Religion in Personal Statements

[nicholonious]

I was forward this email by a pre-med advisor from my undergraduate college. This is an interesting topic, especially regarding today's views and issues with religion, politics, and medicine. In gist, this an advisor's response on the issue of religion in personal statements. It is an interesting read, which definitely gave me an outside perspective:

Some of you have had questions about whether you should mention your religious beliefs in your personal statement. Recently, a pre-med advisor expressed concerns about a personal statement which a primarily religion-based content. "The student is not expressing any hesitations or concerns about treatment options or populations, but instead discusses how Christ is his mentor and
guide for how he wants to treat and heal all people. He is planning on applying to public and private medical schools."

This advisor's questions for medical schools were: (1) Would a statement with a heavy religious tone discourage you from sending him a secondary or considering him for an interview? (2) With a strong religious personal statement would there be topics or issues the student should address upfront to minimize any concerns you may have? Other advisors were asked to comment on their own experiences with similar personal statements. The following is a compilation of responses to these questions

When I review files and read "extreme" statements about any topic (religion, political views, health care views) that raises a red flag for me. I like to see that the student has a well-rounded background and is able to see both sides of an issue. It is also important that they can get along with their fellow classmates and future professional colleagues by sharing their views in
a mature and collaborative manner. Their patients in the end will benefit.

To this, an advisor responded: "The medical schools will be concerned that the student will proselytize his patients, even if the student professes no such intention. If experience teaches us anything, it is that admissions committees don't like extremes of any kind. The student can tone down the fervent _expression of his beliefs in his essay without compromising his beliefs ("Actions speak louder than words," a useful cliché here.) Tell him that he will be practicing in a world where his patients and colleagues will represent a variety of backgrounds and persuasions, and that the medical schools will not want to worry that he will be favoring one group or belief over another in his professional practice.

Were it my advisee, I'd suggest that it's possible that the admissions committees of the schools to which he applies may well have members who are just as passionately Catholic, Jewish or even Muslim as he is (my guess here) Born Again. Given this, it's quite possible that he is risking a negative reaction by one or more of the people who hold his fate in their hands. I'd also remind him/her of Christ's injunction to pray quietly in one's own closet.

Strong religious beliefs are usually a source of strength and that is a good thing, but I'd advise the student to keep the notion of helping others in his/her letter and drop the religious imagery until s/he's in medical school.

As a former admissions director and current premedical advisor, I have a unique perspective. While such pronouncements are rooted in truth, it is the appropriateness of the forum that will give cause for concern.

Doctors' religious views should remain outside the examination room, and such an essay might bring into question the person's awareness of how such opinions could be seen as a potential problem. While I never tell a student YES or NO on any essay topic or subject matter, I do pose questions that such an essay may provoke, purposely taking the opposite stance, such as euthanasia, abortion, etc. At the end I ask if they feel they were well served by being on the defensive for their interview. They then move forward in the direction they believe to be most appropriate for them.

Like with other personal statements that mention very important mentors (father, mother, personal physician, teacher, etc.), I like to see how the applicant's motivation evolved from wanted to 'please' or emulate the mentor to their own personal reasons for the profession. I think it is fine to start out with discussing how the inspiration or passion was sparked or who has helped sparked the inspiration, motivation or passion. However, the applicant needs to move on and discuss how they came to embody those things they admired through the activities they participated in.

We are seeing more applicants discussing their religious beliefs in their applications. Certainly your student would not be prevented from getting a secondary or being invited for an interview based solely on what he has written in his personal statement (assuming that he does not indicate that his religious beliefs will make him selective about who he treats). But he can expect to be (gently) questioned about ways in which his religious beliefs might be in conflict with some aspects of medicine, or that might prevent him from remaining objective and non-judgmental with patients who do not share his beliefs or even value system. Usually a medical student's strong religious beliefs can enhance their ability to care for patients, but we do come across applicants who view medicine as an opportunity to proselytize and convert patients to their religion, which would be completely inappropriate in a doctor-patient relationship. We also find applicants whose religious beliefs result in very rigid social views that would make it difficult for them to care for some sectors of our population. Physicians do not have the option to care for some parts of the population and not others. The Hippocratic oath requires them to care for all who come to their door.

