as though it is an optional add on. I don't understand the idea of adding analgesia as a seperate charge because analgesia SHOULD be a standard part of surgery. Period. If the animals not getting analgesia, it shouldn't be having surgery.

I've not come across this in Australia, only heard about it happening in practices in the states. Not to say it doesn't happen here. How common do you think this is?

This. The clinic I work at requires pre-an BW and pain meds on all surgery patients. There's a reason it's in the estimate and is never optional if the pet needs it. Most young, healthy animals get the standard in-house Idexx panel + lytes the day of. Senior animals or pets with health issues get the full CBC/Chem profile sent out to the lab ahead of time. For the most part I find that our clients are understanding about why we require it, and grateful that we do such a good job with pain management in our surgical patients, but it IS common practice in a number of other clinics to list the BW and pain meds as "options" on the estimate. Sorry, but if you're cutting it open, I'm pretty sure it's going to hurt afterwards! We still get the people who insist that their pet doesn't feel pain, but either they pay our prices or they go elsewhere.

 

[StartingoverVet]

Something I find interesting/alarming is the notion of "the price includes/doesnt include analgesia" as though it is an optional add on. I don't understand the idea of adding analgesia as a seperate charge because analgesia SHOULD be a standard part of surgery. Period. If the animals not getting analgesia, it shouldn't be having surgery.

I don't see the problem. It is not an "option" for the client to decide if they want or not, it is just a way of accounting for the services provided. From a management analysis point of view, it is much more beneficial to break out services as specifically as possible in order to evaluate where the clinic makes money or not. It might make less sense if analgesia was only used for surgeries, but there are many other services where it may be necessary (x-ray etc).

Also, from a "marketing" point of view, it can more understandable to a client that a they have received a high bill because many services were provided (surgery, blood work, anesthesia, meds, etc), than if they get one lump sum and they wonder why the hell it is so expensive.

 

[das257]

$500-$1200 for a dental? 😱 Yeesh.

I think I dropped $120-ish the last time one of mine went in for a scaling. The last practice I worked for often charged $300-$600 for dentals (no radiographs, bloodwork not included but required for animals over seven years of age)... people did complain. We were quite a bit pricier than other clinics in the area.

I definitely don't pretend to think our prices are reasonable. We're one of the most expensive hospitals in a fairly affluent area of Long Island, NY. The catch -- not that I think this completely justifies our prices -- is that all of our techs are licensed and we're staffed 24 hours/day. But to try to make the price of a dental a little less offensive, that ridiculous price includes non-optional pre-an bloodwork, pain meds and a full set of dental rads for every cat/dog having a dental.

 

[Cautionary Tail]

I definitely don't pretend to think our prices are reasonable. We're one of the most expensive hospitals in a fairly affluent area of Long Island, NY. The catch -- not that I think this completely justifies our prices -- is that all of our techs are licensed and we're staffed 24 hours/day. But to try to make the price of a dental a little less offensive, that ridiculous price includes non-optional pre-an bloodwork, pain meds and a full set of dental rads for every cat/dog having a dental.

That's understandable.

I view 24-hour practices as comparable to the ER. You're paying to staff the place 24/7... and finding people to work overnights isn't cheap.

 

[superkelpie]

3 DVM VCA in Texas
Office visit: $49
Spay:$200-300 (includes preop, IV, pain meds)
Vaccination: $20-40, depending on the vx
Dental:~$240 (same as spay)
Fecal: $50
Nail trim: $20/included in exam

I find that the most overpriced things are flea/tick and heartworm preventives, but we price-match online😀


A $600 spay, though?! No wonder we have an overpopulation problem... but really, with low-cost spay/neuter clinics I'm surprised we get so many s/n surgeries at the clinic.

 

[dyachei]

I really don't see the issue for somewhat expensive dentals. Don't forget that ideally, there is monitoring equipment and the salaries of both techs and doctors involved.

 

[LetItSnow]

I don't get charging regular clients exorbitant prices for nail trims.

At my clinic, nail trims are complimentary for animals under anesthesia, and charged a tech fee otherwise.

