Red flag or not on residency application.

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Is this a "red flag?"

  • Yes!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No!

    Votes: 4 100.0%

  • Total voters
    4
  • Poll closed .

ricksimmonsrafowens

Full Member
5+ Year Member
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I am an MS3 at a mid-tier school. I was middling average to above average in pre-clinical classes, but I scored a low 250s on Step 1, and I have a 1st author paper in a Nature journal (basic science), + 2 middle author papers, + posters and a research funding award from my school. I may be able to crank out another paper in clinical GI research before the end of the year - fingers crossed. I have completed 3 rotations so far. I got Honors on my first rotation, which was in a surgical specialty (my other rotation was graded P/F and I'm rather sure I passed it, as everyone does, and I'm not sure about my family medicine grade, but unfortunately it's probably not honors - that shelf was difficult, particularly as the first shelf I took!). HOWEVER, I had to skip out on my 1st rotation of MS3 due to "personal issues" - my dean told me it shouldn't be a red flag on my application, but I'm consumed with doubt. The personal issues were w/ a family member having health issues (with whom I lived with during med school) - unfortunately I couldn't rely on anyone else to help me with taking care of them, as we don't have much family in the States. If I wanted to apply to Gen Surg or even a subspecialty surgery residency (I realize I would have to make that decision fast now), how much would this red flag hurt me? Would my score + research compensate for it? Is a 250+ even good anyone? It seems like everyone on SDN is scoring 260 or something.

Thank you for reading.
 
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What do you mean "skipped out"?

As in you started late, or didn't finish or failed it? Is it recorded as a leave of absence?

I didn't start the rotation at all. It was a 4 week rotation. It is currently scheduled for end of my MS3. I'm not sure if it was a true LOA unfortunately, as I wasn't required to and didn't turn in any paperwork that's associated with an LOA.


@vhawk Thank you, that's encouraging to hear.
 
I didn't start the rotation at all. It was a 4 week rotation. It is currently scheduled for end of my MS3. I'm not sure if it was a true LOA unfortunately, as I wasn't required to and didn't turn in any paperwork that's associated with an LOA.


@vhawk Thank you, that's encouraging to hear.

Sounds like you just used some of your MS4 vacation time upfront. If your school won't consider it a LOA, then you don't have to list it as an interruption in your medical education
 
Sounds like you just used some of your MS4 vacation time upfront. If your school won't consider it a LOA, then you don't have to list it as an interruption in your medical education

I will find out to make sure. Thanks for replying! This thread is very much easing my worries of this being a huge red flag on my application.
 
You're joking right? You scored less than 260 and you're upset about it, get a grip, and I know 15k people who'd stick their foot up your ass. As for the rotation, who cares, you never started it, millennials cry so much. This is a dumb post.
 
Can anyone give me a hint of my chances for vascular surgery? I'm on the service currently, and I'm immensely enjoying it. I don't have any vascular research, but I would consider starting it if my chances are good as I currently stand. The match rate for vascular was 89% in 2017 and average Step was in high 230s, so I guess I'll be OK on the numbers front?

paging @mimelim.
 
Can anyone give me a hint of my chances for vascular surgery? I'm on the service currently, and I'm immensely enjoying it. I don't have any vascular research, but I would consider starting it if my chances are good as I currently stand. The match rate for vascular was 89% in 2017 and average Step was in high 230s, so I guess I'll be OK on the numbers front?

paging @mimelim.

Talk to the docs you're rotating with. It will depend on whether they like you and who they know.
 
Can anyone give me a hint of my chances for vascular surgery? I'm on the service currently, and I'm immensely enjoying it. I don't have any vascular research, but I would consider starting it if my chances are good as I currently stand. The match rate for vascular was 89% in 2017 and average Step was in high 230s, so I guess I'll be OK on the numbers front?

paging @mimelim.

There are so many pieces of the application and interview that matter beyond your step score, and it is, therefore, difficult to give you an accurate answer to 'what are my chances'. That said, your step 1 score is solid enough for that filter. Having any research at all can be meaningful.

There are multiple pathways to vascular. Integrated (0+5) is a great option for some people. Traditional (GS 5+2) is also an option that is far less competitive overall. If you truly have an interest in vascular, I encourage you to explore both options and make sure you choose the right one for you. 0+5 was not for me personally, but I think it's wonderful if it fits you and your personal goals. Some programs also offer ESP (4+2) which requires you to complete all your training at the same program, but leaves you BE in gen surg and vascular, unlike 0+5.

There are other ways you can demonstrate an interest in Vascular Surgery over the next year besides research (such as applying for an SVS VAM medical student travel scholarship, attending, and meeting as many people as possible). (Also, VESS, EVS, and probably others have various awards medical students are eligible for).

Hope that's helpful!
 
Sorry, been on trauma call the last several night and have been getting killed, meant to respond earlier. This is the PM I just sent you, but for others curious in the future, figure I'd drop it here for those stumbling on this thread in the future:

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The biggest issue for you is going to be, "Why vascular?" Your Step 1 score will get your application looked at, but the problem is that there are plenty of people with good scores applying to vascular surgery and with the relatively high attrition rate of surgery and the small size of vascular surgery programs, it is imperative that programs select residents that have a higher chance of staying in vascular and really know what they are getting into. It isn't enough to really enjoy a rotation or love carotid endarterectomies or whatever short exposure reason. You have to have an understanding about vascular surgery as a field and be able to demonstrate to faculty that you know what you are getting into. Vascular surgeons have the worst hours of any specialty. They have incredibly unpredictable schedules and it is not uncommon to have emergencies in many practices almost daily. There are many operations that can not be delayed until morning. The patients are the sickest you will find and the pathology chronic.

You have to understand all of those things and still be interested in the field. There are a multitude of reasons to love vascular surgery, but having realistic expectations of your life going forward is paramount. Most people want you to demonstrate this, not just say it. The first step is exposure. This means home institution rotations and away rotations. It is not atypical for people applying to vascular to do 2-3 away rotations. It is not atypical for people to spend 2-3 months in their late 3rd year or early 4th year on the vascular service at their home hospital. Many will create electives in vascular lab or clinic to get extra time with vascular faculty. It is expected that you have 3-5 letters of rec from vascular surgeons. For our program, we call the letter writers of all of our top candidates to get more information. They need to know who you are and not just say that you are 'nice'. Another way of showing/demonstrating interest is vascular specific research. All research is valuable on your application, but a lack of vascular research is concerning, especially if someone has done a reasonable amount of other research. For example, we routinely don't interview people with 3-4 ortho, urology or plastics publications with 240+ step 1 scores who are clearly applying to vascular as a 'backup' or for other unknowable reasons. They tend to also lack vascular specific letters.

Lastly, get to the SVS annual meeting. There is a scholarship that you will get if you apply early: SVS General Surgery Resident/Medical Student Vascular Annual Meeting Travel Scholarship | Society for Vascular Surgery

There is a ballroom dedicated to vascular programs and ~90% of program directors are there, along with hundreds of vascular residents. Overall, you are far from behind and have a good chance at matching vascular if you are really interested. But, you need to really focus on answering the question of "why vascular" not just for PDs, but also for yourself.
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