Regrets?

[cb190]

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I'm about to start medical school in my mid-late 20's. I will be going in single, and lately I have been having cold feet thinking about how difficult it is going to be to balance this path with finding time to date, find a partner and have a family. For other non-trads who have been down this path, do you have regrets? Do you ever wish you had become a mid-level provider instead of going all the way? As a woman can you find time for a family (as in, having kids for the first time) as a non-trad?

 

[Tabiyou]

So I am 31 and about to start my second year.

I had a career before this and was a history major in undergrad + grad school.

I am not a female, so my experiences/views will be different than yours (starting a family, having kids, etc).

As hard as it is to believe, you will be happy you had a non-traditional route. What you are describing is normal, and how I felt last year. I am happy the way life paned out (Thank you God). Would not trade it for anything.

Edit - Spelling

 

[QofQuimica]

It's good that you're thinking about these things now, because despite what we may all wish were true, it is not the case that you can have absolutely everything in life. Medical training in particular is NOT family friendly, and it is unlikely to become family friendly while you are still in training (although there are some moves in that direction.) So you need to understand from the get go that if you are going to prioritize having a family (and spending as much time as possible with them), then you will need to carve that time away from your career. Medicine behaves like a gas that way: the time you spend at work expands to fill the entire container it finds itself in unless you take concrete steps to limit it. And that is often hard to do while you're in med school and especially residency. That being said, most people who are motivated to balance a family with a medical career do manage to find a compromise that works for them. It all depends on what you want out of life and how badly you want it.

I suggest that you start by doing two things. First, search in these forums for some of the previous posts by nontrad wives and mothers, and read about how they balanced their lives with their careers. You will see that there is not just one way to arrange things to successfully do both. Second, spend some time introspecting about what it means to YOU to be a "good" wife and mother. And be honest with yourself about the kind of person you are. Some people are just more organized, not to mention much better delegators, than others. If you're a good delegator, then you'll probably manage to balance a family with a career fairly well. If you're not, and odds are good that you wouldn't be asking this question if you were, then it's a skill you should give some serious thought to developing. Micromanagers and perfectionists definitely struggle more with balancing it all. I say this as a micromanager/perfectionist personality type who went in already knowing that I did NOT want to have a family of my own.

Hope this helps, and best of luck to you.

 

[star.buck]

Why do you want to be a physician, why did you decide on medical school vs. mid level?

 

[MedCat9]

Hi, female non-traditional 2nd year medical student here. I started med school in my late twenties, and honestly, balancing life in general is challenging. However, there is time (if you make time for yourself) to do other things outside of medicine and studying. I'm engaged, and my partner isn't in the medical field. They know and understand what my career will entail, and we make time for each other every day. One of my daily goals is to do something nice for myself, and since I love my partner, we usually do the activity together. I know a few people in my class who have kids or are expecting kids, and they all seem to be doing quite well. I find most people pop out a kid around the end of 4th year since you have a bit more time then lol. You just have to find a partner who is understanding in my opinion.

I don't regret becoming a doctor over a NP, PA, etc. I love what I'm doing, and I am so happy I have the privilege to do it. This is my passion, and there was nothing as amazing as sitting down with my first patient at clinic and being in the position to say "so tell me what brings you in today." What I'm trying to say is you can have your cake and eat it too. Becoming a doctor doesn't nullify your chances of having a healthy, happy life outside of your career. It just takes work.

 

[Crayola227]

eh, N=1, but my opinion of my own life is that I may well die alone and childless as a result of my pursuit of medicine, and that's having controlled for everything I can

life doesn't always worked out as planned

I always say that you shouldn't go into medicine if it isn't your addiction
defined as: continued pursuit in the face of increasing harms

I can't bring myself to regret my choice despite everything

don't do anything for which if you suffer the most negative outcome possible, you can't see yourself moving on and finding happiness in your life despite it
(conservative risk-averse advice, take it in the context of who it comes from)

plenty of people here will tell you anything is possible, and I'm just offering that everything *is* possible,
having your cake and eating it too, or doom and gloom. I think it's important that's considered as well.