Applicants who write about their religious beliefs need to understand that by doing so, it allow interviewers to address the issue (otherwise an applicant's religion would not be brought up in an interview).

Many of my students profess to have a divine calling into medicine. I emphasize that their calling is personal and subjective, so they should not expect an admissions committee to "take their word for it" as a reason why they should be accepted to medical school. They should instead expect to be evaluated on academic success, clinical experience, interpersonal skills and knowledge / attitudes as discerned through interview. In a pamphlet published by the Christian Medical Society, Robert Herrmann wrote, "If God called you into medicine, why didn't He give you the ability to understand chemistry?"

A student who is motivated by Christ's command to "to unto the least of these" has an appropriate service ethic for medicine.

Some food for thought...

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[Psycho Doctor]

That's an excellent post. I agree that any strong statement about religion or any other controversial issue is subject to the interpretation and perspective of the reader. I see nothing wrong with mentioning your religion, especially if it is a guiding force in one's life. However it needs to be discussed in as matter that would not show bias towards the treatment of one's patients.

 

[HarveyCushing]

Just curious how open minded most admission committee members will be to a statement or two about the applicants religion. I am in the same boat as I can not decide what I should include in my ps. One side says that I should not hold back something that is apart of me. Whereas the other side things that I might not be given the same benefits as other applicants, especially if it is at a secular university (with no religious affliation). I dont want to push any admission committee's away from me. Since you can't really tailor your ps to each school you apply, what is the best choice?

 

[LizzyM]

You can tailor your essays in the secondaries but the AMCAS PS needs to be "generic". It shouldn't read like a sermon. Some adcom members have been proselytized by fellow physicians and PSs that sound like they were written by a preacher are a real turn off.

 

[LadyBulldog]

very interesting....

 

[nicholonious]

That's an excellent post. I agree that any strong statement about religion or any other controversial issue is subject to the interpretation and perspective of the reader. I see nothing wrong with mentioning your religion, especially if it is a guiding force in one's life. However it needs to be discussed in as matter that would not show bias towards the treatment of one's patients.

Ryan, good feedback. Also same goes for the rest of you.

I know a lot of Catholic pre-meds out there that are heavily influenced by their religion. Truly it is a dogmatic way of life. They act carefully on treading such ground when writing their PS. It shouldn't be too much of a problem addressing, just as long as its not imposing views on the ad. committee.

 

[notdeadyet]

This is Miss Manners 101: two things to avoid talking about in polite company are your religious beliefs and your sex life.

Both for the same reason: though it's probably very important to you, no one else wants to hear about it.

Personally, I would not want to hear about what a great relationship you have with God when reading your application essay. If God plays such a strong role in your life, you can talk about your beliefs as to how they will impact your ability to be a doctor without bringing God into it directly (I believe it is vital that we help one another, I believe we all need to strive for peace, etc.).

 

[deuist]

That's an excellent post. I agree that any strong statement about religion or any other controversial issue is subject to the interpretation and perspective of the reader. I see nothing wrong with mentioning your religion, especially if it is a guiding force in one's life. However it needs to be discussed in as matter that would not show bias towards the treatment of one's patients.

You don't even need to mention religion in your personal statement to raise a few eyebrows. I mentioned in my activities section that I belong to my campus' Baptist Student Union. In almost every interview I was asked about my religious beliefs. Specifically, the adcoms wanted to know if I could work with a patient from a different religious background.

 

[entropy]

don't talk about it !

 

[tigress]

You don't even need to mention religion in your personal statement to raise a few eyebrows. I mentioned in my activities section that I belong to my campus' Baptist Student Union. In almost every interview I was asked about my religious beliefs. Specifically, the adcoms wanted to know if I could work with a patient from a different religious background.

