Recommendations on medical supplies for M1?

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DrFizition

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Hello all.

Starting M1 this fall. I'm required to buy a reflex hammer, snellen eye chart, tuning fork 128hz and pen light. They also recommend getting a blood pressure cuff.

1. Do you guys have any recommendations on which particular brands/items i should get?
2. How much does the quality of the reflex hammer matter? There are a few cheap ones on amazon but some of the reviews call them "toys" rather than medical equipment, so I'm unsure if those are worth getting.
3. While it is not exactly required, do you think getting a BP cuff is worth the money?

Thanks!
 
1) You'll need a stethoscope. I recommend a Littmann Cardiology III. I think it's good to have a stethoscope with a dedicated bell so that you can show evaluators in OSCEs and such that you know how to use it (for carotid bruits and stuff). That's the reason I don't like the master cardiology. Whatever works though. You could easily get by fine with one of the lightweight Littmann stethoscopes for less money. In any case, your school might get you a discount on this stuff. I've even heard of some schools giving stethoscopes out as gifts, so you might want to wait. You won't need it from day one anyway.

2) I'm a rising MS4 and I don't own a reflex hammer. They'll probably be provided in the room for your OSCEs. On wards, unless you're on neurology, nobody carries a reflex hammer. It's cool if you want to, but nobody does. I'll probably buy a cheap one from the bookstore before my neurology rotation.

As far as how much the quality matters if you're gonna get one? It doesn't. Unless you're a neurologist, it will not matter at all. If people even check reflexes on the general wards, the most you're checking for is essentially "eh, that's normal" versus "hey, nothing really happened on this side" versus "holy ****, that dude almost kicked me in the face." I can get a patellar or triceps reflex with the tips of my fingers. Usually I (and most people) use the stethoscope for this on the occasion it's needed.

3) Absolutely not.
 
1) You'll need a stethoscope. I recommend a Littmann Cardiology III. I think it's good to have a stethoscope with a dedicated bell so that you can show evaluators in OSCEs and such that you know how to use it (for carotid bruits and stuff). That's the reason I don't like the master cardiology. Whatever works though. You could easily get by fine with one of the lightweight Littmann stethoscopes for less money. In any case, your school might get you a discount on this stuff. I've even heard of some schools giving stethoscopes out as gifts, so you might want to wait. You won't need it from day one anyway.

My school recommends Littmann Classic II or III. How do they differ from the Cardiology? They also require a BP cuff. Do you have a good recommendation?


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My school recommends Littmann Classic II or III. How do they differ from the Cardiology? They also require a BP cuff. Do you have a good recommendation?


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The classic would work fine, honestly. The cardiology is just a little nicer and has better acoustics but I don't think it's a big deal. The cardiology is just what my school recommended. I also liked the way it looked and felt. Any Littmann product is probably fine. There may be other brands that have good stethoscopes too, but Littmann is a sure bet.

Don't get a BP cuff. I'm telling you now that you won't need it. My school "required" a whole bunch of ****, including an ophthalmoscope and an otoscope (which are ridiculously expensive). I didn't get any of it and it was literally never an issue. Never even had to borrow any of it. Seriously, I'd just pass on the sphygmomanometer for now and see what the setup is. In all likelihood, the exam rooms you will use for OSCEs and stuff will all have them mounted on the wall. You're not going to be doing solo house calls and stuff as a med student. There's no reason to have it.

I know it feels super cool when the idea of being a med student is all new to buy a ton of medical equipment, but most of it is unnecessary other than a decent stethoscope. If you want to buy more than that, go ahead, but realize it is just to satisfy your desire to own medical stuff that you think is cool and that you will not use it.
 
My school recommends Littmann Classic II or III. How do they differ from the Cardiology? They also require a BP cuff. Do you have a good recommendation?


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Most people at my school have a Littmann Classic II SE. This will get you through 4 years and is definitely better than the lightweight which I've seen mostly on nurses. You don't need the Cardio 3. Search SDN for stethoscope discussions, there are a lot of threads on this.

My school never required a blood pressure cuff. So I second what the above poster said about not buying one. if you end up needing it, your school bookstore will have one
 
I used a Littmann Classic II SE. A lot of my classmates had the fancier, more expensive ones and I don't think it made a difference. Glad I didn't splurge since I don't carry one anymore. If you go into cardiology or something you can upgrade later.

