Religious Affiliation of Med Schools

[fastboyslim]

Here's something off the Loma Linda website:

"Our overriding purpose is to foster the formation of Christian physicians, providing whole-person care to individuals, families, and communities"

Here is something off the St. Louis University website that they say they want to impart on their students:

"A mature and well-balanced professional behavior that derives from comfortable relationships with members of the human family and one’s Creator."

http://www.llu.edu/llu/medicine/mission.html
http://medschool.slu.edu/index.php?page=mission-and-values

It just seems some of these religiously affiliated schools would be really hard to fit into if you're not Catholic, or even Christian in general. Thoughts?

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[nick_carraway]

Well Loma Linda is especially unique among medical schools. They're essentially the only medical school that requires religious affiliation since they all but require a LOR from a pastor or equivalent. Their policy is understandably that someone who is less religious and less of a good fit can be educated at any other med school.

SLU and Georgetown and other schools are far less restrictive with their acceptances.

 

[DrJD]

During my time at Georgetown and during my interview day at SLU, I sincerely got the feeling that they truly don't care what religion you are when you apply. SLU went out of their way to make sure we knew that it was okay no matter what we believed. They talked about all the different faith clubs they had, which covered most known religions.

So, with the exception of Loma Linda, you really don't have to worry about the religious affiliation of the medical school. IMHO

 

[nick_carraway]

Personally, I think more med schools should have a giant Jesus statue a la Johns Hopkins even though I'm agnostic.

 

[SBK]

Personally, I think more med schools should have a giant Jesus statue a la Johns Hopkins even though I'm agnostic.

I specifically asked at SLU about their Jesuit ideals and whatnot, and my interviewer said it doesnt matter at all....just be a nice person and whatnot and you're fine.

 

[qmcat]

It just seems some of these religiously affiliated schools would be really hard to fit into if you're not Catholic, or even Christian in general. Thoughts?

I've gone to Jesuit-affiliated school since high school through college and now soon to be med school. The Jesuit schools (Creighton, SLU, Georgetown, Loyola Stritch) don't impose religion or religious concepts on their students. Instead, they foster the Jesuit philosophy, which emphasizes community service and treating the entire person (cura personalis).

Anyone from any religious (or non-religious) background can fit into a Jesuit academic environment if you like the philosophy of community service and helping people and stuff.

I don't know anything about the non-Jesuit schools though (LLU and any other religious schools), so good luck there.

 

[LiveUninhibited]

Utah doesn't care if you're Mormon? Not that I'm thinking of applying there, but just curious.

 

[NeuroChaos]

👍👍👍👍👍
Agreed. I am not even Jesuit. But going into a jesuit uni for UG that was one of my biggest fear. In my time there, I have only taken away +ive things from Jesuits.

I've gone to Jesuit-affiliated school since high school through college and now soon to be med school. The Jesuit schools (Creighton, SLU, Georgetown, Loyola Stritch) don't impose religion or religious concepts on their students. Instead, they foster the Jesuit philosophy, which emphasizes community service and treating the entire person (cura personalis).

Anyone from any religious (or non-religious) background can fit into a Jesuit academic environment if you like the philosophy of community service and helping people and stuff.

I don't know anything about the non-Jesuit schools though (LLU and any other religious schools), so good luck there.

 

[aebvd97]

Utah doesn't care if you're Mormon? Not that I'm thinking of applying there, but just curious.

Uhh? The University of Utah is a public institution, and is not affiliated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Perhaps you were thinking of BYU?

 

[greg1184]

👍👍👍👍👍
Agreed. I am not even Jesuit. But going into a jesuit uni for UG that was one of my biggest fear. In my time there, I have only taken away +ive things from Jesuits.

Yep.

If you know the history of the Jesuit order (and how they were excommunicated from the Catholic Church TWICE), you would know that they are the most down to earth religious order. They are more of an intellectual order that focuses on education. They do not impose their religion to people.

 

[ngkats]

👍👍👍👍👍
Agreed. I am not even Jesuit. But going into a jesuit uni for UG that was one of my biggest fear. In my time there, I have only taken away +ive things from Jesuits.

"Not even Jesuit?" Do you know what they are?

It's a order of Catholic priests whose mission is specifically rooted in academics and teaching. Good to that after four years at Jesuit university, you didn't pick up on that.

 

[ngkats]

Yep.

If you know the history of the Jesuit order (and how they were excommunicated from the Catholic Church TWICE), you would know that they are the most down to earth religious order. They are more of an intellectual order that focuses on education. They do not impose their religion to people.