I can see charging for them .... enough of the animals require multiple people for a nail trim (restrainer, trimmer...) that it costs you something to deliver the service. You could do it free for the 'easy' animals, but then you might get into an issue with Client X wondering why they have to pay when Client Y doesn't. I suppose you could explain, but ... just seems easier to charge for it.

@sunshinevet: Regarding analgesia for surgery, and in addition to what SOV said: at least one reason to charge it out separately is because not every procedure calls for the same type, or same degree, of pain relief. A basic dental scaling doesn't require much. A dental with extractions requires more. Castration, not so much. A TTA with the knee jacked open, quite a bit more. Etc. By breaking those costs out, you can tailor the cost of the overall procedure to the client's need.

 

[lareinesoleil]

At my clinic, nail trims are complimentary for animals under anesthesia, and charged a tech fee otherwise.

I can see charging for them .... enough of the animals require multiple people for a nail trim (restrainer, trimmer...) that it costs you something to deliver the service. You could do it free for the 'easy' animals, but then you might get into an issue with Client X wondering why they have to pay when Client Y doesn't. I suppose you could explain, but ... just seems easier to charge for it.

@sunshinevet: Regarding analgesia for surgery, and in addition to what SOV said: at least one reason to charge it out separately is because not every procedure calls for the same type, or same degree, of pain relief. A basic dental scaling doesn't require much. A dental with extractions requires more. Castration, not so much. A TTA with the knee jacked open, quite a bit more. Etc. By breaking those costs out, you can tailor the cost of the overall procedure to the client's need.

Our hospital splits the difference on this issue...a pain injection that lasts about 24 hours is included, and then if they want anything beyond that it's additional. That way, the pet gets something that gets them through the worst of it even if the people "decline" additional pain medication. And for some procedures, like neuters (and even spays on the tougher dogs), that's usually enough anyway.

I've given people free nail trims before, but most people that come into a vet clinic for a nail trim come here for a reason - they can't do it, or groomers refuse, etc. As LetItSnow says, even if we have a relatively "easy" time, that's because there's a minimum of two experienced people doing it. And some of them are straight terrifying - I've gotten my most serious bites/scratches doing nail trims. Ours are free with an exam or any procedure requiring anesthetic, as well.

 

[eventualeventer]

SOV, sunshinevet might have been referring to the fact that there are still veterinarians practing in the U.S. who are "analgesia optional" and others who only stock Rimadyl (for dogs AND cats) and butorphanol as their sole analgesics, even for painful procedures.

 

[Felixor90]

These are the prices that my cat's vet charges.

Office visit: $0 (Which is why he has so many customers.)
Spay: $150 (Don't know why anyone would pay this much since Miami Animal Services has low cost spaying and neutering priced at $30 for dogs and even less for cats.)
Neuter: Same as spaying.
Vaccination: $10-$30
Dental: N/A
Fecal: $15
Microchip: $30 (Shelter offers this for $10)
HW test: $50
Flea/tick meds (the pills, not the drops): $17 per pill, which lasts a month, or $69 for a box of 6 pills.



I sometimes wonder how he manages to stay in business with both his kids (which are also vets and work for him) but his low cost of basic procedures plus the no visit fee draws in a lot of customers. I recommend him to everyone that adopts an animal from the shelter since he's great for basic things like checkups and vaccines. He doesn't offer more advanced procedures though. On top of that, he only carries the expensive meds that burn a hole in your pocket, so the times that I took my cat in for actual illnesses, my wallet felt a great hit. If he'd carry more generic meds, he'd be perfect.

 

[frozen_canadian]

These are the prices that my cat's vet charges.

Office visit: $0 (Which is why he has so many customers.)
Spay: $150 (Don't know why anyone would pay this much since Miami Animal Services has low cost spaying and neutering priced at $30 for dogs and even less for cats.)
Neuter: Same as spaying.
Vaccination: $10-$30
Dental: N/A
Fecal: $15
Microchip: $30 (Shelter offers this for $10)
HW test: $50
Flea/tick meds (the pills, not the drops): $17 per pill, which lasts a month, or $69 for a box of 6 pills.



