Recommendations for those applying for residency

[Peeshee]

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Hi,I'd like to get advice and recommendations from those who have already gone through the process of applying for residency. What would you have done differently? Do you have any recommendations for making the process simpler? Is there anything I can do now to prepare for the applications/interviews,etc.?
Thanks so much!

 

[turtle md]

My advice would be to save more money than you think you will need. Also, if possible, try to schedule the interviews in geographic clumps, to avoid having to fly to the same region more than once. If you have a significant other, try to bring him/her along with you since they will have to move too. Take good notes about the interview and the program. It may seem tedious to do that after a long day of interviewing, but when you go back to try to make a ROL, these notes will help. Try to spend more than the interview day in the area. Take an extra day to see the city and get a feel for what life outside of work will be like.

The most important piece of advice, though, is try to relax and enjoy it (as much as possible). It will be a good way to see the different types of programs and maybe see some of the country you haven't visited.

 

[MasterintuBater]

good advice from the above poster. Money is an issue. TIME is also an issue. Stay ahead. Start early. Get your personal statement done early. Get your letters of recommendation EARLY. I can't highlight this one enough. Get your LOR's EARLY. Start researching programs you are interested in EARLY. Schedule your interviews EARLY (not necessarily early in the interview season...just get them scheduled right away....RIGHT when you get the interview invite). Get your plane tickets EARLY. Get your ERAS stuff in EARLY. You get the idea. The more you stay ahead, the less stress you will have, and the more organized you can be.

 

[avgjoe]

good advice from the above poster. Money is an issue. TIME is also an issue. Stay ahead. Start early. Get your personal statement done early. Get your letters of recommendation EARLY. I can't highlight this one enough. Get your LOR's EARLY. Start researching programs you are interested in EARLY. Schedule your interviews EARLY (not necessarily early in the interview season...just get them scheduled right away....RIGHT when you get the interview invite). Get your plane tickets EARLY. Get your ERAS stuff in EARLY. You get the idea. The more you stay ahead, the less stress you will have, and the more organized you can be.

So when should we get the LORs by? How about the personal statement?

 

[MasterintuBater]

I recommend having your personal statement done and ready to put into the ERAS system the day that ERAS comes online for your class (somewhere in August I think). It would also be great to have your LORs wrapped up by then because the letters have to be sent to your school and then uploaded into the eras system. This can take a little while...so the sooner you have secure the letters the better. Also you may be in the middle of an audition rotation in August/September and may be wanting to get a letter from this program. I recommend asking for the letter at the beginning of the rotation, and making sure the letter is sent to your school by the end of your rotation. This takes some judicious yet delicate prodding with a hot poker to some of the busy attendings you will have requested letters from. If you already have attendings in mind to get letters from, go ahead and try to get them soon....that way you won't be begging at their doorstep during crunch time. Remember, you can submit your ERAS application before your letters are in. As the letters trickle in, your school will upload them. But you really want to have all your letters uploaded by the time programs start handing out interview invites.
Good luck to all of you. If you're already thinking about your ERAS application and what you need to be planning for, you are right on track. Some of you may be studying for boards now too, and if you are on track in your application process, you're setting yourself up to be nice and relaxed in your study time.

 

[Caffiend_79]

I couldn't agree with MasterintuBater more. I submitted my ERAS application 3 weeks after the first day we were allowed to post the application online. As a result, I received almost no invitations to interview until I actually called the residency programs and expressed great interest in their programs.

 

[eyedr]

I agree with all of the above. If you stay on top of it now, you'll save yourself a lot of stress come August and September. One thing that was not mentioned was that you also need to work on a CV along with the personal statement. Have them done and have several people revise both. You're going to need both of these when you ask for letters of recommendation. If you wish, you may even include copies of comments made about you on your subjective third year evaluations when you ask for the LORs. If these people dont know you tremendously well, it may sway them into writing something even stronger. Whoever posted EARLY, EARLY, EARLY couldn't have said it better. I know of one individual who told me he sent in his ERAS application for a transitional year three weeks after September 1st and he received very few transitional interview offers...he was obviously a great applicant since he matched into a strong Ophtho program. You must be timely to optimize your chances of being offered a maximum number of interviews. Hope this helps

 

[Peeshee]

Thanks so much for the great info. and advice!
Do you guys recommend getting letters of rec. from drs. in the specialty you are applying to, or does it matter that much?
Thanks for the info. about the CV....I didnt know that I should revise that also.

