Regarding FM salaries I recently realized as a med student

[coralfangs]

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For the longest time, I've heard from multiple students and FM attendings complaining about salaries and lifestyle of PCP/FMP, especially those who are going out of business. I somewhat believed them and thought about staying away from FM because I fear of closing down my practice in the future too (still deciding between Ob, Peds and FM).
Recently, I talked to a doctor who told me that his brother (who I also know personally) are closing down his FM practice because of the whole medicare, mediaid issue, blah blah. At first, I was like, "sigh.... it's not looking good for the FM docs or those who want to go into FM" but then I realize that a lot of these "bankrupting" docs may not be working hard enough to earn what they expect.
During my research month, I had so much free time so I spent many afternoons in various cafes, wine bars across town. Because the city is kinda small, I often bump into said "brother" coming home from work in the afternoon. I mean, he often worked less hours than I did during my research month, which is quite impressive.
Of course, it's not possible to pull in $500k+ doing FM but I strongly believe that if you are working 50+ hrs per week and working 5 days a week like a normal human being, it is possible to earn around the average physician salary after expenses ($200k+).

Besides, I was browsing through the FM thread earlier and noticed that many med students like to compare FM salaries to businessman salaries.
Yes, FM make $200k and there are businessmen (w/ MBA) who also make $200k but businessmen don't necessarily work less hours like many of those med students assume.
As someone who went to a top business school, I can tell you that many people in the business world work their butts off in order to advance (many clocking in 15hrs a day). Many MBAs having starting salaries in the low 100s and it takes years of hard work AND luck in order to climb up the corporate ladder. On the other hand, FM, GP, and other PCP are pretty much guaranteed a salary of $175 (on average) when they graduate.

Same **** with many other professions including lawyers. Hell, a friend of mine who graduated from Harvard law often work til 2-3 am in a Manhattan firm. He basically rented a condo beside the firm in order to afford his job.


Just my 2 cents...

 

[mx_599]

Just my 2 cents...

thanks!

I will sleep better now

😴

 

[coralfangs]

thanks!

I will sleep better now

😴

well thack you very much. Don't tell me you are one of those who are complaining about how much you make? 🙄

 

[MOHS_01]

For the longest time, I've heard from multiple students and FM attendings complaining about salaries and lifestyle of PCP/FMP, especially those who are going out of business. I somewhat believed them and thought about staying away from FM because I fear of closing down my practice in the future too (still deciding between Ob, Peds and FM).
Recently, I talked to a doctor who told me that his brother (who I also know personally) are closing down his FM practice because of the whole medicare, mediaid issue, blah blah. At first, I was like, "sigh.... it's not looking good for the FM docs or those who want to go into FM" but then I realize that a lot of these "bankrupting" docs may not be working hard enough to earn what they expect.
During my research month, I had so much free time so I spent many afternoons in various cafes, wine bars across town. Because the city is kinda small, I often bump into said "brother" coming home from work in the afternoon. I mean, he often worked less hours than I did during my research month, which is quite impressive.
Of course, it's not possible to pull in $500k+ doing FM but I strongly believe that if you are working 50+ hrs per week and working 5 days a week like a normal human being, it is possible to earn around the average physician salary after expenses ($200k+).

Besides, I was browsing through the FM thread earlier and noticed that many med students like to compare FM salaries to businessman salaries.
Yes, FM make $200k and there are businessmen (w/ MBA) who also make $200k but businessmen don't necessarily work less hours like many of those med students assume.
As someone who went to a top business school, I can tell you that many people in the business world work their butts off in order to advance (many clocking in 15hrs a day). Many MBAs having starting salaries in the low 100s and it takes years of hard work AND luck in order to climb up the corporate ladder. On the other hand, FM, GP, and other PCP are pretty much guaranteed a salary of $175 (on average) when they graduate.

Same **** with many other professions including lawyers. Hell, a friend of mine who graduated from Harvard law often work til 2-3 am in a Manhattan firm. He basically rented a condo beside the firm in order to afford his job.


Just my 2 cents...

1. Your avatar is disturbing. Simply disturbing. And gross.

2. Lots of truth in the above post. Don't expect to garner much karma for it on a medical forum, though.

3. It is natural for people to decry their current situation and seek something better. That in and of itself is not a problem; the problem comes in when people make a (less than perfect based upon the posteriori measure of income) major decision (such as specialty choice, career choice, practice choice, which house to buy, etc) -- one that has plenty of information readily available to make an informed decision a priori -- and then seek to leverage the power of the state to force change to their benefit. This is not done with conscious and sinister intent, however, and that must be recognized; they are merely seeking to address what they perceive as unfair inequalities.

 

[ozzidoc]

1. Your avatar is disturbing. Simply disturbing. And gross.

You find breastfeeding gross?

 

[coralfangs]

You find breastfeeding gross?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OkcucXIuVI




In response to 01, I agree totally. It's just heartbreaking to see many qualified and even excellent applicants who would otherwise fit well in the field of FM or other PCP turned into other specialties because they oversimplify the current job markets based on the limited info out there (especially the typical, "doctor salary" search I believe a lot of them have done....)

 

[staup]

There are tons and tons of MBAs who don't make 100 K, don't kid yourself that an MBA is an automatic ticket to a 6 figure salary, it's not even close. The average MBA salary is between 100 and 120 K (being optimistic), so half of all MBAs earn less than that.

If it's an MBA from a top 5 place, maybe, but they can be difficult to get, of course.

Of course, physicians these days can have a huge amount of school loans as well as give up nearly 10 years of their earning power whihc must be factored into the equation, but the average cost of an MBA is also about 100k.

 

[Charlie0318]

Of course, physicians these days can have a huge amount of school loans as well as give up nearly 10 years of their earning power whihc must be factored into the equation, but the average cost of an MBA is also about 100k.

From my experience though it is pretty typical for a person to work for a year or two and then have their employer pay for the MBA. That way they continue to work full time and get paid as well as not have to worry about loans for school.

That said I still agree that a FP's salary is going to be better, especially at the start, then an MBA.

 

[staup]

From my experience though it is pretty typical for a person to work for a year or two and then have their employer pay for the MBA. That way they continue to work full time and get paid as well as not have to worry about loans for school.

That said I still agree that a FP's salary is going to be better, especially at the start, then an MBA.

That is usually not true of the higher end MBAs, most do not offer night classes, although some do. I'll agree that most MBAs do not cost 100K, but the elite ones certainly do.

 

[bronx43]

Of course, physicians these days can have a huge amount of school loans as well as give up nearly 10 years of their earning power whihc must be factored into the equation, but the average cost of an MBA is also about 100k.

A top 7 MBA would cost you close to $130-150k, due to location and the numerous costly events they attend.

 

[bronx43]

A lot of the malcontent in primary care specialties isn't exactly brought on by the fear of the worst case scenario - one that their field would crumble as a whole under unsustainably low reimbursement rates. It's more that there are far more lucrative specialties out there with equally amenable lifestyles. This sort of "argument from catastrophic perspectives" with underlying financially driven motives is also seen when medical students and physicians bemoan their ability to pay off loans should the highly lucrative fields get their reimbursement rates cut.