I sometimes wonder how he manages to stay in business with both his kids (which are also vets and work for him) but his low cost of basic procedures plus the no visit fee draws in a lot of customers. I recommend him to everyone that adopts an animal from the shelter since he's great for basic things like checkups and vaccines. He doesn't offer more advanced procedures though. On top of that, he only carries the expensive meds that burn a hole in your pocket, so the times that I took my cat in for actual illnesses, my wallet felt a great hit. If he'd carry more generic meds, he'd be perfect.

I realize that the $0 office visit is a marketing ploy but it offends me. In a big way. It gives off the impression that our time is free and service has no value. While it may work for this guy I think it undervalues us as professionals. Imagine a GP not charging for his time. Wouldn't happen.

 

[Minnerbelle]

These are the prices that my cat's vet charges.

Office visit: $0 (Which is why he has so many customers.)
Spay: $150 (Don't know why anyone would pay this much since Miami Animal Services has low cost spaying and neutering priced at $30 for dogs and even less for cats.)
Neuter: Same as spaying.
Vaccination: $10-$30
Dental: N/A
Fecal: $15
Microchip: $30 (Shelter offers this for $10)
HW test: $50
Flea/tick meds (the pills, not the drops): $17 per pill, which lasts a month, or $69 for a box of 6 pills.



I sometimes wonder how he manages to stay in business with both his kids (which are also vets and work for him) but his low cost of basic procedures plus the no visit fee draws in a lot of customers. I recommend him to everyone that adopts an animal from the shelter since he's great for basic things like checkups and vaccines. He doesn't offer more advanced procedures though. On top of that, he only carries the expensive meds that burn a hole in your pocket, so the times that I took my cat in for actual illnesses, my wallet felt a great hit. If he'd carry more generic meds, he'd be perfect.

Seriously... where is this guy making money? I'd imagine that if the office visit was free, then a majority of appointments would be for wellness exams (or is that not the case?). It seems like if anything, he would be losing money from doing wellness exams (even with vaccinations, fecals, etc...). You say that he only carries expensive pharmaceuticals, but isn't there a law now that all vets must provide scripts for free so that the clients can go and buy them elsewhere should they choose to? Do vets have to provide an option for generics if it's possible too?

I agree that this pricing scheme devalues the profession too, but holy hell! Where is the money coming from to support all 3 docs + staff + overhead? Or is the vet clinic just a storefront for a money laundering business?

 

[frozen_canadian]

Or is the vet clinic just a storefront for a money laundering business?

Oohhh...good thought. 🙂

 

[Minnerbelle]

Oohhh...good thought. 🙂

It IS Miami afterall. All I can think of when I hear Miami is Michael Weston.

 

[sunshinevet]

I don't see the problem. It is not an "option" for the client to decide if they want or not, it is just a way of accounting for the services provided. From a management analysis point of view, it is much more beneficial to break out services as specifically as possible in order to evaluate where the clinic makes money or not. It might make less sense if analgesia was only used for surgeries, but there are many other services where it may be necessary (x-ray etc).

Also, from a "marketing" point of view, it can more understandable to a client that a they have received a high bill because many services were provided (surgery, blood work, anesthesia, meds, etc), than if they get one lump sum and they wonder why the hell it is so expensive.

At my clinic, nail trims are complimentary for animals under anesthesia, and charged a tech fee otherwise.

I can see charging for them .... enough of the animals require multiple people for a nail trim (restrainer, trimmer...) that it costs you something to deliver the service. You could do it free for the 'easy' animals, but then you might get into an issue with Client X wondering why they have to pay when Client Y doesn't. I suppose you could explain, but ... just seems easier to charge for it.

@sunshinevet: Regarding analgesia for surgery, and in addition to what SOV said: at least one reason to charge it out separately is because not every procedure calls for the same type, or same degree, of pain relief. A basic dental scaling doesn't require much. A dental with extractions requires more. Castration, not so much. A TTA with the knee jacked open, quite a bit more. Etc. By breaking those costs out, you can tailor the cost of the overall procedure to the client's need.