Really? I find that interesting. I went to a religious school and half of my undergrad curriculum was religion courses, so I suppose I may be asked these questions as well. Not that I mind, because I'm perfectly ready to answer them. Only I don't think my husband got asked about it, and he went to the same school (and wears a yarmulka; that's hard to hide even if he wanted to)

 

[velo]

In a pamphlet published by the Christian Medical Society, Robert Herrmann wrote, "If God called you into medicine, why didn't He give you the ability to understand chemistry?"

that's fantastic! 👍

 

[LizzyM]

I think that it depends on the prejudices of the interviewer. Some will quiz Catholics on abortion/birth control as it relates to patient care, others are nervous around "fundamentalists" who they think are going to be asking "have you been saved" when they take a history, some Orthodox Jews are going get quized about taking call on the Sabbath.

If an adcom is going to reject you because you took an active role in your faith community then you don't want to go to that school (it is no doubt riddled with prejudice).

On the other hand, a rare applicant will sound like s/he's applying for the seminary rather than medical school and the adcom will usually take a dim view of that. (One applicant actually asked the dean of admissions, "Do you believe in Christ Jesus? If you don't, you can't understand who I am.")

 

[nicholonious]

that's fantastic! 👍

Hey man, do you velodromes?

Just wondering, I just got into track riding, its getting addicting!

 

[deuist]

Really? I find that interesting. I went to a religious school and half of my undergrad curriculum was religion courses, so I suppose I may be asked these questions as well. Not that I mind, because I'm perfectly ready to answer them. Only I don't think my husband got asked about it, and he went to the same school (and wears a yarmulka; that's hard to hide even if he wanted to)

Yes, but the Southern Baptists are known for their intolerance of other religions. The Orthodox Jews are not.

 

[t33sg1rl]

My PS didn't include any specific religious material. In a list of things that were important to me, I think I did include faith, but I certainly never said what kind. However-on my activities, I included church. I spend a lot of time volunteering either in the church or through church-sponsored activites, and I've been on committees. Do you guys think I should say something specific about church/faith? Because they're going to see how much time I put into it, and without something in my PS perhaps they will think religious nuts instead of spiritual fruit.

 

[almondjoyMD]

I don't think it should be in your ps, but especially if you interview at a liberal school you should bring it up. I interviewed at UWash and no one mentioned church/faith and I did not even think to bring it up. I was ready for their questions, but when no one asked, I assumed that there was no problem. However, later when I talked to someone who used to be on the adcom, she related religion to an elephant in the room. No one says anything but everyone knows it is there. At UWash they are very concerned with tolerance for all beliefs. Apparently they were concerned about whether I would be tolerant since my experiences showed a heavy religious influence. Since it was not brought up at my interview they could not discern which way I leaned between personal faith and imposing on others. I doubt that this was the sole reason for my rejection but it may easily have been a factor that made them hesitant in accepting me.

note: for those who are curious, my grades and MCAT are competitive and I am a Washington resident, so those are not a problem

 

[gujuDoc]

My roommate mentioned involvement with her church, but not in the context that you all are talking about. For her, it was just showing that she had leadership by serving as their main core music director and in terms of how it fit into her musical extracurricular activities. Also, she put it in there, just to show some leadership she had through summer bible study camp. But nowhere near extreme about what she believes vs. other's beliefs.

 

[domukin]

Good post. I agree with what the adcoms had to say. Religion and Medicine should be kept separate- religion/spirituality can be a driving force for the physician, but even then is therefore a stricly personal thing. It also has nothing to do with the execution of the trade.

I would mention volunteering at the church, since you are pointing out an important experience in the service of others.

 

[Fed Meat]

. The Orthodox Jews are not.

Are you serious?

There's that whole West Bank/Gaza Strip thing... The Anti-Defamation League... Not that I hold them as representative of Orthodox Jews. Or most Baptists, for that matter.

Whatever. I think the fear of religion is pretty humerous (read: deluded), especially in this country.

And almondjoy, if that's the reason the adcoms rejected you, they're idiots, bigots, and hypocrites at the same time, no matter how much they'd like to deny it.

 

[tigress]

Are you serious?

There's that whole West Bank/Gaza Strip thing...

Whatever. I think the fear of religion is pretty humerous (read: deluded), especially in this country.

