Regarding DO

[DenTony11235]

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Guys I'm not beating a dead horse here, I realize that DO doctors are just as able and even receive additional training within the same fields as MD.

However, I've heard and seen evidence that it is more difficult to land some residencies for DOs including surgery and anesthesiology. Can someone give me some unbiased perspective on this? Since surgery is an umbrella term for many different specialties that I may take particular interest for, I would hate to have so many options closed to me before I even get to weigh them.

Also, I'm still hoping on MD II's, Ive been complete between August and September at all schools. What do you guys think about submitting my DO application in 2 weeks. That way I can def. know where I stand with MD schools before I get a fair shot at DO.


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[DoctorSynthesis]

Guys I'm not beating a dead horse here, I realize that DO doctors are just as able and even receive additional training within the same fields as MD.

However, I've heard and seen evidence that it is more difficult to land some residencies for DOs including surgery and anesthesiology. Can someone give me some unbiased perspective on this? Since surgery is an umbrella term for many different specialties that I may take particular interest for, I would hate to have so many options closed to me before I even get to weigh them.

Also, I'm still hoping on MD II's, Ive been complete between August and September at all schools. What do you guys think about submitting my DO application in 2 weeks. That way I can def. know where I stand with MD schools before I get a fair shot at DO.


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Look at match lists. Plenty of people get gas and general surgery. Do well in med school and you will be good.

 

[calculatingclipper]

I think the only disadvantage is set up by yourself not doing well on boards is what I've gathered from students in both MD and DO

 

[Mad Jack]

Guys I'm not beating a dead horse here, I realize that DO doctors are just as able and even receive additional training within the same fields as MD.

However, I've heard and seen evidence that it is more difficult to land some residencies for DOs including surgery and anesthesiology. Can someone give me some unbiased perspective on this? Since surgery is an umbrella term for many different specialties that I may take particular interest for, I would hate to have so many options closed to me before I even get to weigh them.

Also, I'm still hoping on MD II's, Ive been complete between August and September at all schools. What do you guys think about submitting my DO application in 2 weeks. That way I can def. know where I stand with MD schools before I get a fair shot at DO.


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You can become a surgeon as a DO, but you'll have to work your butt off to get into some of the more competitive programs. Many surgical subspecialties will be all-but closed to you (integrated ACGME plastic surgery, ACGME urology and optho, ACGME neurosurg). Anesthesia is easily doable, and is widely known to be a very DO friendly field. Keep in mind that I mean traditionally ACGME programs, as all programs (including DO urology, orthopedics, FPS, and optho) will soon be ACGME accredited. You will not match a traditionally ACGME accredited derm position, ever, and you will likely only match a DO one if you did a rotation there (which is difficult to arrange unless you are going to the school that sponsors the program through their OPTI). ACGME general surg is doable, certainly, and if you're a good candidate you could even get into a mid-tier academic institution.

 

[AlteredScale]

Guys I'm not beating a dead horse here, I realize that DO doctors are just as able and even receive additional training within the same fields as MD.

However, I've heard and seen evidence that it is more difficult to land some residencies for DOs including surgery and anesthesiology. Can someone give me some unbiased perspective on this? Since surgery is an umbrella term for many different specialties that I may take particular interest for, I would hate to have so many options closed to me before I even get to weigh them.

Also, I'm still hoping on MD II's, Ive been complete between August and September at all schools. What do you guys think about submitting my DO application in 2 weeks. That way I can def. know where I stand with MD schools before I get a fair shot at DO.


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As my colleague has stated, take a look at the match lists of DO schools to see where they end up. Many match in surgery.

Specifically to DO, many matriculated identify having primary care interests which is why a majority of DOs end up in these specialities. But it does NOT close doors to other specialties.

There are some programs at the upper echelon of programs (think neurosurgery or IM at MGH, JHU, Stanford, UCLA) that currently hold bias against DOs and will not consider them. Largely this has to do with the fact that they already have a pool of extremely competitive MD grads. That is slowly and hopefully changing as AOA/AACOM begins to collaborate more and more with ACGME..