I am embarrassed to admit I got duped into buying all the other stuff - BP cuff, otoscope, ophthalmoscope, tuning fork, reflex hammer - all useless. Well, except the otoscope - now I use it to check my kids' ears.
 
For reflex hammers, a Queen Square hammer or a Babinski hammer will make eliciting reflexes a piece of cake. Or if you have a very quick and strong wrist action, you can percuss reflexes using your fingers and save money by not buying a hammer.

I percuss these days so I don't have to carry so much stuff around.
 
Our school gave us nice stethoscopes for free during orientation week, but I use a Littmann Classic III because it's pretty lightweight, high quality, and fits my head better. A lot of people like the Cardiology III, but if you're not trying to spend as much money, a Classic III (or even a Classic II which some people actually like better than the III) is totally fine. I would wait on this though to see if your school gives you a free stethoscope (unless they explicitly tell you you need to buy one).

Reflex hammer just buy the cheapest one possible. As long as the head is heavy-ish you're fine. The only reason you should ever get a "high quality" reflex hammer is if you match into (or are doing Sub-Is in) neurology.

Pen light get one that's cheap (no more than $3) - you're going to lose these left and right because people borrow them and you forget to ask for them back. Same with Snellen chart (which should be small and cost <$5) except no one is going to borrow them because you don't actually use them anyway.

Tuning fork just get the cheapest one. There are like 3 tests you need to do with them and you'll generally defer them unless there's a specific indication for the test.

I would recommend getting a very cheap ($20) blood pressure cuff because you're actually going to need to learn how to use it and it's good to take blood pressure on every patient (and another BP cuff isn't always available). You'll be using your cuff more than your reflex hammer, snellen chart, and tuning fork combined.
 
Thanks. I'll probably get a classic II to save some cash. We were all emailed a few weeks ago stating that we are required to purchase a BP cuff with sphygmomanometer (new requirement this year).

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1) You'll need a stethoscope. I recommend a Littmann Cardiology III. I think it's good to have a stethoscope with a dedicated bell so that you can show evaluators in OSCEs and such that you know how to use it (for carotid bruits and stuff). That's the reason I don't like the master cardiology. Whatever works though. You could easily get by fine with one of the lightweight Littmann stethoscopes for less money. In any case, your school might get you a discount on this stuff. I've even heard of some schools giving stethoscopes out as gifts, so you might want to wait. You won't need it from day one anyway.

2) I'm a rising MS4 and I don't own a reflex hammer. They'll probably be provided in the room for your OSCEs. On wards, unless you're on neurology, nobody carries a reflex hammer. It's cool if you want to, but nobody does. I'll probably buy a cheap one from the bookstore before my neurology rotation.

As far as how much the quality matters if you're gonna get one? It doesn't. Unless you're a neurologist, it will not matter at all. If people even check reflexes on the general wards, the most you're checking for is essentially "eh, that's normal" versus "hey, nothing really happened on this side" versus "holy ****, that dude almost kicked me in the face." I can get a patellar or triceps reflex with the tips of my fingers. Usually I (and most people) use the stethoscope for this on the occasion it's needed.

3) Absolutely not.

Totally disagree about the reflex hammer!!!
You are a med student and there will be MANY times you will be asked if you checked reflexes for a lot of very common presentations/concerns
(stroke admits & low back pain pop to mind)
I wouldn't skip checking for a plantar flexor response either

You will use that hammer any sort of musculoskeletal/odd sensation type complaints (very common!)
on peds & FM a lot for well child exam, physicals, neuro, IM wards, EM, ICU (almost daily), surg clinic, ob/gyn (part of tracking the progression of pre-eclampsia)
a lot of your core rotations

I always made a very favorable impression on neurologists & EM docs by carrying this little beauty:
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recommended to me by an EM doc, the fact that you can elongate it means, by golly, you are gonna pound that reflex out of the patient! (It resembles the neurologist's beloved Queen's hammer for length but is portable). Unless they have flaccid paralysis and zero tone, they *will* have a reflex you can elicit if you have proper technique. Eliciting reflexes is a two handed job, by placing your fingers over the tendon/muscle you are testing, you can feel a contraction even if it is not strong enough to move the joint appreciably).

