Rejecting a seat to an MSTP and re-applying

[imaginespock]

Hi everyone,

I am looking for insight on how rejecting a seat to an MSTP or MD/PhD program is actually perceived by admissions committees if I re-applied for the 2020-2021 cycle. My current understanding is that rejecting a seat is perceived very poorly, to the point that interviews will not be offered to the applicant when they do re-apply. I am turning to SDN because I am seeking a perspective that is legitimate and not based on hear-say, which is where a lot of my understanding has stemmed from. My pre-health advisor has no prior experience with navigating this situation, so I genuinely have no other source to turn to other than SDN to base this decision off of. Consequently, I ask very kindly that responses to this thread be based on some solid grounds (for instance prior experience navigating this dilemma or people who have been a part of admissions committees), so I can make an informed decision.

I really appreciate it and I hope that this application cycle is going well for everyone!

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[grizzly1093]

Here’s a link to a previous discussion on rejecting offers (though this person asked about rejecting an MD offer, it might be worth a read):

MD/PhD Competitive?

Hi all, I applied MD last year and was accepted to one school, but I turned them down because of personal reasons and to pursue opportunities in my lab at school. My PI at home is extremely accomplished and well-known in the field, but our work is not very clinical (fMRI scans of NASA...

forums.studentdoctor.net

I’ve copied my response to that thread here:
“For what it's worth, I turned down an MD offer AND an MD/PhD offer two years ago, and I just finished a very successful MD/PhD reapplication cycle. I had greater success in places where the MSTP committee picks whoever they want without the MD committee filtering the applicants--I think MSTP adcoms understand that, while MDs of equal caliber can come from any program, that is not the case for MD/PhD once you consider concentrations in certain fields of research. So applicants may have valid reasons for chasing after particular schools.

I will admit, though, that I'm an exception, and I had compelling reasons for turning down the earlier offers. It also helps if your reapplication is significantly different/better than your first, with clear evidence of continued effort and commitment.

*Edited to reemphasize: turning down offers is almost always a bad idea--I had reasons, but I'm positive it still affected my reapp cycle.”

I’ll add, too, that the programs that interviewed me the first time I applied didn’t interview me again. I’m happy to discuss further if you PM me.

 

[SoberPony]

I think the circumstance is very relevant. If you’re withdrawing because of a sign isn’t life change or event, and you’re good at communicating this in your next application, then it could be possible.

I also know of someone with an A this cycle who withdrew after acceptance to an MD only but made significant improvements during two additional gap years.

 

[narla_hotep]

Is there any way you could give us more info about why you want to turn down the offer? Weird life circumstance (in which case you could just defer) or that you reconsidered and no longer want to go to that specific school?

 

[CaliforniaAsian]

Hi everyone,

I am looking for insight on how rejecting a seat to an MSTP or MD/PhD program is actually perceived by admissions committees if I re-applied for the 2020-2021 cycle. My current understanding is that rejecting a seat is perceived very poorly, to the point that interviews will not be offered to the applicant when they do re-apply. I am turning to SDN because I am seeking a perspective that is legitimate and not based on hear-say, which is where a lot of my understanding has stemmed from. My pre-health advisor has no prior experience with navigating this situation, so I genuinely have no other source to turn to other than SDN to base this decision off of. Consequently, I ask very kindly that responses to this thread be based on some solid grounds (for instance prior experience navigating this dilemma or people who have been a part of admissions committees), so I can make an informed decision.

I really appreciate it and I hope that this application cycle is going well for everyone!

May I ask if there something about U Michigan's MSTP that really puts you off?

 

[imaginespock]

Is there any way you could give us more info about why you want to turn down the offer? Weird life circumstance (in which case you could just defer) or that you reconsidered and no longer want to go to that specific school?