I don't know if you could call the history of the Jesuits "down to earth." They did, and sometimes still do, buck against Church doctrine in ways that might be called "liberal." In fact, they tend to be somewhat radical, but do so in a way that seems more in line with a modern mindset. So if that's what you're referring to the, yes, I think you're right.

It seems more likely that the laid back atmosphere of the these schools exists because they, while adhering to certain specific (and vague) principles, are very focused on attracting top students and remaining relevant in academic medicine.

 

[swamprat]

religion |------------------far gap----------------| medicine

I found that ridiculous when I was going through the msar and saw religious affiliations with medical schools. It puts a bad taste in my mouth 😱

 

[phospho]

religion |------------------far gap----------------| medicine

I found that ridiculous when I was going through the msar and saw religious affiliations with medical schools. It puts a bad taste in my mouth 😱

To each his own dude... Don't go there if you don't like it. You have MANY other options. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, which is why I didn't go to one of them. However, I know many people who would thrive in institutions like that, and I am glad they are able to find their niche.

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind - Einstein. (yes, i know, cliche😀)

 

[ngkats]

religion |------------------far gap----------------| medicine

I found that ridiculous when I was going through the msar and saw religious affiliations with medical schools. It puts a bad taste in my mouth 😱

You're going to have to be not only more specific but--imagine this--more articulate if you want statements like this to make sense and be credible.


And honestly, there are countless hospitals across the country with religious affiliations. And Catholicism is one of the largest players in health care in the US. I really hope you were kidding when you said reading the MSAR was the first time you were aware of religiously affiliated med schools and hospitals.

 

[greg1184]

I don't know if you could call the history of the Jesuits "down to earth." They did, and sometimes still do, buck against Church doctrine in ways that might be called "liberal." In fact, they tend to be somewhat radical, but do so in a way that seems more in line with a modern mindset. So if that's what you're referring to the, yes, I think you're right.

It seems more likely that the laid back atmosphere of the these schools exists because they, while adhering to certain specific (and vague) principles, are very focused on attracting top students and remaining relevant in academic medicine.

Yeah that is exactly what I meant.

I also know that the Priests that I knew when I was going to a jesuit high school were very down to earth and approachable individuals. In fact a group of us altar servers had an end-of-year party at this laser tag place, and you should see one of the priests play laser tag; he was deadly. 😀 I have tons of respect for this order as a whole along with the Franciscans.

 

[newbie2013]

religion |------------------far gap----------------| medicine

I found that ridiculous when I was going through the msar and saw religious affiliations with medical schools. It puts a bad taste in my mouth 😱

I couldn't disagree more. What about your future patients? Do you think they'll be able to separate their religious beliefs from personal, medical decisions that easily? Maybe the study of biochemistry has nothing to do with religion, but medical practice and religion/spirituality are closely intertwined. No matter who your "imaginary friend" is (if you have one), having a background dealing with people from different religions and their varying philosophies can certainly make you a more caring physician since you'll be better able to understand where your patients are coming from. One classic ethical example - Jehovah's witnesses and blood transfusions.

While I agree everything should be done in your power to ensure human life is preserved and medical decisions should be made logically, even if that means circumventing religious beliefs at the expense of patients/family members being p*ssed off, certain patients may go against your medical advice due to religions reasons when you have no control (i.e. CocaCola-ism, where your diabetic patient is required by religious law to consume 4 liters of Coke daily). Obviously joking, but embracing all religions and fully understanding their beliefs will give you just another tool to help guide patients to health in their own lives in spite of what doctrine dictates.

 

[Brent8927]

Yeah that is exactly what I meant.

I also know that the Priests that I knew when I was going to a jesuit high school were very down to earth and approachable individuals. In fact a group of us altar servers had an end-of-year party at this laser tag place, and you should see one of the priests play laser tag; he was deadly. 😀 I have tons of respect for this order as a whole along with the Franciscans.

I went on a religious retreat in high school that was held by a group of Franciscan friars from the Bronx. They used to play basketball with another group of friars--they all wore their robes and everything, and apparently were both quite good, and very entertaining.

When they came out to CA for our retreat, they flew. This was just after Sept. 11, and their rosaries (Franciscans have HUGE rosaries--they usually hang from their belt/cord and reach almost to their feet) were confiscated by airport security, since they could be used as a weapon. The friars thought it was pretty funny, and so did we--these are guys who dedicate their lives to serving the poor!