 

[NontradICUdoc]

I am two years out from completing my fellowship in critical care and I'm about to turn 43. I started this whole process in my early 30s with the family. I have absolutely no regrets about my choice. Of course this is very individual and you have to look at your own personal situation very carefully.

 

[operaman]

Something a marine corps captain told my mom when she was a new marine:

You will marry in the circles in which you travel.

Medicine won't impair your ability to have a relationship and many relationships form between medical students and residents and physicians. Many find partners far outside the field. Yes it has its challenges and yes you will have to make some compromises, but I don't think this alone should dissuade you from pursuing it.

Medicine will take every second of time you're willing to give it. Every. Single. One. You will have to work at scheduling free time and doing non medical things that are important to you, but it's doable. There are many decision points where you can choose lifestyle and your personal life over medicine, and there are times when you cannot. All professions have this, but medicine is a unique beast in that these decisions can quickly compound (ie shunting too much time from study to social life early in med could lead to a step 1 score that precludes more lifestyle friendly fields later).

There are fields within medicine that are more conducive to interests outside medicine. Even notoriously brutal fields can be lifestyle friendly for the right person in the right situation. I think the MD gives you far more latitude in crafting your life and career than mid level degrees, but if you could be totally happy as a mid level provider, it sure seems like a faster route through training. Personally I wouldn't have been happy going that way because of what I want to do in this field, but that's just me.

At this point you've already been accepted and the difference in time is negligible, so I'd say push forward with medicine if it still interests you, but do so resolved to make choices therein that prioritize the things which are important to you.

 

[CyrilFiggis]

Relationships in med school can be difficult. You'll see for yourself that before Christmas, a good portion of your classmates that came in with boyfriends/girlfriends break up. This is especially true for more traditional students. One person is now in the real world, works 9-5 and has more free time now that they aren't studying in the evening. The other is now drinking from the firehose trying to memorize the brachial plexus and the complement system. It becomes a matter of attention and where we focus it.

The thing is, you can make it work. You just have to be open and transparent with each other. If you find a partner outside of your school, talk to them about your schedule. My spouse and I share a Google Cal and I put my entire exam schedule in there for her. She knows that typically the weekend before, I'll be unavailable. But that I always leave the following weekend up for trips/adventures etc. I let her know that this spring I'm going to be atypically stressed and unavailable because of STEP 1.

It's not easy. And I can't comment on the effects of family planning because as a male, unfortunately, there is no downside to starting a family. You will get judged in some residency interviews if you are currently pregnant. There are sacrifices you'll have to make. But again, this is something to discuss with a partner should you get to that point in your relationship. And it can be done! One of my classmate's wife had a kid this fall. She was also a med student and was pregnant for most of 3rd year. Had the baby in October and still made all her interviews and is now an anesthesiology resident.

tl;dr - You're right to have your reservations about work/school/life, but if you're able to find someone that you can be honest and candid with and supports your journey, you'll be just fine.

 

[lcg16]

d

 

[rabbott1971]

 

[precisiongraphic]

I think the MD gives you far more latitude in crafting your life and career than mid level degrees, but if you could be totally happy as a mid level provider, it sure seems like a faster route through training. Personally I wouldn't have been happy going that way because of what I want to do in this field, but that's just me.

I'll disagree with some of this and say that NPs in Independent Practice states can have more flexibility than MDs. Part-time, opening their own practice etc., after they get experience. And most NPs don't work more than 40-45 hours a week. PAs are more limited IMO.

But Operaman is correct that if you've already been accepted, stopping now and applying to NP or PA school doesn't make a lot of sense.

