Reasons to not become a DO

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by someday soon?, Jun 5, 2002.

  1. someday soon?

    someday soon? Junior Member

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    I am applying to med school next year and I am strongly considering going to a DO school. My grades are 3.9 across the board and I have volunteer experience at a hospital, been president of my local chapter of Phi Theta Kappa, been chosen as a part of a Native American dance group to represent the United States in Germany for UNICEF's fiftieth anniversary, and, yes, I am Native American. So, my reasons for choosing DO are not because I think that I'm not competitive at an MD school, but I am interested in their philosophy.
    I have not yet made up my mind so if anybody has any reasons not to DO, let me know.
    Thanks.
     
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  3. none

    none 1K Member

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    It can be good for you, but it can be very bad as well. DOs often place into less competitive residency positions and into less competitive specialities. Many communities do not fully understand that DOs are real doctors.
     
  4. Dr. Clink

    Dr. Clink Member

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    Someday,
    It all depends on what "kind" of doctor you want to become and the type of specialty you want to go into. I'm not saying its impossible for DO's to become cardio-thoracic surgeons, just on average, they tend not to go that route. All in all, even with a stellar gpa and MCAT scores it is still the school that chooses you. Therefore, decide where your philosophy lies and then be true to it.
     
  5. someday soon?

    someday soon? Junior Member

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    I am very interested in becoming an OB/GYN. Even though it may be harder for males to become established now days, I cannot think of a specialty that would be more rewarding and fulfilling. I'm not sure if DO's have a hard time getting a residency in this specialty though.
     
  6. gel1

    gel1 Senior Member

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    I know that you didn't ask about money, but I think that some schools offering an MD might have more money to give to students. So many med schools are recruiting Native Americans. I know that U. Michigan offers full scholarship and more if you go there, and some states besides Michigan have laws that guarantee to pay your tuition anyway if you have proof that you are one quarter or more Native American. With the cost of school in general, and with some DO schools costing more than MD schools, and considering that you are interested in OB/GYN, why not apply to both MD and DO and see what you can come up with? In the end, it is mainly the person that makes the great doctor, not the school or degree. Just my thoughts...
     
  7. Kashmar

    Kashmar Junior Member

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    I would recommend applying to both types of programs. You will get a better idea of which direction you want to go as you visit various schools and meet with students and faculty.

    As Gel1 stated, you may be eligable for substantial scholarships. Top schools have disproportionate amounts of resources and don't hesitate to use them to recruit students of interest. It sounds like you have many options and I would recommend checking into as many programs as possible. Best of luck.
     
  8. none

    none 1K Member

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    Don't go to a DO school if you're interested in science! They have some of the smallest research grants out there and not a single MSTP isntitution among them. As far as OB/GYN work...it's primary care and not a really super comepetitive field, a DO degree should be okay.
     
  9. Dr. Clink

    Dr. Clink Member

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    None is right about the OB/gyn being primary care and not one of the most competitive residencies. I do think that some of the OMM might even be of some help in the gestation period. Apply to both and get the "feel." Whatever you do, money should not be a determining factor as there are many programs out there waiting for primary care physicians.
     
  10. futrfysician

    futrfysician Senior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by spam:
    <strong>If you are in the field of medicine for recognition don't go DO...If you are in it for the love of science, medicine and humanity, then go for it!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Like no DO student ever goes into medicine for the love of science, humanity and medicine!! What a bigoted, misinformed statement made by an obviously ignorant kid. Gee, ya think there aren't any DO's who get recognized for excellence in medicine?

    Ya think there aren't any DO's who make fantastic surgeons even though there are many? How about MD's who really suck at FP? OB-GYN? How about MD's who are only in it for money? (snicker)

    Get yer head out of it dude. You are truly ignorant. I hope someday I am your chief and I get to pimp you till your brain explodes.
     
  11. Nogpa

    Nogpa Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by futrfysician:
    <strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by spam:
    <strong>If you are in the field of medicine for recognition don't go DO...If you are in it for the love of science, medicine and humanity, then go for it!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Like no DO student ever goes into medicine for the love of science, humanity and medicine!! What a bigoted, misinformed statement made by an obviously ignorant kid. Gee, ya think there aren't any DO's who get recognized for excellence in medicine?