SOV, sunshinevet might have been referring to the fact that there are still veterinarians practing in the U.S. who are "analgesia optional" and others who only stock Rimadyl (for dogs AND cats) and butorphanol as their sole analgesics, even for painful procedures.

Eventualeventer hit the nail on the head - I also don't understand is saying "oh, our spey is $150 but the analgesia is an extra $30" as opposed to just showing analgesia on the bill. I worked for a vet who used to charge a set price for speys but then there would be an itemised list underneath of what that included, which allowed for our stock control.

After 6 years working in clinics (and 3.5 at a speciality surgery practice) I fully understand that different levels of analgesia are required and therefore different costs. 😉 What I don't understand is why you would ever even make it sound like an optional extra/have it as one (ie, saying your spey is $150 but analgesia is an extra $30 and they HAVE to have it is going to make a lot of clients argue with you, just say your spey is $180 and show the analgesia on the bill).

Reasonable prices here are so different that I'll post them, but definately take them with a grain of salt (and i'll post whats involved because I think they might be a bit different).

Consultation(20min) - $65
Vaccination (DHP+KC/FeLV+F3, + FULL consultation) - $95-$110
Spey (depends on size, includes injection of pain relief, 3 days previcox tablets for dog castrates/speys and free post op) - Between $180-300
Dental (doesnt include pre-ga or IVF, does include pain relief and AB's) - $300-$600 (keep in mind we dont tend to do just scales and polishes, pretty much everything needs extractions)
Microchip - $55
Pre-ga bloods(CBC, electrolytes,6-panel IDEXX) - $95
IVF for Sx - $65

I personally have a bit of a moral dilemma when it comes to IVF with Sx. Sure, if its a big long surgery, charge them for it, but I do like the idea of all speys (esp dog speys) being of IVF - the first practice I worked at did this, and I just thought it made it a nicer, safer surgery. And I know hardly ever something goes wrong, but those moments when you do hit a big bleeder and I want to correct the hypovolemia, its nice that you already have a line in! I kind of see it as part of a safe protocol, and I dislike how many surgeries we do at my practice now without them. The first practice I worked at had it as part of the surgery fee, instead of charging seperately, so if i ran a practice thats what I'd do.

 

[LetItSnow]

After 6 years working in clinics (and 3.5 at a speciality surgery practice) I fully understand that different levels of analgesia are required and therefore different costs. 😉 What I don't understand is why you would ever even make it sound like an optional extra/have it as one (ie, saying your spey is $150 but analgesia is an extra $30 and they HAVE to have it is going to make a lot of clients argue with you, just say your spey is $180 and show the analgesia on the bill).

Sorry, SSV, I didn't mean for that to sound as ... condescending, I guess ... as it did. I still stand by the point, though: even for the same procedure the analgesic may be different from case to case. I know you're much further along in your experience than I am, but even I've seen TTAs with one approach to pain management, and other TTAs with a different approach. Breaking it out allows for that. I can't say I've seen spays done without basically the same approach to pain control, though, so I take your point....

I agree with you that it shouldn't be presented as optional.

Speaking as a client, I know that I like to see things itemized as much as possible, just because I want to see what pieces make up my wallet-busting bill. It makes it psychologically a little easier to manage. 🙂

 

[sunshinevet]

Sorry, SSV, I didn't mean for that to sound as ... condescending, I guess ... as it did. I still stand by the point, though: even for the same procedure the analgesic may be different from case to case. I know you're much further along in your experience than I am, but even I've seen TTAs with one approach to pain management, and other TTAs with a different approach. Breaking it out allows for that. I can't say I've seen spays done without basically the same approach to pain control, though, so I take your point....

I agree with you that it shouldn't be presented as optional.