 

[the citizen]

Do you guys recommend getting letters of rec. from drs. in the specialty you are applying to, or does it matter that much?

Yes, I would suggest you get one from the chair of the department if possible; if not the chair, at least the PD.

 

[ears]

Do you guys recommend getting letters of rec. from drs. in the specialty you are applying to, or does it matter that much?

It depends on the specialty. There are some specialties which literally require you to have a "chairman's letter", in which case your school's department will certainly have a mechanism in place to produce such a letter for you.

On the other hand, if you're in a specialty, where it's not required, then only get a letter from the chair or PD if you've actually worked reasonably closely with that person.

Which gets me into general advice on LORs.

• You want your letters from attendings you've worked with in the clinic and who know you well. Specifically, they need to be able to tell some specific anecdote about you displaying some quality that is sought after in your specialty.
• You want them from people who actually want to write a letter for you. Sometime like now, you should ask people you're considering, "Could I ask you to write me a strong letter of recommendation?" You want a warm, enthusiastic response. Or better, if in talking to some attending you've worked with, they say something like, "If there's anything I can do to help you along in your career, just let me know", that's code for "I would be happy to write you a great letter."
• You want them from people who know how to write good recommendations. Ask around, your deans probably know who writes good letters.
• Good writers understand about the deadlines. They don't ask things like, "So when is the last possible day to turn this in?" (This happened to a friend of mine, and it was a letter she had to have.)
• If you're targeting some specific program, you might try to get one from someone with a connection there (they know the PD, they trained there themselves, whatever).
• In the ideal world, you would have worked closely with somebody really famous in the field, and they'd be happy about writing you a letter. But the impression I've gotten is that a lukewarm or impersonal letter from a giant does not support your application very well, so this is less important.
• The above advice about being early and organized (which I heartily second) applies especially to letters. Ask people early (in person) if they can write them for you. Then, in early August, take them your PS and CV and the cover sheet (in person) and stress the deadlines to them. It will still seem to take forever for them all to come in.

The whole process is a big pain, but there's definitely a fun side to it. I think the more organized you are, the more fun you get and the less pain.

 

[scootad.]

Dont underestimate the interview! If you want a competitive program in a competitive specialty its simply not enough to be friendly & good looking with good stats. Unless you are a total natural at interviewing, practice & prepare for each interview. Know how to sell yourself & make yourself marketable. Also dont assume that just because you are being interviewed you have a great shot at any one place. Lots of places interview tons of applicants even one's they aren't particularly serious about - this is why the interview is a make it or break it.

 

[Strap]

All the advice above is right on the money.

I would also add about interviews:

Go to as many if not all of the interviews to which you are invited. You really never know which program might just click for you.

Get to know www.travelocity.com for air travel and car rental; it will save you a lot of money and time. I would avoid orbitz.com because they like to spring hidden charges on you at the very end of the process, even after committing to purchasing.

Have many questions about the program prepared beforehand. I found that a lot of these interviews are as much if not more about what you ask than how you answer.

If there is something weak in your application (board scores, repeating Anatomy, etc ...) play it by ear as far as the interviewer is concerned. If they don't mention it, I would not bring it up. If they "lead" the conversation that way, then be honest and don't get defensive. Some interviewers will have total and complete access to your application, others will barely know your name.

If possible, practice being interviewed. A great interview can make up for a lot of deficiencies. Remember, if you've been invited for an interview, then you made the cut on paper. What they're looking for is are you someone they can work with.

Smile, dammit! A lot.

If you get invited to dinner/lunch with the residents, make every effort to go. Not only do you get a good meal, but the residents can make or break an application.

Smell clean. But no cologne/perfume.