And almondjoy, if that's the reason the adcoms rejected you, they're idiots and hypocrites at the same time.

Well I was actually going to say that it depends on the Orthodox Jews, because certainly some groups (particularly the right-wing segments) are not particularly tolerant. Then again, they aren't really tolerant of anybody other than themselves.

As far as the "West Bank/Gaza Strip thing", that's not an issue of religious tolerance. In any case there are certainly Orthodox Jews (such as myself, for example, and a recent editorial writer for the New York Times) who do not support the occupation of the West Bank or Gaza Strip. I just wanted to point that out.

But in comparison to evangelical Christianity, Judaism is certainly more tolerant (I really don't want to bash on Christians here, it's totally not my intention, and I have nothing against anybody's faith). For example, we don't believe you have to be Jewish to go to "heaven", and we don't prosthelytize (at least modern Jews don't, with a few exceptions).

Most of all, my own level of tolerance (which I'd like to think is pretty high) is not necessarily defined by my religious affiliation. I won't have any trouble answering potential interview questions about the issue, but it does sometimes bother me when people make assumptions. I'm extremely politically and socially liberal, I just belong to a fairly conservative community. The two are not exclusive.

As far as my application, my PS doesn't mention religion at all. My coursework, as I said, is full of religion courses, and a few of my ECs are religious in nature. I personally had no desire to put religion in my PS, but I agree that it's probably not a good idea even if you are tempted. On the ECs it's probably fine, but I appreciate this thread because I'll be sure to be ready for questions about it in interviews.

 

[Fed Meat]

Yeah, you can see that I edited my post above a little bit, obviously while you were writing your response.

Just as an aside, I personally don't consider proseletyzation inherently intolerant. I lived in Utah for a while, and frankly, I enjoyed my conversations with Mormons. I attended services with them, talked a bit. I held to my own faith in the end, but I'd have no problems listening to them, especially if I didn't feel spiritually grounded.

Now if you have people threatening you or saying you'll burn, yeah, okay, probably not the best way to reach people or make them feel comfortable.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

You don't even need to mention religion in your personal statement to raise a few eyebrows. I mentioned in my activities section that I belong to my campus' Baptist Student Union. In almost every interview I was asked about my religious beliefs. Specifically, the adcoms wanted to know if I could work with a patient from a different religious background.

yea, but that's ok. Personally, I will not apologize for my religious beliefs; they are important to me, but they would not stand in the way of me giving my patients equal treatment. I think that's all they wanted to make sure of and that's perfectly appropriate.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

This is Miss Manners 101: two things to avoid talking about in polite company are your religious beliefs and your sex life.

Both for the same reason: though it's probably very important to you, no one else wants to hear about it.

Personally, I would not want to hear about what a great relationship you have with God when reading your application essay. If God plays such a strong role in your life, you can talk about your beliefs as to how they will impact your ability to be a doctor without bringing God into it directly (I believe it is vital that we help one another, I believe we all need to strive for peace, etc.).

and i always thought it was religion and politics. as far as sex, well er that's just common sense.

and if you don't believ ein God or are offended by such be;liefs, of course you wouldn't want to hear about it, just a dsone who doesn't believe in something else wouldn't want to hear about that. But let's give adcoms more credit than that and assume they are not biased or at least would not let their personal opinions influence their judgement.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

If an adcom is going to reject you because you took an active role in your faith community then you don't want to go to that school (it is no doubt riddled with prejudice).

good point! 👍

 

[tigress]

Now if you have people threatening you or saying you'll burn, yeah, okay, probably not the best way to reach people or make them feel comfortable.

Okay I see where you changed your post 🙂

I think that proselytizing can be done respectfully but it often isn't. In high school I had a few classmates who approached me over and over, telling me I was going to burn in hell unless I accepted Jesus, and that was pretty annoying. I basically just ignored them and I didn't really take offense, because I think they're wrong and being silly.

As far as whether proselytizing is inherently intolerant, in some ways it is, because somebody is telling you that their belief system is correct and you ought to accept it as such. I don't hold it against Christians that they proselytize, however, because it's such a basic tenent of their religion that they ought to.