    Ya think there aren't any DO's who make fantastic surgeons even though there are many? How about MD's who really suck at FP? OB-GYN? How about MD's who are only in it for money? (snicker)

    Get yer head out of it dude. You are truly ignorant. I hope someday I am your chief and I get to pimp you till your brain explodes.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think you misunderstood. I think he was saying that if you ARE interested in science, medicine and humanity, go with a DO if it floats your boat. What they WERE saying(I think) is that DOs are less recognized by the general public, and so it might not get the prestige that an MD(hence the lack of "recognition")

    BR
     
  12. otter

    otter Senior Member

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    Even if you were to enter primary care, it appears that there's some stigma attached to DO, from the perspective of the medical community and consumers. This is unfortunate, but it's something you'll have to think about.

    I agree with others who have posted. Apply to both types of schools. Since your credentials are stellar, apply only to two or three of your top-choice DO schools and then apply to a wide mix of MD schools. Use the application period to get a feel for which route you'd feel more comfortable with in terms of your future.
     
  13. gbey

    gbey Junior Member

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    Futrfysician:

    You are the one who is being ignorant. You do not seem to understand English. How did you do on Verbal reasoning? Your comprehension is poor.

    Also, you must be a DO, not because you are ignorant but because you are so defensive, just as many of the DO candidates on this board do.

    Do not be upset, just think about it.

    Gebe
     
  14. npdoc28

    npdoc28 Member

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    originally posted by none:
    "They have some of the smallest research grants out there and not a single MSTP isntitution among them."

    Just wanted to point out that Michigan State COM has a MSTP program offering D0/PHD. I know it's only one school, but there might be a couple more. I know that many DO schools are trying to place more emphasis on research. However, I do agree that if you really want to do research, go to an allopathic school, they just simply have more opportunites in that area and more funding.
     
  15. EpiII

    EpiII Senior Member

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    From what I understand, the DO degree is not recognized outside of the US. If you want to do international work, then you might want to look further into whether that is a possibility with the DO.

    There is no reason to not apply to both right now and continue to think about it throughout the year. The only schools that will ask you about your reasoning are the DO schools.
     
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  17. none

    none 1K Member

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    npdoc28...the ONLY MSTP institution in Michigan according to the NIH is the University of Michigan. Remember, MD/PhD or DO/PhD does not equal MSTP. The MSTP institutions have a special caliber of combined degree programs. I can't find any DO MSTP schools.
     
  18. Mutterkuchen

    Mutterkuchen Senior Member

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    I don't think that MSTP is just the caliber of the program. I believe that the funding for MSTP comes from the federal government. An MD/PhD from a quality institution is just as good as an MSTP MD/PhD. The difference is that you probably cannot get funding (tuition and stipend) for the MD portion unless it is an MSTP institution, unless the university wants for fork over the money themselves.

    With respect to the DO question, I am not applying because of my grandmother and her sister. They lived in a small farm community served by a DO. They as well as their friends never thought he was a good as an MD. He probably was, but I do not want to go through my career justifing my fundamental credentials. I don't want to be constantly asked what a DO does, and what the difference between a DO and an MD is.
     
  19. altaskier

    altaskier Altaholics Anonymous 92'

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    There is nothing wrong with become a DO. I know a DO doctor and she is a really good doctor. The only thing you have to make sure is that you like their style of medicine (ie...you'd be interested in doing manipulations, etc). What she tells me is that being a DO is like being an MD and a chiropractor combined into one. I think that is a pretty good background to have.
     
  20. ellerose

    ellerose Member

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    Someday,
    Good for you if you looking into the DO route. If you have a DO school near you, you might want to start looking into visiting it (I know the DO school in my city welcomes prospective students into their classrooms to see what it is like, and can even pair you up with a DO student-mentor). They may also provide you with shadowing experiences with a practicing DO. For more info on the DO history and philosophy and a list of all schools, go to <a href="http://www.aacom.org." target="_blank">www.aacom.org.</a> You know what? Do what makes you feel happy. If you are more intuned with the DO philosophy than the allopathic philosophy, there is no reason that you can't be a successful doctor with a DO. I know of DO students that make it into Mayo residencies, and even becoming faculty at allopathic institutions. True, there are some states where being a DO is not as popular, but I think that as society changes and health care changes, DOs will become equals to MDs in all, if not most, regards. Look into both kinds of schools and find your fit. Also, depending on whether you want to do the IHS scholarship (which requires a service payback to the IHS after your residency), you can get your schooling for free, whether an MD or a DO program.
     
