• Funniest Story on the Job Contest Starts Now!

    Contest starts now and ends September 27th. Winner will receive a special user banner and $10 Amazon Gift card!

    JOIN NOW
  • Site Updates Coming Next Week

    Site updates are coming next week on Monday and Friday. Click the button below to learn more!

    LEARN MORE

Regarding radiology residency

Status
Not open for further replies.

UserB1234

Membership Revoked
Removed
Jun 15, 2020
10
3
1
  1. Attending Physician
Hi Everyone,
I'm an attending radiologist. I'm specifically a neuroradiologist. I wanted to provide folks, especially the youth and the medical student community with an overview of my experiences throughout medical school, radiology residency, public/academic/private enterprise. If you have any questions, feel free to shoot. I may provide a contrarian viewpoint, but I want to make sure that medical students are fully equipped with the knowledge to make the right career decisions. All the best, and I'd love to hear from you. AMA session is a go!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users

drstranger

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Nov 2, 2016
502
715
136
  1. Medical Student
Hi I am an incoming OMS-1 very interested in DR and interested in university programs. How important is research? and how do you suggest getting exposed to radiology early especially since its not a 3rd-year core rotation?
 
About the Ads

ilovecostco

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Jul 18, 2019
17
15
86
  1. Medical Student (Accepted)
Can a practicing radiologist switch from private practice to academics or vice versa? Or are you locked into whichever practice setting you work in following fellowship?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

LittleFoot

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Apr 18, 2014
127
146
216
  1. Resident [Any Field]
Are there Radiology Fellowships that cater better to certain personality types? I know Neuroradiologists are known for being "anal" (sorry haha). What about the other specialties?
 

daffy duck

Full Member
5+ Year Member
Jul 2, 2014
59
16
136
  1. Medical Student
what is the approach one should take during rads residency ~ starting in two weeks and I have no idea what to do/read. DO people take notes during read out session, lecture.... how to read each night for daily work/rotations
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

UserB1234

Membership Revoked
Removed
Jun 15, 2020
10
3
1
  1. Attending Physician
What advice do you have for somebody preparing to start R1 year in two short weeks?

Hi there,
I would be happy to provide you with study material and study information. However, do not be disappointed if going forward I will be providing an argument against going into radiology residency. My position is that the field is in a severe decline, and a lot of that has to do with bankrupt leadership.

Nevertheless, my recommendation is as follows.
2 short weeks? memorize the following book--
CORE Radiology by Jacob Mandell

Crack the Core Exam by "Prometheus Lionheart"

I advise immediate rote memorization of everything in this book.


That's just for two weeks. Overtime, you will need to read one hour a night; that's if you want to be an excellent radiologist.

I can't tell you how unwise the professors in this field are; how incredibly arrogant and how incredibly unwise. There is a general lack of maturity throughout infrastructure and institutions of this field.
 

UserB1234

Membership Revoked
Removed
Jun 15, 2020
10
3
1
  1. Attending Physician
Hi I am an incoming OMS-1 very interested in DR and interested in university programs. How important is research? and how do you suggest getting exposed to radiology early especially since its not a 3rd-year core rotation?

That's a great question. I actually recommend not going into radiology. The field is in severe decline; salaries are going and have been cut drastically--for example, folks are getting paid about 180-250k for a 6 year time-intensive post-graduate training system. It's not worth it anymore. And there are gross industrial macro-structural things occurring which will not only marginalize the radiologist, but make the field intensely more unreliable. A lot of this is because of poor leadership at the institutional level.
I mean, I remember the chair of UCSF coming to our program saying "it's not about the money. it's not about the money. the field is so rewarding." I found very distasteful, that an individual who had such deep pockets was coming to us telling us that the emerging paycuts was something we should be find so easy to swallow.

Consider medical or surgical disciplines. The good news is you have a lot of time to see what fields are the best match for you!
 