 

[Mad Jack]

I think the only disadvantage is set up by yourself not doing well on boards is what I've gathered from students in both MD and DO

This is not true. There are plenty of ACGME programs in the more competitive surgical subspecialties that do not look at DOs at all (if you look at the PD survey, about 40% consider DOs in the most competitive integrated subspecialties). Doesn't matter how good your Step scores are if your application ends up in the round file.

 

[ananasmed]

Residencies aside, OP, if you are contemplating applying DO at this point, please try to get some DO shadowing so you are able to talk about your interest in osteopathic medicine in secondaries/potential interviews. A (relatively late) app from a candidate with good stats (I assume) may not be taken seriously if you can't tell them why you're interested in a career as an osteopathic physician. Good luck!

 

[cliquesh]

Anesthesia is DO friendly. I'm a DO anesthesia resident if you have specific questions.

Acgme general surgery is do able as a DO. Other acgme surgical residencies, with the exception of perhaps Ophthalmology, are unlikely as a DO.

AOA general surgery and orthopedic surgery are reasonable goals as a DO. AOA urology, ENT, and neurosurgery are unlikely due to the small number of spots (ie 20 spots for 6000 graduates).

Being a DO is fine for anesthesia, family medicine, pediatrics, internal medicine, PM&R, pathology, Ob/gyn, radiology, emergency medicine, neurology, and psychiatry.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Anesthesia is DO friendly. I'm a DO anesthesia resident if you have specific questions.

Acgme general surgery is do able as a DO. Other acgme surgical residencies, with the exception of perhaps Ophthalmology, are unlikely as a DO.

AOA general surgery and orthopedic surgery are reasonable goals as a DO. AOA urology, ENT, and neurosurgery are unlikely due to the small number of spots (ie 20 spots for 6000 graduates).

Being a DO is fine for anesthesia, family medicine, pediatrics, internal medicine, PM&R, pathology, Ob/gyn, radiology, emergency medicine, neurology, and psychiatry.

Its unlikely but you never know. I have met DOs who done what you said is unlikely. And it is unlikely but certainly possible.

 

[cliquesh]

Its unlikely but you never know. I have met DOs who done what you said is unlikely. And it is unlikely but certainly possible.

Sure, I agree. However, I want people to have realistic goals before investing hundreds of thousands of dollars, especially borderline applicants. It is not realistic for a DO to match many of the acgme surgical subspecialties. No amount of hard work can overcome some of the bias that exists.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Sure, I agree. However, I want people to have realistic goals before investing hundreds of thousands of dollars, especially borderline applicants. It is not realistic for a DO to match many of the acgme surgical subspecialties. No amount of hard work can overcome some of the bias that exists.

I believe and agree with you. You went through it. I was just saying it was possible. I met a DO last week who did it when the discrimination was 10x worse. Matched a ultra competitive acgme surgical sub specialty.

 

[ProudMD]

Guys I'm not beating a dead horse here, I realize that DO doctors are just as able and even receive additional training within the same fields as MD.

However, I've heard and seen evidence that it is more difficult to land some residencies for DOs including surgery and anesthesiology. Can someone give me some unbiased perspective on this? Since surgery is an umbrella term for many different specialties that I may take particular interest for, I would hate to have so many options closed to me before I even get to weigh them.

Also, I'm still hoping on MD II's, Ive been complete between August and September at all schools. What do you guys think about submitting my DO application in 2 weeks. That way I can def. know where I stand with MD schools before I get a fair shot at DO.


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I don't think anyone has directly addressed this important question. If you haven't even submitted your AACOMAS (DO application service) primary at this time, it would be wise to wait until next cycle. At this point, it'll take AACOMAS at least six weeks to verify your primary. After verification, it'll be Christmas/New Year season when schools will be taking large chunks of time off. You'll receive secondary applications from DO schools in January and interviews towards the end of February. It is still very possible to get into a DO school if you apply in two weeks, but you'll be interviewing for the waitlist at many schools. In addition, do you have any shadowing/exposure to osteopathic medicine? I tell this to everyone: DO schools are not "easier" to get into! The stats requirements aren't as high as those of MD schools, but DO schools place a heavy emphasis on fit, clinical ECs, and most importantly, your understanding and appreciation of the osteopathic philosophy.