 

[notdeadyet]

and i always thought it was religion and politics. as far as sex, well er that's just common sense.

I would think that not bringing up religion would be common sense too, but apparently not.

and if you don't believ ein God or are offended by such be;liefs, of course you wouldn't want to hear about it,

No, you're not understanding this. Even folks who _do_ believe in god may not want to hear about your beliefs. Many non-prostelytizing Christians and whatnot simply do not want to hear about your religious beliefs.

Again, you may have a healthy sex life and I may have a healthy sex life, but I really don't need to hear about yours. Especially in an interview situation.

But let's give adcoms more credit than that and assume they are not biased or at least would not let their personal opinions influence their judgement.

Inteviews are _based_ on subjective judgement. And if an adcom is of the mind that they would rather not hear about your relationship wth god (or your robust sex life, for that matter), that's something to keep in mind.

 

[Ifellinapothole]

My atheism was all over my application.

It guides my every decision and will make me an excellent physician.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

I would think that not bringing up religion would be common sense too, but apparently not.


No, you're not understanding this. Even folks who _do_ believe in god may not want to hear about your beliefs. Many non-prostelytizing Christians and whatnot simply do not want to hear about your religious beliefs.

Again, you may have a healthy sex life and I may have a healthy sex life, but I really don't need to hear about yours. Especially in an interview situation.


Inteviews are _based_ on subjective judgement. And if an adcom is of the mind that they would rather not hear about your relationship wth god (or your robust sex life, for that matter), that's something to keep in mind.

well that can be said about every aspect of an application. if an adcom hates dogs for some reason, they may not want to hear how lots of your ECs are related to dogs...or frogs...or....athletics or the democratic party. it's all a matter of keeping it in the proper perspective and not exploiting it.

 

[almondjoyMD]

And almondjoy, if that's the reason the adcoms rejected you, they're idiots, bigots, and hypocrites at the same time, no matter how much they'd like to deny it.

Maybe I explained myself wrong. I can't seriously believe that a med school would reject me because I am conservative and they are a liberal school. It seems much more likely that they rejected me because they could not figure out whether I was an extremist who is intolerant or just someone who is strong in their faith. I think that it is important for adcoms to avoid doctors who are so extreme in their beliefs, whether conservative or liberal, that they force it on their patients. If they are unsure about an applicant, there are so many other qualified applicants that they can probably be more sure about. I am not saying that I was happy to be rejected, but I do understand that line of thinking. Next time I just need to make sure that they know that I have no intentions of pushing my beliefs onto my patients, and I wanted others to be aware that this is an issue of concern for adcoms.

 

[LizzyM]

Sometimes it is not a matter of pushing beliefs on patients as much as "will this applicant fit in here?"

At a socially liberal school, a social conservative can be a burr under the saddle blanket, the person who raises his hand to point out that the emperor has no clothes. The faculty at such a school hate the type.

Likewise, a social liberal in a conservative atmosphere is going to be a bad fit (why do you think Georgetown puts its cards on the table on inteview day? to scare off the people who think that they get encouragement by the administration to start a Students4Choice chapter on campus).

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Sometimes it is not a matter of pushing beliefs on patients as much as "will this applicant fit in here?"

At a socially liberal school, a social conservative can be a burr under the saddle blanket, the person who raises his hand to point out that the emperor has no clothes. The faculty at such a school hate the type.

Likewise, a social liberal in a conservative atmosphere is going to be a bad fit (why do you think Georgetown puts its cards on the table on inteview day? to scare off the people who think that they get encouragement by the administration to start a Students4Choice chapter on campus).

i tend to agree with you but what happened to the push for diversity? it seems to have its advantages in some areas of cultural difference 😕

 

[LizzyM]

Cultural diversity can exist without rocking the boat.

Religion in this case is, I think, more of a proxy for what we might call political ideology. (consider issues such as abortion/gay rights/right to die/ immigration/universal health care/death penalty/military issues) Certain religious denominations, or factions within particular denominations tend to be in one political camp or the other.

Many people accept "cultural diversity" but aren't comfortable being challenged about their political stance.