UserB1234

Membership Revoked
Removed
Jun 15, 2020
10
3
1
  1. Attending Physician
do you still recommend radiology to medical students?
I absolutely do not recommend radiology for medical students.

This is a morally bankrupt field. The people who comprise this field lack moral fiber. I've seen far to much racism, sexism throughout the leadership in this field. And it's not just that, it's the combination of poor character, poor leadership, poor manners; that has necessarily led us to incur lower and lower and lower compensation. There is a reason the medical community is on the verge of disavowing radiologists--because many of them lack wisdom.

The folks in this field lack vision. The leadership in this field lacks vision. For some reason, the people in the field of radiology have an incredibly low social IQ. There is a reason salary is now around 180k-250k. It's a multifaceted problem.

I remember a resident once complained that at Stanford, their neuroradiology depart was "hole in the wall" radiology, because literally, they had a hole in the wall, and had 7 computers in a janitor's closet--i kid you not.

There are so many problems in the field, and leadership refuses to manage issues properly. There is this movement from private equity, and they are taking over the entire infrastructure and the entire billing apparatus--and this also applies to academics and university. As a result, because they have so much power that is unchecked, they pay the doctor pennies on the dollar. This has occurred in general because of a lack of motivated vision at the professional level and at the leadership level by way of the ABR and the ACR. These institutions favor big corporations. As a result of the way higher level institutions have acted, and due to the inherent nature of the radiologists in this profession, there is not much that can be done.

I would not recommend radiology to my own family members, and it would not be right for me to recommend it to you.
I would consider medicine or other surgical specialties.

Radiologists will not be able to re-capture their own field, there is inherent character weakness.

I wish you the best of luck.
 

UserB1234

Membership Revoked
Removed
Jun 15, 2020
10
3
1
  1. Attending Physician
Can a practicing radiologist switch from private practice to academics or vice versa? Or are you locked into whichever practice setting you work in following fellowship?

For some reason, radiologists make up and fabricate narratives. They love to say that you can't switch to academics after private; but you can go to private after academics. In my experience, this reflects the lack of truth folks in the field live by.

What I've noticed is that if you are a good radiologist, you can always go back to academics--but you have to make sure that you have ample publications in residency. In fact, in my experience, private sector HATES hiring academic radiologists--because academic radiologists lack skill, lack motivation, lack efficiency, and sadly lack logic and the ability to rationalize a complex case. In private practice, I know I would never choose someone who was "professor", because I know how slow, petty, arrogant, uncooperative they are. Academic radiologists are just not fit for private practice.

And inherent in this paradox, in this dichotomy, is why the field is degenerating and failing. Academic radiologists hold positions of power in the ABR and ACR and lack gritty on the ground private sector experience, exacerbating the intolerable situation and allowing for private equity to destroy the science and the medicine of radiology. The lack of global perspective in the ABR and the ACR; and its refusal to achieve parity with business enterprise is going to lead to a massive decline in compensation.
 

UserB1234

Membership Revoked
Removed
Jun 15, 2020
10
3
1
  1. Attending Physician
Are there Radiology Fellowships that cater better to certain personality types? I know Neuroradiologists are known for being "anal" (sorry haha). What about the other specialties?

As you develop and mature, you'll note that uncertainty breeds certain kinds of behaviors. It's rather fascinating. I think folks who are characterized as "anal" appear to have little visibility in their profession. By that I mean, because you don't recognize the a priori truth of the lesion you see, you become obsessed with the truth, and that causes your personality to develop a certain way.

My best advice is read, read, read. Study Study Study. Those invested in their work have the most positive and assertive mindsets--such people will contribute to their field in a remarkably positive way.

Unfortunately, the field of radiology, long ago has disavowed and discouraged such folks from entering the field--as there are gross structural issues that exist in our field.
 
About the Ads

UserB1234

Membership Revoked
Removed
Jun 15, 2020
10
3
1
  1. Attending Physician
As I discussed before, I want to make sure that folks enter this field educated and informed. I'm happy to see folks thinking I'm a "troll". You're entitled to your opinion and your viewpoint. I simply ask that for each such post, you also add one line about how you would like to see radiology improved.