I've known several MDs who became moms during med school or residency, had "acceptable" (to them and their partners, which are the only ones that count) work-life balance and raised strong, happy kids. You'll probably miss some things, be sleep deprived more than other residents, always wish there are more hours in the day. But that is true for every parent I know who works as a business executive, dentist, teacher/professor, nurse etc. etc. Besides the delegating that is mentioned above, not feeling guilty about your choice is - in my personal experience - key to being happy with your choices.

Here are three week-in-the life posts, two here and here for a female doctor with a family and one here for a lawyer with a doctor husband. These articles IMO show a rich family and career.

 

[njtrimed]

I'm about to start medical school in my mid-late 20's. I will be going in single, and lately I have been having cold feet thinking about how difficult it is going to be to balance this path with finding time to date, find a partner and have a family. For other non-trads who have been down this path, do you have regrets? Do you ever wish you had become a mid-level provider instead of going all the way? As a woman can you find time for a family (as in, having kids for the first time) as a non-trad?

I decided not to apply to med school in my late twenties for exactly the reasons you outlined. I decided that having a family was more important to me than pursuing this dream, and canceled my MCAT and didn't look back. A few years later, I was happily married and on maternity leave with my newborn, and realized just how much I dreaded returning to a job that didn't satisfy me. All I did was mentioned this to my husband, and he said, "well, why not apply to medical school now?" So I did, and it worked out well for me! I'm expecting my second child in a few weeks, just as M2 starts. It's actually easier to juggle med school with family life than it was when I was working, but I know that will change during M3 and residency. But it's manageable, and I consider myself extremely lucky to be doing exactly what I want to do. But there are so many variables, and med school/residency can place an enormous strain on some relationships, especially if it requires moving around.

It's important to think about what you really want, but it's also important to realize that you are still quite young. If your concern is whether you'd be able to have kids earlier in your training, you absolutely can- it's very doable. As for meeting someone who will support you in your career, I'd say that is important regardless of what profession you choose. If you're serious about medicine, you're probably not someone who will feel truly satisfied with a job that doesn't challenge you. Keep that in mind too.

 

[GreenDuck12]

It's good that you're thinking about these things now, because despite what we may all wish were true, it is not the case that you can have absolutely everything in life. Medical training in particular is NOT family friendly, and it is unlikely to become family friendly while you are still in training (although there are some moves in that direction.) So you need to understand from the get go that if you are going to prioritize having a family (and spending as much time as possible with them), then you will need to carve that time away from your career. Medicine behaves like a gas that way: the time you spend at work expands to fill the entire container it finds itself in unless you take concrete steps to limit it. And that is often hard to do while you're in med school and especially residency. That being said, most people who are motivated to balance a family with a medical career do manage to find a compromise that works for them. It all depends on what you want out of life and how badly you want it.

I suggest that you start by doing two things. First, search in these forums for some of the previous posts by nontrad wives and mothers, and read about how they balanced their lives with their careers. You will see that there is not just one way to arrange things to successfully do both. Second, spend some time introspecting about what it means to YOU to be a "good" wife and mother. And be honest with yourself about the kind of person you are. Some people are just more organized, not to mention much better delegators, than others. If you're a good delegator, then you'll probably manage to balance a family with a career fairly well. If you're not, and odds are good that you wouldn't be asking this question if you were, then it's a skill you should give some serious thought to developing. Micromanagers and perfectionists definitely struggle more with balancing it all. I say this as a micromanager/perfectionist personality type who went in already knowing that I did NOT want to have a family of my own.

Hope this helps, and best of luck to you.

Thank you for posting this

 

[Mjeffcoa]

As for meeting someone who will support you in your career, I'd say that is important regardless of what profession you choose. If you're serious about medicine, you're probably not someone who will feel truly satisfied with a job that doesn't challenge you. Keep that in mind too.

Any updates? I’m in a similar situation now. Thanks in advance! You’re truly encouraging!