I always wondered if Jackie Chan has difficulty getting on an airplane, considering his hands and feet are much more dangerous than a boxcutter knife...

Anyway, to get back on topic, the Jesuits are wonderful, and have a wonderful philosophy. Personally I really wanted to go to, and will be going to, a Jesuit medical school, since they tend to stress ethics and treating the whole person more strongly than other schools. Of the Jesuit schools, I've only visited Loyola, but compared to UCLA and UCSF, they were much more focused on educating compassionate and caring physicians.

You find a lot of "good people" (students, physicians, staff) at the Jesuit schools--ones who are motivated by much more than fame and research dollars; they really care about people and that's what made the world of difference to me, and is why Loyola was my dream school. I wanted to go to a school that won't just help me be a good physician, but also one that would help me become an even better person.

 

[Brent8927]

I couldn't disagree more. What about your future patients? Do you think they'll be able to separate their religious beliefs from personal, medical decisions that easily? Maybe the study of biochemistry has nothing to do with religion, but medical practice and religion/spirituality are closely intertwined.

👍👍 The majority of our patients will be religious and believe in God, Allah, Jehova, Vishnu, etc. Some will be very strong believers, and others not as strong--but most patients will still be religious. They will feel much more comfortable with a physician who respects and understands their beliefs. We don't have to believe in the same thing as them (though patients may probably prefer this if possible) but no patient is going to want to come back to see a doctor who trivializes their most cherished beliefs.

 

[parafilm]

👍👍 The majority of our patients will be religious and believe in God, Allah, Jehova, Vishnu, etc. Some will be very strong believers, and others not as strong--but most patients will still be religious. They will feel much more comfortable with a physician who respects and understands their beliefs. We don't have to believe in the same thing as them (though patients may probably prefer this if possible) but no patient is going to want to come back to see a doctor who trivializes their most cherished beliefs.

Just because a person isn't religious, and chooses to be educated in a school that isn't religiously affiliated, does NOT mean they will "trivialize" a patients beliefs. I understand that people are religious. I understand that religion will play a major role in the way people want to be treated as patients, and I like to think I will be understanding and open-minded to that.

Similarly, you too will have patients who do not share your beliefs. It is not exclusive to the nonreligious. Everyone at some point will be faced with patients--with people in general--who hold a different belief and mindset, including you.

 

[Brent8927]

Just because a person isn't religious, and chooses to be educated in a school that isn't religiously affiliated, does NOT mean they will "trivialize" a patients beliefs. I understand that people are religious. I understand that religion will play a major role in the way people want to be treated as patients, and I like to think I will be understanding and open-minded to that.

Similarly, you too will have patients who do not share your beliefs. It is not exclusive to the nonreligious. Everyone at some point will be faced with patients--with people in general--who hold a different belief and mindset, including you.

I think you misinterpreted what I wrote--I never suggested that people who go to a school that isn't religiously affiliated will trivialize a patient's belief. I was referring to doxycycline's post (quoted by newbie--whom I was agreeing with) that said there is a big gap between religion and medicine, and that religious medical schools left a bad taste in his/her mouth. In my mind, he/she was trivializing people's religious beliefs by suggesting they have no place in the field of medicine.

Ultimately, we all want to feel understood and respected, regardless of our beliefs. I am very glad to see you agree with this as well 🙂. I agree that I will definitely have patients who will hold a different mindset than me, and I plan to welcome them as much as anyone else--in my eyes what matters is that we are good people and respect others.

 

[RoyBasch]

religion |------------------far gap----------------| medicine

I found that ridiculous when I was going through the msar and saw religious affiliations with medical schools. It puts a bad taste in my mouth 😱

Dude, do you realize how many hospitals have a religious affiliation? Every hospital I have ever been in, even the ones with no official religious denomination, have a chaplain's office or provide consultation from religious counselors for patients.


-Roy

 

[LiveUninhibited]

Uhh? The University of Utah is a public institution, and is not affiliated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Perhaps you were thinking of BYU?

BYU has a medical school?😕

It's just that as a public institution Utah would want people who would be likely to stay in Utah and serve the predominantly Mormon population. Why a non-Mormon would want to move to Utah I can scarcely imagine. But I suppose as a public institution they also can't discriminate on the basis of religious orientation.

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind - Einstein. (yes, i know, cliche😀)

More like religion and science are like oil and water, though some people are good at selective rationality and compartmentalization.