Again, I just want to educate and inform the public. And I will do so based off my private sector and academic public sector experience.
 

halpmepls

Full Member
5+ Year Member
Jan 21, 2016
43
65
156
  1. Pre-Medical

Here is a link to the thread that Neopolymath referenced from AuntMinnie which likely features the same OP as here. Some of the other posters there present an alternative viewpoint to the OP's stance that I would recommend considering. For instance, this individual's claims about radiologist compensation are factually inaccurate. Medscape's most recent Physician Compensation Report lists radiologists as earning, on average, over $400,000 annually. See below for reference.

1592430194316.png

I welcome OP to present opinions here but it seems pretty clear his/her only intention is to scare medical students away from Radiology and take potshots at the moral and ethical composition of whoever disagrees
 
Last edited:

seeingthings

New Member
Dec 11, 2018
7
8
11
Yeah was hoping to actually get some meaningful advice, but very clearly a troll. If you’re that unhappy with what you’re doing switch to a different specialty, which is what I’m doing.. going from medicine to rads, wish you luck with your unhappy life OP. All the radiologists I’ve talked to are VERY happy. Most say I’m making the best decision of my life.
 

UserB1234

Membership Revoked
Removed
Jun 15, 2020
10
3
1
  1. Attending Physician
Unfortunately, those numbers, time and time again, those specifically obtained for example from Netscape are inaccurate. There is almost no one in the field that makes that much. I did the same thing when I was a medical student-you find these public articles, published online, no references; but they are nowhere near the truth. I advise you to call some of the major private sector firms, in order to personally confirm the values. I just finished speaking with a friend, and he had to move his home and his three kids because he could no longer afford where he was, and he had to move to Virginia.

My point here is to be informed before making any decisions. Self-confirmation bias by pulling up articles is something to be careful about. Like using wikipedia prior to initiating a college thesis/essay, it's a starting point but it's not the entire truth. I'm not here to upset anyone, and I apologize if my narrative does not match one's future vision, hopes, aspirations, dreams. But folks ought to be educated and informed about the decisions they make, and the moral caliber and the logical acumen of folks in the field of radiology is lacking.

I've been doing this for a little over a decade now, and I've since realized that leadership is lacking, that guardianship and tutelage is lacking, that instruction is lacking, and that training is meaningless and pathetic--and especially so at the major university tertiary/quaternary care centers. Radiology is a dead field.

When you leave residency, I assure you there is a scarcity and a dearth of jobs--there is no one at the program level there to help you find a job as folks in academia have no connection to the private sector world, yet 80% of people in radiology go on to private equity markets. The statistics provided are untruthful. The average salary for a radiologist is about $200,000.

This has occurred as a result of years and years of institutional degradation. The leadership has failed to renew and reform the field. I just want medical students to think about this; to ask questions; to interview their local radiology chairs; to interview their local radiology faculty; and likewise do the same with internal medicine and surgical disciplines. After you're done asking questions, I ask you to ask yourself: Who is the better role model?
 

Kuratz

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Oct 13, 2011
178
818
216
  1. Resident [Any Field]
This is such a load of nonsense.

Official MGMA data is as follows: 1592493894290.png

Those numbers are from 2017 data, and presumably have at minimum kept stable if not increased. These numbers are the gold standard for negotiating a contract. The onus is on you to prove otherwise rather than blankety say that they are wrong by 1.5 standard deviations. I’m sorry that your friend (and probably you based on your saltiness) took jobs that pay extremely below the median. To further prove how nonsensical your post is, anyone can go look up academic salaries at state-sponsored institutions. In desirable areas like San Diego and Denver the assistant professors start in the high 3xx. These are arguably some of the “worst” compensated jobs out there because they are academic in desirable areas and still make nearly double what you suggest. It’s important to be transparent with these numbers so to prove to lurkers and suggestible med students considering Rads that you are nothing more than a troll who decided to take your unhappiness out on an online forum. I hope you can find happiness with your career.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 7 users

UserB1234

Membership Revoked
Removed
Jun 15, 2020
10
3
1
  1. Attending Physician
Those numbers are pure nonsense.