And remember, never, ever, ever, ever, wear brown shoes with a black belt. 😱

 

[ears]

Big secret for successful interviewing: act enthusiastic about the program you're at. It's not enough to be enthusiastic; you have to express your enthusiasm. This is definitely not the time to play coy. Act excited about the hospital, about the city, about the people you've met... the whole thing.

The catch, though, is that you can't seem fake. So you either have to be a very good technical actor who can feign sincerity, or you'll have to use the method interviewing approach and psych yourself up to actually be enthusaistic about every place you go. This gets harder by the tenth interview.

 

[turtle md]

All the advice above is right on the money.

I would also add about interviews:

Go to as many if not all of the interviews to which you are invited. You really never know which program might just click for you.

This is oh-so true. The place I ended up ranking #1 (and matching at 🙂 ), was one of the ¨back-up¨ programs on my initial list. But I ended up going for the interview and found it to be the best program for me.

So definately keep an open mind when going - surprising things can happen.

 

[Peeshee]

Wow! You guys have really given great advice here! I appreciate it very much!

I'd like to ask another question though - If I am planning to do an elective rotation at a place I'd like to apply for residency, what month would be good for that? Does November seem like a good time since it is at the start of the interview process? Or do you think I should do it earlier in order to get a LOR from a dr. there? What other months would be good?

Thanks again!

 

[turtle md]

Wow! You guys have really given great advice here! I appreciate it very much!

I'd like to ask another question though - If I am planning to do an elective rotation at a place I'd like to apply for residency, what month would be good for that? Does November seem like a good time since it is at the start of the interview process? Or do you think I should do it earlier in order to get a LOR from a dr. there? What other months would be good?

Thanks again!

I would recommend doing it earlier. Then you can impress them and get a LOR. This will help you to secure an interview there. October is about the end of the time you want to go, and the earlier the better . But, depending on the specialty, you do not need to rotate through. I matched at a place where I didn't rotate. A rotation will also give you an idea if you really want to go there (one place I did rotate turned me off, so I ended up not wanting to go there). Hope this helps...

 

[Peeshee]

I would recommend doing it earlier. Then you can impress them and get a LOR. This will help you to secure an interview there. October is about the end of the time you want to go, and the earlier the better . But, depending on the specialty, you do not need to rotate through. I matched at a place where I didn't rotate. A rotation will also give you an idea if you really want to go there (one place I did rotate turned me off, so I ended up not wanting to go there). Hope this helps...

So,for example, if I'd like a family practice residency, do you think it's necessary to rotate in that specific area? I only have 2 electives avail.,so it's kind of difficult whether or not to do both in family practice or diversify to another area (such as dermatology or pediatrics).

When do the LOR have to be in for the ERAS? What is the earliest date?
I'd like to get the LOR ASAP so the apps. wont be delayed. So,maybe,I dont have to get a LOR from the place I rotate, if I end up doing the rotation like in November.

Thanks for your response!

 

[Hawkeye Kid]

All the advice above is right on the money.

Get to know www.travelocity.com for air travel and car rental; it will save you a lot of money and time.

In line with this advice, I was talking to a recently-matched-soon-to-graduate senior who got--get this--TWELVE flights for EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARS by including them all in one itinerary. She basically made it span over several weeks with many "trips" to Milwaukee (we're at MCW). Something like NY to MKE to TX to MKE to Detroit to MKE...etc. She essentially made the trips home last however long she would be there till the next interview. You obviously have to have a set schedule in order to do this, but you can avoid some serious spendage this way.

 

[ZephyrX]

Big secret for successful interviewing: act enthusiastic about the program you're at. It's not enough to be enthusiastic; you have to express your enthusiasm. This is definitely not the time to play coy. Act excited about the hospital, about the city, about the people you've met... the whole thing.

The catch, though, is that you can't seem fake. So you either have to be a very good technical actor who can feign sincerity, or you'll have to use the method interviewing approach and psych yourself up to actually be enthusaistic about every place you go. This gets harder by the tenth interview.