 

[njtrimed]

Any updates? I’m in a similar situation now. Thanks in advance! You’re truly encouraging!

I just finished my second year courses and just about to start studying for Step 1. I'd be happy to answer any questions you have!

 

[Mjeffcoa]

I just finished my second year courses and just about to start studying for Step 1. I'd be happy to answer any questions you have!

I’m a current master’s student in a speech-language pathology program. I LOVE my field, but I see a lot of potential for if I become an ENT-SLP specialized doctor. (We treat the same populations, but ENTs treat surgically and pharmacologically, while SLPs treat via rehabilitation services across the lifespan.)

I’m trying to find pros and cons for doing this, though. I’m already 26 and graduating next July (2019). My husband fully supports me but has his concerns about that much more school and loans—as do I.

I dream of the ability to spearhead both areas, but would that be needed? Or is this an obselete pursuit to become such a niche specialist?

Also, I’d love to have kids. Thus, I may need a couple of years in between going back to a program. Would I need to take all the exact pre-reqs for medical school, as I will already be an M.S. with Bio I, Stats, and all neuro and A & P courses completed in my current program — on track for a 3.71 GPA (any anatomies were for speech and hearing Sciences specifically).

Thoughts and advice appreciated in advance! 🙂

 

[Gaborik10]

I’m a current master’s student in a speech-language pathology program. I LOVE my field, but I see a lot of potential for if I become an ENT-SLP specialized doctor. (We treat the same populations, but ENTs treat surgically and pharmacologically, while SLPs treat via rehabilitation services across the lifespan.)

I’m trying to find pros and cons for doing this, though. I’m already 26 and graduating next July (2019). My husband fully supports me but has his concerns about that much more school and loans—as do I.

I dream of the ability to spearhead both areas, but would that be needed? Or is this an obselete pursuit to become such a niche specialist?

Also, I’d love to have kids. Thus, I may need a couple of years in between going back to a program. Would I need to take all the exact pre-reqs for medical school, as I will already be an M.S. with Bio I, Stats, and all neuro and A & P courses completed in my current program — on track for a 3.71 GPA (any anatomies were for speech and hearing Sciences specifically).

Thoughts and advice appreciated in advance! 🙂

I would imagine you will need all the pre-reqs for medical school. There might be some overlap. You'll need Organic Chemistry, Physics, Biochem, etc... for sure, if you don't already have them. Plus an MCAT, volunteering, research, etc... so it might realistically take a couple of years of work just to prepare your application for medical school. Then tack on 4 years of medical school and another 5 for residency. And you might find you need to add more years for research in order to make the dream come true. Your age should not be an issue as I was 27 when I entered medical school and I have friends who are women who started med school in their 30's. However, since the road to becoming board certified in ENT from where you are now would be quite long you should consider what your personal goals for having a family are (and life in general) and whether that will fit with medical school/residency. Also consider the lifestyle you will have while training in a surgical sub-specialty putting in 100-120 hour weeks. Will you and your family be okay with that? Maybe, maybe not. It's doable but you need to consider what fits with you and your husbands life.

Your goal of incorporating SLP into an ENT practice doesn't sound totally unreasonable. I would imagine there is some synergy between the fields but there is also a lot more to ENT that has nothing to do with SLP that you will have to learn and spend an immense amount of time on as well (at least during training), so if the non SLP portions of ENT aren't of interest to you that's something to consider. Also you should consider how you will maintain your SLP knowledge & skills during this long journey to become an ENT specialist because I could it be quite difficult to do if you aren't using them while you are focusing 100% on medical school and then a surgical sub-specialty. By the time you are finished training will you even remember how to be an SLP? You might find that by the time you are finished you really don't use it at all. How do you think you would feel about that?