Speaking as a client, I know that I like to see things itemized as much as possible, just because I want to see what pieces make up my wallet-busting bill. It makes it psychologically a little easier to manage. 🙂

For sure for a procedure such as a TTA, analgesia makes sense to make a seperate charge on the bill, and it might vary, from drug used to quantity required. But the price of a TTA varies from case to case anyway, depending on the size of the plate needed/number of screws needed/length of the anaesthesia etc. Few vets tend to have a set price for TTA's (or similar surgeries, ie fracture repairs etc) - instead they would likely quote an estimate of costs they expect the overall surgery to be in the range of. However, speys/neuters don't tend to be like that - almost all practices have a set price that its going to be, barring major events. So I don't understand why you wouldn't just have analgesia included in your set price for that weight range, instead of actually billing it seperately. It makes perfect sense for me to show it on the bill - it doesnt make sense for me to quote it as a seperate, compulsory charge. (Ie, your spey is $150 but they then need to agree to analgesia at an extra $30, instead of the spey just being $180)

And as I said in my original post, I do feel that making it a seperate, quoteable charge makes it something that clients may target to avoid, just like they avoid pre-ga bloods or other addition, optional charges. To me, adequate pain control should not ever be made to sound like an optional extra; it should be something thats happening as part of the overall price of surgery.

 

[breenie]

Just to add...

The clinic I work for does what sunshine mentioned and "itemizes" everything that totals to the "spay cost". So it would say like, "Spay: $300" on the estimate, but then have "anesthesia: X, abx: X, ecollar: X" etc underneath in a list.

Also they charge more for difficult nail trims. Not sure how I feel about that.

 

[Felixor90]

Seriously... where is this guy making money? I'd imagine that if the office visit was free, then a majority of appointments would be for wellness exams (or is that not the case?). It seems like if anything, he would be losing money from doing wellness exams (even with vaccinations, fecals, etc...). You say that he only carries expensive pharmaceuticals, but isn't there a law now that all vets must provide scripts for free so that the clients can go and buy them elsewhere should they choose to? Do vets have to provide an option for generics if it's possible too?

I agree that this pricing scheme devalues the profession too, but holy hell! Where is the money coming from to support all 3 docs + staff + overhead? Or is the vet clinic just a storefront for a money laundering business?

I don't know exactly how he makes money but I know it's not off the wellness checkups. He's s smart guy though, and I know he takes advantage of certain endorcements from some pharmaceutical companies. He also gets discounts on a lot of supplies. The business is on its 3rd generation of owners and they have kept good bonds with suppliers that have also been around for many years. They also have referal contracts with a couple of emergency hospitals.

As for the lowering the value of the profession, I will have to respectfully disagree. His business is located in one of the worst areas of Miami. A lot of his clients are people who cannot afford the expensive fees that most Miami animal clinics charge. I live in a nicer part of the city and the clinic 2 blocks from my house charges $100 just for walking through the door, not to mention the outrageous costs for basic things like deworming a cat. Until I found the other vet, I would have to pay around $400 for a simple checkup, and that's IF my cat was healthy. I'm a full time student and so that money was not easily obtained.

Now, before you get on the "then don't have a pet" wagon, know that I took this mentality after my last dog died. I just finished paying the $4000 loan I had to take to try to save her life. The 4k payed for surgery, which I view as a more than fair cost. I decided not to have any more animals until one day a cat showed up dying at my front foor. Leaving him to die was not an option, and neither was spending more money that I didn't have. I found the vet that I talked about and was able to save the cat with a simple deworming and some IV fluids. The cat was dying from lack of nutrition due to a bad case of worms - something that can be fixed easily, yet the clinic nearby wanted thousands for the effort while the other vet charged about $100. Guess which vet allowed me to save the life of that poor cat. Guess which vet allowed me to adopt the cat (taking it to overpopulated shelter is almost a death sentence) and afford to keep it healthy.

My point is, where you see a vet that is lowering your potential income, I see one that cares enough about animals and their owners to not charge ridiculous prices on basic things. We're not talking about complicated procedures here. He kindly refers emergency cases to a proper hospital. He's ensuring that people like me can take their pet to get their yearly checkup without paying as if the pet were undergoing surgery. If the general opinion is that taking your animal to the vet should be a luxury, then you all are gonna hate me if I ever open up a practice. To me, animals come first.