Consult with @Goro if you have any questions/concerns regarding the DO application and how osteopathic physicians fare in the workforce.

 

[Mad Jack]

Its unlikely but you never know. I have met DOs who done what you said is unlikely. And it is unlikely but certainly possible.

I believe and agree with you. You went through it. I was just saying it was possible. I met a DO last week who did it when the discrimination was 10x worse. Matched a ultra competitive acgme surgical sub specialty.

Many of the DOs that work in competitive specialties are AOA trained, and those that are ACGME trained are often older, and got into certain specialties when they were less competitive (like Derm in the late 80s). What is possible and what is reasonable are two things that must be carefully looked at when making this decision. A middle of the pack MD can often get a spot that you'd have to be top of your class to get as a DO in some specialties. So if a person is asking, "is it wise to go DO if I want to keep my options open for the more competitive specialties" the answer is pretty much "no, it's not, go MD if at all possible."

 

[Mad Jack]

I don't think anyone has directly addressed this important question. If you haven't even submitted your AACOMAS (DO application service) primary at this time, it would be wise to wait until next cycle. At this point, it'll take AACOMAS at least six weeks to verify your primary. After verification, it'll be Christmas/New Year season when schools will be taking large chunks of time off. You'll receive secondary applications from DO schools in January and interviews towards the end of February. It is still very possible to get into a DO school if you apply in two weeks, but you'll be interviewing for the waitlist at many schools. In addition, do you have any shadowing/exposure to osteopathic medicine? I tell this to everyone: DO schools are not "easier" to get into! The stats requirements aren't as high as those of MD schools, but DO schools place a heavy emphasis on fit, clinical ECs, and most importantly, your understanding and appreciation of the osteopathic philosophy.

Consult with @Goro if you have any questions/concerns regarding the DO application and how osteopathic physicians fare in the workforce.

Depending on stats, OP could have a fairly strong shot at DO school if he applies broadly enough. I'm in class with plenty of November and December applicants.

 

[ProudMD]

Depending on stats, OP could have a fairly strong shot at DO school if he applies broadly enough. I'm in class with plenty of November and December applicants.

But did they COMPLETE their application in November/December? If that's the case, then it's definitely not too late. But the OP hasn't even submitted his AACOMAS primary yet, and he's not planning to do so until 1-2 weeks later. Given how long AACOMAS takes to verify primaries and the fact that we are approaching Thanksgiving/Christmas/New Year season, the OP's primary likely won't be verified until January.

It is still very possible to get accepted into a DO school, but I am still going to advise the OP to hold off on AACOMAS until next cycle, if he doesn't get in anywhere this cycle.

 

[Mad Jack]

But did they COMPLETE their application in November/December? If that's the case, then it's definitely not too late. But the OP hasn't even submitted his AACOMAS primary yet, and he's not planning to do so until 1-2 weeks later. Given how long AACOMAS takes to verify primaries and the fact that we are approaching Thanksgiving/Christmas/New Year season, the OP's primary likely won't be verified until January.

It is still very possible to get accepted into a DO school, but I am still going to advise the OP to hold off on AACOMAS until next cycle, if he doesn't get in anywhere this cycle.

Yeah, it'll hurt his chances. But he still will have a chance. What I would do is submit ASAP to one school to get the verification process started, then add schools in two weeks if he doesn't get any acceptances on the MD side.

 

[DenTony11235]

But did they COMPLETE their application in November/December? If that's the case, then it's definitely not too late. But the OP hasn't even submitted his AACOMAS primary yet, and he's not planning to do so until 1-2 weeks later. Given how long AACOMAS takes to verify primaries and the fact that we are approaching Thanksgiving/Christmas/New Year season, the OP's primary likely won't be verified until January.

It is still very possible to get accepted into a DO school, but I am still going to advise the OP to hold off on AACOMAS until next cycle, if he doesn't get in anywhere this cycle.