All that being said, I would be quite weary of attending medical school if the only thing you want to do is ENT. It's a surgical sub-specialty focusing on one extremely specific part of the body and thinking you will be interested in that now is fine but once you are in medical school and get great exposure to the field you might find it's not for you. You might find surgery isn't for you at all. Even if you do like it, ENT is one of the most competitive specialties to get into and just because you want to do it doesn't mean it will realistically happen. So ask yourself, If you attend medical school and you aren't going to have a shot of ENT (because of board scores, 3rd year scores, lack of research, whatever it is there's probably a million other reasons why it might be hard to match into), or you realize surgery isn't for you and need to choose a different specialty, would you still want to be a physician? Would you deeply regret the time, money, and stress that you devoted towards pursuing it? That is a critical question for you. It's great to have goals and I think it's fine if you already know what you want to do one day (plenty of people do) but just understand life happens and for many, they go into medical school thinking one thing and leave doing another. ENT would be possible but far from a guarantee (in fact depending on what medical school you get into it may even be a long shot) and you need to consider whether you'd be happy being another kind of physician.

So you would have a lot to consider here. I wouldn't rush this choice. Shadow ENT's. Ask them what they think. Talk honestly with your husband and with yourself. Going down this path would be very expensive in regards to your time, money, and enjoyment of life (at least in the short term), so you should really know for sure that this is what you want for your life. I don't see why it wouldn't be possible but you need to consider whether this long winding risky road is one you want to go down. Good luck.

 

[Promethean]

I am 40. My only regret is that I didn't do it 15 years sooner. Though, not really. I wouldn't be the person that I am, and that would be a darn shame.

I'm not having my own kids. I'm totally devoted to my profession, my specialty, above just about anything else in my life. My husband and my girlfriend (complicated life over here) would win out over medicine, but only just. I won't be producing any new people to distract myself from my mission.

There are a lot of sacrifices in medicine. You don't have to make as many as I have chosen to do, but don't kid yourself that this path is easy and that you can have a "normal" kind of life, certainly during training. Maybe once you are an attending, you can have a lot more control over your schedule, whatever... but med school and residency is a time of giving up a lot of control over your own life, more than you can likely imagine from where you sit right now.

And so, I get that is why you are asking if we regret it. The problem is that we are a terrible sample. The people who stuck with it are the people who stuck with it. The people who regretted it too much bailed and aren't here to speak.

 

[njtrimed]

I’m a current master’s student in a speech-language pathology program. I LOVE my field, but I see a lot of potential for if I become an ENT-SLP specialized doctor. (We treat the same populations, but ENTs treat surgically and pharmacologically, while SLPs treat via rehabilitation services across the lifespan.)

I’m trying to find pros and cons for doing this, though. I’m already 26 and graduating next July (2019). My husband fully supports me but has his concerns about that much more school and loans—as do I.

I dream of the ability to spearhead both areas, but would that be needed? Or is this an obselete pursuit to become such a niche specialist?

Also, I’d love to have kids. Thus, I may need a couple of years in between going back to a program. Would I need to take all the exact pre-reqs for medical school, as I will already be an M.S. with Bio I, Stats, and all neuro and A & P courses completed in my current program — on track for a 3.71 GPA (any anatomies were for speech and hearing Sciences specifically).

Thoughts and advice appreciated in advance! 🙂

I think the above two posts have covered most of what I would say. To get into med school, you need a certain number of undergraduate credits in bio, chem, organic chem, and physics. I know it has changed quite a bit in the past few years to emphasize things like psychology, sociology, and biochem, so you should check with the pre-med forum here. I think @gonnif is always up to speed on the most recent requirements.