 

[sunshinevet]

My point is, where you see a vet that is lowering your potential income, I see one that cares enough about animals and their owners to not charge ridiculous prices on basic things. We're not talking about complicated procedures here. He kindly refers emergency cases to a proper hospital. He's ensuring that people like me can take their pet to get their yearly checkup without paying as if the pet were undergoing surgery. If the general opinion is that taking your animal to the vet should be a luxury, then you all are gonna hate me if I ever open up a practice. To me, animals come first.

I think your arguement would hold better if vets were paid better. You can hardly claim we are adequately reimbursed for our knowledge, expertise, time and care. The vast majority of vets are hardly charging owners ridiculous things - the odd one might, but the majority are barely charging enough to pay themselves and their employees a mediocre wage. I absolutely agree that individual circumstances should be taken into account - but i also DO think that more and more pet owners need to take responsibility for the actual, fair costs of their animals healthcare.

Absolutely I care about animals. I think every person here does, and we will all continue to prioritise them as much as we can throughout our careers. But to be honest, me EATING needs to come first. Paying off my schooling, and providing shelter, food and clothing for my family will come first. I struggle to think of anyone else in the community who is asked to provide services so below their value, or for free, as consistantly as veterinarians. Yes, I want to save as many animals as I possibly can, and help as many owners and farmers as I possibly can. But it is not unfair, uncaring, or heartless, for me to expect adequate compensation for doing such a thing. And it is not unfair, uncaring or heartless, for me to expect adequate forethought from pet owners before taking on what is actually a huge responsibility.

 

[StartingoverVet]

I think your arguement would hold better if vets were paid better. You can hardly claim we are adequately reimbursed for our knowledge, expertise, time and care. The vast majority of vets are hardly charging owners ridiculous things - the odd one might, but the majority are barely charging enough to pay themselves and their employees a mediocre wage. I absolutely agree that individual circumstances should be taken into account - but i also DO think that more and more pet owners need to take responsibility for the actual, fair costs of their animals healthcare.

Absolutely I care about animals. I think every person here does, and we will all continue to prioritise them as much as we can throughout our careers. But to be honest, me EATING needs to come first. Paying off my schooling, and providing shelter, food and clothing for my family will come first. I struggle to think of anyone else in the community who is asked to provide services so below their value, or for free, as consistantly as veterinarians. Yes, I want to save as many animals as I possibly can, and help as many owners and farmers as I possibly can. But it is not unfair, uncaring, or heartless, for me to expect adequate compensation for doing such a thing. And it is not unfair, uncaring or heartless, for me to expect adequate forethought from pet owners before taking on what is actually a huge responsibility.

👍

 

[Whyevernot55]

I don't know exactly how he makes money but I know it's not off the wellness checkups. He's s smart guy though, and I know he takes advantage of certain endorcements from some pharmaceutical companies. He also gets discounts on a lot of supplies. The business is on its 3rd generation of owners and they have kept good bonds with suppliers that have also been around for many years. They also have referal contracts with a couple of emergency hospitals.

As for the lowering the value of the profession, I will have to respectfully disagree. His business is located in one of the worst areas of Miami. A lot of his clients are people who cannot afford the expensive fees that most Miami animal clinics charge. I live in a nicer part of the city and the clinic 2 blocks from my house charges $100 just for walking through the door, not to mention the outrageous costs for basic things like deworming a cat. Until I found the other vet, I would have to pay around $400 for a simple checkup, and that's IF my cat was healthy. I'm a full time student and so that money was not easily obtained.