You can buy it for $10. Downside is it might break/not last as long as the tomahawk models, and the way the head can articulate you occasionally need to tighten it up with a screwdriver and you have to strike a certain way or the head glances off. Docs will love it and always want to borrow it but be disappointed by the head moving so you just have to point that out when you hand it over to them.
I have never regretted owning it and it has served me well for my medical career to date.

Don't be the chump that uses the side of your stethoscope either, you might see an attending do this but most I know will chastise you if they see you doing this.

Part of appropriately testing reflexes is having a fair amount of control over the amount of force you use and being able to approximate applying symmetrical force. Remember, if you check one side's reflexes you must always check the other side for comparison and it's a useless comparison if you're not applying approximately the same amount of force. The best way to do this is to hold the hammer between your fingers at the same spot and allow the head to sort of "fall" the same distance onto the site you're testing. You are letting gravity and physics standardize your strike this way, as opposed to "hitting" using the force of you striking using your muscles, hence why a longer lever and a longer drop allows you to more easily add more force to elicit more difficult responses without fudging it up with you trying to "hit" twice the same way.

I might see PMR & ortho guys not using a hammer, but let's just say the neurologists still don't like it, and if they can get away with it it's because of how much experience they have that you don't.

Trust me, buy the nice hammer and feel confident in the quality of your neuro exam. It can make the difference.

Some schools will tell you to have your own BP cuff because part of the curriculum can include rural medicine or health fairs where there aren't enough. I've been in some lean volunteer clinics where there was one cuff between 4 rooms. So it really depends if you will need it or not otherwise I would skip it do to cost if possible. One the other hand, I have not regretted owning mine for a moment as I rest easier being able to check all of my loved ones who might not otherwise go to the doc, and I have used it in health fairs and international medical missions. I might have saved a life when someone told me outside the hospital they were having an acute GI bleed "that wasn't that serious" and I was able to check their BP and convince them they needed to go to the ED. I like having that degree of control but you don't need one unless your school insists.

As far as tuning fork, I have never regretted investing in the 256 Hz one and carrying it with me. For diabetic foot exams, you can substitute testing for vibratory sensation over proprioception ("am I moving your toe") with it which I find easier and more reliable. The forks can be found cheap.

MS2 I bought this pack of 6 penlights for $8 and I've still got 3 left.
Amazon product ASIN B003F13FMQ
I bought Maxwell's Pocket Guide and it has the eye chart I use but I don't know if that chart is a Snellen or acceptable to your school but it's a very practical thing to have.

Get yourself this for your stethoscope, it WILL be a nice thing to have and might save your $150 stethoscope. Plus it looks snazzy and is only $7.
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Amazon product ASIN B0030UV3P8

I use the White Coat Clipboard but everyone has their own system. I had to sew a custom pocket into my white coat for it though.

I address buying your own otoscope/opthalmoscope last. It's the most expensive item ahead of the BP cuff but one of the coolest things to own although you won't use it often. I found it very valuable on wards because you often can't find one and I would have mind charged up in the workroom. It allowed me to practice and become more proficient with eye exams compared to any of my peers. As a poster noted, I like being able to check eyes/ears outside of clinic anywhere I like.

I can do a full annual physical outside the clinic except for a speculum exam. DISCLAIMER: Not that you should.
 
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definitely get the circle reflex hammer. much easier to hit them damn tendons! Agree with not needing a super fancy stethoscope. things you will use and need
1)sethoscope
2) penlight or use phone
3) reflex hammer
4) lots and lots of pens !

you can always borrow a opthalmoscope from a classmate during those practice ms1 ms2 sessions not worth the $100. if you really needed it in the hospital, you can always find one. same with otoscope.

and manual blood pressure cuff? lol. no one will carry that thing with them to the hospital.
 
I would recommend getting a very cheap ($20) blood pressure cuff because you're actually going to need to learn how to use it and it's good to take blood pressure on every patient (and another BP cuff isn't always available). You'll be using your cuff more than your reflex hammer, snellen chart, and tuning fork combined.

I agree that you should learn how to take a manual blood pressure. I agree that every patient should have a blood pressure done. I disagree that you'll use the cuff more than the other three. I think it's worth it to invest a little more in a good quality reflex hammer, because getting reflexes is an important skill and useful and quick thing to do in patients with a variety of complaints.