I would agree that unless you are sure you want to be a physician even if you can't be an ENT, you should not consider medical school. I went to medical school with no idea of what I wanted to do, and would have been fine with family medicine or whatever ended up being my path, but having worked in the OR, I really loved the idea of ENT. Upon finding out that ENT was ultra competitive and required research and AOA (top 15% of your class, generally) and 90th+ percentile board scores, I wrote it off. It's still possible for me, but I'm keeping an open mind and exploring everything, since my family does come first. I have met a female neurosurgeon with five kids who seems to balance work and family, but I am not counting on being that person. I want to be a great mom and wife, as well as a great physician in whatever specialty suits me best. But you have to be very honest with yourself about your career goals. Could you envision being an outpatient general practitioner, or as a hospitalist, or OB/GYN or pediatrician? If you're intent on one specialty, it's not even necessarily a long shot, but may require additional time doing research and/or trying to match outside of your desired geographic location.

 

[Mjeffcoa]

So ask yourself, If you attend medical school and you aren't going to have a shot of ENT (because of board scores, 3rd year scores, lack of research, whatever it is there's probably a million other reasons why it might be hard to match into), or you realize surgery isn't for you and need to choose a different specialty, would you still want to be a physician?

Thank you SO much for this advice! I had considered some but not all of these factors. Upkeep for my SLP certs is easily possible, but dealing with not being an ENT specifically is something I still need to ponder more. Again, thank you for taking the time to write this out for me.

 

[Mjeffcoa]

My only regret is that I didn't do it 15 years sooner. Though, not really. I wouldn't be the person that I am, and that would be a darn shame.

I appreciate your comment and will remember that as I keep searching for my own path. 🙂 It does sound complicated, but I am so glad it worked out for you. Great things take great sacrifices, and I can only imagine many must be made to change lives the way only a doctor can.

 

[Mjeffcoa]

l would agree that unless you are sure you want to be a physician even if you can't be an ENT, you should not consider medical school.

You have been so helpful to start back this post for me! Thanks! I’m inspired to hear of others like you who balance family and all that comes with med school — just as I would hope to do if I go this direction.

I also appreciate your advice on knowing I may end up elsewhere. I’m a “B student who works hard to make all A’s,” as they say. Realizing that only some of the top students match in ENT residencies puts the reality more into perspective for me. I will mull that one over while continuing to consider this path, too.

Becoming a PA was suggested to me by a cardiovascular surgeon I am going to observe this summer as a potential alternative. I am open to that as well but don’t know if furthering the fields would look the same as a PA-SLP vs. ENT-SLP...

 

[njtrimed]

You have been so helpful to start back this post for me! Thanks! I’m inspired to hear of others like you who balance family and all that comes with med school — just as I would hope to do if I go this direction.

I also appreciate your advice on knowing I may end up elsewhere. I’m a “B student who works hard to make all A’s,” as they say. Realizing that only some of the top students match in ENT residencies puts the reality more into perspective for me. I will mull that one over while continuing to consider this path, too.

Becoming a PA was suggested to me by a cardiovascular surgeon I am going to observe this summer as a potential alternative. I am open to that as well but don’t know if furthering the fields would look the same as a PA-SLP vs. ENT-SLP...

I think that any physician recommending the PA route is completely unaware of the fact that today, PAs have to complete a 2-3 year Master's degree that is specific for PA, and does not translate to anything else. That is not to denigrate the PA's role, but a PA who decides to go to medical school needs to go back and complete the same prereqs and jump through the same hoops as any other MD/DO candidate. And you can do well in medical school just by working harder than everyone else, but it's a matter of reflecting on how willing you are to possibly work twice as hard as a class of students who are already working 50-60 hours a week to do well. Your classmates are probably going to be as smart and dedicated as you are, so setting yourself apart is that much harder even if you don't have kids or a spouse/SO or any kind of life outside of medicine.

That said, life experience matters and if you're truly in love with a certain field, you can always make connections in your school's ENT department and if necessary, take extra time off for research to prove how dedicated you are to that field. Don't sell yourself short, and just weigh the cost vs benefits before you decide what is right for you.

 

[Mjeffcoa]

Thank you for this very helpful information! I have completed some of these courses, but I definitely have a long road ahead to complete more while in rotations for SLP certs. A huge decision for sure!