You are misleading folks with such numbers. More important than anything is to be able to extract the truth by verifying on the ground facts yourself.

"Trust but Verify."

And so, I urge medical students to call large radiology firms and ask exactly what the salaries are. Just call them and ask. These numbers are not truthful.
I've been in private sector now for a decade, and these numbers are completely false. That is not what is on the ground, and most certainly does not capture reality.

Again, "Trust but Verify".

I have been in three of those major regions: Midwest, Southern, Eastern; and I assure you that those numbers do not exist.

This is the kind of immaturity of which I speak that comprises the field of radiology. A knee-jerk reaction is posited to immediately feed and influence your minds.

Here is the problem with those numbers. The amount posted may reflect the revenue generated by the professional billing profile, but that's where the caveats and tricks begin. You will never receive the full professional billing fee, as large private equity is taking about 75% of your professional fee (and so what is reported is the full 100%, not what the radiologist garners). And so while those values posted may represent what the full billing profile ought to be, it distorts the truth and distorts reality--that is, that 75% of the amount posted above goes directly to the hospital corporation and to the private equity "non-professional" aspect of things.

In fact, we see the same thing at the university level. The amount generated by radiology goes into a shared pot with all the other physicians and disciplines in the hospital. While radiology contributes to 50% of institutional revenue, their salary comprises less than 5% of what their full billing profile consists of--just ask your local radiology billing chapter "how much of the hospital's revenue is from radiology?"--and then, I ask you to do the math yourself.

I believe you are doing the medical students on this forum a huge disservice by lying to them. You are out of your mind suggesting to these kids, that salary potentials of up to 820k, exist. That simply is not the case in the field of radiology. Again, these numbers are not truthful and they do not represent on-the-ground material facts. Such numbers simply do not exist. As I said before, I ask medical students to personally call the major sector heads and major corporations in radiology; just call them. Are you going to base a lifelong decision on one chart/one graph that you saw online? I urge you to call them yourself.

"Trust but Verify"

I urge medical students to call radiology firms and determine exactly what the salaries are, so that you are not misled by these protean charts and figures--these misleading bits of material by a miscreant author. I have friends in Texas, Virginia, Colorado, Washington, California--this idiot who posted this figure is misleading you. I would be happy to direct medical students to direct personal sources of information so that you can properly make an informed decision.

---feel free to pm me (if thats possible) and I will give you direct info to radiology groups in the south/midwest/east, and I will even reach out to my friends in california--private practice radiologists throughout the country.---- You have to call out a liar when you see one.

"Trust but Verify".

Call the radiology firms yourself.
 

jazzman84

Destination darkroom
15+ Year Member
Jun 25, 2006
92
23
286
The potassium mines
  1. Fellow [Any Field]
What advice do you have for somebody preparing to start R1 year in two short weeks?

Relax. Do not try to cram studying into this time. You have no context for the information and it will be incredibly inefficient.

Also those salary numbers are accurate and may be on the low side from my experience.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

UserB1234

Membership Revoked
Removed
Jun 15, 2020
10
3
1
  1. Attending Physician
I urge people to do the research. Anyone can simply post numbers and craft and manufacture numbers. Like I said the most important thing is to do the research and call large radiology firms personally. In fact, do it right now.


Professionals in the field of radiology no longer have any say, no longer have any influence, no longer have any leverage over the hospital corporation. This decline is in the works and has been in the works for some time now. The field is rife with corrupt individuals who lack any proper moral discipline. As a result, the field is suffering a great deal. As the influx of poor characters continues to inflate the ranks of members in the field of radiology, the field will continue to suffer from institutional degradation. As more and more private equity, eats away and eats away at people's salaries, it is simply no longer worth it to go into the field of radiology. Those numbers posted above are greater than what some of the world's most renown neurosurgeons make and is extraordinarily suspect. But I don't want to mock it, because I do think it's important to have debate and dialogue on this issue. I already discussed what was wrong and what was lacking in those numbers. The revenue stream provided fails to capture the reality of how a physician's contract is formulated.