I do not have DO shadowing experience, but I can get some, just not in time to have a DO LOR.

I have an MD LOR. Which counts for something from what I hear. I have ~200 hours of hospital volunteering, 6 months of research so far, and leadership within a club.

3.4-3.5 sGPA, 3.5-3.6 cgpa, 36-38 mcat.

I'll probably apply to one school, then add more as the cycle progresses


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[ProudMD]

I do not have DO shadowing experience, but I can get some, just not in time to have a DO LOR.

I have an MD LOR. Which counts for something from what I hear. I have ~200 hours of hospital volunteering, 6 months of research so far, and leadership within a club.

3.4-3.5 sGPA, 3.5-3.6 cgpa, 36-38 mcat.

I'll probably apply to one school, then add more as the cycle progresses


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Those are very good stats. You'll get into MD schools, just give it a bit more time. Any IIs? Did you apply broadly?

 

[DenTony11235]

Those are very good stats. You'll get into MD schools, just give it a bit more time. Any IIs? Did you apply broadly?

Thank you for the words of reassurance but I'm pretty worried. Complete at 26 schools between mid-August and mid-September, and only 2 rejections and 2 holds so far. I understand that I need to be patient, but I also can't count on patience getting me in.

I'm worried that maybe my PS and secondaries were weak, writing and introspection aren't my strong points. Also, I only started researching this past March and didn't have a LOR from my PI. I personally see those red flags under a magnifying glass, and am beginning to assume that they will be my downfall.


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[Mad Jack]

I do not have DO shadowing experience, but I can get some, just not in time to have a DO LOR.

I have an MD LOR. Which counts for something from what I hear. I have ~200 hours of hospital volunteering, 6 months of research so far, and leadership within a club.

3.4-3.5 sGPA, 3.5-3.6 cgpa, 36-38 mcat.

I'll probably apply to one school, then add more as the cycle progresses


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I used an MD LOR for all of my schools except 2, and received interview invites form all but two schools, if I remember correctly, out of around 18. Make sure you shadow a DO though, so you at least have some comment on DOs and their approach to medicine.

 

[cliquesh]

I do not have DO shadowing experience, but I can get some, just not in time to have a DO LOR.

I have an MD LOR. Which counts for something from what I hear. I have ~200 hours of hospital volunteering, 6 months of research so far, and leadership within a club.

3.4-3.5 sGPA, 3.5-3.6 cgpa, 36-38 mcat.

I'll probably apply to one school, then add more as the cycle progresses


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I wouldn't apply to DO schools this year. Your stats are good enough for MD. I'd fix whatever is wrong with your application and reapply MD and DO next year.

 

[deleted407021]

I used an MD LOR for all of my schools except 2, and received interview invites form all but two schools, if I remember correctly, out of around 18. Make sure you shadow a DO though, so you at least have some comment on DOs and their approach to medicine.

The DOs is a good resource as well.

 

[cabinbuilder]

I do not have DO shadowing experience, but I can get some, just not in time to have a DO LOR.

I have an MD LOR. Which counts for something from what I hear. I have ~200 hours of hospital volunteering, 6 months of research so far, and leadership within a club.

3.4-3.5 sGPA, 3.5-3.6 cgpa, 36-38 mcat.

I'll probably apply to one school, then add more as the cycle progresses


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So you have that high an MCAT and you only apply to one school? Can I kick your ass now???? WTF????? What is wrong with you???

 

[SkipJunior]

Guys I'm not beating a dead horse here, I realize that DO doctors are just as able and even receive additional training within the same fields as MD.

However, I've heard and seen evidence that it is more difficult to land some residencies for DOs including surgery and anesthesiology. Can someone give me some unbiased perspective on this? Since surgery is an umbrella term for many different specialties that I may take particular interest for, I would hate to have so many options closed to me before I even get to weigh them.

Also, I'm still hoping on MD II's, Ive been complete between August and September at all schools. What do you guys think about submitting my DO application in 2 weeks. That way I can def. know where I stand with MD schools before I get a fair shot at DO.