The only time I used my cuff outside of learning how to take a BP in the first place was for volunteer activities outside of the hospital setting. I never once used it in the hospital or clinic, because there were always cuffs available somewhere.
 
If I need a reflex hammer, I use my stethoscope. And yes, even as a PGY4 surgical resident, I carry a stethoscope (and I feel like I'm the only one). Although, now that I think about it, I'm sure some medicine resident would get pissy if they saw an MS3 doing that.

I have never seen a reflex exam actually change patient care. Imaging these days is just too good to allow something so subjective drive care. Then again, the closest that I have been to neurology was running the acute stroke service for a month, but I don't think I saw someone check reflexes with intent to really use the information for anything productive even once.
 
If I need a reflex hammer, I use my stethoscope. And yes, even as a PGY4 surgical resident, I carry a stethoscope (and I feel like I'm the only one). Although, now that I think about it, I'm sure some medicine resident would get pissy if they saw an MS3 doing that.

I have never seen a reflex exam actually change patient care. Imaging these days is just too good to allow something so subjective drive care. Then again, the closest that I have been to neurology was running the acute stroke service for a month, but I don't think I saw someone check reflexes with intent to really use the information for anything productive even once.

Checking reflexes is valuable to decide what to image. More importantly, it helps you decide if what you see on imaging is actually symptomatic (spinal stenosis) or how symptomatic it is (spine trauma). Finally, reflexes are useful for diagnosing conditions that are primarily evaluated without imaging (Guillain-Barre, peripheral neuropathies). That being said, unless you are in a specialty that routinely sees and treats these conditions, you will not get a lot of mileage out of a reflex hammer.

Used to be you could get free ones from drug reps - I am sure that does not happen much any more. I guess they are cheap though. Be prepared to lose it if you get one. I have added the reflex hammers (I went through several) to the long list of "stuff I bought for medical school that is now lost."
 
Get the good telescoping reflex hammer shown above. Even on EM or IM with one of those old guys ,you don't want to be the dufus saying there's no reflex on the fatty mc fatterson and then the attending gives you a lecture on proper technique when you are trying to get to lunch. and get the super bright nice LED penlight and don't lose it because you are an adult. same thing, you don't want to be dicking around telling your attending the guy has no pupil reflex when there's non-turn-offable fluorescents in the ward. plus its good to get your good compression socks at 4am from the drawer when your SO is sleeping without turning on the light
 
Our school gave us nice stethoscopes for free during orientation week, but I use a Littmann Classic III because it's pretty lightweight, high quality, and fits my head better. A lot of people like the Cardiology III, but if you're not trying to spend as much money, a Classic III (or even a Classic II which some people actually like better than the III) is totally fine. I would wait on this though to see if your school gives you a free stethoscope (unless they explicitly tell you you need to buy one).

Reflex hammer just buy the cheapest one possible. As long as the head is heavy-ish you're fine. The only reason you should ever get a "high quality" reflex hammer is if you match into (or are doing Sub-Is in) neurology.

Pen light get one that's cheap (no more than $3) - you're going to lose these left and right because people borrow them and you forget to ask for them back. Same with Snellen chart (which should be small and cost <$5) except no one is going to borrow them because you don't actually use them anyway.

Tuning fork just get the cheapest one. There are like 3 tests you need to do with them and you'll generally defer them unless there's a specific indication for the test.

I would recommend getting a very cheap ($20) blood pressure cuff because you're actually going to need to learn how to use it and it's good to take blood pressure on every patient (and another BP cuff isn't always available). You'll be using your cuff more than your reflex hammer, snellen chart, and tuning fork combined.

You can disagree about the reflex hammer but I almost never used one on inpatient. As I said, I still haven't had neuro yet and will probably get one before that but I just disagree about needing it on the floors. During outpatient experiences, most places I was at had much better reflex hammers than I would carry in my coat (like 2-foot pendulum style ones).

I hate lugging around random crap though. You'd be surprised how much your back can hurt if you carry too many small things in your coat pockets.
 
I bought a metal ADC pen light after my cheapo ones kept flickering/not turning on. I like it a lot. I routinely carry a:

-stethoscope
-Pen light (Link here)
-Reflex Hammer
-5x8 inch pads (Link here)
-Snellen eye chart (Maxwell's has one on the back as well)

Realize that these equipment lists are curated by a group who goes, "what should every physician have?!" Like textbooks, wait and see what is really important to buy.
 