Now I will grant the respondent one major caveat and capitulation: if the group OWNS the imaging equipment and we're talking about millions and millions of dollars paid to actually BUY the MRI machine (a 1-3 million dollar entity--immense capital expenditure which a medical student loan prohibits), then, IF you do your own billing and bill for the technical component (typically 5-10% of your revenue stream), then maybe you can reach those numbers--but that is just not the case anymore. But I assure you, once someone pays off the loan for such equipment, there is no inherent desire to just donate shares of the technical company aspect to you. With regards to OWNERSHIP of technical equipment (very very rare today), I will be the first to admit a fair defeat, but by and large, for 95% of members of this field 180k-250k a year is what you are looking at (In Texas, the most lucrative place in America for radiology, I'll concede, you may be paid around 275k.). And IF you do own it, in order to break even after TEN years, you have to deliver a 90% utility rate. So imagine opening up your own center, even if you are successful at marketing your enterprise, it would take TEN years for you to break even.

I just want folks to be well-informed and be well-equipped with the truth and with material on the ground facts.

There is an extraordinary lack of leadership in the field and there is an extraordinary lack of thought at the policy level in this field. Because the ranks of people in academia is being filled with grotesque and dangerous characters: racists, sexists, nationalists, drug aficionados, power mongers, non-secular ideologies--there will be an emerging collapse in this field, as we are tossed by the wayside. My colleagues in the medical and surgical fields have already caught on, and they can barely trust radiologists because of their poor character. This will occur more and more, and hospitals and private sector jobs and academic jobs will continue to pay us less and less and less.

Now the lack of leverage over hospital corporations--the result of years of institutional degradation--is what concerns me the most, as it is directly leading to unsafe and dangerous results for the patients which we dearly serve. As radiologists, our fiduciary duty is to the patient; the hospital corporation has no such duty. Yet, radiologists, through their incompetence and immaturity have relegated and forsaken this duty to the hospital corporation. Radiologists no longer have any leverage over hospital corporations--it is not uncommon for a radiologist to say that a procedure or a study was dangerous to do but that they were forced to do it by the MBA at the hospital wearing the fancy expensive suit (likely derived from imaging revenue). Go on Aunt Minnie and ask: "Have you ever done a procedure you felt was unsafe or not indicated, but were forced to do it by the hospital corporation/company?" JUST ASK IT. The decrease in salaries is related to the lack of leverage--and is related to the dilution of proper checks and balances we are experiencing--and I predict, based off a decade of experience with Hospital Admin, Chairs, Chiefs of Staff--it's going to get a hell of a lot worse. From chairs at Yale and Hopkins prosecuted by the Department of Justice for fraud to Chairs in other places who have tested positive for meth--these are the kinds of people that fill the ranks of the field of radiology. Discrimination at Stanford by way of personal experience through an aberrant abnormal interview experience.


If the convicted individual in the third article was making the kind of BANK the respondent suggested, why would he need to deal drugs? And bill for it? Just think about it.

Some of these are premier university institutions convicted of major fraud and major drug abuse scandal. Just ask yourself, if you had a child, would you recommend radiology to them knowing the extent of corruption that exists in this field. My experience was just the tip of the iceberg; it's non-isolated and pervasive nature confirmed by research in the logs of the department of justice.

Certainly, there are policy measures that ought to be initiated to benefit the patient population, but leadership is adrift, aloof, without resolute situational awareness.

It is important for the medical student to be equipped with the full spectrum of the fact-pattern emerging in Radiology, and make a well-informed decision, underwritten in the truth.
 
About the Ads
Status
Not open for further replies.