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Your chances are significantly lower at DO schools since you are applying so late. Submitting your AACOMAS app in 2 weeks time might mean that you may only be complete by early next year and actually interview on March 2015 or later. If you insist on applying this year, I suggest you apply to schools that cherish a high mcat score like Touro NY and Touro CA. Also LUCOM is another option since that seems to be quite easy to get into.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Guys I'm not beating a dead horse here, I realize that DO doctors are just as able and even receive additional training within the same fields as MD.

However, I've heard and seen evidence that it is more difficult to land some residencies for DOs including surgery and anesthesiology. Can someone give me some unbiased perspective on this? Since surgery is an umbrella term for many different specialties that I may take particular interest for, I would hate to have so many options closed to me before I even get to weigh them.

Also, I'm still hoping on MD II's, Ive been complete between August and September at all schools. What do you guys think about submitting my DO application in 2 weeks. That way I can def. know where I stand with MD schools before I get a fair shot at DO.


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This is pretty simple stuff: US MD > DO > Carib. Don't ever choose a DO school over an MD school (US) unless you have a very good reason (e.g. family or scholarship).

I do not have DO shadowing experience, but I can get some, just not in time to have a DO LOR.

I have an MD LOR. Which counts for something from what I hear. I have ~200 hours of hospital volunteering, 6 months of research so far, and leadership within a club.

3.4-3.5 sGPA, 3.5-3.6 cgpa, 36-38 mcat.

I'll probably apply to one school, then add more as the cycle progresses

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If you're single and under 27, don't rush this. Just fix your problems and apply MD and 3-5 DO backups.

 

[user3]

Honestly, even if submitting in January, as long as OP were to apply to enough schools he would still likely get in somewhere- although he would have to be less picky.

That being said, the application is definitely workable for getting into a solid MD school next cycle if this year's MD cycle doesn't work out.

 

[Promethean]

The DO cycle is a lot longer than MD, but if you haven't submitted a DO primary at this point, just don't. Up until the end of October, I was still preaching hope for people to submit their primary, but we have reached the point where you are likely just going to be wasting your money and time. It may be possible to still find a seat with such a late application, but your chances have diminished to the point that it would be a better idea to start fresh in the spring.

Regarding the dogma surrounding the relative value of degrees. I think MD=DO>>>Carib. This is because I work with a number of DOs in competitive surgical specialties who were able to enter those specialties over a decade ago when DO bias was worse. Optho, ENT, Ortho, etc. Such DOs aren't rare at my local top notch university medical system, and several of them are on faculty, teaching the medical students at the MD school. As for anesthesia? It seems to me that at about 20-25% of the current residents and fellows rotating through my OR are DOs. All these DOs are treated with the same respect as any of their MD counterparts, and no one makes any issue of where they went to school.

If you don't get in somewhere this cycle, have both your MD and DO apps ready to submit on the first day of the next. Apply broadly and with confidence that it isn't about where you go to school, but what you make of it while you are there, which will determine what opportunities you may pursue after.

 

[user3]

The DO cycle is a lot longer than MD, but if you haven't submitted a DO primary at this point, just don't. Up until the end of October, I was still preaching hope for people to submit their primary, but we have reached the point where you are likely just going to be wasting your money and time. It may be possible to still find a seat with such a late application, but your chances have diminished to the point that it would be a better idea to start fresh in the spring.

Regarding the dogma surrounding the relative value of degrees. I think MD=DO>>>Carib. This is because I work with a number of DOs in competitive surgical specialties who were able to enter those specialties over a decade ago when DO bias was worse. Optho, ENT, Ortho, etc. Such DOs aren't rare at my local top notch university medical system, and several of them are on faculty, teaching the medical students at the MD school. As for anesthesia? It seems to me that at about 20-25% of the current residents and fellows rotating through my OR are DOs. All these DOs are treated with the same respect as any of their MD counterparts, and no one makes any issue of where they went to school.

If you don't get in somewhere this cycle, have both your MD and DO apps ready to submit on the first day of the next. Apply broadly and with confidence that it isn't about where you go to school, but what you make of it while you are there, which will determine what opportunities you may pursue after.