I use a Littmann Master cardiology for work. It's been perfect. Our school said they have a list of all this equipment they want every student to have, and that they're working with an outside company to provide it. I kind of refuse to buy that stuff unless there's an actual need for it. I have never seen a clinical room that did not have a blood pressure cuff in it, thats kind of insane. Our school expects us to buy THREE (pediatric, adult regular, adult large). Negative ghost rider.
 
Not so useful until you hit the floors, but these can be very helpful for navigating/updating the printed patient list (e.g., red for new problems, green for new rx, etc.):

s0980464_sc7
 
I bought a metal ADC pen light after my cheapo ones kept flickering/not turning on. I like it a lot. I routinely carry a:

-stethoscope
-Pen light (Link here)
-Reflex Hammer
-5x8 inch pads (Link here)
-Snellen eye chart (Maxwell's has one on the back as well)

Realize that these equipment lists are curated by a group who goes, "what should every physician have?!" Like textbooks, wait and see what is really important to buy.

how did you link to Amazon? when I cut and paste the links it doesn't work!!
 
Not so useful until you hit the floors, but these can be very helpful for navigating/updating the printed patient list (e.g., red for new problems, green for new rx, etc.):

s0980464_sc7
You don't need to buy these -- you'll manage to borrow and accidentally walk off with a few of these a day by the time you are an attending.
 
I use the flash on my iPhone instead of a penlight. It's brighter than any penlight I have found and I always have it on me.
Unless you are a fan of MRSA you won't want to be handling you phone and patients together.

Truth of the matter is, other than the stethoscope, all these things are really just toys for practice. Unless you go into neuro you won't be carrying around a reflex hammer or tuning fork, and you'll never work someplace that doesn't have a BP cuff on the wall. And these days with so many people in contact precautions you'll spend most of residency/med school gowned up and using disposable stethoscopes and not likely to be taking anything out of your pocket to use on patients, so only really relegated to whatever equipment comes with the room. So I'd get the cheapest stuff you can find. You can often get a lot of this stuff cheap off eBay, as pharmaceutical companies used to give hammers, stethoscopes, penlights etc away. I've even seen reflex hammers go for $0.25 a bunch at garage sales.
 
Unless you are a fan of MRSA you won't want to be handling you phone and patients together.

Truth of the matter is, other than the stethoscope, all these things are really just toys for practice. Unless you go into neuro you won't be carrying around a reflex hammer or tuning fork, and you'll never work someplace that doesn't have a BP cuff on the wall. And these days with so many people in contact precautions you'll spend most of residency/med school gowned up and using disposable stethoscopes and not likely to be taking anything out of your pocket to use on patients, so only really relegated to whatever equipment comes with the room. So I'd get the cheapest stuff you can find. You can often get a lot of this stuff cheap off eBay, as pharmaceutical companies used to give hammers, stethoscopes, penlights etc away. I've even seen reflex hammers go for $0.25 a bunch at garage sales.

I agree with all of what you said. The only comment I'll make here is that I think those plastic disposable stethoscopes are a total joke. Why don't we just, as a community, decide that the yield and benefits of routine cardiac auscultation of patients on contact precautions does not outweigh the risks of spreading infectious disease? I simply do not believe anyone can hear a murmur with those things—if you do, you'd probably hear it by just being close to the patient. It seems like an institutionally sanctioned version of documenting an exam you didn't actually do.

Regarding @mimelim on the irrelevance of reflexes on patient care, maybe I'm too much of the "new generation" in medicine, but I really think most physical exam crap is just artifice and holdover from an era when it actually mattered. The basics of the abdominal exam, looking for JVD, cranial nerves and some other stuff can be helpful for identifying acute emergent issues or ruling out some stuff, but honestly a lot of what we're taught is obsolete.

Most people can't elicit Murphy's sign correctly or correctly identify anything useful about bowels by auscultation. Back when physicians did this stuff all the time and it was a big part of their diagnostics, they were probably better at them and the sensitivity/specificity of these signs might have been at least serviceable. I don't think that's even close to the case now for most things.