 

[tigress]

Cultural diversity can exist without rocking the boat.

Religion in this case is, I think, more of a proxy for what we might call political ideology. (consider issues such as abortion/gay rights/right to die/ immigration/universal health care/death penalty/military issues) Certain religious denominations, or factions within particular denominations tend to be in one political camp or the other.

Many people accept "cultural diversity" but aren't comfortable being challenged about their political stance.

That might often be true, but it's definitely not always, and that's why it's difficult to make decisions based on superficial knowledge. While Orthodox Jews in general tend to be against gay rights and be anti-abortion, I'm very pro gay rights and I'm pro-choice (but still pretty much anti-abortion, but that's a personal belief, not a political one). And as I said before, I'm politically liberal, in fact very liberal. I support universal health care, I protested against the Iraq war, I campaigned for Kerry, etc. There are certainly plenty of other Orthodox Jews who are where I am politically, but the majority are on the opposite side of the spectrum

The point is, you can't assume based on religious belief or participation that a person has certain political beliefs. You have to evaluate each person individually with these issues, because there is a huge spectrum of opinion, and it's unfair to the individual to make assumptions.

 

[LizzyM]

The point is, you can't assume based on religious belief or participation that a person has certain political beliefs. You have to evaluate each person individually with these issues, because there is a huge spectrum of opinion, and it's unfair to the individual to make assumptions.

But you might expect to be asked questions during an interview that would get at your social/political ideology. Someone might presume based on your religious education that you strong beliefs on moral issues and you might expect that those beliefs would be a topic of conversation in your interview.

 

[samdwi]

When I was applying to med-schools, I did mentione my Hindu background, but I only wrote a couple sentences on it, I did not focus on it or devote entire paragraphs to it. I was asked about it at Georgetown, Albert Einstein, Univ. of South Florida and at Temple - but it wasn't what any of my interviewers cared about.

If religion does shape some aspect of your life, don't be afraid to mention it in a non-threatening, non-preaching, non-holier-than-though manner. I shadowed a physician who was Eastern Orthodox Christian, and he did not hesitate talking about religion with patients he was personally close with, but he NEVER touched the topic with other patients unless pateints brought it up. He did have an image of Christ in his office, and copy of the Bible, but thats about the only outward display I noticed.

You can mix your religion with medicine as long as it does not violate the basic "...do no harm.." tenet - and I believe that preaching to the sick/injured/vulnerable who didn't ask for it is a form of violence and violates the hippocratic oath on some level.

 

[tigress]

But you might expect to be asked questions during an interview that would get at your social/political ideology. Someone might presume based on your religious education that you strong beliefs on moral issues and you might expect that those beliefs would be a topic of conversation in your interview.

Yes of course, and I'm prepared for those questions. I just wanted to respond to the idea that religion is necessarily "a proxy for what we might call political ideology," as you called it. It may be, and it makes sense for adcoms to ask questions about it, but I'm just pointing out that it's not necessarily so.

 

[nicholonious]

I had to bring up the big "R". What was I thinking...

 

[nicholonious]

Yes of course, and I'm prepared for those questions. I just wanted to respond to the idea that religion is necessarily "a proxy for what we might call political ideology," as you called it. It may be, and it makes sense for adcoms to ask questions about it, but I'm just pointing out that it's not necessarily so.

Tigress, mind me asking, what is your religion/faith?

 

[Psycho Doctor]

The point is, you can't assume based on religious belief or participation that a person has certain political beliefs. You have to evaluate each person individually with these issues, because there is a huge spectrum of opinion, and it's unfair to the individual to make assumptions.

that's right and that's why mentioning religion in an acceptable manner should not be frowned upon, as long as it does not jeopardize your ability to give fair and appropriate medical care to all patients.

 

[tigress]

Tigress, mind me asking, what is your religion/faith?

I'm Jewish

 

[notdeadyet]

You can mix your religion with medicine as long as it does not violate the basic "...do no harm.." tenet - and I believe that preaching to the sick/injured/vulnerable who didn't ask for it is a form of violence and violates the hippocratic oath on some level.

Very well put. Excellent post.