FWIW, I remember somebody here that wasn't complete until FEBRUARY with ~3.2/25. They still got interviews to 4/8 schools they applied to. This was a couple of year ago though.

There are some schools that extend ii's as late as May, and have decent waitlist movement. Late app is a disadvantage, but NOT the kiss of death at every school like many paint it out to be. If you're complete at 10+ schools by the end of Feb with solid numbers, you still have a good chance.

 

[Promethean]

FWIW, I remember somebody here that wasn't complete until FEBRUARY with ~3.2/25. They still got interviews to 4/8 schools they applied to. This was a couple of year ago though.

There are some schools that extend ii's as late as May, and have decent waitlist movement. Late app is a disadvantage, but NOT the kiss of death at every school like many paint it out to be. If you're complete at 10+ schools by the end of Feb with solid numbers, you still have a good chance.

I don't dispute this.. but February isn't that far away. So, dude is talking about not submitting the primary until two weeks from now. So, mid november. AACOMAS still has to verify it, submit it to schools, and then the schools have to decide whether to send out secondaries. I think that it is pushing it to have everything complete by February if OP hasn't even started the process.

And there is something to be said for starting fresh in the spring when every seat is open, as opposed to trailing this far behind when so many seats have been claimed.

 

[AsclepiusDO]

It is not for anesthesiology. I spent 100 hours shadowing a DO Anesthesiologist in the OR this summer and HALF of the anesthesiologists were DOs. If you think about that, it's actually over represented considering that only 8-10% of physicians are DOs. But out of 70 anesthesiologists, I'd say 30 were DOs

 

[AsclepiusDO]

In this day and age, the only people who think a DO degree isn't as competitive as an MD degree are pre-med students. Plain and simple.

 

[deleted407021]

In this day and age, the only people who think a DO degree isn't as competitive as an MD degree are pre-med students. Plain and simple.

Maybe not a full 1:1 but definitely getting there, considering the trend. I'd say they will be equal in they eyes of the majority soon.

 

[AsclepiusDO]

Maybe not a full 1:1 but definitely getting there, considering the trend. I'd say they will be equal in they eyes of the majority soon.

Yeah...I just really looked into the anesthesiology thing because that's the field I want to practice, but I also was set on being a DO and not an MD lol.

 

[doapplicant2015]

Acgme general surgery is do able as a DO. Other acgme surgical residencies, with the exception of perhaps Ophthalmology, are unlikely as a DO.

This is the first I have read or heard of this concerning optho.

Have you seen DO's in ACGME optho positions?

 

[AsclepiusDO]

I worked with an ACGME orthopedic surgeon who was a DO

 

[AsclepiusDO]

And he was a machine

 

[Goro]

Based upon how the cycle works at my school, if your secondaries are received here by date X, in six weeks you'd get an II. Therefore, if you're only submitting your primary now, I'm worried that you'd be interviewing by late Jan/early-mid Feb, by which time we start start getting a lot more picky in who we accept. By March, we're almost filled our Class, and so you'd be interviewing for a spot on a wait list, most likely. Keep in mind that we're also seeing more apps this year and the stats of the applicants are going up as well, which mirrors what's happening for the MD schools.

Thus, I'm tempted to advise seeing how the current cycle goes for MD schools, and then, if you're shut out, aim for DO schools in the next cycle, for which you'd be super competitive. In addition, get feedback (from those schools that give it) on why you were rejected.

My grads have no problem going into competitive ACGME specialties, but most opt for Primary Care. Those who go for the former have told me that they "had to work harder to get them", but get them they did. Keep in mind that competitive specialties are competitive for a reason, and even for MDs they're difficult to get into.

But as I like to also advise, first get into medical school, before worrying about specialty.

Guys I'm not beating a dead horse here, I realize that DO doctors are just as able and even receive additional training within the same fields as MD.

However, I've heard and seen evidence that it is more difficult to land some residencies for DOs including surgery and anesthesiology. Can someone give me some unbiased perspective on this? Since surgery is an umbrella term for many different specialties that I may take particular interest for, I would hate to have so many options closed to me before I even get to weigh them.