We're in a new era and for most stuff, if you're concerned, you get some sort of lab test or imaging. There are a few specific pathological states that at some point in their disease course have very few abnormal test/imaging findings but these usually just get chalked up in didactics with the trite phrase "you just have to have a very high index of suspicion for this condition"—a euphemism for "a lot of these people will probably die of no real fault of ours because, I mean, how the **** are we supposed to know that this is what's going on?"
 
Physical examination is absolutely still a valuable skill. You're correct that there are signs and so forth that do not carry as much importance as they once did, but imaging and tests can't answer everything.

To build off the pupil discussion, what about Horner's syndrome or Adie's tonic pupil? Imaging cannot diagnose either of these. Surgeons still rely on the abdominal exam to determine if laparotomy is needed in trauma patients. You should not order an MRI on every patient with joint or back pain - you do an exam first and then decide if further testing is needed.

Ordering tests, especially imaging, for everything is part of the reason health care costs are out of control. Also, tests have risks - most notably, finding an abnormality of dubious significance.

As far as the iPhone - ask any infection control officer and they will tell you that phones, like the rest of this stuff, are already cesspools. I mitigate this by doing the pupil exam first, one hand on the eyelids other on the phone, and then wash my hands and finish the exam. This is also what I do when no other light is available - which is fairly rare.
 
Physical examination is absolutely still a valuable skill. You're correct that there are signs and so forth that do not carry as much importance as they once did, but imaging and tests can't answer everything.

To build off the pupil discussion, what about Horner's syndrome or Adie's tonic pupil? Imaging cannot diagnose either of these. Surgeons still rely on the abdominal exam to determine if laparotomy is needed in trauma patients. You should not order an MRI on every patient with joint or back pain - you do an exam first and then decide if further testing is needed.

Ordering tests, especially imaging, for everything is part of the reason health care costs are out of control. Also, tests have risks - most notably, finding an abnormality of dubious significance.

As far as the iPhone - ask any infection control officer and they will tell you that phones, like the rest of this stuff, are already cesspools. I mitigate this by doing the pupil exam first, one hand on the eyelids other on the phone, and then wash my hands and finish the exam. This is also what I do when no other light is available - which is fairly rare.
Even if the phone is a cesspool, at least it's your cesspool -- it pales in comparison to what some of your patients are walking around with.

I think there's great value in physical exam if you do it right. But the teaching on that is pretty suspect, and reliance on imaging is huge. And imaging cost is not going to go away with better exams because of the CYA aspects. Sure it's great if someone can say with confidence that a patient has a surgical abdomen, but a picture is worth 1000 words when you end up in court.
 
Even if the phone is a cesspool, at least it's your cesspool -- it pales in comparison to what some of your patients are walking around with.

I think there's great value in physical exam if you do it right. But the teaching on that is pretty suspect, and reliance on imaging is huge. And imaging cost is not going to go away with better exams because of the CYA aspects. Sure it's great if someone can say with confidence that a patient has a surgical abdomen, but a picture is worth 1000 words when you end up in court.

True - pictures are worth a thousand words. But once you have that picture, you need the exam to decide what to do with it. The surgical abdomen for instance - once a liver injury is identified in a trauma patient (by imaging) those patients are followed with labs and serials exams to decide is surgery is needed. When that patient with back pain gets an MRI that shows a bulging disk, and exam is needed to decide if surgery is necessary. And, there are still conditions that are diagnosed largely based on history and physicially including many rheumatologic conditions, neuropathies, etc.

And, the phone is a cesspool that belongs to you, everyone you lend it to, and every person whose hand you shake.
 
The only comment I'll make here is that I think those plastic disposable stethoscopes are a total joke.

I know an EM attending who has used the same plastic disposable stethoscope for years. He likes it so much that he leaves a spare in the lounge. Oddly enough no one has taken it...
 
I think we all agree a steth is non-optional.

The penlight is soooooo cheap, and the battery lasts waaay longer and is more reliable to be "on" than my cell phone, and it takes a bit more time to pull up the flashlight on my phone punching in the passcode etc than to just use a trusty penlight with nifty pupil gauge. Easy to carry in white coat or scrubs pocket.