Of course. I have multiple reasons as to why I am thinking about turning down the offer. First, I am coordinating with my partner on where we are trying to complete grad school (he is going for his PhD) and he was unfortunately not offered an interview at the school I got an offer from. We are discussing potentially doing long distance while he gets his PhD and having him do a post-doc at my school, but that would be rather challenging. Second, I got my offer from U of M, and a really liked the school, but I do not know if I want to live in Ann Arbor for eight years. I really liked the program itself, but I felt as though the town itself was not the ideal fit. As I am starting MD/PhD at 25, I am also factoring in where I want to start a family as I will not finish until I am in my 30s. As an aside, I think this process is difficult for me because there is this notion that if you are accepted somewhere, then you are expected to go to that school. For me, however, I went into this process with the mentality that in addition to the school interviewing me, I am also gauging schools that I want to spend almost a decade at and see if its the right fit. I am very happy to have been accepted to a program, but I also am struggling feeling like I HAVE to go to U of M because it is my only acceptance and that the only alternative is giving up my aspirations of becoming a physician scientist because of this expectation that you have to accept, even if it isn't the right match.

Sorry for the very long winded-answer, but I am also considering applying to MD programs as well next cycle, if I re-apply. MD/PhD is something I have been wanting to do for about six years now, but now that I am accepted, I am really trying to understand if this track is the best fit for my mental health and whether I will actually get the fulfillment in my career that I think a physician-scientist path will provide for me with. Some may interpret this as that I did not think deeply about the career path before, but I genuinely thought for so long that this is what I wanted. Now that I am accepted, however, I think that I am finally being granted the time to perceive this path from a more objective view and really consider if this path is fundamentally what I want.

My answer may be unsatisfactory for some, but long answer short, there are a lot of thoughts happening in my head and I am the type of person that likes to be very certain about their decision. However, I feel that I can only be certain by considering all of my options and confirming that taking this acceptance is the best decision for myself. I hope I am conveying my thoughts clearly, and I appreciate everyone's responses to the thread so far

 

[imaginespock]

May I ask if there something about U Michigan's MSTP that really puts you off?

Not at all, I actually really liked the school. I just posted a long answer above to @narla_hotep about why I am considering turning down a seat. Michigan is a great school, but this is a big decision for me and I just want to be sure that I am making the right decision for myself and for what I want in life.

 

[tr]

Where did your partner get in? Did you tell the school that you needed to be in the same location? Honestly PhD programs are more forgiving and easier to get into than MD/PhD. If one of you should turn down acceptances and reapply it should be him, unless you have decided against med school yourself. Turning down this acceptance is really going to hurt you in a reapplication cycle, and if you only got one acceptance this time I would be quite concerned about the possibility of getting none the next time around.

 

[aaugh]

If one of you should turn down acceptances and reapply it should be him, unless you have decided against med school yourself.

I agree with this sentiment. Re-applying to a PhD program vs. an MD/PhD is very different, and he will have the easier time. He can consider moving with you and finding an RT position within the university to potentially have a "way in" to the PhD program, assuming he does well as an RT.

As a student who was also accepted to a single program in a location that I was not necessarily excited about, I can tell you after so much time it doesn't matter and this is still only a small blip of your life. Yes, it makes things harder - e.g. I'm on the opposite coast from family - but you make do and after so many years I try to focus on the positive (despite being someone who is very much a pessimist and ridden with anxiety). Plan for ways to keep your mental health in check to avoid letting your "not ideal" location overwhelm you.

That being said, how much individuals take your reasoning into account to admit you will vary. Some might view it as immature and lacking gratitude (especially when your offer was to a fantastic program), others might empathize more with your situation and understand the need to be together. Someone could also say you should be admitted solely based on qualifications, someone else could take this as a "maturity" test. It completely depends.

FYI I am a student member on our admissions committee.

 

[imaginespock]

Where did your partner get in? Did you tell the school that you needed to be in the same location? Honestly PhD programs are more forgiving and easier to get into than MD/PhD. If one of you should turn down acceptances and reapply it should be him, unless you have decided against med school yourself. Turning down this acceptance is really going to hurt you in a reapplication cycle, and if you only got one acceptance this time I would be quite concerned about the possibility of getting none the next time around.

He currently has acceptances at NYU and Yale, and has three more interviews (U of Chicago, Stanford, and Johns Hopkins). So, when I applied, the people I consulted said that I had a decent chance at getting interviews at some T10 schools. That unfortunately did not prove to be true, but conversations with mentors led to my list of schools being about 75% T10 schools, and I only applied to 15 schools. If I were to reapply, I would definitely set my bar lower. My the time of my re-application, I would have >6,000 research hours, a second author publication, I am an Amgen scholar, MCAT 517, BCPM GPA 3.91, have done research in three countries. My MCAT score could be higher, but I am trying to understand if my publications and amount of research hours would outweigh rejecting a seat. Thank you for your response!