Also, I'm still hoping on MD II's, Ive been complete between August and September at all schools. What do you guys think about submitting my DO application in 2 weeks. That way I can def. know where I stand with MD schools before I get a fair shot at DO.


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[YourMD]

Guys I'm not beating a dead horse here, I realize that DO doctors are just as able and even receive additional training within the same fields as MD.

However, I've heard and seen evidence that it is more difficult to land some residencies for DOs including surgery and anesthesiology. Can someone give me some unbiased perspective on this? Since surgery is an umbrella term for many different specialties that I may take particular interest for, I would hate to have so many options closed to me before I even get to weigh them.

Also, I'm still hoping on MD II's, Ive been complete between August and September at all schools. What do you guys think about submitting my DO application in 2 weeks. That way I can def. know where I stand with MD schools before I get a fair shot at DO.


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You have already gotten some great advice here so I will refrain from being redundant. However, Please make your thread titles more specific. This whole sub-forum is " Regarding DO". Thank you!

 

[DenTony11235]

Based upon how the cycle works at my school, if your secondaries are received here by date X, in six weeks you'd get an II. Therefore, if you're only submitting your primary now, I'm worried that you'd be interviewing by late Jan/early-mid Feb, by which time we start start getting a lot more picky in who we accept. By March, we're almost filled our Class, and so you'd be interviewing for a spot on a wait list, most likely. Keep in mind that we're also seeing more apps this year and the stats of the applicants are going up as well, which mirrors what's happening for the MD schools.

Thus, I'm tempted to advise seeing how the current cycle goes for MD schools, and then, if you're shut out, aim for DO schools in the next cycle, for which you'd be super competitive. In addition, get feedback (from those schools that give it) on why you were rejected.

My grads have no problem going into competitive ACGME specialties, but most opt for Primary Care. Those who go for the former have told me that they "had to work harder to get them", but get them they did. Keep in mind that competitive specialties are competitive for a reason, and even for MDs they're difficult to get into.

But as I like to also advise, first get into medical school, before worrying about specialty.

It's as I've thought. I just wish there was an answer to this question that wholly satisfies me. I'm in my second gap year, the thought of a third is very unsettling. Thank you for the thought-out input.

You have already gotten some great advice here so I will refrain from being redundant. However, Please make your thread titles more specific. This whole sub-forum is " Regarding DO". Thank you!

Will do. I just had a very general question.




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[hallowmann]

It's as I've thought. I just wish there was an answer to this question that wholly satisfies me. I'm in my second gap year, the thought of a third is very unsettling. Thank you for the thought-out input.



Will do. I just had a very general question.




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Honestly, I agree to see where this cycle takes you before applying DO. If worst case scenario is you start a year later, its better that you have more DO options than you might if you were to apply now. I also think its still early.

Have you applied broadly MD? Mainly mid-lower tier? Its surprising to me that you haven't gotten much in terms of MD ii's.

Also, don't just leave those schools hanging. Consider calling, asking for app status, or giving updates with new ECs, grades, etc. You've heard crickets from 22 schools. Make it clear to them you're interested, and even consider those "in the area" messages if you find yourself close to some of those schools.

 

[DenTony11235]

Honestly, I agree to see where this cycle takes you before applying DO. If worst case scenario is you start a year later, its better that you have more DO options than you might if you were to apply now. I also think its still early.

Have you applied broadly MD? Mainly mid-lower tier? Its surprising to me that you haven't gotten much in terms of MD ii's.

Also, don't just leave those schools hanging. Consider calling, asking for app status, or giving updates with new ECs, grades, etc. You've heard crickets from 22 schools. Make it clear to them you're interested, and even consider those "in the area" messages if you find yourself close to some of those schools.

I did apply broadly, with only 2-3 reach schools.
Would you just recommend getting the admissions office email off of MSAR? Any advice on how to word it to not sound annoying/desperate and respectful?

 

[SkipJunior]

I did apply broadly, with only 2-3 reach schools.
Would you just recommend getting the admissions office email off of MSAR? Any advice on how to word it to not sound annoying/desperate and respectful?