If we want to talk CYA, than having a reflex hammer and checking reflexes becomes that much more important. Maybe that's why second to neurologists I see EM docs using it. It looks really bad when you have a patient complaining of parathesias/weakness in a limb and and you don't check & document reflexes and the neuro NP comes up behind you and documents it & it's abnormal. People will notice this, and if it came up in court that would look soooooo bad. LBP is soooo common and I think a common source of tort, and we love to dismiss it because 95% of the time it really isn't anything we can do something about (case of patient heal thyself with PT), but in my view unless you've done a good exam to rule out neuro deficits from the LBP, than you have no good basis to dismiss it. In fact, your exam finding or not finding deficits is one part of the criteria for whether or not imaging is needed, or referral to a neurologist if something else is suspected.

In my view as a generalist practitioner, you need a steth, the arguments go way in favor of penlight, and I can't take generalist docs seriously that don't have a hammer and checs reflexes when indicated. I always had those 3 items. Even on psych, although I left them in the workroom.

You can argue against the tuning fork but it's cheap and it frequently had its place in my neuro exams.

People that are comforting themselves that a half-assed neuro exam does nothing for care can say that because they're doing a half assed exam. If you took it seriously and applied the principles rigorously, you might see otherwise. Maybe it's the culture of my program, but most of the residents carried a reflex hammer.

Note, I'm not talking as a general surgeon.

This lazy attitude I see toward the physcial exam I have seen harm patients.

The penlight, hammer, +/- tuning fork are so cheap it's ridiculous to think a med student isn't going to be expected to have them even if residents/attendings feel "above" a quality physical exam.

Then again, my school took the physical exam very seriously. At least I have that to thank them for.
 
My school requires us to get a sphygmomanometer but I have nooo idea what I'm looking for here. Any recommendations?

EDIT: I see folks saying that they never really needed one, which is good to know! I may end up skipping it entirely but still curious to see if people have input on a particular brand or model?
 
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My school requires us to get a sphygmomanometer but I have nooo idea what I'm looking for here. Any recommendations?

EDIT: I see folks saying that they never really needed one, which is good to know! I may end up skipping it entirely but still curious to see if people have input on a particular brand or model?

Skip
bought a welch allyn for like 35 and used it three times?
Why do you think that schools bring reps and give you "discounts"? So many of my classmates bought those 600 dollar oto/ophthalmoscope and used them like no times. They're way too expensive to bring around to actual patients and risk getting them stolen
 
Our school is also wanting us to have these things going into first year. They have a deal with MDF to get everything we need for just under $800 😵 Orrr I can just piece together this setup from Amazon for a couple hundred bucks cheaper:



Thoughts, recommendations? The ophthalmoscope/otoscope is the kicker 🤔

*I'd like to add that I am an adult and I tend to take excellent care of my things.
 
Or you could just buy a cardiology 3 for less on steeles.com and get it engraved with your name without wasting money on the other stuff

Apparently there's a cardiology IV out now
 
Or you could just buy a cardiology 3 for less on steeles.com and get it engraved with your name without wasting money on the other stuff

Apparently there's a cardiology IV out now

I don't want to buy the other stuff, but I believe we are required to. Will research the IV.
 
Our school is also wanting us to have these things going into first year. They have a deal with MDF to get everything we need for just under $800 😵 Orrr I can just piece together this setup from Amazon for a couple hundred bucks cheaper:



Thoughts, recommendations? The ophthalmoscope/otoscope is the kicker 🤔

*I'd like to add that I am an adult and I tend to take excellent care of my things.

As has been sort of covered in this thread, nix the ophthalmoscope/otoscope and the sphygmomanometer. You will never need those. They are in every exam room (both real and fake) you will ever step foot in. I think a reflex hammer is cheap and fine to buy even though I never carry one and just use my stethoscope (will need one for neuro though) other than that, those are fine choices. I think the stream light might even be a little bright but I don't know. I have a nice penlight for general use (four sevens preon 2) and have been meaning to buy a ****ty little penlight for the hospital because I've used that light on patients but think that even on its lowest setting it is too bright.

The only exception I can think of to not buying an otoscope, ophthalmoscope and sphygmomanometer is if you're sure you're going to do Family Medicine or something and will be doing home visits. Otherwise, totally unnecessary.
 
I don't want to buy the other stuff, but I believe we are required to. Will research the IV.