 

[tr]

He currently has acceptances at NYU and Yale, and has three more interviews (U of Chicago, Stanford, and Johns Hopkins). So, when I applied, the people I consulted said that I had a decent chance at getting interviews at some T10 schools. That unfortunately did not prove to be true, but conversations with mentors led to my list of schools being about 75% T10 schools, and I only applied to 15 schools. If I were to reapply, I would definitely set my bar lower. My the time of my re-application, I would have >6,000 research hours, a second author publication, I am an Amgen scholar, MCAT 517, BCPM GPA 3.91, have done research in three countries. My MCAT score could be higher, but I am trying to understand if my publications and amount of research hours would outweigh rejecting a seat. Thank you for your response!

But when you reapply will you be restricted to schools in the same geographic area as your partner? That could be killer on its own. It really seems like you won't be in a better position next cycle. You might have racked up a couple more CV points and lowered your bar for schools but you'll be geographically restricted and carrying a red flag from turning down the UMich acceptance. There's no quantitative way to weigh those things against each other but overall I'd say reapplication sounds like a very shaky bet.

 

[peony54]

I turned down all my MSTP acceptances in the 2018-2019 cycle, including T20 programs, re-applied this cycle and have an acceptance. I applied to 16 programs my first cycle, and was restricted by 2 things: wanting to pursue a "non-traditional" PhD and having an older mcat score that was no longer valid for all schools. My primary reason for turning down my acceptances my first cycle was research fit as I work in a somewhat niche area even inside my already "non-traditional" PhD field. I had concurrently applied to PhD programs, so I committed to a PhD program instead (one of the few institutions that is a good research fit for me), retook my MCAT in summer 2019, and I applied again this cycle to the MSTP at the school I am doing my PhD at, where I currently hold an acceptance. I was unable to apply to this school in the 2018-2019 cycle because they would not accept my MCAT test date (thus was not formally considered a re-applicant).

Just my two cents having gone through the process: Though it did work out for me ultimately, I definitely I wouldn't recommend anyone put themselves through re-application. I would think seriously about whether you could make peace with the fact that you may never get into either MD/PhD or MD programs again in the future. In my case, I knew that while MD/PhD training is what I truly wanted, I could feel fulfilled with just a PhD and associated careers in my field of study, if it was the case that no matter how hard I tried, I never got into an MSTP or MD program in the future.

 

[EvoMed]

I turned down all my MSTP acceptances in the 2018-2019 cycle, including T20 programs, re-applied this cycle and have an acceptance. I applied to 16 programs my first cycle, and was restricted by 2 things: wanting to pursue a "non-traditional" PhD and having an older mcat score that was no longer valid for all schools. My primary reason for turning down my acceptances my first cycle was research fit as I work in a somewhat niche area even inside my already "non-traditional" PhD field. I had concurrently applied to PhD programs, so I committed to a PhD program instead (one of the few institutions that is a good research fit for me), retook my MCAT in summer 2019, and I applied again this cycle to the MSTP at the school I am doing my PhD at, where I currently hold an acceptance. I was unable to apply to this school in the 2018-2019 cycle because they would not accept my MCAT test date (thus was not formally considered a re-applicant).

Just my two cents having gone through the process: Though it did work out for me ultimately, I definitely I wouldn't recommend anyone put themselves through re-application. I would think seriously about whether you could make peace with the fact that you may never get into either MD/PhD or MD programs again in the future. In my case, I knew that while MD/PhD training is what I truly wanted, I could feel fulfilled with just a PhD and associated careers in my field of study, if it was the case that no matter how hard I tried, I never got into an MSTP or MD program in the future.

This is an interesting story. The medical career path is so scripted that its easy to lose sight of our control of our own individual path. Kudos to you for being clear about your goals and being proactive towards reaching them.

Just curious; how is your training mapped out? 1 year PhD, 2 years med, finish PhD, finish med?