Reflection on the Cycle: Use SDN/Reddit Advice Cautiously and with a Critical Lens

[BioethicsGuy101]

Hi everyone,

I’m not a frequent SDN user, but I wanted to take a moment to reflect on my cycle and the value of resources like SDN and Reddit.

For background, I’m a non-traditional premed student taking three gap years. I’m an ORM with an LM score of 69.

The only time I used SDN was when I needed help creating my medical school list. Coming from a first-generation, low-income background, I felt lost when it came to deciding where to apply based on my stats, interests, and the mission of each school. I shared my stats, extracurriculars, achievements, and a very preliminary list of MD schools.

I vividly remember one user commenting:

"Your clinical volunteering hours in this country are low. Your MCAT score is not competitive for most of the schools on your list, and many schools average scores. You should apply broadly to DO schools."

I firmly believe that DO schools train excellent physicians and play a critical role in addressing physician shortages and healthcare disparities. However, given my interests in bioethics research, health policy, and academic medicine, MD programs felt like a better fit for me, as they likely offered the resources to support these pursuits.

So when I read that comment, my heart sank. It made me question whether I should even apply this cycle. But something inside me told me to take the advice with a grain of salt and keep pushing forward.

I’m so glad I did because I’m incredibly grateful for how this cycle has turned out. I applied to 22 MD schools, received 6 interviews, 1 waitlist, and 1 acceptance. Other decisions are still pending—but that one acceptance is to a T10 medical school with a strong bioethics program.

As I reflect on this experience, I wanted to share my thoughts. SDN and Reddit are a treasure trove of advice and insight, especially from people who have gone through or are currently going through the process. Thanks to these forums, I learned new MCAT study strategies, how to write an update letter, and much more.

That said, I want to remind people that very few users on these forums have actually worked in medical school admissions, and if they have, it’s typically been at just one school. Admissions committee deliberations are a bit of a black box, and no one has cracked the code to create a foolproof formula for getting into medical school. Medical school admissions will always be permeable to subjectivity.

Of course, apply realistically and utilize resources, like MSAR, to help optimize success in the application cycle. But if you have the resources to apply to additional "reach schools," I would recommend doing that.

With that in mind, I think SDN and Reddit can be great resources, but I encourage applicants to approach them with a critical lens and take advice with caution. If I had let that one comment discourage me, I don’t think I’d be in the position I am now.

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[Pile O' Nephritis]

Nice, sounds like you figured out what works for you

 

[LizzyM]

• [3000 hours, ongoing] - Biomedical Ethics Research at top medical center in the U.S. - social science research in scarce resource allocation policies, decision-making for patient with limited English proficiency, and advocacy for incarcerated populations. 1 first-author publication in upper-mid medical journal, 3 middle-author publications in high-level journals (e.g., JAMA, NEJM), 2 poster presentations for international conference (ATS). 2 first-author manuscripts in press in top medical journals

^explains everything!

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Congratulations!

Let's be accurate. The OP has only interacted with SDN with a WAMC post and did not reply to criticism on their profile. May I present my response:

Post in: 'WAMC/School List: (3.8, 510) ORM, MD Resident'

May 1, 2024

I ignore activities with fewer than 50 hours unless it's shadowing. Boost your prison volunteer activity to at least 100 hours; I can give you a little credit for your volunteer work in Vietnam (say 100 hours maximum), but don't bank on other schools doing the same. Your mentoring low-SES students through the college application process doesn't address "service orientation," even though it is a noble cause. In fact, all your work collaborating with or volunteering for your college's admissions office is great for serving your university. That works if you want to become a faculty member...

• Mr.Smile12

I hope that you find medical school to be a thrilling opportunity surrounded by mentors who will nurture your career, even if it is focused on bioethics. May your future be as rewarding as the grants you earn. 🙂

Hello! I am a newcomer to SDN, so thank you for insight and advice. I am a first-gen, low-income college student, that also comes from medicially underserved area.

1. cGPA: 3.80 sGPA: 3.8
2. MCAT (2 attempts): 505 (125, 127, 125, 128), 510 (128, 127, 128, 127)
3. Maryland Resident
4. Asian (Vietnamese)
5. Highly selective small liberal arts college, BA in Anthropology, c/o 2022
6. Clinical Experience (525 hours):

• [400 hours] - Volunteer - Orthopedic and rehabilitation Hospital in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, observing PTs and orthopedic surgeons, assisting patients with limited ADLs (e.g., retrieving food)
• [50 hours] - Volunteer - Blood bank observing patients post donation
• [75 hours] - Volunteer - Hospice center assisting residents with ADLs