You can get the admissions office email off their admissions site too. Maybe you can ask if your application is complete or your current application status. Try to ask as if you're concerned that some part of your app might be missing or not have been processed.

You can also submit update letters (several schools have portals where you can upload update letters). Make sure the update letters have solid stuff you would like to update them on like new grades, new ECs, etc.

 

[DenTony11235]

You can get the admissions office email off their admissions site too. Maybe you can ask if your application is complete or your current application status. Try to ask as if you're concerned that some part of your app might be missing or not have been processed.

You can also submit update letters (several schools have portals where you can upload update letters). Make sure the update letters have solid stuff you would like to update them on like new grades, new ECs, etc.

Very useful advice. Thank you.


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[Seth Joo]

Guys I'm not beating a dead horse here, I realize that DO doctors are just as able and even receive additional training within the same fields as MD.

However, I've heard and seen evidence that it is more difficult to land some residencies for DOs including surgery and anesthesiology. Can someone give me some unbiased perspective on this? Since surgery is an umbrella term for many different specialties that I may take particular interest for, I would hate to have so many options closed to me before I even get to weigh them.

Also, I'm still hoping on MD II's, Ive been complete between August and September at all schools. What do you guys think about submitting my DO application in 2 weeks. That way I can def. know where I stand with MD schools before I get a fair shot at DO.


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Some DO schools tend to emphasize that they want to produce primary care physicians, this is the case for many DO schools. So that is why you see more DOs in Primary Care and less competitive fields of medicine.

Its still possible as a DO to match into competitive programs, but I can tell you its harder as a DO compared to a US MD.

I went through the admissions process for MD and DO, I only got one interview at an MD school and then was rejected. I got over eight interviews at DO schools. If you have been out of school or are an older applicant MD schools tend to look less favorably upon your application.

 

[D4C]

Some DO schools tend to emphasize that they want to produce primary care physicians, this is the case for many DO schools. So that is why you see more DOs in Primary Care and less competitive fields of medicine.

Its still possible as a DO to match into competitive programs, but I can tell you its harder as a DO compared to a US MD.

I went through the admissions process for MD and DO, I only got one interview at an MD school and then was rejected. I got over eight interviews at DO schools. If you have been out of school or are an older applicant MD schools tend to look less favorably upon your application.

I disagree. DO applications tend to be overall less competitive for matching into a competitive residency. The number of people that actually care about a schools mission do not make up the majority at my institution.

 

[Seth Joo]

I disagree. DO applications tend to be overall less competitive for matching into a competitive residency. The number of people that actually care about a schools mission do not make up the majority at my institution.

I said its harder to match into a competitive field as a DO but there are people who accomplish this, you have to work harder.
Most DO schools have a culture that promotes primary care medicine and OMM. There are other schools that operate more like MD schools.

 

[hallowmann]

I said its harder to match into a competitive field as a DO but there are people who accomplish this, you have to work harder.
Most DO schools have a culture that promotes primary care medicine and OMM. There are other schools that operate more like MD schools.

Add to it that at some schools most of your MS2 profs are PCPs/former PCPs, most core rotations really emphasize primary care (literally your only exposure in M3 to specialties, not counting OB and Psych, are 2 or less electives), and most OPTIs and affiliates mostly have PC residency programs.

There is some level of self selection, but plenty of DO schools push PC all the way. To be fair though, many MD schools (mostly rural schools with missions) also do that, which is probably why the percentage of grads from those schools that enter PC programs is roughly equal to the percentage of DO grads that enter PC programs.

 

[Ctrost]

How about do's getting internal med fellowships like cardiology etc.

 

[cliquesh]

How about do's getting internal med fellowships like cardiology etc.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/chartingoutcomessms2011.pdf

Look at table 2 on page 4.

 

[DrEnderW]

How about do's getting internal med fellowships like cardiology etc.

To maximize your chances, you'll want to shoot for an ACGME university program for IM. In order to maximize that possibility, you should plan to take the USMLE from day one and, if interested, get involved in publishable research. All very obtainable.