Yeah I was required to as well. Only one preceptor wanted it and I could have just borrowed it from one of the people who spent 600 bucks on equipment that they would use once
 
As has been sort of covered in this thread, nix the ophthalmoscope/otoscope and the sphygmomanometer. You will never need those. They are in every exam room (both real and fake) you will ever step foot in. I think a reflex hammer is cheap and fine to buy even though I never carry one and just use my stethoscope (will need one for neuro though) other than that, those are fine choices. I think the stream light might even be a little bright but I don't know. I have a nice penlight for general use (four sevens preon 2) and have been meaning to buy a ****ty little penlight for the hospital because I've used that light on patients but think that even on its lowest setting it is too bright.

The only exception I can think of to not buying an otoscope, ophthalmoscope and sphygmomanometer is if you're sure you're going to do Family Medicine or something and will be doing home visits. Otherwise, totally unnecessary.

Penlights can never be too bright. They need to be bright to adequately assess pupil reactivity. Look at the lights the ophthalmologists use.
 
Penlights can never be too bright. They need to be bright to adequately assess pupil reactivity. Look at the lights the ophthalmologists use.

I don't know dude. I would never even think about routinely subjecting my patients to the 220 lumen high mode of my preon 2. I've done it to myself and it's really uncomfortable and literally blinds me for a good 30 seconds afterwards with some weird haziness/floaters for a couple minutes afterwards. Yeah, if I was assessing an orbital hematoma or something maybe this is justified, but I don't like subjecting my patients to that. I've found that patient's pupils fairly completely restrict just with the tiny little cheap penlights. Until I get one I'll use my preon 2 on its low mode.

The other thing about my preon is that it's fairly expensive for a light (like 40 bucks) and it looks it—textured anodized blue aluminum, etc. I'm always worried it will grow legs and walk off. I've deliberately kept it in my locker in my backpack on surgical/ob rotations because of how often my white coat has just been lying around when operating, helping with lines, pulling tubes, deliveries, etc. I want something cheaper that I'm less worried about. I'm worried enough about my cardio III every time I go in the OR as it is.
 
I don't know dude. I would never even think about routinely subjecting my patients to the 220 lumen high mode of my preon 2. I've done it to myself and it's really uncomfortable and literally blinds me for a good 30 seconds afterwards with some weird haziness/floaters for a couple minutes afterwards. Yeah, if I was assessing an orbital hematoma or something maybe this is justified, but I don't like subjecting my patients to that. I've found that patient's pupils fairly completely restrict just with the tiny little cheap penlights. Until I get one I'll use my preon 2 on its low mode.

The other thing about my preon is that it's fairly expensive for a light (like 40 bucks) and it looks it—textured anodized blue aluminum, etc. I'm always worried it will grow legs and walk off. I've deliberately kept it in my locker in my backpack on surgical/ob rotations because of how often my white coat has just been lying around when operating, helping with lines, pulling tubes, deliveries, etc. I want something cheaper that I'm less worried about. I'm worried enough about my cardio III every time I go in the OR as it is.

You make good points about not wanting to lose it.

I also understand that in school you are expected to do thorough exams on everyone.

In practice, though, if you are checking pupils it's probably for a reason and therefore appropriate to do with tepee highest sensitivity tool available.
 
You make good points about not wanting to lose it.

I also understand that in school you are expected to do thorough exams on everyone.

In practice, though, if you are checking pupils it's probably for a reason and therefore appropriate to do with tepee highest sensitivity tool available.

Fair enough. I'm going into psych, so my considerations really are more regarding med school than actual practice. As a med student, I think that you'll quickly find your patients getting pissed at you when you're blasting their eyes with all of the lumens when they're in the hospital for gout. IM attendings, especially, often like to hear that you did a "full" exam on everyone as you mention, so I think it's kind of intrusive.

I totally agree though that if someone has, like, maxillary and lamina papyracea fractures, periorbital ecchymosis and proptosis, you should be blasting that eye with all you've got. Same for meningeal signs, acute dysarthria/dysphagia, sudden severe headache, facial droop, etc.
 
Just spent $720 on an entire Welcy Allyn diagnostic kit with a pan optic opthalmoscope, sphygmomanometer with 3 cuffs, and Littman Cardiology 3 from an upperclassman. My school runs a free clinic and I'm interested in primary care so I thought I'd buy a complete set.
 
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