7. Research Experience (~3500 hours):

• [500 hours] - Medical Anthropology Research - (Senior Thesis) Conducted interview and focus groups study of BIPOC premed students at my own undergrad institution to assess imposter syndrome, with the ultimate goal to improve premedical experience. No publications, but was invited by institution to present and speak to administration and STEM faculty after graduation
• [3000 hours, ongoing] - Biomedical Ethics Research at top medical center in the U.S. - social science research in scarce resource allocation policies, decision-making for patient with limited English proficiency, and advocacy for incarcerated populations. 1 first-author publication in upper-mid medical journal, 3 middle-author publications in high-level journals (e.g., JAMA, NEJM), 2 poster presentations for international conference (ATS). 2 first-author manuscripts in press in top medical journals

8. Shadowing (90 hours):

• [30 hours] Family Medicine
• [25 hours] Pulmonary Critical Care Medicine
• [10 hours] Pediatric Critical Care Medicine
• [20 hours] Palliative Care Medicine

9. Non-Clinical Volunteering (165 hours)

• [80 hours]: Organized events for and mentored first-gen, low-income high school students to navigate college application process
• [80 hours]: COVID-19 vaccine ambassador, serving as a resource for people wanting to learn more about COVID-19 vaccine, drafted public health materials
• [5 hours, ongoing] Volunteer at local low-security prison to help incarcerated people navigate library system

10. Other Extracurricular Activities

• [200 hours] - Elected as honor council defense advisor to represent students in student conduct procedures
• [300 hours] - Served on student group tasked with interviewing all tenure-track faculty candidates to assess them on inclusive pedagogical practices
• [300 hours] - Resident Advisor for 3 years
• [200 hours] - Bhangra dance group president
• [200 hours] - Senior Admission Fellow interacting with prospective students, organize college access fly-in program, assist with admissions programming
• [120 hours] - Seasonal Admissions Reader for undergrad institution, reading 100+ applications and conferring accepts, WL, and rejections
• [20 hours] - Pre-Health Honor Society Treasurer
• [20 hours] - Appointed member of undegrad institution's COVID-19 logistics ethics board
• [40 hours, ongoing] Violin instructor

11. Relevant Honors or Awards: Full-ride merit scholarship to undergrad, internal grant awardee for social science research

I was granted the AAMC FAP, and plan on applying to 25 MD schools. I am having trouble building my med school list. I am looking for insight on undershoot schools, more target schools, and 5-6 reach schools that are not "stat-wh*res." I also would prefer to stay on the east coast, but I will go anywhere that will take me. Here is what I have so far:

• Temple SOM
• Tufts SOM
• UMD SOM
• UCLA Geffen SOM
• Wake Forest SOM
• GW SOM
• Drexel SOM
• Georgetown SOM
• Mayo Clinic SOM (connection)
• Dartmouth Geisel SOM
• University of Colorado SOM
• Rosalind Franklin
• UCSF
• Thomas Jefferson
• Larner UVT COM
• University of Wisconsin SOM

Thank you so much!

 

[surelycalm]

Hi everyone,


With that in mind, I think SDN and Reddit can be great resources, but I encourage applicants to approach them with a critical lens and take advice with caution. If I had let that one comment discourage me, I don’t think I’d be in the position I am now.

First, it's great that things worked out for you. With that being said, you fall into the 1% that got into a T10 with an LM of 69. Just because you had those results, doesn't mean it's standard. I personally know several folks with LMs of 80+ with plenty of hours, research volunteering that didn't get any T20 interviews. MSAR doesn't lie. The average MCAT and GPA scores are based on the last application cycle. If they accepted any significant amount of folks with a 510 MCAT (or even a 515), MSAR would look very different. So this isn't so much about good vs bad advice, good sites vs bad sites, it's a matter of understanding the numbers and what they mean and using it to put together a proper plan. Even with a 525+ it would not be a proper plan to apply top heavy.

 

[jrlybob1]

Congratulations! This is unrelated but I'm actually really interested in research pertaining to LEP pt populations, would you mind if I DM'd you?

 

[GoSpursGo]

Congratulations! As others have said, you fall into the minority where someone has a factor that is so compelling that it actually overwhelms average/below average stats.

My general advice is that if someone is going to apply with below average stats, then at least have an internal idea of WHY a school might pick up your app over the sea of other similar apps. In general, we see a bunch of posters say that they include a bunch of reach schools "because it's my dream and I might as well shoot my shot." But if you have a really specific mission fit, then by all means give it a go and lend an example to what an "x factor" really looks like!

 

[wabbit]

Congratulations to the OP.

As has already been said multiple times, the OP is the outlier here. That is how "averages" work. For someone else to replicate this feat would be very difficult if not impossible.