  21. Jersey Girl

    Jersey Girl Member

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    UMDNJ-SOM has a DO/PH.D program and a DO/JD program as well.
     
  22. brickmanli

    brickmanli Senior Member

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by altaskier:
    <strong>There is nothing wrong with become a DO. I know a DO doctor and she is a really good doctor. The only thing you have to make sure is that you like their style of medicine (ie...you'd be interested in doing manipulations, etc). What she tells me is that being a DO is like being an MD and a chiropractor combined into one. I think that is a pretty good background to have.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Did you guys see the Scientific American Frontiers last Tuesday where a former chiropractor showed the tricks chiropractors play? It blasted the whole profession and talked about the duplicity and harm that goes on in the practice. The guy who invented this stuff was a wacko. If DO is anything like this, then I pity the fool.
     
  23. npdoc28

    npdoc28 Member

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    none,
    yes I do know that a combined DO/PHD, MD/PHD may not exactly mean it is an MSTP program, there are actually several DO schools that offer the combined degree. However, I do know that Michigan State does call their program a MSTP program. I could be wrong, because I don't know the whole NIH specifics of a MSTP program. It's not really that important if they do or not because it is obvious that if you want to go MSTP it would undoubtedly be better to go to an MD school. I am agreeing with you that if you are hardcore research than go MD.
     
  24. none

    none 1K Member

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    You are correct that they call their program a MSTP...that's horribly misleading. I wonder why they feel they can call their program such when no MD school without an MSTP grant would. Here is a list, from the NIH, of the true MST Programs:
    <a href="http://www.nigms.nih.gov/funding/mstp.html" target="_blank">http://www.nigms.nih.gov/funding/mstp.html</a>
     
  25. Bikini Princess

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by brickmanli:
    [QBDid you guys see the Scientific American Frontiers last Tuesday where a former chiropractor showed the tricks chiropractors play? It blasted the whole profession and talked about the duplicity and harm that goes on in the practice. The guy who invented this stuff was a wacko. If DO is anything like this, then I pity the fool.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yep - I always get skeptical about the whole "holistic medicine approach" that DO school promotes. No offense, but i've heard there is a fine line between the term 'holistic medicine' and the term, 'quackery'.
     
  26. Bradleyp

    Bradleyp Senior Member

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    Careful to criticize a field you nothing about. Less than 10% of DO's use OMM (some is very useful some is not)in clinical practice and many hospitals in various states have more DOs than MDs. I will probably go MD for the price of my state school, but my sister who is in a DO school will be a great doctor who is getting excellent prepartion. You are not so limited in residencies in that DOs have many of their own (from family practice to neurosurgery) as well as the option of going into allopathic residencies. The only differences people bring out are rooted in their own egos. Also check your med school catalogs to see how many DOs there are.
     
  27. Bikini Princess

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    Not trying to criticize - just pointing out that some people think there is a 'holistic' stigma to DO programs..
     
  28. Bradleyp

    Bradleyp Senior Member

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    There is nothing wrong with the term "holism". I feel that it exists and is a foundation in both osteopathic and allopathic principles, why not make sure your patient is entirely healthy both mentally and physically? If you have a psychotic person with a cold you aren't just going to treat the cold (even if the cold is their only complaint). I think DO schools use this term to sound as if they are more patient oriented, which is totally physician specific (some doctors care more than others, DO or MD). These issues have been beat to death.
     
  29. Ice Man

    Ice Man Member

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    I second bradleyp on this. I am at Wash U and my best friend is at UHS (DO school). We just took the USMLE, and I bet he does better than me. It is much easier for them to be placed in neurosurgery (just an example) if they are not "stellar" students. It would be nice to know that if you don't score in the 95th percentile on the boards you still have a very legit shot of doing what you want to do.
     
  30. Ice Man

    Ice Man Member

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    Also, just like most things it's over-rated. There is no stigma in the real world. The DO vs. MD thing is moot once you get into third year. I am sorry but if you sit there and watch your collegue (the DO student)do exactly what you do and still think they are less than you, you have got some real narcissistic issues. If you want to go DO, fine. If you want to go MD, fine. You will get a great education and great opportunities either way. However, don't try to justify your choice with a superiority complex, because in the end there is no difference between the two.
     

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