I don't disagree with what ears is saying above but please don't do the mistake of making even the negative stuff sound good. Eg. "I've lived in SFO and NYC all my life but i would kill to live in Detroit". Ok stretched but you know what i mean. They will see right through you.

Z.

PS. No offense to people who actually like living in Detroit.

 

[ORS]

A few points to consider (keep in mind that these apply to my specialty-ortho) and may not apply to other:
1. Apply early
2. LORs: Bigs names help, but include a mix of peolple that KNOW YOU WELL
3. Address on ERAS should be the state you want to go to. I.e. if you went to school in NY and come from cali choose the one you want to go to as your "home address" as you will be able to say that you want to go back to cali and they will know you went to school in cali
4. Step I too late now, but take step II early if you did not rock step I. NOTE: Register AFTER you submit your eras so you can choose to send your steop 2 scores or not.
5. Thank you letter post interviews (right away as comittees often meet soon after interviews
6. Make a calender of the dates programs interview so you reduce the conflicts
7. Only apply where you want to go
8. Rotate at your top three programs (choose a top program and a "safe" program). Come early and stay late....
9. Make your rank list based on where you want to go. The match is biased towards applicant.

 

[avgjoe]

I would recommend doing it earlier. Then you can impress them and get a LOR. This will help you to secure an interview there. October is about the end of the time you want to go, and the earlier the better . But, depending on the specialty, you do not need to rotate through. I matched at a place where I didn't rotate. A rotation will also give you an idea if you really want to go there (one place I did rotate turned me off, so I ended up not wanting to go there). Hope this helps...

In terms of what rotation to do at the away hospital, does it matter? I've heard that there are a few good rotations there, but those are full with their own students. Should I then wait to see if some open up for later months (Oct+) or take any rotation that is free earlier?

 

[DOtobe]

So,for example, if I'd like a family practice residency, do you think it's necessary to rotate in that specific area? I only have 2 electives avail.,so it's kind of difficult whether or not to do both in family practice or diversify to another area (such as dermatology or pediatrics).

Doing a rotation at the place you're interested in going for residency isn't as big a deal for FP. I didn't rotate through the program I matched at. FP isn't as competitive, so an "audition" rotation isn't as essential as in other specialties. I say do your electives in other diverse areas. 😀

Good luck

 

[turtle md]

Doing a rotation at the place you're interested in going for residency isn't as big a deal for FP. I didn't rotate through the program I matched at. FP isn't as competitive, so an "audition" rotation isn't as essential as in other specialties. I say do your electives in other diverse areas. 😀

Good luck

I would agree; have some fun with your electives. The only reason to do a FP rotation as an elective at a program you are interested in is for your benefit - to see if you really ARE interested in that program.

 

[Peeshee]

Doing a rotation at the place you're interested in going for residency isn't as big a deal for FP. I didn't rotate through the program I matched at. FP isn't as competitive, so an "audition" rotation isn't as essential as in other specialties. I say do your electives in other diverse areas. 😀

Good luck

What areas would you recommend doing electives in for FP? Would dermatology or pediatrics be good choices?

 

[turtle md]

What areas would you recommend doing electives in for FP? Would dermatology or pediatrics be good choices?

Depending on where you will do your residency, a medical-Spanish course may be useful. I went to school in Texas, and it was extremely helpful there.

Apart from that, I would recommend having fun with your electives. You will learn all about FP in your residency. If you want to visit another country, then now is one time to do it. There are many international electives out there for medical students. Or if there is a field that you have an interest in besides FP, then take some time to explore it.

 

[Peeshee]

Depending on where you will do your residency, a medical-Spanish course may be useful. I went to school in Texas, and it was extremely helpful there.
Apart from that, I would recommend having fun with your electives. You will learn all about FP in your residency. If you want to visit another country, then now is one time to do it. There are many international electives out there for medical students. Or if there is a field that you have an interest in besides FP, then take some time to explore it.

I think you're right! I'm going to look into an international elective,but I'm not sure if it will be approved since I went to a foreign med.school...It is a great idea though and now is one of the best times to do it! Otherwise,I'll stay in the US and explore some part of the US I've never been to before!
thanks!