Now, before you get on the "then don't have a pet" wagon, know that I took this mentality after my last dog died. I just finished paying the $4000 loan I had to take to try to save her life. The 4k payed for surgery, which I view as a more than fair cost. I decided not to have any more animals until one day a cat showed up dying at my front foor. Leaving him to die was not an option, and neither was spending more money that I didn't have. I found the vet that I talked about and was able to save the cat with a simple deworming and some IV fluids. The cat was dying from lack of nutrition due to a bad case of worms - something that can be fixed easily, yet the clinic nearby wanted thousands for the effort while the other vet charged about $100. Guess which vet allowed me to save the life of that poor cat. Guess which vet allowed me to adopt the cat (taking it to overpopulated shelter is almost a death sentence) and afford to keep it healthy.

My point is, where you see a vet that is lowering your potential income, I see one that cares enough about animals and their owners to not charge ridiculous prices on basic things. We're not talking about complicated procedures here. He kindly refers emergency cases to a proper hospital. He's ensuring that people like me can take their pet to get their yearly checkup without paying as if the pet were undergoing surgery. If the general opinion is that taking your animal to the vet should be a luxury, then you all are gonna hate me if I ever open up a practice. To me, animals come first.

By your line of reasoning, grocery stores should provide discounted or free food to hungry people, doctors shouldn't charge for their services to treat sick kids, and pet stores should give pet food to people who can't afford to buy it.

Which is all rainbows and butterflies, except that it's NOT the case. I think that there is a happy medium between GIVING your services away, and charging absurd markups on things. Can't afford to save your pet's life? That's why things like Care Credit are offered in many practices. We have a special fund for animals who need immediate care, and we have a number of cases where owners who couldn't afford lifesaving care surrendered the pets to us. Any animal who walks in the door in real trouble (cat turning blue from complications from a urinary blockage, for example) immediately gets the care they need, then payment plans get worked out afterwards if necessary.

OTOH, a lot of people perceive that vets charge absurd amounts of money, but I'd be willing to bet that most of them have never seen a bill from their healthcare provider - because they have insurance. So they don't have a good sense of what the services are worth.

I think most clinics do their level best to provide the care the animal needs while also making enough money to keep the clinic running. If we gave it all away, there wouldn't be a clinic left to treat the pets.

 

[david594]

I agree that this pricing scheme devalues the profession too, but holy hell! Where is the money coming from to support all 3 docs + staff + overhead? Or is the vet clinic just a storefront for a money laundering business?

I'm going to have to disagree with everybody here and say the practice charging $0 exam fees is pretty brilliant. They took the one item that they know every client will ask the price off, and made it their loss-leader.

All they are doing is taking a business approach to running their business. Lets assume they wanted to improve their practice's financial situation. They could either raise their prices to generate a larger profit margin on their current case load(which will likely shrink due to increased price). Or they could lower their prices to generate a smaller margin on an increasing case load (due to their lower price drawing in new clients). If the practice is already consistently maxed out with appointments, then the former is the logical direction to go. But if the practice is fairly slow and has a lot of under utilized labor, then the latter might be a good consideration. If you can't get the clients in the door for the exam, then its impossible to charge them for the vaccines, hw/4dx test, and fecal exam that make the exam profitable.

 

[lareinesoleil]

I think your arguement would hold better if vets were paid better. You can hardly claim we are adequately reimbursed for our knowledge, expertise, time and care. The vast majority of vets are hardly charging owners ridiculous things - the odd one might, but the majority are barely charging enough to pay themselves and their employees a mediocre wage. I absolutely agree that individual circumstances should be taken into account - but i also DO think that more and more pet owners need to take responsibility for the actual, fair costs of their animals healthcare.

Absolutely I care about animals. I think every person here does, and we will all continue to prioritise them as much as we can throughout our careers. But to be honest, me EATING needs to come first. Paying off my schooling, and providing shelter, food and clothing for my family will come first. I struggle to think of anyone else in the community who is asked to provide services so below their value, or for free, as consistantly as veterinarians. Yes, I want to save as many animals as I possibly can, and help as many owners and farmers as I possibly can. But it is not unfair, uncaring, or heartless, for me to expect adequate compensation for doing such a thing. And it is not unfair, uncaring or heartless, for me to expect adequate forethought from pet owners before taking on what is actually a huge responsibility.

+1. You can care about animals and still charge reasonably for your services.